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Sigma X posted:Self-driving technology, as long as it's not mandatory, is a Very Good Thing.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:04
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Basically what I'm saying is that driving for fun should be like shooting a gun for fun. It doesn't really have a place in public. You should go to a designated place for it. That's quite an analogy there.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:05
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Olivil posted:Don't tell me you enjoy having to spend 45 minutes in traffic every morning and back. To get to work I do 10 minutes down a farm road, 15 minutes down a curvy rural highway through the mountains with almost zero traffic, and then 10 minutes offroading into the middle of nowhere with absolutely zero traffic except for coyotes and horses. It's great I love my commute.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:28
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Yeah, my commute is pretty nice too. I run reverse of the normal traffic flow so I get to watch all the people sitting in traffic on the other side of the highway while I blow through at 70mph. I usually average about 25 minutes for my 17.5 mile commute depending on lights near my house.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:33
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Olivil posted:Don't tell me you enjoy having to spend 45 minutes in traffic every morning and back. My commute is all hwy against traffic, only every third day. It's not so bad. Some good alone time, sipping coffee and listening to music with the windows down.  The safety angle is far more compelling, but I'd hate to see automation become compulsory.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:36
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LeeMajors posted:My commute is all hwy against traffic, only every third day. It's not so bad. Some good alone time, sipping coffee and listening to music with the windows down. I live 1 mile from my office but it takes 45 minutes to actually get from my door into the parking garage because there's only two ways in to a campus that houses 8000 employees and human driving instincts means that traffic is a total standstill. Before that, I had a 15-mile commute that took 2 hours each way because it went through the infamous Milwaukee Zoo Exchange. The thing is, I understand that some people have these lighter-use commutes that are fun to drive, but I just don't know how you make an automatic car system work smoothly unless it's all the cars all the time. They need to communicate with each other to enable seamless merging and maintaining a reasonable common speed. If 5% of the cars on the road are being driven by humans, you've made the system non deterministic again and things are still going to get jammed up when all the driverless cars have to make emergency maneuvers to avoid human driving. I guess you could look into setting up cars such that roads are marked in the GPS system as high-usage or not and automatic driving is only mandatory on high-usage roads, but I'm not sure how you'd implement that without awkward moments where the car suddenly seizes control from the driver.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:52
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:
The system is automatically non-deterministic due to the fact that it isn't in a sealed tunnel. You have animals, debris, roadworks, weather conditions, any number of things. Cars, even driven by unpredictable humans, can be modeled in computer systems. We can make assumptions on how quickly that lump on the lidar can move from one point to another. We can see its velocity and heading. We can even make assumptions on how quickly it can brake. Really, just look to google. Google has been operating driverless cars on surface streets for quite awhile now with an impressive number of miles. These are normal everyday streets filled with meatbag pilots. They have operated nearly flawlessly. If they can operate this well when they are unlikely to encounter another vehicle they can exchange data with and cooperate, things will only get better as the density of diverless cars increase on the roads. Human piloted cars will be like insects, buzzing around but having no real impact.
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Jul 22, 2015 17:09
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:I live 1 mile from my office but it takes 45 minutes to actually get from my door into the parking garage because there's only two ways in to a campus that houses 8000 employees and human driving instincts means that traffic is a total standstill. Before that, I had a 15-mile commute that took 2 hours each way because it went through the infamous Milwaukee Zoo Exchange. 1 mile is a 20 minute walk at a normal pace. Why are you driving 45 minutes?
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Jul 22, 2015 17:11
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Powershift posted:1 mile is a 20 minute walk at a normal pace. Why are you driving 45 minutes? In Houston there's a decent amount of people that live within 2 miles of work, but it's frequently impossible to cross freeways on foot. That doesn't stop people from trying and dying all the time. Same thing with cyclists, when there's no infrastructure and no protection by far the safest thing is to drive. If my wife had a remotely safe way to ride a bicycle that was not a 60mph road with no shoulder, she wouldn't be driving the 3 miles to work every day. Sidewalks, shoulders, bike lanes, or even alternate trails are necessary for people to comfortably and safely get around without cars. You can't tell somebody "just walk that half mile" when there's no way to do it without dodging cars.
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Jul 22, 2015 17:26
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howling_mad posted:That's quite an analogy there. Car wrecks kill more people than guns and cars are metal objects hurling towards people at tremendous speed. I think it works. Edit: I had a project in Houston and I'm from Texas. we had a guy visit from Canada for a week. He turned to me one day and honestly asked if we intentionally try to kill pedestrians.
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Jul 22, 2015 17:27
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Sigma X posted:Self-driving technology, as long as it's not mandatory, is a Very Good Thing. What would be nice is when it does become the norm, we see enough of a desire to actually drive for fun that legit racetracks open up all over the place instead of having one within a 90 minute radius of major cities. If I could get to a track quickly and cheaply once a month I wouldn't mind setting my car on auto on weekdays. One concern I have is these autonomous cars have got to be easy as hell to cut off. I'm gonna go berserk if I'm stuck in traffic and jerks keep cutting in front of the autonomous cars that are in front of me. So how do you prevent that? Have them all recording video 24/7 and have little alerts to the police when cars around you misbehave, and if you get too many violations they wrote you a ticket? I don't much care for that solution either.
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Jul 22, 2015 17:57
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That would be loving awful, so god I hope not
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Jul 22, 2015 17:58
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davebo posted:What would be nice is when it does become the norm, we see enough of a desire to actually drive for fun that legit racetracks open up all over the place instead of having one within a 90 minute radius of major cities. If I could get to a track quickly and cheaply once a month I wouldn't mind setting my car on auto on weekdays. When thinking about it quietly to myself, especially after seeing the Google self-driving, it's pretty obvious that the solution is "so what, who cares?". Yes, the G-car will slow down if someone cuts it off, it also slows down if there's a bicyclist, it slows down if it spots pedestrians, and it'll slow down if something is moving roughly perpendicular to it. It slows down when it see orange cones, and it slows down to go around turns that a reasonably good driver wouldn't need to slow down to take. But, as the speeder-haters always love to point out, cutting someone off, or taking a turn really fast, or not letting that bicyclist go in front of you gain you a whole .5 sec of time in your daily 45 minute commute. How hard is the average John Q. Public going to take it when his G-car slows down to let one of those crazy manual drivers cut him off, if he's too busy eating his breakfast and browsing the newspaper to even notice it? How much is he going to rage when his best-conditions 45 minute commute takes an extra minute and a half? EDIT: Example video of the sort of stuff that makes the G-car cautious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csvt6JBAwBk The Prong Song fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 18:04
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No way in hell autonomous cars are safer than self driving cars, at least not until all cars are self driving. As long as people are controlling some of the cars I'm a much safer driver than any computer. Awhile back I was stopped at a red light and saw a lovely old pickup truck in my rearview approaching wayyy too fast to stop. I was in the right lane and had a car in front of me so I quickly checked the sidewalk to my right and saw it was clear, hopped the curb and drove up on some grass to get the hell out of the way. He ended up swerving a bit to the right and winged the car in front of me before crossing the intersection and hitting a pole, but if I hadn't hopped the curb it would have been a 40+mph slamfest that would have seriously ruined my day. Yeah that's an edge case but until the software handles all those edge cases and knows to jump the curb it's not safer than me. I don't give a flying gently caress about little fender benders that computers are 10000x better at avoiding than humans, I give a poo poo about what happens with a tire blowout at 80mph, what happens when a wildfire jumps the freeway and starts setting cars on fire, what happens when you know this part of the road has lovely drainage and there will be 4 inches of of water in a hydroplane prone curve ahead and nobody is slowing down for it, what happens when you're boxed in by two gasoline carrying semis one of whom is driving erratically and it's time to get away from them. As long as it's a mix of self driving and humans I'll keep my steering wheel, thanks.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:10
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Xguard86 posted:Edit: I had a project in Houston and I'm from Texas. we had a guy visit from Canada for a week. He turned to me one day and honestly asked if we intentionally try to kill pedestrians. ... Do you?
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Jul 22, 2015 18:15
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Twerk from Home posted:In Houston there's a decent amount of people that live within 2 miles of work, but it's frequently impossible to cross freeways on foot. That doesn't stop people from trying and dying all the time. Same thing with cyclists, when there's no infrastructure and no protection by far the safest thing is to drive. If my wife had a remotely safe way to ride a bicycle that was not a 60mph road with no shoulder, she wouldn't be driving the 3 miles to work every day. Walking anywhere in Houston would be a loving deathwish. It is a snarled mass of concrete, rebar and 6000lb F350s doing 90mph.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:21
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Xguard86 posted:Car wrecks kill more people than guns and cars are metal objects hurling towards people at tremendous speed. I think it works. It was an unfortunately apt analogy. Driving eventually will become as taboo as casual shooting and for the same reasons. Its potentially dangerous and requires critical thinking. We're systematically and deliberately breeding/teaching/crushing those traits out of the population. And the places that do exist get relegated to the edge of the city due to noise, then the city expands and people bitch about the thing that was there before they were. Sorry for the derail.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:26
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Xguard86 posted:Car wrecks kill more people than guns and cars are metal objects hurling towards people at tremendous speed. I think it works. Did you explain to him how the point system works, ie baby strollers are 40 points and old men are only 5?
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Jul 22, 2015 18:33
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Pryor on Fire posted:No way in hell autonomous cars are safer than self driving cars, at least not until all cars are self driving. As long as people are controlling some of the cars I'm a much safer driver than any computer. Statistics prove you 100% irrefutably wrong.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:34
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Twerk from Home posted:In Houston there's a decent amount of people that live within 2 miles of work, but it's frequently impossible to cross freeways on foot. That doesn't stop people from trying and dying all the time. Same thing with cyclists, when there's no infrastructure and no protection by far the safest thing is to drive. If my wife had a remotely safe way to ride a bicycle that was not a 60mph road with no shoulder, she wouldn't be driving the 3 miles to work every day. I find this sort of thing fascinating. 1 mile and you have to drive it because there's no way to walk without crossing speeding traffic.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:35
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How awesome would it be though to just drive right up the middle of the road at whatever the gently caress speed you want and all the fancy little autonomous cars dive out of your way to avoid a collision.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:40
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88h88 posted:I find this sort of thing fascinating. 1 mile and you have to drive it because there's no way to walk without crossing speeding traffic. Most urban areas in the US are this way. Houston is especially hellish though.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:42
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LeeMajors posted:Most urban areas in the US are this way. Houston is especially hellish though. It just seems utterly insane to me, I'll never take pavements for granted ever again.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:59
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Powershift posted:How awesome would it be though to just drive right up the middle of the road at whatever the gently caress speed you want and all the fancy little autonomous cars dive out of your way to avoid a collision. Or judging by that video, just ride your bike around with your left hand hanging out all day. 20 coordinated cyclists could probably bring any major city to a standstill. A few thousand terrorists could bring our economy to a halt. Hopefully by the time autonomous cars are widespread more people will be telecommuting and the increased need for real life social interaction will result in more local craft breweries with good restaurants popping up in everyone's neighborhoods. And those racetracks I mentioned. If all the cars are electric you can have them right by residential neighborhoods and not worry about noise. Utopia is coming!
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Jul 22, 2015 19:01
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Powershift posted:1 mile is a 20 minute walk at a normal pace. Why are you driving 45 minutes? There's no sidewalks and the only two ways in are either a 6-lane freeway or a backwoods country road with 1 lane and no shoulder. I'd have to hike through the woods to walk to work. I've attempted cycling off and on, but the road isn't wide enough for a bike and a car to go side by side and people have literally tried to run me off the road when I take the lane. Like, honest to god murder me with their car, even though if I wasn't there they'd still just be idling in the giant line of cars anyway.
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Jul 22, 2015 19:28
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Some people hike through the woods for fun. if you work 200 days a year, it shouldn't take more than 6 months to establish the most efficient path through the woods. hack at the trees a little every day on your way through and within 2 years you'd have a bike path. If you fall and die alone somewhere in there, once your corpse was found you'd get a forest named after you, it's essentially risk free.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:05
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I'm pretty sure I'd rather kill myself than live in a place with bad gridlock. I live about an hour and a half away from Chicago, and once was visiting the museums on a Friday. The museums close at 5:00 and I learned my lesson the hard way. Since then I plan my adventures in and out of the city to avoid certain highways (cough Dan Ryan cough) and times. I have about a 35 minute commute (about 25 miles I think), but I can leave work at five, jump on the interstate and get home and the traffic is never terrible. If I go through town it's a little worse, but worst case is I have to sit through one or two lights before going. And if I take the 'scenic' route, there's very little traffic and I get home a little later.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:13
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davebo posted:Or judging by that video, just ride your bike around with your left hand hanging out all day. 20 coordinated cyclists could probably bring any major city to a standstill. A few thousand terrorists could bring our economy to a halt. Hopefully by the time autonomous cars are widespread more people will be telecommuting and the increased need for real life social interaction will result in more local craft breweries with good restaurants popping up in everyone's neighborhoods. And those racetracks I mentioned. If all the cars are electric you can have them right by residential neighborhoods and not worry about noise. Utopia is coming! I'd hardly call it terrorism. Inconveniencism maybe, but causing a traffic jam is hardly terrifying.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:17
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davebo posted:Or judging by that video, just ride your bike around with your left hand hanging out all day. 20 coordinated cyclists could probably bring any major city to a standstill. A few thousand terrorists could bring our economy to a halt. Hopefully by the time autonomous cars are widespread more people will be telecommuting and the increased need for real life social interaction will result in more local craft breweries with good restaurants popping up in everyone's neighborhoods. And those racetracks I mentioned. If all the cars are electric you can have them right by residential neighborhoods and not worry about noise. Utopia is coming! Only if they give me electric cars with real transmissions
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Jul 22, 2015 23:13
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El Scotch posted:... Do you? CornHolio posted:Did you explain to him how the point system works, ie baby strollers are 40 points and old men are only 5?
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Jul 22, 2015 23:42
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Powershift posted:looks like the focus RS blue, at least the wheels are a different co.......oh BMW Smurf Blue returns (lighter than the E46 M3 version though)  I just drove 4+ hrs today across the SF bay area for a stupid meeting and I'd totally let the computer drive for me while I watched a movie but one of the 11 billion pyscho assclowns on hwy 880/80 would just run into my computer driven car. Automakers/google will need to perfect force field/adaptive defense technology first. 
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Jul 22, 2015 23:43
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bull3964 posted:Statistics prove you 100% irrefutably wrong. If by statistics, you mean the numbers that Google has released, they sure as hell do no such thing. There's not enough data for that yet. Sure, the track record is good, but they've driven about a million miles (a million miles that I'm not sure are really fully representative of all vehicle miles travelled in the US). So his argument seemingly being that he thinks he is better at avoiding potentially fatal accidents than a self driving car is certainly not proven wrong by those numbers. There are roughly 10 fatal accidents per billion vehicle miles driven in the united states, which means that if humans had driven those same million miles that the Google self driving cars, you would still not expect a fatal accident. Even if not considering just fatal accidents, I certainly wouldn't conclude from any of the numbers released thus far that their cars are 100% irrefutably safer than human driven cars. There's just not enough data yet. If you're referring to some other data or statistical analysis that I'm unaware of, I'd like to see it. I'm also curious how it is possible that in this discussion of the infallibility of self-driving cars, nobody has mentioned the whole Jeep hacking thing? While I trust Google's engineers working on self driving cars more than that, I find it amazing that the mere *possibility* of software bugs hasn't been brought up, as far as I can tell. But it's not a possibility, it's an inevitability.
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Jul 23, 2015 05:59
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who gives a gently caress about google's accident statistics? I want to see their statistics on the number of times the driver/overseer had to make a safety intervention. they're already cutting other self-driving cars off, presumably to eliminate the competition in what can only eventually become a remake of Terminator but with cars
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Jul 23, 2015 11:58
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Steve French posted:If by statistics, you mean the numbers that Google has released, they sure as hell do no such thing. There's not enough data for that yet. Sure, the track record is good, but they've driven about a million miles (a million miles that I'm not sure are really fully representative of all vehicle miles travelled in the US). Google is still reluctant to let its cars run on hills, or any place that hasn't first been exhaustively mapped down to the millimeter. It's safe to say there's a loong way to go in terms of development.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:24
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Nodoze posted:Only if they give me electric cars with real transmissions How would that even work? If you want to fake it the Tesla Model S will let you turn off creeping and hill assist rollback braking so you can feel like a manual but why would you have traditional clutches in something like that? Don't you like all the torque from the second you hit the pedal?
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Jul 23, 2015 18:57
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davebo posted:How would that even work? If you want to fake it the Tesla Model S will let you turn off creeping and hill assist rollback braking so you can feel like a manual but why would you have traditional clutches in something like that? Don't you like all the torque from the second you hit the pedal? Yeah that seems pretty silly. I like cars with no transmissions because all torque from zero owns.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:16
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Mazda Gives New Miata To Unlucky Owner Of The First Wrecked 2016 Miata
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Jul 24, 2015 01:41
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I drive 35 minutes to work each day (it's about 30 miles) and think that's way too goddamn much. About half is back roads and the other half is 70mph speed limit highway. Every day I kick myself for not buying a house close to work. 35 minutes x2 is 70 minutes, an hour and ten. If I lived ten minutes from work I could take my extra hour and go to the gym every day without sacrificing anything. Choose your own adventure instead of go to the gym. An hour a day is a loving lot of time. Sure, it may pay better to work in the city, and it's cheaper to live in the suburbs, but, assuming you work 5 days a week 48 weeks per year,if you cut your daily commute from 2 hours to a half hour you just saved yourself 360 hours. That's some serious time. I wake up at 5 am, leave for work at 6:30 and am usually home around 6 and am in bed around 9. That means I get 4.5 hours at my house to do stuff for myself and for my family every day, and that includes boring stuff like eating and showering and shaving. An extra hour is huge. My point is that I really, really don't understand people who commute a total of 2 hours each day for work. Is the job you have or the place you live worth that much of your life?
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Jul 24, 2015 01:42
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Seems like click bait. Mazda saying they have "his name on a Miata that will be delivered in a month" means they put in a factory order for one, nothing more. If they gift him one i hope he enjoys cutting a check for $10000 to the IRS because the government will definitely consider that income.
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Jul 24, 2015 02:18
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coolskillrex remix posted:Seems like click bait. Mazda saying they have "his name on a Miata that will be delivered in a month" means they put in a factory order for one, nothing more. If they gift him one i hope he enjoys cutting a check for $10000 to the IRS because the government will definitely consider that income. IF he financed it, what will probably happen is that Mazda Finance (or whoever) will adjust the VIN, keep the terms as is, and Mazda will buy the totaled car from the insurance company. If he was somehow gifted a brand new car, then yeah, he'll be paying the IRS. The IRS portion should be between 10-15 percent. When my wife won our wedding (boring story), we had to pay about 10 percent of what the value of it was.
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