Why do Canadians hate natives so much

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Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

a garbanzo bean posted:

lmao at this map of canadian highways. there's an entire province (i can only assume filled with natives)that isn't even grazed against

If you look at a population density map of Canada, all the people actually live in southern Ontario, along the St Lawrence, southwest BC, the maritimes, with some big cities scattered across the lower half of the prairies. All along the American border basically. As you go north the population density drops exponentially.

That giant territory that none of the major highways touch? Total population is around 30,000. It's three times the size of Texas.

All three of the northern territories have a combined population just a little over 100K.

# ? Jun 16, 2016 16:15

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# ? May 29, 2024 23:00

sock it to me!: Feb 7, 2010

I live in the most populous city in Montana. We have lots of reservations here, and they are nearly all miserable impoverished ghettos. All of the most heinous crimes in recent memory have been native on native.

My wife runs a battered women's shelter, and their population is never less than 75% native. These women come in with their kids, enjoy 60 days of not being beaten or raped by their boyfriends/dads, and then go right back to them once their time is up. Rarely will they use this time to seek employment or lodging outside of the shelter, and few transition to life away from their abusers. It's very frustrating for my wife, who knows what's coming and is powerless to control it due to budgets, laws, etc.

Recently, a woman in a small res town tried to leave her chronicly abusive boyfriend. Later that day, she was walking down the street. She was abducted by a car full of people, bound, and burned alive. She did not die. Because of how criminal justice on the res works, these people won't be found or prosecuted. The BIA doesn't have the interest to pursue the case, and no one died so the feds won't get involved. (They rarely do, even on murders.) I could tell you 6 more stories like this from just this year.

The reservations here are plagued with the same corruption issues mentioned above. Every few years the Crow will chase out some corrupt leaders for imbezzling or misappropriating, appoint new guys, and repeat the whole thing two years later.

The reservation system is a mess, and by and large is not producing healthy, capable people who can function in society. It's a hard situation, because I don't think there is a right answer, and there definitely isn't an easy one. When you are born into a ruined family, undereducated, raised by a rotating cast of peripheral family, and are more likely to be molested than not, it's hard to not grow up into a drunk, jaded mess. I guess my point is gently caress Canada and America and Indians and the human race in general.

Edit: 34% of Native American women are victims of sexual assault, and 20% report at least one instance of partner/marital rape.

sock it to me! fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jun 16, 2016

# ? Jun 16, 2016 19:02

Roylicious: Feb 21, 2012; Braver than the cops
ain't afraid of no chaps
If they steppin up on me
I just start bustin some caps

Giant Meteor 2016

# ? Jun 16, 2016 19:11

Booblord Zagats: Oct 30, 2011; Pork Pro

Entropic posted:

If you look at a population density map of Canada, all the people actually live in southern Ontario, along the St Lawrence, southwest BC, the maritimes, with some big cities scattered across the lower half of the prairies. All along the American border basically. As you go north the population density drops exponentially.

That giant territory that none of the major highways touch? Total population is around 30,000. It's three times the size of Texas.

All three of the northern territories have a combined population just a little over 100K.

I thought Santa had more elves than 30K

# ? Jun 16, 2016 19:13

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

Capoeira Capybara posted:

I live in the most populous city in Montana. We have lots of reservations here, and they are nearly all miserable impoverished ghettos. All of the most heinous crimes in recent memory have been native on native.

My wife runs a battered women's shelter, and their population is never less than 75% native. These women come in with their kids, enjoy 60 days of not being beaten or raped by their boyfriends/dads, and then go right back to them once their time is up. Rarely will they use this time to seek employment or lodging outside of the shelter, and few transition to life away from their abusers. It's very frustrating for my wife, who knows what's coming and is powerless to control it due to budgets, laws, etc.

Recently, a woman in a small res town tried to leave her chronicly abusive boyfriend. Later that day, she was walking down the street. She was abducted by a car full of people, bound, and burned alive. She did not die. Because of how criminal justice on the res works, these people won't be found or prosecuted. The BIA doesn't have the interest to pursue the case, and no one died so the feds won't get involved. (They rarely do, even on murders.) I could tell you 6 more stories like this from just this year.

The reservations here are plagued with the same corruption issues mentioned above. Every few years the Crow will chase out some corrupt leaders for imbezzling or misappropriating, appoint new guys, and repeat the whole thing two years later.

The reservation system is a mess, and by and large is not producing healthy, capable people who can function in society. It's a hard situation, because I don't think there is a right answer, and there definitely isn't an easy one. When you are born into a ruined family, undereducated, raised by a rotating cast of peripheral family, and are more likely to be molested than not, it's hard to not grow up into a drunk, jaded mess. I guess my point is gently caress Canada and America and Indians and the human race in general.

Edit: 34% of Native American women are victims of sexual assault, and 20% report at least one instance of partner/marital rape.

sounds like Chechnya didn't know Canada had its own Chechnya in TYOOL 2016

# ? Jun 16, 2016 23:41

Nigmaetcetera: Nov 17, 2004; borkborkborkmorkmorkmork-gabbalooins

If anybody hasn't figured it out yet, it's cause they're racist.

# ? Jun 16, 2016 23:42

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

Canada should be more like Russia IMO we let a goat shepherd warlord from a prominent minority participate in the highest functions of our government such as political assassinations

# ? Jun 16, 2016 23:44

reallivedinosaur: Jun 13, 2012; Ogdober subrise! XDDD

treiz01 posted:

Sorry pal, I live in Canada! I don't have a gun, or even know anyone who has one as far as I know.

Got plenty of fuckin' Natives tho. Jesus, and I worked for some once. The daughter had distractingly huge tits and never wore a bra, was knocked up at 18. The mother and her would scream at each other all day. Their ranch looked like no one had done an honest days work on it for years. There was a truck that broke down about 200 feet from the house and that's where it was a year later when I started, plus 20+ vehicles in various states of falling to rust.

They would tell me and my coworker to do something, and then half way through they'd change their mind, making the work we just did a complete waste of time. I didn't complain because it was a cash job, but then they ended up owing me money. The next time they paid up in full, I was loving out of there.

You don't live anywhere near a reserve and you don't know any natives. You live downtown Toronto or Vancouver.

Canada is full of guns - nearly everyone in any rural area, where all the reserves are, owns at least one rifle and probably a shotgun.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 00:03

reallivedinosaur: Jun 13, 2012; Ogdober subrise! XDDD

My cousin just got married on the res and my and my bro stayed to "tend the bar" at the reception and have fun blowing off wheelbarrows full of illicit fireworks.

An hour in we had to start pretending there was no hard liquor left, only coors light. There was lots of fighting and bleeding and the groom told the bride to go gently caress herself and someone tried to steal a pickup truck with a dude passed out in the back of it.

Was a pretty low key affair all-in-all

# ? Jun 17, 2016 00:10

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Lichy posted:

sounds like Chechnya didn't know Canada had its own Chechnya in TYOOL 2016

noted canadian province of montana

# ? Jun 17, 2016 00:37

Mr.Acula: May 10, 2009; Billions and billions of fat clouds

I'm a Canadian and I'm not mean to natives enjoy your evening goons

# ? Jun 17, 2016 00:54

Solice Kirsk: Jun 1, 2004; .

reallivedinosaur posted:

My cousin just got married on the res and my and my bro stayed to "tend the bar" at the reception and have fun blowing off wheelbarrows full of illicit fireworks.

An hour in we had to start pretending there was no hard liquor left, only coors light. There was lots of fighting and bleeding and the groom told the bride to go gently caress herself and someone tried to steal a pickup truck with a dude passed out in the back of it.

Was a pretty low key affair all-in-all

Was your cousin the bride or the groom?

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:42

treiz01: Jan 2, 2008; There is little that makes me happier than taking drugs. Perhaps administering them, designing and carrying out experiments that bend the plane of what we consider reality.

reallivedinosaur posted:

You don't live anywhere near a reserve and you don't know any natives. You live downtown Toronto or Vancouver.

Canada is full of guns - nearly everyone in any rural area, where all the reserves are, owns at least one rifle and probably a shotgun.

Close, I was born in Vancouver. I've lived all over the interior though, and the place I was talking about is Kamloops. Specifically, the North Shore area.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 04:34

ElGroucho: Nov 1, 2005; We already - What about sticking our middle fingers up... That was insane; Fun Shoe

treiz01 posted:

Close, I was born in Vancouver. I've lived all over the interior though, and the place I was talking about is Kamloops. Specifically, the North Shore area.

Haha, you guys can't just make up places like this is some Dragonlance fanfic, Kamloops, come on guys, get real

# ? Jun 17, 2016 11:15

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Lichy posted:

sounds like Chechnya didn't know Canada had its own Chechnya in TYOOL 2016

First Nations bits of Canada are pretty much as sad as Chechnya yeah. IIRC a majority of them have extremely temperamental access to clean water and sanitation and a quarter have basically none. You don't see many local governors blown up at the ice hockey, though.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 11:25

Nascardad: Oct 22, 2009; "Racing is in my blood, I can't quite get out of it yet"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlrOaJFf6tg

# ? Jun 17, 2016 16:41

Dreddout: Oct 1, 2015; You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

ElGroucho posted:

Haha, you guys can't just make up places like this is some Dragonlance fanfic, Kamloops, come on guys, get real

Yeah, "Yellow knife", "Resolute", and "Great Slave Lake". C'mon Canada, quit pretending to be Skyrim!

# ? Jun 17, 2016 16:51

treiz01: Jan 2, 2008; There is little that makes me happier than taking drugs. Perhaps administering them, designing and carrying out experiments that bend the plane of what we consider reality.

ElGroucho posted:

Haha, you guys can't just make up places like this is some Dragonlance fanfic, Kamloops, come on guys, get real

Or as the Natives would say, "Tk'emlups"

# ? Jun 17, 2016 16:54

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

Dreddout posted:

Yeah, "Yellow knife", "Resolute", and "Great Slave Lake". C'mon Canada, quit pretending to be Skyrim!

Meanwhile Newfoundland is full of towns like Cowhead, Killbride, and Dildo.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 16:55

Sweaty IT Nerd: Jul 13, 2007

ElGroucho posted:

Haha, you guys can't just make up places like this is some Dragonlance fanfic, Kamloops, come on guys, get real

Medicine Hat is a perfectly cromulent name for a town.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 16:55

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Roylicious posted:

I'm not super familiar with Canada in particular but in the USA there's tons of corruption and fuckery happening still. Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mesa_Peabody_Coal_controversy

Wiki doesn't go into too much detail but basically the tribe hired a dude to negotiate this contract with Peabody energy, the dude neglected to mention he had a conflict of interest because Peabody was giving him $$$, the contract was laughably skewed in favor of Peabody energy, who then proceeded to destroy the environment to the point that there's no usable ground water there anymore and they have to drive dozens of miles to the nearest clean well and the tribe didn't even get much money out of the deal.

Oh and also the mine itself is basically the only employment opportunity in the area and it gives people hella black lung and other diseases which no one in charge cares about but which are basically destroying able young men.

So you know, stop doing poo poo like that.

I dunno obviously it's a complex problem I was mostly just going lol at people who go 'well they're a bunch of alcoholics gently caress 'em!' like it is just some genetic flaw that causes it and that's that we've done all we can for them.

Maybe tax incentives for business investment in those communities would be helpful, there's just 0 real opportunity for most of them which ofc then leads to high unemployment rates, high drug use and alcoholism, etc.

Thank I'm trying

ah so they hired an educated outsider to help them and he screwed them over? what could be the solution to this!

maybe if we forced some of these native people to go to school they wouldn't need to hire outsiders and they can negotiate contracts on their own? but thats crazy, we dont need to teach them modern things, they can just use their traditional culture to figure out complex modern land rights contracts :rolleyes:

# ? Jun 17, 2016 17:25

Snatch Duster: Feb 20, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Roylicious posted:

it's just their culture dontcha know

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIpluPuq68I&t=23s

# ? Jun 17, 2016 17:30

Dreddout: Oct 1, 2015; You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

Entropic posted:

Meanwhile Newfoundland is full of towns like Cowhead, Killbride, and Dildo.

From what I know, Newfoundland sounds disturbingly similar to Finland.

Are we sure they aren't the same place? :tinfoil:

# ? Jun 17, 2016 17:47

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

Dreddout posted:

From what I know, Newfoundland sounds disturbingly similar to Finland.

Are we sure they aren't the same place?

Newfoundland is sort of like Finland only friendlier, fatter, they deep-fry everything, drink lite beer instead of vodka, and listen to Stan Rogers instead of black metal.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 17:57

reallivedinosaur: Jun 13, 2012; Ogdober subrise! XDDD

Solice Kirsk posted:

Was your cousin the bride or the groom?

The bride. It was a fun wedding tbh, the res can be a fun place and there's good people there.

They are allergic to alcohol and I don't know how that can be dealt with? It destroys them. Just saying "hey dude don't drink your body processes alcohol differently" doesn't work.

The dudes who smoke weed are chill as gently caress though and grow really good weed.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 18:11

mom and dad fight a lot: Sep 21, 2006; If you count them all, this sentence has exactly seventy-two characters.

The Sphinxster posted:

Medicine Hat is a perfectly cromulent name for a town.

I didn't realize how badass some of the native town names are until now.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 18:18

reallivedinosaur: Jun 13, 2012; Ogdober subrise! XDDD

Airborne Viking posted:

I didn't realize how badass some of the native town names are until now.

native names for things are usually pretty cool

sasquatch is way better than "big foot"

# ? Jun 17, 2016 18:20

Sweaty IT Nerd: Jul 13, 2007

Airborne Viking posted:

I didn't realize how badass some of the native town names are until now.

I like Moosejaw

# ? Jun 17, 2016 18:23

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

fun fact: there's a bunch of places in northern alberta and the NWT with "slave" in the name, like "lesser slave lake" and "slave river". this derives from a derogatory name that the Cree people used for the Dene people.

p. mean imo

# ? Jun 17, 2016 18:33

Killed a Girl in 96: Jun 15, 2001; DON'T STOP CAN'T STOP

any time outsiders try to help Aboriginals deal with their problems they're labelled racist, so it's become an impossible problem.
i read a study once about how the best way to solve the education problem in the ghetto wasn't to bring in more wealthy families, or to higher better teachers, or to increase police work in the area. the best way was to literally take the kids and ship them off to rich areas for school, and then they develop their own work ethic and graduation rates skyrocket.

there is 0 chance of that happening in Canada tho cause we tried it once and well the priests raped all the children.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 18:48

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Killed a Girl in 96 posted:

any time outsiders try to help Aboriginals deal with their problems they're labelled racist, so it's become an impossible problem.
i read a study once about how the best way to solve the education problem in the ghetto wasn't to bring in more wealthy families, or to higher better teachers, or to increase police work in the area. the best way was to literally take the kids and ship them off to rich areas for school, and then they develop their own work ethic and graduation rates skyrocket.

there is 0 chance of that happening in Canada tho cause we tried it once and well the priests raped all the children.

Yup! this is exactly the solution to terribly gently caress up cultures. you need to get people into a good social context for them to develop properly. you can't just throw money at reserves and expect them to build Harvard. you need to take the kids out and put them in Harvard, so that they get the idea to go home and build it there.

unfortunately most of the time when that is successful the kids don't want to return to the reserve and help, they just want to live in normal society where they have more opportunities. so in the end you are just destroying the communities anyway, by attrition

# ? Jun 17, 2016 18:56

Vakal: May 11, 2008

Killed a Girl in 96 posted:

any time outsiders try to help Aboriginals deal with their problems they're labelled racist, so it's become an impossible problem.
i read a study once about how the best way to solve the education problem in the ghetto wasn't to bring in more wealthy families, or to higher better teachers, or to increase police work in the area. the best way was to literally take the kids and ship them off to rich areas for school, and then they develop their own work ethic and graduation rates skyrocket.

there is 0 chance of that happening in Canada tho cause we tried it once and well the priests raped all the children.

This is true as one of the worst things ever done was building high schools on the reservations.

Having kindergarten to grade 9 there is fine, but in my experiences shipping the older kids to bigger city centers to attend grades 10-12 does such much for their world view and making them a contributing member of society rather than keeping them trapped on the res until they are old enough to collect a government welfare cheque for the rest of their lives.

But as soon as someone suggest the idea they bring up residential schools from the loving 1880's and everything falls apart.

Vakal fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 17, 2016

# ? Jun 17, 2016 21:03

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

Vakal posted:

Having kindergarten to grade 9 there is fine, but in my experiences shipping the older kids to bigger city centers to attend grades 10-12 does such much for their world view and making them a contributing member of society rather than keeping them trapped on the res until they are old enough to collect a government welfare cheque for the rest of their lives.

I haven't been to reservations in Canada, but I've been in a fair number in the US. If I grew up in a place like that and had the chance you describe, I doubt I'd ever want to go back. Or even if I did, I'd be skeptical about how much of a difference I could make.

So basically this:

Rutibex posted:

unfortunately most of the time when that is successful the kids don't want to return to the reserve and help, they just want to live in normal society where they have more opportunities. so in the end you are just destroying the communities anyway, by attrition

# ? Jun 17, 2016 21:56

social vegan: Nov 7, 2014

We should give them guns or boomerangs or those sticky hands from Dave and busters

# ? Jun 17, 2016 23:00

A Typical Goon: Feb 25, 2011

Vakal posted:

This is true as one of the worst things ever done was building high schools on the reservations.

Having kindergarten to grade 9 there is fine, but in my experiences shipping the older kids to bigger city centers to attend grades 10-12 does such much for their world view and making them a contributing member of society rather than keeping them trapped on the res until they are old enough to collect a government welfare cheque for the rest of their lives.

But as soon as someone suggest the idea they bring up residential schools from the loving 1880's and everything falls apart.

The last residential school closed in 1996

# ? Jun 18, 2016 01:31

reallivedinosaur: Jun 13, 2012; Ogdober subrise! XDDD

A Typical Goon posted:

The last residential school closed in 1996

There are still kids unaccounted for the residential school system isnt some thing of the past.

It's just something Canadians don't want you to know about, because our entire national identity is based on calling Americans racists and sniffing our own farts.

reallivedinosaur fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jun 18, 2016

# ? Jun 18, 2016 01:59

54 40 or fuck: Jan 4, 2012; No Yanda's allowed

No, no and no. Shipping the kids from the res to city centres for high school DOES NOT WORK. At all.
The kids get put into boarding homes with boarding parents who either don't give a poo poo about them or don't have the ability to handle them, and how could they?
They're often coming from really toxic environments and already struggling with alcohol and drug abuse issues. They sneak out, they get black out drunk and they struggle in their schools.
Worst case scenario is student death, which has happened many, many times. Look into the dead indigenous student inquiry happening in Northwestern Ontario.
In principle, it's a fine prospect but as a practice it's almost impossible to do properly.

# ? Jun 18, 2016 17:47

ElGroucho: Nov 1, 2005; We already - What about sticking our middle fingers up... That was insane; Fun Shoe

You guys should do what the Spaniards did, and just keep fuckin' until you get parallel universe Mexicans

# ? Jun 18, 2016 17:52

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

ElGroucho posted:

You guys should do what the Spaniards did, and just keep fuckin' until you get parallel universe Mexicans

the Spanish had like a 100 year head start on the English, i bet by 2116 the native issues will be over

# ? Jun 18, 2016 18:46

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# ? May 29, 2024 23:00

UnfortunateSexFart: May 18, 2008; ð» ððð« ð·ððð·
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They'd have to do something amazing to solve the reservation permanent ghetto problem for everything to be solved in 100 years.

# ? Jun 18, 2016 18:58

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