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I just spent a whole week in a different city team building. AMA
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Aug 17, 2016 22:07
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CLAM DOWN posted:Corner Gas and Trailer Park Boys are actually documentaries on various Canadian rural lifestyles.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:09
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jaegerx posted:I just spent a whole week in a different city team building. AMA How do you feel about your team?
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Aug 17, 2016 22:09
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psydude posted:Canadian North Dakota. Wait, I thought that was Manitoba... 
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Aug 17, 2016 22:17
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SeaborneClink posted:None of these words are "Letterkenny" Letterkenny isn't a documentary, it's home video ripped straight from my childhood.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:19
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CLAM DOWN posted:Corner Gas and Trailer Park Boys are actually documentaries on various Canadian rural lifestyles. Alaska Bush People is an accurate presentation of life in my town.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:28
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CLAM DOWN posted:Can't you just....say no? Like, "sorry, I have personal events scheduled outside work hours"? Yes, that's how most of us deal with it. Or with just a plain "no". Sometimes I laugh when I say it.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:31
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anthonypants posted:Hmm, I don't feel like you're a good fit for the thread. I'm going to have to ask you to leave. Hooboy, sounds like someone's having a case of the Mondays! Listen Anthony, we're going to have your thread team do a team building event to try and bring everyone together. Sound good? We'll be doing a harbor cruise - please note there is no alcohol allowed as this will be during work hours. Free snacks* will be provided, so this should be fun for everyone!** *snacks include pretzels and healthy options. Hot food is available for an additional fee. **Attendance is mandatory in order to promote a healthier team environment! Thank you for being a valued team member of Working In IT!
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Aug 17, 2016 23:02
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jaegerx posted:I just spent a whole week in a different city team building. AMA Tell us you hit your per diem everyday.
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Aug 17, 2016 23:32
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I love being a good corporate boy and having a really positive demeanor about everything. I hope I work for my company for 30 years and will be actively rejecting raises in order to not get edged out after too long.
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Aug 17, 2016 23:35
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Thanks Ants posted:The vast majority of people in every job everywhere are incompetent, so don't feel like if you can actually do the tasks you are set that it means you're being set up for a huge fall. I mean don't get complacent either, but the only way you pick up new stuff is by doing what you're not totally comfortable with. If you don't then you end up like a bloke on our helpdesk who is in his late 30s and has been answering phones to users for 16 years. You know how I was saying I was hired as a Senior Linux Systems Admin? Well, I was, but my responsibilities aren't really Linux - my teaching experience is considered a bonus because they need a huge help when it comes to documentation. As in, they have none that is understandable by people with PhDs. So my first task will be to go through the hundreds of redundant documents on multiple SharePoint sites (kill me now) and shared folders and prune them down to a reasonable number, then re-write them into something the poindexters can use and understand, and then post them into the wiki they've stood up. Then I've been asked to become an expert on Fortigate firewalls. Fortunately the other admin managed to figure that crap out, so I might be clear on that end. I still don't have computer access. I'm still considered to be way ahead of the curve compared to the last guy, who they walked out after two months because he was a) having difficulty separating home life from work life, and b) didn't have computer access after two months because he didn't bother to do any of the in-processing steps necessary to get access. I'm just waiting on my AD account to be re-activated, but of course Directory Services at Langley managed to botch that up, much to the amusement of my co-worker (who actually was an AD admin at my old location before we were re-organized. Hell, another guy in our cube farm is a co-worker from the Exchange team at my old place who left a couple months ago for greener pastures. It was like old home week when I first walked in the door. So, don't worry about feeling like you're in over your head. Trust me, there are a lot worse people out there. So long as you try your best and ask for help when needed you'll do fine.
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Aug 17, 2016 23:54
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Docjowles posted:fixed I literally ask companies that I interview with "So, what does ~DevOps~ mean in YOUR organization?" So far this summer I've gotten 5 different answers from 5 different places. Most "DevOps" roles I see are "Sysadmin who in theory hangs out with the developers instead of hissing at them from across the room and can hack out enough code for his automation projects that it justifies him having his own git repo(s)". I do see some more specified job titles cropping up though, like "Tools Engineer", but we do have a brand new fancy ~trendy~ SITE RELIABILITY ENGINEER buzzword that seems to be catching on, to look forward to.
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Aug 17, 2016 23:55
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OWLS! posted:I do see some more specified job titles cropping up though, like "Tools Engineer", but we do have a brand new fancy ~trendy~ SITE RELIABILITY ENGINEER buzzword that seems to be catching on, to look forward to. SENIOR Cloud Engineer Oh and I saw another good one recently... CloudOps Engineer
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Aug 17, 2016 23:59
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air- posted:SENIOR Cloud Engineer Senior Cyber CloudOps Security Architect e: I like all of the emphasis on "CLOUD SECURITY EXPERIENCE!!" recently. Because one set of public-facing virtual severs is clearly drastically different from another set of public-facing virtual servers when they're suddenly deployed in Amazon's datacenter. Although there's considerable research suggesting that AWS and EC2 are highly vulnerable to APTs; however, I doubt that the HR person writing the job requirements have pored over those IEEE papers. psydude fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 01:00
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It's good to have employees who work well together and are personable and whatever, but a lot of these bullshit team-building exercises seem deliberately designed to weed out introverts or at the very least make them feel extremely uncomfortable. But hey, open-plan offices are really cheap, so let's have that drive our entire company culture and the management methodologies around it.
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Aug 18, 2016 02:41
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How big are your teams where you can't have 1 person handle talking to a few people at once? I'm not a social butterfly but I can handle a team dinner with 10 other people and find a common ground with a few of them to talk about something that isn't work. Goony goons gotta goon or something. Ps it helps if you wash and wear clean clothes. Then people will talk to you.
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Aug 18, 2016 02:55
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jaegerx posted:How big are your teams where you can't have 1 person handle talking to a few people at once? I'm not a social butterfly but I can handle a team dinner with 10 other people and find a common ground with a few of them to talk about something that isn't work. Goony goons gotta goon or something. Most "team building" exercises aren't about "teams working together", they are about making someone in HR feel good. Not only do they tend to be mandatory, they encourage you to talk to people who have no bearing on your work life - not because they aren't important, but because they simply do things that you don't. Most team builders I've been to have people get randomly assigned to a group of people who then have to solve/think like a group. You spend time meeting and greeting people upon which you have no familiar ground. Back in my peon-level sysadmin days, I was once paired with an accountant, a secretary, and a construction crew member. We basically sat in silence because after the introductions, no one could think of anything to relate to. The few things that came up were like "What's the weather been like? Crazy, right?" And when we got to the problem solving, being with people without even similar problem solving skills did nothing to endear any of us to one another because we each had to explain what we wanted to do, why we wanted to do it that way, and then give lectures on background information that was pertinent to why we thought that way. I don't think I ever interacted with those people at that company ever again. Actual "this is your team and we are building a culture, here" stuff happens at the team level. Your direct boss goes "let's have a day at the park/bar/movies/whore house" or "the company is poor/I'm not allowed to spend money, let's have a pot luck" and those are super effective. You talk to people who are directly or peripherally involved in your area while you stand around and stuff food in your mouth if anything gets awkward so that the silence doesn't seem to be a result of boredom or cluelessness. As a bonus, if you have a multicultural spread, you can even discover new and interesting foods. Edit: The ones I try to do are not just team building, but education and experience building. I grab people for a day about once a quarter and work out solutions to problems within the company that effect the attendees. You spend a day, go from problem to solution to executive presentation and then that is taken up the hill for a decision. This introduces people to new ways of thinking about problems, helps spread knowledge among a group of peers, and, when the solution is grand enough, is even useful to introduce them to concepts from other disciplines. The last one I did was a cross-team analysis with netsec and the help desk. The HDs were complaining about security policies that made no sense, so we sat down and built a new security template from the ground up. Lo and behold, the HDs were enthusiastic about a security model that was about 85% identical to what was already in place. After the day was up, two of the help desk jockeys approached me to see about cross training into network security because they learned a lot that they hadn't thought of before. Not only did it help the company by quelling dissent from lack of understanding, we came away with a better security model and helped people who wanted to better themselves. I call that a big win all around. This is the sort of thing that HR desperately wants, but can never achieve since they want to force it upon people and have people pick up, say, accounting via osmosis. By not letting it grow organically - perhaps by encouraging and even training local team bosses to do this sort of thing - they kill every gain they wish to achieve. Arsten fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 03:07
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See now I get that accounts hr construction worker but I work at companies that are 70% technical so it's easier for me I guess. Stop working at lovely msps and maybe your IT career will have less to bitch about.
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Aug 18, 2016 03:16
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It never hurts to make friends with secretaries and admin assistants. They may not be at the top of the org chart, but if you mapped relationships within a company, they're right at the center.
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Aug 18, 2016 03:18
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:It never hurts to make friends with secretaries and admin assistants. They may not be at the top of the org chart, but if you mapped relationships within a company, they're right at the center. It really depends on the admin. Just a random admin? Probably not useful. If you have an admin you deal with commonly, it's good practice to get into a professional relationship with them - just like anyone else you commonly interact with. jaegerx posted:See now I get that accounts hr construction worker but I work at companies that are 70% technical so it's easier for me I guess. Yeah, you say that until you get paired with an AS/400 RPG/LE programmer that lost his mind in the 1980s. 
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Aug 18, 2016 03:22
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Is it really that hard to see why it might be useful to interact with your users? IT people spend an inordinate amount of time complaining about their users and how stupid they are because they don't understand technology. Humanizing these people through social exposure isn't a bad thing. You don't need to LEARN accounting, but spending a little time with Joyce from accounting and learning what she does, and what she has to put up with, may make you less prone to get aggravated when she has a seemingly trivial problem and requires your help. It's funny because on the one hand you get people complaining about "soulless corporate environments" but then also complaining that they have to interact with their coworkers sometimes as if the most soulful work environment would be one where you put your head down and speak to no one for anything other than work specific reasons.
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Aug 18, 2016 03:26
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While working at a casino doing IT, I really learned a lot from spending one evening behind the counter at the cashier cage. Not so much about their jobs, but I learned a lot about the customers, and the poo poo that the cashiers put up with, with a smile.
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Aug 18, 2016 03:30
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NippleFloss posted:Is it really that hard to see why it might be useful to interact with your users? IT people spend an inordinate amount of time complaining about their users and how stupid they are because they don't understand technology. Humanizing these people through social exposure isn't a bad thing. You don't need to LEARN accounting, but spending a little time with Joyce from accounting and learning what she does, and what she has to put up with, may make you less prone to get aggravated when she has a seemingly trivial problem and requires your help. This thread seems to have a really difficult time with normal social interaction so yeah basically this.
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Aug 18, 2016 03:39
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3/4ths of my coworkers are production employees that barely speak english.
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Aug 18, 2016 03:45
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CLAM DOWN posted:Corner Gas and Trailer Park Boys are actually documentaries on various Canadian rural lifestyles. Where does Strange Brew fit in?
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Aug 18, 2016 04:17
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CLAM DOWN posted:This thread seems to have a really difficult time with normal social interaction so yeah basically this. With the supposedly rampant drinking problems in our industry I don't understand why we aren't all just best mates. I mean, we had to take the kegs out of our HQ2 building, 2nd floor because the support people were having a party at 2pm or so (it was an awesome work party) randomly one day. When I slipped out a side stairwell it transported me back to high school and running from the cops after a party got busted up. In conclusion, drinking and socializing more is a good thing.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:29
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As a manager, I am extremely frugal. I try to save money wherever I can. In my opinion, a team building exercise as described above is a waste of the company's money. It is very unlikely to add any value and will simply cost time. I see a lot more value in an optional after hours activity. 1) the employees that come will want to be there and will participate 2) see 1 regardless of whether it is weird to you that some people would not want to participate, the fact remains that there are people with valuable skills who won't want to. These people likely don't want to participate because social situations make them feel uncomfortable, and forcing them to do so is borderline discriminatory. Virigoth posted:With the supposedly rampant drinking problems in our industry I don't understand why we aren't all just best mates. I mean, we had to take the kegs out of our HQ2 building, 2nd floor because the support people were having a party at 2pm or so (it was an awesome work party) randomly one day. When I slipped out a side stairwell it transported me back to high school and running from the cops after a party got busted up. In conclusion, drinking and socializing more is a good thing.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:34
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I like socializing with colleagues over a pint, I do not like HR imposed team building activities. Am I worse than Hitler?
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Aug 18, 2016 04:38
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adorai posted:I see a lot more value in an optional after hours activity. Doing things entirely after hours is in some ways tantamount saying "screw you people with families", imo. There is a pretty obvious divide in my team between the people who go home to see their kids or whatever and those who go out to things after work instead.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:40
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adorai posted:regardless of whether it is weird to you that some people would not want to participate, the fact remains that there are people with valuable skills who won't want to. These people likely don't want to participate because social situations make them feel uncomfortable, and forcing them to do so is borderline discriminatory.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:47
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I enjoy company outings and team building stuff - I'll go to anything if there's free poo poo. I've seen this "gently caress gatherings" attitude with most of my coworkers the past two jobs and we haven't even had end users to directly support or have to comingle with, the rabbit hole must be deeper.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:48
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adorai posted:regardless of whether it is weird to you that some people would not want to participate, the fact remains that there are people with valuable skills who won't want to. These people likely don't want to participate because social situations make them feel uncomfortable, and forcing them to do so is borderline discriminatory.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:52
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Maybe stop thinking of them as users if you're in some lovely help desk because they're the one making your company money so you get paid.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:53
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All team builders are great, unless they cause you literal physical pain. No, emotional pain doesn't count, gently caress you.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:59
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Vulture Culture posted:"Borderline discriminatory" is an interesting point too. At my last job, I had a severely hearing-impaired employee with cochlear implants. He could hear you one-on-one with some straining and difficulty (he mostly read lips, which he did extremely well), but situations like crowded restaurants with lots of voices and sounds at once caused him physical pain. edit: I don't forbid it, but I encourage my team to avoid the term "end user" and instead use the term "customer". Similarly, in my personal life, I dislike the use of word "consumer" to describe what used to be called "citizen" or "fellow man". It's all about avoiding dehumanizing terms, and I think if everyone in the world did so, that alone would have a positive effect on civilization. I encourage all of you to consider avoiding the term "end user" when possible, and instead use a less dehumanizing phrase like "customer". I promise it will improve your career if you do it in the long term. adorai fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 05:04
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Vulture Culture posted:"Borderline discriminatory" is an interesting point too. At my last job, I had a severely hearing-impaired employee with cochlear implants. He could hear you one-on-one with some straining and difficulty (he mostly read lips, which he did extremely well), but situations like crowded restaurants with lots of voices and sounds at once caused him physical pain. For legitimate medical or social anxiety issues accommodations can easily be made just like they are for other facets of the job as required under the ADA, but under most circumstances asking an employee to spend a couple of hours during his normal work schedule interacting with his coworkers isn't discriminatory.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:25
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Think of how much motivation you will have to get out of your locked room if you're trapped in there with unbearable people. It's secretly a pilot project for implementing similar measures in the office. Place people who don't want to be beside each other beside each other to increase productivity.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:33
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On the subject of building well functioning teams, this article and the research referenced suggests that high social sensitivity can be important for team dynamics, which raises questions about how one might successfully integrate people who are on the spectrum and have problems understanding social cues.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:10
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adorai posted:Even without a diagnosed medical condition, the fact remains that you hire these people to perform a job with requirements of x, y, and z. Z is probably to work in a team environment with a professional attitude etc.., but that doesn't mean build a pyramid out of multi colored balloons at the company picnic. If they can do x and y while being polite enough to not violate z, forcing them into a situation that is awkward for them is totally unnecessary. Would you lose a lawsuit over it? Probably not, but it doesn't make you not a jerk for doing it. How do you feel about the term "resource"?
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Aug 18, 2016 06:50
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RFC2324 posted:Where does Strange Brew fit in? if I could, I would hug you, although not if you look like your avatar... adorai posted:These people likely don't want to participate because social situations make them feel uncomfortable, and forcing them to do so is borderline discriminatory. At an age over 23 (I assumed most people are over that age that are talking in this thread) do people really have so much of a hard time socializing with people that are different than them? Sounds like everyone is a lot of fun at parties 
MF_James fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 07:21
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