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Nervous posted:They've worked hard their entire lives exploiting the efforts of those less fortunate, shouldn't they get to enjoy the fruits of their labor? No, some of that work was their parents exploiting the efforts of those less fortunate.
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May 19, 2024 05:54
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I was wondering about this passage I read: "Blanche asked Cohen if the contract he got Daniels to sign was “a completely legal binding contract”, which Cohen affirmed. That could convince jurors that Cohen’s repayment was a legitimate legal expense, blowing apart the charges against Trump." This is a sort of Metacrime, since there has to be another crime to cover up. So if I understand the theory, he is charged with the crime of falsifying business records to cover up a second crime he committed. He's never actually been charged with committing this second crime, but nevermind, that's not a requirement. The cover up is there. The falsifying business records is there because paying a lawyer to pay someone to sign a contract is not a legal service. It would be a legal service, but a legal service cannot be to commit (the second) crime. The second crime is a cover up, but it is not itself illegal cover up, only an illegal movement of money to a campaign-related purpose. It does seem like anyone who has committed a financial crime in New York has also necessarily committed this felony.
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May 19, 2024 12:46
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Phyzzle posted:It does seem like anyone who has committed a financial crime in New York has also necessarily committed this felony. What do you mean?
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May 19, 2024 13:45
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Phyzzle posted:I was wondering about this passage I read: If they had paid it in one lump sum and marked it, “reimbursement of expenses and services rendered” then maybe? Except they invoiced him 12 separate times for 12 separate legal services over a period where he did no work for Trump. Not partial payments of a large bill. Indeed, there is a document written by Weiselberg in evidence that sums up that plan. The statute doesn’t require you prove the second crime, just that the perpetrator was falsifying the record as part of another crime. Why would you disguise a reasonable reimbursement and payment for work rendered as something else over a year unless you thought you were committing a crime and hiding it? The prosecution has provided several crimes they may have thought they were committing. Phyzzle posted:It does seem like anyone who has committed a financial crime in New York has also necessarily committed this felony. No, you could do the exact same thing because you actually wanted to hide it from your wife and if you weren’t at the same time running for public office it would still be a misdemeanor. Edit: Which is why several witnesses have provided testimony that, “lol, no, Trump wasn’t thinking of Melania”. Edit2: OIC, if they had committed a financial crime they they also committed the felony of falsifying financial records? Yes, apparently this crime gets charged on pretty much a daily basis. Roger Parloff has reported that there are thousands of successful prosecutions of this crime in the NY records. Murgos fucked around with this message at 14:44 on May 19, 2024 |
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May 19, 2024 14:25
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Phyzzle posted:I was wondering about this passage I read: Cohen was then illegally reimbursed for that illegal campaign contribution by later being issued falsified payments for unspecified legal services that never happened. The 34 felonies are then a combination of various documents related to the payments to Cohen and how they are related to the three crimes mentioned above.
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May 19, 2024 14:37
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Man, that's a lot of word to say "WITCH HUNT!"
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May 19, 2024 16:22
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If Trump had just written her a check with “don’t tell anyone we had sex” on the memo line then he would have been fine.
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May 19, 2024 16:34
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withak posted:If Trump had just written her a check with “don’t tell anyone we had sex” on the memo line then he would have been fine.
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May 19, 2024 18:04
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Trump Legal Troubles: Do literally anything else and none of this happens
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May 19, 2024 18:34
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Nervous posted:Trump Legal Troubles: Do literally anything else and none of this happens Trump legal troubles: if trump weren’t trump non of this happens. It’s an amazing mix of lust, greed, narcissism, fraud and incompetence that you could really get only from a handful of people in the world.
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May 19, 2024 20:18
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The argument about whether this was done to save Trump from embarrassment re his family or to help his campaign is so, so dumb. Any reasonable person can understand that it's obviously both, though the timing of it and Trump's terrible nature makes the campaign finance part of it much more plausible. I hope that the jurors understand this, and that Trump being embarrassed or whatever does not mean that it wasn't also a campaign finance crime/fraud.
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May 19, 2024 20:43
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small butter posted:The argument about whether this was done to save Trump from embarrassment re his family or to help his campaign is so, so dumb. Any reasonable person can understand that it's obviously both, though the timing of it and Trump's terrible nature makes the campaign finance part of it much more plausible. I hope that the jurors understand this, and that Trump being embarrassed or whatever does not mean that it wasn't also a campaign finance crime/fraud. Guardian Live Blog posted:Cohen said he asked whether that might cause a rift with his wife. “I said to him, how’s things going to go upstairs?” he said. “Don’t worry, he goes. He goes: how long do you think I’ll be on the market for? Not long.”
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May 19, 2024 21:21
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DTurtle posted:Nah, it was all about the campaign: This is the only thing I disagree with re: cohens interpretation. ‘How long do you think I’ll be on the market for’ to me, says Trump is saying ‘pft even if Melania leaves me over this I won’t be on the market long; some other woman will be happy to be future ex Mrs Trump.’ Still about the campaign, still giving a flying gently caress about Melania’s feelings, but that particular phrase isn’t referring to the campaign (which already had a built in end date) but to his own desirability to women in general even if this relationship ended.
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May 19, 2024 21:48
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Oracle posted:This is the only thing I disagree with re: cohens interpretation. ‘How long do you think I’ll be on the market for’ to me, says Trump is saying ‘pft even if Melania leaves me over this I won’t be on the market long; some other woman will be happy to be future ex Mrs Trump.’ Still about the campaign, still giving a flying gently caress about Melania’s feelings, but that particular phrase isn’t referring to the campaign (which already had a built in end date) but to his own desirability to women in general even if this relationship ended. I think you’re misinterpreting cohen’s interpretation. To me Cohen is saying “Trump evidently wasn’t thinking about Melania because he indicated that if Melania left him he wouldn’t take long to find a new wife. His motivation for all of this was the campaign”.
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May 19, 2024 21:51
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Oracle posted:This is the only thing I disagree with re: cohens interpretation. ‘How long do you think I’ll be on the market for’ to me, says Trump is saying ‘pft even if Melania leaves me over this I won’t be on the market long; some other woman will be happy to be future ex Mrs Trump.’ Still about the campaign, still giving a flying gently caress about Melania’s feelings, but that particular phrase isn’t referring to the campaign (which already had a built in end date) but to his own desirability to women in general even if this relationship ended. Which means it was all about the campaign. Which is what Cohen said. vvvv No problem! When it was first reported I had to read it multiple times myself in order to figure out what it meant and why everyone was reacting so strongly about it. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 19, 2024 |
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May 19, 2024 21:52
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DTurtle posted:Exactly. He didn't care if Melania would leave him because of it, because he would quickly get a new wife. He DID care that it would damage his chances of becoming president. I saw it as Cohen taking ‘how long do you think I’ll be on the market for’ as being about how much longer did he think the campaign would last for some odd reason. Like ‘I’m not worried about Melania when we’ve only got a few more weeks for me to win this’ which struck me as an odd reading.
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May 19, 2024 22:09
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I don't think it matters what Cohen's interpretation is re my original point. Of course it was fraud, a campaign contribution, etc. and of course Trump didn't actually want Melania to know, or his 12 year-old son to know. I just hope that the jurors understand that just because Trump was likely embarrassed, that doesn't mean that he wasn't primarily trying to influence his campaign.
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May 19, 2024 23:20
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small butter posted:I don't think it matters what Cohen's interpretation is re my original point. Of course it was fraud, a campaign contribution, etc. and of course Trump didn't actually want Melania to know, or his 12 year-old son to know. I just hope that the jurors understand that just because Trump was likely embarrassed, that doesn't mean that he wasn't primarily trying to influence his campaign. Cohens interpretation does matter though because unless Trump takes the stand to refute it or the defense can magic up another witness to that conversation then that’s what the evidence in the case is.
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May 20, 2024 03:39
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Oracle posted:Like ‘I’m not worried about Melania when we’ve only got a few more weeks for me to win this’ which struck me as an odd reading. I am curious if she's going to stick with him.
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May 20, 2024 04:19
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I find it unlikely that Melania would be surprised, or that Trump would be worried about her finding out. Theirs is perhaps the most clearly transactional relationship of any politician.
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May 20, 2024 04:36
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Small White Dragon posted:I am curious if she's going to stick with him. I’m betting the prenup is keeping her there, though maybe she stuck around until Barron was 18 because otherwise she’d lose custody, I could see Trump trying to pull that as a dick move. Though honestly he threatened it with Ivana I think and she said ‘go for it’ and he made it like 12 hours before he dropped him off (it was one of the boys).
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May 20, 2024 04:38
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small butter posted:The argument about whether this was done to save Trump from embarrassment re his family or to help his campaign is so, so dumb. Any reasonable person can understand that it's obviously both, though the timing of it and Trump's terrible nature makes the campaign finance part of it much more plausible. I hope that the jurors understand this, and that Trump being embarrassed or whatever does not mean that it wasn't also a campaign finance crime/fraud. Lol you think there's any possibility at all that Trump gives a poo poo about his family? This is the same guy that invited his wife and his mistress to the same ski trip.
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May 20, 2024 04:48
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Charliegrs posted:Lol you think there's any possibility at all that Trump gives a poo poo about his family? This is the same guy that invited his wife and his mistress to the same ski trip. Guy who took his kids to Jeffrey Epstein's child rape island and introduced his daughter to a sex trafficker who ran a model agency.
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May 20, 2024 04:59
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Oracle posted:I’m betting the prenup is keeping her there, though maybe she stuck around until Barron was 18 because otherwise she’d lose custody, I could see Trump trying to pull that as a dick move. Though honestly he threatened it with Ivana I think and she said ‘go for it’ and he made it like 12 hours before he dropped him off (it was one of the boys). I find it hard to believe Melania cares about the kids any more than Trump does. Maybe she does, I just can't see her as someone who cares about anyone or anything that isn't her.
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May 20, 2024 08:30
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Young Freud posted:Guy who took his kids to Jeffrey Epstein's child rape island and introduced his daughter to a sex trafficker who ran a model agency. The same daughter that he won't stop waving a giant neon sign saying that he wants to gently caress her?
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May 20, 2024 10:44
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The Bible posted:I find it hard to believe Melania cares about the kids any more than Trump does. 
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May 20, 2024 12:21
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Melania is a horrible person but I can believe she's human enough to care about her own child. I think it's extremely unlikely she leaves him simply because of the chance she (and/or Barron) could inherit after Turnip croaks, vs. the very real chance her prenup leaves her with nothing if she divorces him. She clearly loathes him but he's the horseface she's hitched herself to, and it looks like she's going to stick with it through the end
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May 20, 2024 13:39
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Given how openly contemptuously he treats all of his children save Ivanka, toward whom as noted he's instead predatory, it wouldn't surprise me the slightest if he's held Barron over Melania's head to keep her around in the prenup. This is after all the same guy who among other things threatened to disown Tiffany is his second wife didn't give him the divorce terms he wanted. Additionally, Melania must be calculating he's only got so much time left on the clock what with being 1) old, 2) unhealthy as hell, and 3) under a lot of stress from the campaign, and trials, and a decent chance of going to forever jail.
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May 20, 2024 13:52
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It was widely reported that Melania didn't move into the White House for months (remember that? that was a real thing that happened!) and it was known that the terms of her pre-nup were amended and Barron's share of the inheritance was inflated to take into account the other kids were already successful adults. Whether those terms changed after he turned 18 who can say, but at the very least Trump got years of seeing his eldest sons being mocked for being hideous and stupid, and Don Jr is basically the shadow realm Hunter Biden in terms of being a currently addicted coke fiend and divorce elemental compared to the recovering Hunter.
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May 20, 2024 16:16
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Tesseraction posted:It was widely reported that Melania didn't move into the White House for months (remember that? that was a real thing that happened!) I can absolutely remember that. I can't ever forget the dumpy fat gently caress pointing to nothing and saying "That's Melania right there in the window, everyone can see her. Wave hello." when someone called him out on this. Just one more random piece of gaslighting from the shitbag-in-chief, but it's always one that stuck with me much more strongly than most others for whatever reason.
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May 20, 2024 18:24
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I remember people speculating it was because she demanded all the toilets and such he replaced so she wouldn't have to use something black people had touched I don't believe that, exactly, but I can't discount it either sooooo tased in the balls it is
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May 20, 2024 18:38
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Switching from Melania fanfic how about those trial developments? The judge has pushed back closing statements till next week, right before jury instructions & deliberations (because of the holiday weekend), and Cohen admitted under cross that he stole from $30k from the Trump Org. quote:Cohen explains stealing from Trump Org.: Under cross-examination, Cohen testified he was reimbursed $50,000 for payments to Red Finch but only paid them back $20,000, effectively stealing from the Trump Organization. On redirect, explained that he did so because he was upset about getting a surprisingly low annual bonus. Maybe it'll be a point in the prosecution's favor to have the jury relate to a guy who stole money or goods from an abusive employer. eta link: https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-05-20-24/index.html Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 19:03 on May 20, 2024 |
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May 20, 2024 18:43
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Jurors were apparently looking very bored during Bove's apparently meandering and difficult-to-follow cross examination of Cohen. The prosecution apparently passed on a few objections probably because they could tell they shouldn't interrupt their opponent loving up E: apparently I use "apparently" a lot. Apparently.
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May 20, 2024 18:51
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DarkHorse posted:I remember people speculating it was because she demanded all the toilets and such he replaced so she wouldn't have to use something black people had touched If anyone demanded all the toilets be replaced it was Donny. It's a toss up whether it's because black asses touched them or they were insufficiently gold plated. She almost certainly didn't go in a combination of negotiation tactics and legitimately not wanting to actually be First Lady. Which is honestly the most reasonable reaction to your worthless sham husband loving up a great grift and ending up President.
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May 20, 2024 18:57
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Trump's issue with the toilets wasn't racism, it was because they were low flush. He ranted several times about low flush toilets that he kept clogging.
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May 20, 2024 19:02
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Gyges posted:If anyone demanded all the toilets be replaced it was Donny. It's a toss up whether it's because black asses touched them or they were insufficiently gold plated. Ironic because the Guggenheim museum offered him a solid gold toilet and he turned it down (he demanded a different work and they offered it as an alternative)
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May 20, 2024 19:10
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Where would you even get a non- low-flush toilet. It's been illegal to manufacture a toilet that uses more than 1.6 gallons per flush since 1994.
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May 20, 2024 20:15
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Import or use a reconditioned one.
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May 20, 2024 20:21
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shackleford posted:Where would you even get a non- low-flush toilet. It's been illegal to manufacture a toilet that uses more than 1.6 gallons per flush since 1994. Vintage Briggs 4920/4930 toilet tank (Aug 1987), white, 3.5 gallon flush | eBay  www.ebay.com posted:2 PEOPLE HAVE THIS IN THEIR CART
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May 20, 2024 20:23
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People do be making GBS threads.
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May 20, 2024 20:32
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