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Honestly, I think that it's fine to read further into a story beyond what you're expressly shown. You can just as easily take the very basic interpretation of "This wouldn't be an FE game if we got all the non-combat missions", and that would also be valid. For what it's worth, we will get an explanation of this mission's purpose from Rhea in the next update, and you can draw a conclusion from that.
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Nov 12, 2022 02:16
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Blastinus posted:Honestly, I think that it's fine to read further into a story beyond what you're expressly shown. You can just as easily take the very basic interpretation of "This wouldn't be an FE game if we got all the non-combat missions", and that would also be valid. I don't think I said it wasn't. If that's what calling people "overthinking" means, then I retract that statement and apologize for it. I just don't have trust in the game's writers thinking that far in the implications, at least not with the development history this game had.
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Nov 12, 2022 02:24
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On Catherine: https://twitter.com/kimkun06/status/1315054945121579014?s=21
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Nov 12, 2022 03:11
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Delphisage posted:It's a valid interpretation, but I don't think any of it is deliberate. Rhea literally tells Byleth the point of this mission is to show the kids what happens when you turn your sword on the church. Literally. Explicitly. Flat out. The threat and that lesson are absolutely extended to byleth for having it voiced to her, and I would argue it even makes it more potent of one.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:41
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Do yourself a favor and do not respond to Delphisage they are unable to read.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:07
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Blastinus posted:For keeping Catherine's flunkies alive, we get boosters to...frankly the least useful stats. Internal screaming
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Nov 14, 2022 15:22
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MarmaladeSkies posted:I usually make Ashe kill him just for that sweet, sweet angst. I just remembered that Danaru did that too, because he thought it was funny.
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Nov 14, 2022 16:44
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I always make kids kill their parents whenever fire emblem let's me. It's the only proper way to play. Jill always gets a custom axe named Patricide out of the deal.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:25
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FoolyCharged posted:I always make kids kill their parents whenever fire emblem let's me. It's the only proper way to play. Three Hopes sadly removes the naming weapons and trims the kids killing parents way back.  Only case to my knowledge is that you can make Bernie kill her dad.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:29
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Natural 20 posted:Internal screaming I'm wondering if maybe you can expand on this. I get that you might put Dexterity over Charm, for instance, but Luck has never been the most desirable stat.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:49
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Luck is one of the hardest stats to get get green numbers in! That makes its booster one of the most valuable ones! E: oh wait, three houses has bonkers caps nobody ever hits. Carry on
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Nov 14, 2022 21:02
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Blastinus posted:I'm wondering if maybe you can expand on this. I get that you might put Dexterity over Charm, for instance, but Luck has never been the most desirable stat. Sure, I didn't really want to get into the depths of this because it's much more a maddening understanding of the game. But if asked, I'm happy to chat! Luck and Dex combined contribute to crit. The crit formula is this: (Weapon Crit) + [(Dexterity + Luck) / 2] + (Ability bonus) + (Equipment bonus) + (Battalion bonus) Crit damage is 300% calculated damage. Crits are hugely advantageous to land because they will often kill enemies in one hit before they can counterattack, which reduces incoming damage significantly. Luck first: So a luck booster is worth 2% crit because it generates 4 luck. So if you deal 10 damage on an attack, a crit adds 20. So 2% crit is worth 20*0.02 = or about 0.4 damage per hit. This scales obviously, so if you're dealing 20 damage then a luck booster is now contributing 0.8 damage per hit. At 25 it's worth a point of strength. If somehow you're hitting for 50 (which to be fair, Dimitri can get to as can Felix on certain combat arts) it's worth the same as a strength booster. And on top of that it also doubles as protection, removing crit rates from your opponents against you. Dex Dex boosters are worth half of this obviously. But they also grant hit. Physical accuracy: Hit + (Dexterity) + (Support bonus) + (Ability bonus) + (Equipment bonus) + (Battalion bonus) - (Bow range penalty) So a point of dex gives a flat 1% to hit. (For physical attacks) Assuming you have a miss chance and you're dealing 10 damage on an attack, a point of hit adds 0.1 damage. So our booster's 2% hit is worth 10*0.02 = or about 0.2 damage per hit. If you're seeing the pattern here, a Dex booster adds the same damage as a luck booster, delivering half the value through an improved crit rate and half the value through an improved hit rate. ((We're going to ignore Dexterity's contribution to a certain other skill in the game which will come up much later)) Conclusion If Dex and luck are focused on a character with already high base strength and speed growths, they become almost as good as strength boosters for damage whilst also reducing the chance that character gets crit and increasing the reliability of the character's damage output. They are much, much better than any of the defensive items and charm because of how strongly Three Houses favours player phase on harder difficulties.
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Nov 14, 2022 22:38
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Hold up, you're relying on crits for kills on higher difficulties?
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Nov 15, 2022 00:09
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Mysticblade posted:Hold up, you're relying on crits for kills on higher difficulties? it's definitely the right move for some characters. it's certainly preferable to be relying on raw stats and leveraging stuff like combat arts that let you hit twice (or even three times), but getting high enough crit that it's a consistent option is definitely a thing in Three Houses thanks to Battalion Wrath, Defiant Crit, and a few other tools at your disposal.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:37
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Yeah, unlike older games it's trivial to get 3 or 4 characters per House to have close to 100% crit. It's literally possible on a blind run just by playing the game normally.
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Nov 15, 2022 02:56
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It's not so much that you rely on them so much as certain builds work around having a very high rate. And having an 80% chance to oneshot a guy opens up a lot of tactical options.
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Nov 15, 2022 03:28
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Dimitri alone can nearly solo maps with the right investment.
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Nov 15, 2022 03:56
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Chapter 4: The Goddess's Rite of Rebirth The Boar Prince   : But it was not only her divine protection that shielded you, was it? You are just as skilled as I had hoped. : My students deserve the praise.: I am not so sure. I heard some of the students were...hesitant about fighting militia. However, we must punish any sinner who may inflict harm upon believers, even if those sinners are civilians. Oh, that's what that was, was it? Just another credit in the ol' curriculum? I'm really having my doubts about whether the military training these kids get is actually worth the trauma and indoctrination.   : It contained a deplorable plot to target the archbishop on the day of the Goddess's Rite of Rebirth. The plan seems unrealistic at best, but a threat is a threat. We must maintain constant vigilance. To that end, I would like for you and your students to help with security on the day of the ritual.: Won't that endanger the students?: Even if they encounter an enemy whom they cannot best, they should be fine so long as they have you on their side.Why do I even bother having concerns? : The Rite of Rebirth is of paramount importance. It is when the Church of Seiros and its believers unite to pray for the return of the goddess. The archbishop and I will be confined to the Goddess Tower once the ritual begins. Of course, the knights will be on high alert as well, but there aren't enough of them to keep watch on every corner of the monastery. It is far from ideal to be forced to mobilize students, but the gravity of this situation requires that we all bend to avoid breaking.: While there is no need to fear for my safety, we cannot turn a blind eye to those who would blaspheme so heinously.: With any luck, this will all be for naught. Still, be on your guard.I do appreciate that Seteth realizes that the plan is a complete fabrication right from the get-go. Basically no one is getting fooled by this.  Anyway, it's another Moon, and you know what that means! Cutscene - Blue Sea Moon  Blue Sea Moon posted:As the sun grows stronger and the nights grow ever shorter, the Blue Sea Star returns to the sky once more. Believed to be the goddess's home, her followers look to the star and commence celebrations of her rebirth. On the grounds of Garreg Mach Monastery, a grand ceremony is held in honor of this much anticipated event. Every true follower of the Church of Seiros is sure to be in attendance. Yup, the grounds of Garreg Mach are going to be packed with people to talk to, which is why I'm leaving it for next update.  Dang, ambushed us right at the start of the month. Fortunately, we just got 3000 gold as this month's salary, so that's still 2800 to our advantage.  Oh?  Yes, you see, we'd actually filled the support requirements for Dimitri long ago, but we'd been locked out of supporting him until just now. Expect to see that more often. Music - Calm Winds Over Gentle Waters  : What's the favor? : It's in regard to sword training. Not for myself, but... Well... To be honest, I've been teaching swordsmanship to the orphans at the monastery for a while now.: How unexpected.: I must agree. Frankly, I'm not great with children.Only a D rank wielding them at best. : Some of them saw me sparring with the knights one day. They started pestering me to teach them. They were so earnest... I couldn't help but oblige. There's much I wish to show them, but due to my own studies and training, I'm afraid my time is rather limited. Which brings me to my favor. Your swordsmanship is unmatched. I hate to ask this of you, but... Would you consider lending me a hand?: You can count on me.I'll stand in front of them and press the Sword button four times a week.  : All of these children lost their families and homes to war or illness. This may sound a bit arrogant, but...I feel it's my responsibility to help them. I lost my parents without warning too. In that way, we're the same. In Duscur, I lost my father, stepmother, and closest friends. I didn't have many allies at the castle after that. In truth, I had only Dedue for companionship.: Have you no other family?: I'm afraid not. My birth mother fell ill and died shortly after I was born. And my uncle... suffice to say we don't get along.: Is there no one else you can trust?gestures frantically at Dimitri's childhood friends : I once had people I could confide in. Family, friends, instructors, even the royal soldiers. But they were all taken away from me four years ago.Wha-? But... Talk to Sylvain or Ingrid, you dork!  : Rodrigue?: Heh, pardon my rudeness. I meant Lord Rodrigue. He is my father's old companion, and the father of Felix. On the occasions he would visit the capital, he'd take me out hunting or on long horse rides. While Dedue is like a brother to me, Rodrigue is more like a second father. It might sound ridiculous, but...he's the kind of man I hope to become one day. Someone who helps others... Someone who can reach out and save a lost soul.Evidently Felix doesn't take much from his father. : Oh... Please accept my apologies for boring you with my life story. In any case, don't forget your promise, Professor. I'm counting on you.C Rank achieved. What an infodump that was.  Two days later, it's time to get our ear burned off again.  : The knights will certainly have their hands full protecting Lady Rhea. Perhaps our enemy is counting on that...: I agree. : Please, elaborate.: Why would Lord Lonato be carrying around a secret note with an assassination plot written on it? Isn't it possible he hoped to monopolize everyone's attention with this alleged plot...in order to distract from his true aim?Worst fake assassination plot ever.   : True. The monastery undoubtedly houses many weapons that rival even the Heroes' Relics. : Whatever their aim, we can't allow any harm to come to the ladies of the monastery. I mean, what would I do with my spare time?: You mean to say we should search the monastery. Try to find what the enemy is truly after.: Yes. And we should be prepared to fight them as well, should it come to that. I wouldn't mind getting in some training, just in case.Well, we're on guard duty anyway. Might as well do some sleuthing to see what we should be guarding.   : Oh, we haven't been introduced. I am Shamir.: Shamir is one of the Knights of Seiros. And this young man here is– : I work for Lady Rhea! And I'm Shamir's apprentice! Oh, the name's Cyril.Yeah, we've met. Kind of. Dang kid kept brushing us off before. : Shamir's apprentice?: Yep. She's teaching me about the bow and the sword and all kinds of stuff. I've gotta protect Lady Rhea, so that's why I've gotta learn all I can from Shamir.: Cyril adores Rhea. That aside, if you need anything, ask.Huh, funny, I would have just pegged Cyril as some kind of junior groundskeeper. But if he says he's got skills, we should consider trying to headhunt him. Into our house, I mean. Not assassinate him.  So the game's adamant that we should put on our detective hat, so we once again don't have a choice but to walk the grounds. However, there is a lot of words this chapter, so I'll let that be its own thing. Instead, we have a couple of backend things that we should catch up on beforehand.  First off, promos! Dedue's one is pretty obvious, and frankly, he needs it.   The Fighter class has incredibly low base stats for Magic and Resistance, and he still didn't meet them. It'll be Dedue's turn for a writeup at the end of this update, and compared to Byleth and Dimitri, he might be not quite as impressive.  I'm also somewhat embarrassed by Sylvain's dexterity, but he's got the growths in other stats to compensate.   And a couple of double-armpumps for Mercedes and Ingrid, who are WELL within their class requirements.  : I'm so glad I passed! : I must continue to work hard.I've got very straightforward plans for where Mercedes and Ingrid are going, class-wise. You'll probably not be surprised.  Now then, supports! We'll start from the top and work our way down, which means Dimitri and Felix first. We haven't seen Felix chat with folks yet, so I'm sure his perspective will be...   ...Yeah, we're in trouble. : Heh. With that mouth of yours, you grow more like your brother every day.: Shut up. And stop walking around on your hind legs. You're not fooling me.: I cannot fathom why you seem to hate me so.: Because I know what you really are-a beast, craving blood.: A beast craving blood, am I? I assume you're speaking of the events two years ago. Last time we met outside the academy?: I am. : I remember the way you killed your victims. How you watched them suffer. And your face...that expression. All the world's evil packed into it. That was our first battle. I remember it vividly.: ...: Oh, something wrong? Go ahead and deny it, you wild boar.: I deny nothing, Felix.: Well then. I suppose the Dimitri I once knew died during that slaughter in Duscur, along with my brother.: Perhaps you're right.: Hmph. Good grief, Felix just came out swinging, didn't he? The weirder part is the bit where, no matter how wild the accusations got, Dimitri just stood there and took it. Does he have so little pride that he won't even bother defending himself, or...does he actually agree with everything Felix said? Next one. Prepare for some hard whiplash. Music - A Gentle Breeze  : Oh, it's not too terribly early. And what about you? : Oh, I'm just going for my morning walk. Hey, maybe you'd like to join me. It's a great way to start the day!: A morning walk? Funny, Gustave always kept the same habit. You really do remind me of your father, Annette.: I hear that a lot. Father was always busy with work, so he wasn't around much. But when he was home, he'd often take me with him for his walks. : Your father... He worked tirelessly. I don't know if I ever saw him take a rest. I feel as though, in a way, we stole him from you.: I'll admit, it was a bit lonely growing up...but I understand. Father loved his work. No one ever doubted that.I'm not going to harp on this too much before we get to know him, but well...they say home is where the heart is, and if he was more interested in work than home life...just saying. : Actually...I've been thinking recently that I'd like to talk to you more, Your Highness.: Oh? Any reason in particular?: Father was a man of few words, both with myself and my mother. But sometimes he would tell me about you. So...you don't really feel like a stranger to me. In a way, it's like I've known you for a long time... Almost as though you're my big brother.See my above point about Gustave's time spent at home. If working for the royal family was his favored topic of conversation... Sorry, I know I shouldn't harp on this, but whether or not they intend to be this way, I know what a neglectful parent looks like, someone who's more interested in his job than his family. It's why I'm a bit touchy about Gustave as a character. Back to the conversation. : Your...big brother?: Oh! Uh... I'm so sorry. I don't know why I let that slip out. That was rude of me.: No, nonsense! I promise you, I don't mind at all. It's certain that my days would have been filled with more fun if I'd had a little sister like you. What kind of things did Gustave tell you about me? I'd love to hear more on this topic.: Do you really want to know? Well, for one, he used to tell this story about when you were a child and...: You know what? Never mind. I have a bad feeling about where this is going. How about you forget we had this talk altogether? And don't mention it to anyone...I can't promise that I'll stop ragging on Gustave when he becomes relevant to the story. Guy really grinds my gears.  But you know what, let's leave the past behind for a moment and do something a bit more lighthearted. Music - Respite and Sunlight  : Oh no—oh no—oh no! Please tell me that wasn't the pan...An explosion and a lot of things crashing. Guess we're on the ground floor of one of Annette's culinary masterpieces.  : Dedue! Well, as you can see...the pan kind of... exploded. Just a little.: How did you manage that?: I looked away for a moment and the pan just went BOOM!We've seen how people cook in Fodlan firsthand. They just sorta wave their hand and the pan catches fire. Kitchenware exploding is hardly out of the question under those circumstances. : Ugh, I'm grateful nothing caught fire, but now the kitchen is a mess.: Are you hurt?: Oh, no. I just got a little spooked. Heh, I really lucked out, didn't I? That could have turned out much worse.: Indeed. But do not turn your back next time. Your life could depend on it.: Right. Sorry. I'll be more careful from now on. : Huh?The pan is still smoking right next to them, by the way. : I will help you clean up.: No! I can't let you do that! This is all my fault. You shouldn't have to help me.: I have time. Let us fix this quickly. We will need to prepare more food before the others arrive at the dining hall.: Oh, you're right. So, after we clean up, you're also gonna...help me cook?: You object?: Of course not! I'm just so sorry to bother you with this.: ...There's an undercurrent in Dedue's supports that he feels self-conscious about his origins and his appearance, so having Annette just cheerily accept his help probably comes as a surprise.  Speaking of cooking-related supports starring folks without a single malicious bone in their collective bodies...   : I accidentally made this food much sweeter than I wanted... : Let me taste it. : Huh? This is delicious! You're an amazing cook, Ashe!: My dad used to own a restaurant. I helped out a lot around the kitchen, even as a little kid.That would be his original dad, not the dad we just killed. : Wow, that's a lot of responsibility to take on at an early age. No wonder you always work so hard. I might learn something if I watch you cook!: Well, no promises. I just have a little bit of experience, that's all. But look at you—you're great at baking cakes!: It's true that I'm quite good at baking, but I'm not the best when it comes to seasoning. Maybe it's because I don't like spicy food? It's tough to make food taste good when you don't enjoy it.To an extent. You don't have to enjoy what it is that you're cooking, but you do have to be able to understand how to make it taste good.  : Then all I have to do is eat some spicy food! If I learn to like it, then I'll be better at making it, right?: I don't know. Maybe? What makes you say that?: No, no, no. None of that matters. Once I've made a decision, I have to go with it! I'll make something spicy right away!  : If I leave her to it, she'll make an even bigger mess.: (off-screen) Hey, Ashe! Which seasonings should I use? These ones?: Um, hold on, Mercedes! Let me show you! And nothing in the kitchen exploded. That's the important part.  Up next: Sylvain and Ingrid. This game doesn't have the archetypal Red and Green Cavaliers, but their dynamic of Sylvain being brash and irresponsible versus Ingrid's even and professional demeanor is fairly close.  : That was quite a sigh. What's wrong, Ingrid?: Tell me, Sylvain. What am I to you?: You're my friend...one of my oldest, in fact.: An old friend, is it?Now you're probably assuming that the plot is going to go a certain way with this setup. This is basically the setup for some kind of romantic confession. Well, I was pleasantly surprised on my first playthrough with what happened next.  : Heh, nobody asked you to do that. Heck, I thought you enjoyed it. Besides, you're real good at it. I'm excited to continue working with you. : Please don't yell like that. Everybody's staring at us.: When you were eight, you came on to my sweet, sweet granny. My granny!: Come on. I was eight and she was gorgeou— That was a long time ago. Oh, someone's in trouble now. : People can hear you! Please be quiet.: When you were ten, we went to that harvest festival, and you started making eyes at a scarecrow! : A scarecrow?!: Wait a second. That was just an accident...a tragic, tragic accident.: When you were fifteen, you sought—relentlessly, might I add—to involve yourself with Lord Gwendal's daughter. Who do you suppose made peace with the furious lord, despite having nothing to do with it? Hm? Me. Always me, always for you. Every time. : You know what? This conversation is over. I'm done.: My point is that this has to end. Not later, but now.: Fine, I promise I'll try to change. Are you happy now?Emphasis on "try".  And here we go. Last one for the day. I really need to jam these kids together more.  : It truly did. You bought just about everything in the place.: Hehe, you're so good at deciding the best thing to buy. I sort of wanted it all! I mean, not that I was excessive. I think you bought just about as much as I did.: Oh, really? The number of bags you're carrying says otherwise.: What?! That's... Oh, fine. You got me. : It was fun! It's nice going into town without having to run errands for once.: Isn't it? And I'm pretty confident the professor will forgive our little detour.I dunno, going on a shopping spree sounds pretty darn unforgivable. Who would do such a thing? : This actually reminds me of going to school in Fhirdiad.: Me too. It almost feels like that time in our lives was a story from long ago.: So much has changed since then. Oh, but there's at least one thing that hasn't changed.: Me and you, right? We're the same old friends we always were.: That's just what I was about to say!: I've known you so long I can always guess. : Is something wrong? You sound worried.: Since our time in the capital, so much has happened. We've had to make new lives for ourselves, and we've seen at least as many hard times as good. If things keep changing like this, I wonder if we'll be able to stay the same people we are now...: I wonder that too. I don't think everything in the future will be perfect... But it's us, so I'm sure—: We'll figure it out together. Right?: How did you know what I was going to say?: Oh, Mercie, I can always guess what you're going to say. Touche. But they're not able to carry this thought too far before the school bell rings. : Oh. It's getting late. We'd better hurry back before the professor gets angry.: You're right. Run, Mercie! : What? Wait for me, Annie! You know I'm not as fast as you!: Run! Haha! Hopefully I won't have to do a roundup like this for a little while, but quite a few of the kids haven't even C-ranked with one another, so who knows? We'll see how it goes. Extras Dedue Molinaro - Dimitri's retainer, originally hailing from Duscur. A man of few words who worries that he is frightening to others, but is in fact kind, thoughtful, and talented in many respects, although stat-wise... Starting Weapon: Axes Personal Skill: Staunch Shield (Using the Wait action grants +4 Def until next turn) Crest: None Skills - Strong (Lances, Axes, Brawling, Hvy Armor), Weak (Faith, Riding, Flying) Stats - Max and Growths: pre:HP: 30-108 (60%) Str: 12-74 (50%) Lck: 5-44 (25%) Mag: 2-30 (15%) Def: 8-70 (50%) Dex: 5-42 (30%) Res: 1-35 (10%) Spd: 7-35 (20%) Cha: 4-41 (30%) Combat Arts: Vengeance (Lances C+), Monster Breaker (Axes C+), Armored Strike (Axes A), One-Two Punch (Brawling C+) Mighty Blow (Brawling A) Reason: Fire (D), Bolganone (C), Ragnarok (A) Faith: Heal (D) Nosferatu (D+) Recover (C) Analysis: Dedue presents an interesting challenge since his growth spread doesn't seem conventionally all that great, nor does he have a Crest to give him additional power. He has fantastic HP, Strength, and Defense, and his favored skills let him slide easily into the heavy armor class line, but his lack of...well, everything else means that he won't be your heaviest hitter regardless, due to his inability to double. Dedue's role is going to be the front-liner who tanks enemy assaults (and prays there isn't a mage in there somewhere) while the rest of the team comes in behind him, and he's got Combat Arts that can take advantage of both his high HP pool and his sizable defense, so he'll be able to challenge bosses that other characters might be hesitant to try fighting. Now you might be wondering: how exactly does a tanky class keep up with the rest of the team on maps this big? Not very easily, is my answer. On-foot armored classes all have 4 movement when other on-foot classes get 5 or 6. Not only that, but his weaknesses in both Riding and Flying mean that trying to get him a class with mobility is going to take a very long while. But considering that the culmination of the Armor Knight line is a mounted class, we're going to want to pump his Riding skill anyway, whether or not he likes it. Alternatively, we can forget the armor and lean into his axe and brawling skills, making him a War Master class (that's Axes and Brawl together). That's less work overall, but means he won't get a horse. To horse or not to horse. That is definitely the question.
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Nov 15, 2022 18:40
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Blastinus posted:
In the Japanese version of the game, Sylvain was hitting on a cross-dresser. There's a lot of bisexual subtext to Sylvain, something that Three Hopes makes explicit, and it's a common fan theory that Sylvain outright prefers men but feels pressured into heterosexuality by society.
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Nov 15, 2022 18:51
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Blastinus posted:
You and me both. The one good thing you can say about the man is that he’s fun to take stabs at. Blastinus posted:
There’s another, much darker fan theory around this quote. Eight really is way too young to be coming on to people. …but while IntSys may do a lot of dumb poo poo, I really don’t think they’d go there.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:21
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My solution to Dedue: Bench him before mission 1 and never use him.
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Nov 15, 2022 21:44
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MarmaladeSkies posted:You and me both. The one good thing you can say about the man is that he’s fun to take stabs at. He might have done it in mimicry of someone else without really understanding what he was getting into. Kids sometimes fall in love with random adults and do silly things like propose marriage. As for the "red green" archetype, 3H was big on playing around with the expected archetypes, so every house has at least one pair that fits the broad strokes of the archetype, but each tweaks it in its own way.
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Nov 15, 2022 21:59
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Ryushikaze posted:As for the "red green" archetype, 3H was big on playing around with the expected archetypes, so every house has at least one pair that fits the broad strokes of the archetype, but each tweaks it in its own way. No they don't. Sylvain and Ingrid are the only real examples of the Christmas Cavs, and it's mostly thanks to Ingrid wearing a green hair accessory that she's even recognized as being Abel to Sylvain's Cain. Two characters being characterized as best friends with each other isn't an archetype in the sense of "things people expect from Fire Emblem".
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Nov 15, 2022 22:11
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As for Dedue, he's actually a rather flexible character in how you build him. Armored knights are awful in Houses, as they are in most Fire Emblem games, but Dedue isn't disadvantaged from any other infantry based class and he can get up to the tier 4 mounted classes easily enough despite his skill weaknesses. Paladin Dedue is actually a very reasonable option that I have good experiences with, and there's nothing wrong with the basic wyvern class.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:46
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Delphisage posted:No they don't. Sylvain and Ingrid are the only real examples of the Christmas Cavs, and it's mostly thanks to Ingrid wearing a green hair accessory that she's even recognized as being Abel to Sylvain's Cain. Two characters being characterized as best friends with each other isn't an archetype in the sense of "things people expect from Fire Emblem". The Christmas cavs archetype isn't about being best friends, it's about serious versus goofy, subdued verse boisterous and THAT is what each house has a twist on.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:12
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Ryushikaze posted:The Christmas cavs archetype isn't about being best friends, it's about serious versus goofy, subdued verse boisterous and THAT is what each house has a twist on. That's not a Fire Emblem archetype. That's standard fictional character writing dynamics. The Cain/Abel archetype isn't about personality, it's about having a pair of cavaliers where one of the pair has red coloration and the other has green coloration. There's no personality to Kein and Alva, but they're still universally recognized as FE5's Christmas Cavs because of their color-coding. Delphisage fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 23:29
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If you define it that strictly, either Ingrid and Sylvain don't actually fit it because her default/"canon" class isn't Cav, or literally any two playable characters with the right colors somewhere in their hair or outfit can be argued to fit it due to the game's freeform class system.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:44
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Delphisage posted:That's not a Fire Emblem archetype. That's standard fictional character writing dynamics. While you are correct that the colors don't entirely match, the Red & Green Cavs archetype isn't just about the color coding, though that definitely ties into it. Mechanically, the pair also tends to be divided into a Str & Def focus versus a Skl/Dex & Spd focus, which matches Sylvain and Ingrid's stat breakdown. That being said, I think you're right that the boisterous vs. calm duos in the Black Eagles and Golden Deer aren't expressly made to be homages to the Red & Green Cavs. It is funny that they did the same kind of dynamic three times though.
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Nov 16, 2022 00:21
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Shiny777 posted:If you define it that strictly, either Ingrid and Sylvain don't actually fit it because her default/"canon" class isn't Cav, or literally any two playable characters with the right colors somewhere in their hair or outfit can be argued to fit it due to the game's freeform class system. The archetype began breaking down around FE13 when reclass and interchangable class designs between player units became a thing, yeah. Now it's just "if one character is green and another is red, then they're Christmas Cavs". Blastinus posted:That being said, I think you're right that the boisterous vs. calm duos in the Black Eagles and Golden Deer aren't expressly made to be homages to the Red & Green Cavs. It is funny that they did the same kind of dynamic three times though. Only so many anime cliches to go around when you're trying to fill three or four main player casts for a single game, I suppose. On a more petty note: Blastinus posted:Mechanically, the pair also tends to be divided into a Str & Def focus versus a Skl/Dex & Spd focus, which matches Sylvain and Ingrid's stat breakdown. Sylvain and Ingrid's base growths are extremely well-rounded in every category, though. The differences are a minimal 5 to 10 percent from each other, and seem less archetypically driven and more gender driven, given the advantages Ingrid has in magic and especially resistance despite their equal aptitude for magic leanings - her 15% advantage in that growth is tied with his 15% HP advantage for the largest growth difference they have from each other. The "green is speed and red is strength" assumption is also kind of a misnomer that causes headaches for archetype extremists. Yes, the green cavs usually start with a higher speed base, but it's usually not significantly higher than their counterpart (normally about a 5-10% difference), while the strength difference is the same way. It's usually only relative to each other, since they're normally around the same 30-to-50 ratio from each other. Plus the original FE3 Cain actually had a 10% speed growth advantage over FE3 Abel, along with a 10% strength disadvantage. The largest gap between the stats has been Sain having 20% strength over Kent (and only 5% less speed), and Alva having 15% speed over Kein (with the same size gap in strength disadvantage).
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Nov 16, 2022 00:54
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Delphisage posted:That's not a Fire Emblem archetype. That's standard fictional character writing dynamics. Kein? You mean Cain from Thracia? Neither he nor Alva are on the Cain and Abel list that IntSys put in their FE guidebook. As for when the archetype began "breaking down" that would be when they started playing around with the personalities of the knights, which was already in full swing by 8 when the red knight was lazy rather than hotheaded, and 13 played the archetype incredibly close to the original example with Sully and Stahl.
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Nov 16, 2022 02:59
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Sully and Stahl also get the stats 'backwards', but i'm pretty sure their support makes a point of mentioning cain and abel and how they're not all that much like their respective counterparts anyway the actual red and green cavs in this game are the enemy and allied units, because they are red and green respectively.
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Nov 16, 2022 03:44
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Ryushikaze posted:Kein? You mean Cain from Thracia? Neither he nor Alva are on the Cain and Abel list that IntSys put in their FE guidebook. If Kein and Alva aren't listed as examples, then it's obviously an oversight. What "original example"? The "red knight as the hothead" preconception only comes from two examples: Alan from FE6, and Kieran from FE9. The original Cain was a straightforwardly loyal knight who never displayed any rashness - if anything, that was Abel, who flip-flopped between loyalty to Marth or loyalty to Est.
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Nov 16, 2022 04:00
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Natural 20 posted:My solution to Dedue: Them’s fightin’ words right there
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Nov 16, 2022 05:14
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ungulateman posted:Sully and Stahl also get the stats 'backwards', but i'm pretty sure their support makes a point of mentioning cain and abel and how they're not all that much like their respective counterparts Well, I for one think the mechanics are less important to the archetype than the narrative, but yeah, the two were part of a point about not being beholden to the exact situation of the archetype founder. Then we got Christmas Ninjas. Delphisage posted:If Kein and Alva aren't listed as examples, then it's obviously an oversight. Cain is more of a hothead and more straight laced than Abel, especially in the anime, but even in the original games, limited as the depictions are, and also in Thracia where in what little personality they do have, Cain is more hotheaded than Alva. And that was the basic outline of the archetype narratively, red was dutiful but often had a temper, green was more laid back.
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Nov 16, 2022 05:31
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Dedue is the best down the warmaster line. Just take that decent bulk and massive strength and completely obliterate someone on player phase while having the move to actually function as a Frontline tank. Gauntlets do so much to help him with his garbage speed.
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Nov 16, 2022 06:17
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Ryushikaze posted:Cain is more of a hothead and more straight laced than Abel, especially in the anime, but even in the original games, limited as the depictions are, and also in Thracia where in what little personality they do have, Cain is more hotheaded than Alva. And that was the basic outline of the archetype narratively, red was dutiful but often had a temper, green was more laid back. You're just talking past me now. Delphisage fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Nov 16, 2022 |
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Nov 16, 2022 12:27
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I think that we're done with this particular discussion. Chill out, if you please. Changing the subject, I still have a Secret Book and Goddess Icon to hand out, and there are some folks who are definitely struggling with their Dexterity and Luck. I'm leaning towards Dedue, but I was wondering if you folks would like me to hand them to anyone else.
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Nov 16, 2022 14:57
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I think every stat booster should go to Dedue. Yes even magic
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Nov 16, 2022 15:06
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Secret Book to Ashe, Goddess Icon to Felix
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Nov 16, 2022 15:16
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Blastinus posted:I think that we're done with this particular discussion. Chill out, if you please. As per the above, I'd advocate either: Spoilers on a mechanic that I don't think has come up yet: Saving them for a high crit recruit (Leonie/Petra/Shamir) or spending them on Dimitri so you can get a more consistent Battalion Vantage/Wrath combo, Servicably good on Felix as well actually. Wasted on Dedue largely because he's not going to be in player phase combat much and doesn't double easily.
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Nov 16, 2022 15:17
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