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Artum posted:I wouldn't like them to ban forge world stuff again but for the live of god confiscate all their rules writing and have GW proper do it. I'd throw FW out entirely. It's loving garbage and always has been, and it's not even close to being equal access. Foul Ole Ron posted:For the simple reason you have any crazy list design or forge world heavy list: to win. Classic Fantasy was much more amenable to comp than modern 40k is, both in terms of the temperament of the players and the design of the game. ETC comp has never been about balance and always about adapting the game to their specific needs.
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Jan 28, 2018 13:39
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xtothez posted:The trouble with list restrictions is that consistency with 40k codexes went out the window as soon as they started bringing in sub-factions as their own codexes. If you start putting limits on duplicate units or % ratios by role, that makes armies like Harlequins or Custodes unplayable because they have so few unit options to pick from. I don't think there's an easy way to balance those factions against the SM/Eldar/Nids that have access to 30 years worth of unit bloat. Part of competitive 40K is spending an exorbitant amount of money keeping up with the meta. You then obsessively study possible opponent lists and practice over and over again until you've gotten to the point where nothing surprises you. It's about as close to casual 40K as drag racing is to driving to the store. Competitive 40K is designed to expose the weaknesses of the design team and exploit them to maximize your advantage. It's not about the fluff, or ensuring your opponent has fun, or anything other than ensuring victory. Hard counters and brutal combinations are required. I don't particularly enjoy it.
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Jan 28, 2018 13:46
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Corrode posted:I'd throw FW out entirely. It's loving garbage and always has been, and it's not even close to being equal access. FW models are gorgeous and I like seeing them, it's their rules that are garbage. GW needs to stop treating FW as an independent entity and instead fold them into the core design team. While they're at it they should sell FW at GW stores, but I might as well ask for World Peace.
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Jan 28, 2018 14:15
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Does the new codex explain how they even make new Custodes without the Emperor.
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Jan 28, 2018 14:46
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Not in detail. All we're told is that it involves manipulation on a cellular level and requires infants, the younger the better. The scientists who do it are sequestered away, even from the High Lords, and that no one outside of the Imperial Household knows what the process is. The only mention of geneseed is to say they don't use it. I think that it does kind of match my half-arsed theory that the "unique and hand-crafted by the Emperor" nature of Custodians is down to a set of genetic templates he made. With each recruit being turned into a copy of one of the original ten thousand. If you squint. It does mention that all extant pre-unification records of the Emperor include beings matching the Custodes being present. Which you could take to mean that they were created in parallel to the Emperor (if he's a lab construct). Or that he found the lab they were in before starting his rise. Both of which would mean they could be made without his genetic material. It's safe to assume the Astartes geneseed process is a hack to get around the failure rate, compromising quality for quantity. Quite apart from the mechanics of it, I like the parallel to the golden throne in how they are constantly, willingly, fed thousands upon thousands of lives from the noble class of Terra to keep them going. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 15:16
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Uroboros posted:Does the new codex explain how they even make new Custodes without the Emperor. Not that I noticed, but the codex (and fluff before this) has their arms/armour being made by sequestered machinist clans who've been living in the palace for the last 10,000 years, so presumably they have equivalent groups dedicated to making new custodians.
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Jan 28, 2018 15:17
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This weekend in “progress, no excuses”, we get to see teenage One_Wing painting vs adult One_Wing painting: Still not going to be winning any prizes, but I continue to be delighted how much better I can do coming at this with adult reserves of patience and discipline (plus the full citadel paint system being a thing now).
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Jan 28, 2018 15:22
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:FW models are gorgeous and I like seeing them, it's their rules that are garbage. GW needs to stop treating FW as an independent entity and instead fold them into the core design team. Yeah I'm talking strictly from a tournament PoV. FW is not suitable for tournaments and the move to include it is 100% a negative.
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Jan 28, 2018 15:40
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Hit it with a wash. It's practically cheating. Army Painter Blue would look really good.
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Jan 28, 2018 15:42
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:FW models are gorgeous and I like seeing them, it's their rules that are garbage. GW needs to stop treating FW as an independent entity and instead fold them into the core design team. I like forgeworld models and the detail of resin (despite it being a pain in the hole to do anything with). I'll eventually be getting a Fire raptor for my CSM as I love the look of them and think they are the tits. That and Alphabet soup just for the fact he's a rediculous model to field. But I'd feel bad being either to a tournament.
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Jan 28, 2018 15:52
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Corrode posted:Yeah I'm talking strictly from a tournament PoV. FW is not suitable for tournaments and the move to include it is 100% a negative. If GW handled the rules instead of FW then I think it would be viable. To be honest the WAAC "tournament" scene is so utterly hosed and divergent from the intent of 40K that imposing rules on FW is just another band-aid. Tournament play revolves around exploiting poor balance, and removing one source of poor balance doesn't make the other sources any better. To be clear I don't have a problem with tournaments or think they're having fun the wrong way, I just don't think that they should have the level of influence on 40K culture that they have. It's probably because I paint too slowly to keep up with the meta and it's easier (and cheaper) for me to be salty and bitter instead. FW not being allowed at a tournament would also likely limit the appeal of GW. I suspect there's more to it than just rules, such as the Adepticon requirement that FW units be represented by FW models.
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Jan 28, 2018 15:55
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Foul Ole Ron posted:But I'd feel bad being either to a tournament. Empathy is for casuals.
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Jan 28, 2018 15:58
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Here are the current LVO standings. Abaddon + 5 Fire Raptors isn't even on the top 25 from what I can tell, so maybe we can all cool out about "blah blah tournament players are so bad rawr etc"  e: Also I just found out about the Best Coast Pairings app today and I gotta say, it kind of owns. I'd recommend it highly if you're looking to see event results/lists TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 16:04
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Multiple Blood Angels lists in the top ten  Edit: I don't see an Android version of that app in the playstore. Does is let you look at the lists, and if so can someone post one or two for me? Second edit: Nevermind, found it. It's the BCP Player evidently. Third edit: The second place player has a roughly 1100 point Blood Angels battalion including 15 Sanguinary Guard in two units. I knew our codex was solid but this is completely stunning to me. Pendent fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 16:10
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TheChirurgeon posted:Here are the current LVO standings. Abaddon + 5 Fire Raptors isn't even on the top 25 from what I can tell, so maybe we can all cool out about "blah blah tournament players are so bad rawr etc" The winning list  The disclaimer does rather make me want to grab them by the lapels and slap them into unconsciousness.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:19
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:While they're at it they should sell FW at GW stores, but I might as well ask for World Peace. You can't save on shipping by getting FW stuff shipped to a GW store either (you can helpfully have it shipped to the FW store at warhammer world!), which is bullshit especially in the UK where all the stuff is presumably being made in the same place.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:21
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That list's illegal. There's no such keyword as Aliatoc. Disqualification please.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:22
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Person number 4 ran two Blood Angels battalions with Intercessors for the troops of all things along with big blocks of Death Company and Sanguinary Guard Now I'm afraid of a nerf
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Jan 28, 2018 16:23
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Pendent posted:Person number 4 ran two Blood Angels battalions with Intercessors for the troops of all things along with big blocks of Death Company and Sanguinary Guard I mean, you did get a blanket application of one of the most powerful stratagems in the game for zero cost. Its probably a bit much.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:26
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TheChirurgeon posted:Here are the current LVO standings. Abaddon + 5 Fire Raptors isn't even on the top 25 from what I can tell, so maybe we can all cool out about "blah blah tournament players are so bad rawr etc" Just to clarify my initial comment, I have no problem with those models being too good or any opinion on how they stack up to other competitive options. I was just remarking that (presumably in search of being competitive) players have completely discarded any pretense of collecting/fielding something that looks like an army. (in the warhammer sense; a coherent group of models featuring some variety while also being visually tied together)
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Jan 28, 2018 16:31
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Genghis Cohen posted:Just to clarify my initial comment, I have no problem with those models being too good or any opinion on how they stack up to other competitive options. I was just remarking that (presumably in search of being competitive) players have completely discarded any pretense of collecting/fielding something that looks like an army. (in the warhammer sense; a coherent group of models featuring some variety while also being visually tied together) Sure, but that's objectively not true, looking at the top lists
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Jan 28, 2018 16:31
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TheChirurgeon posted:Sure, but that's objectively not true, looking at the top lists Yeah, I mean, barring the first run with stormravens and guilliman the last few winning lists have decidedly been actual armies. Armies concieved by absolute rat bastards, but armies none the less.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:35
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I’m super surprised not to see more nids lists higher up the standings, as lots of what’s in the nid codex matches up well to aeldari stuff (which seems to be dominating) but I guess dark reapers are very good against them and the aeldari list seem to be reaper spam for days. The terrifying thing about the blood angels lists is how “normal” some of them look, like armies you wouldn’t be totally surprised to see in a pick-up game.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:35
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Bucnasti posted:I went to LVO today and spent too much money on Forgeworld stuff.  LVO was a really great time, but shopping at the Forgeworld booth makes it so easy to spend money. However being able to swap out a kit because of a bad cast is so much simpler when you can just hand it back and get another. Lord_Hambrose fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 16:36
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Artum posted:I mean, you did get a blanket application of one of the most powerful stratagems in the game for zero cost. It takes a lot to make an assault army viable these days. After thinking it through I'm pretty sure this is just the meta taking some time to adjust. I like the lists I see but they're generally sort of one-trick ponies, and this is the first really major tournament since our codex released. There will absolutely be ways to counter this in the future. One_Wing posted:The terrifying thing about the blood angels lists is how “normal” some of them look, like armies you wouldn’t be totally surprised to see in a pick-up game. They're all very, very character heavy at least which isn't entirely surprising.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:37
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Pendent posted:
Yeah I guess 7 characters is a little out there (that’s my count on the 4th ranked list) but even that’s not totally wild - almost every primaris-including list I’ve seen at least has Captain, lieutenant, Ancient and a Librarian, and adding a few more on that doesn’t mentally trip my “20+ dark reapers” alarm to indicate that this is massively over the top..
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Jan 28, 2018 16:42
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Yo, these are rad as poo poo. I love how restrained they are, compared to most Obliterator conversions.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:45
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One_Wing posted:Yeah I guess 7 characters is a little out there (that’s my count on the 4th ranked list) but even that’s not totally wild - almost every primaris-including list I’ve seen at least has Captain, lieutenant, Ancient and a Librarian, and adding a few more on that doesn’t mentally trip my “20+ dark reapers” alarm to indicate that this is massively over the top.. Yeah, plus it would look normal in 7th edition where some of those weren't characters but rather command squad add-ons
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Jan 28, 2018 16:46
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Artum posted:The winning list Dark Reapers are too good. We are careful in our local meta not to spam them because they make for an un-fun experience. Probably need a cost hike. And GW may want to consider making the Alaitoc trait not stack with 'similar effects' much like the Ulthwe one doesn't, so that you don't have concealed Alaitoc reapers in cover on top of a building that are -2 to hit with a 2+ save.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:47
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No surprise to see Eldar bullshit in action. The -1 to hit trait is very strong on them, and Dark Reapers are hugely undercosted. The first big rebalance is meant to be March right?
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Jan 28, 2018 16:58
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Dark Angel Hellblasters are even nastier. They're cool looking too. Saw that kit the other day, and now I'm tempted to run a split detachment and do Lion and the Wolf.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:01
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Artum posted:I mean, you did get a blanket application of one of the most powerful stratagems in the game for zero cost. What stratagem is that?
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Jan 28, 2018 17:16
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:What stratagem is that? He's talking about The Red Thirst, the chapter tactic equivalent that gives +1 to wound rolls on the first turn of a combat.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:19
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Liquid Communism posted:They're cool looking too. Saw that kit the other day, and now I'm tempted to run a split detachment and do Lion and the Wolf. Be a real pro, go for Lion & Wolf with Custodes. All the prettiest waifus in one list.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:35
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I've been wondering how well Custodes will ally with Blood Angels. Obviously the infantry hits a lot of the same notes but I think there's a lot of benefit to be had from taking some of the jetbikes. A supreme command detachment with three Shield Captains on jetbikes seems like a really effective addition to a lot of Imperial armies but the standard bikes could be good too for a really tough, mobile obsec unit. Pendent fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 17:45
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Gotta paint my Shining Spears and encourage my mate to buy some jetbikes for his Custodes, so we can have space jousts. TheChirurgeon posted:Sure, but that's objectively not true, looking at the top lists You are quite right, even in 100% competitive tournaments I know that kind of person is in the minority.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:52
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:What stratagem is that? The 1cp +1 to wound stratagems like veterans of the long war and ryza's plasma.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:57
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TheChirurgeon posted:Also I just found out about the Best Coast Pairings app today and I gotta say, it kind of owns. I'd recommend it highly if you're looking to see event results/lists BCP could use a UI overhaul but the information accessible is fantastic. Really surprised at out of all the index/CA armies, Space Wolves are placing so highly at the moment. Haven’t heard much out of them, didn’t know they were that tough.
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Jan 28, 2018 18:01
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I won't lie, the idea of a 10 man Custodes terminator squad splitting into 10 separate units seems amazing.
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Jan 28, 2018 18:12
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Liquid Communism posted:They're cool looking too. Saw that kit the other day, and now I'm tempted to run a split detachment and do Lion and the Wolf. Do it. Take a Lieutenant and some Hellblaster squads and go crazy.
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Jan 28, 2018 18:18
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