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The only race that matters in Star Wars is mechanoman.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:41
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What if Poe is really aGungan?
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Oct 3, 2016 18:43
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Pirate Jet posted:As far as I'm concerned this is the audience that RLM deserves for that loving Ghostbusters video. Do you mean the one that didnt actually deny sexism and racism and harassment happened
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Oct 3, 2016 19:16
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Actually, I mean the one that said that the harassment wasn't actually a big deal and was just played up by Sony for marketing and was posted just a few days before Leslie Jones had her passport and private photos posted on her own hacked social media accounts.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:20
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Pirate Jet posted:Actually, I mean the one that said that the harassment wasn't actually a big deal and was just played up by Sony for marketing and was posted just a few days before Leslie Jones had her passport and private photos posted on her own hacked social media accounts. ...could you point to a timestamp for the video where they say the harassment wasn't a big deal?
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Oct 3, 2016 19:21
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Zoran posted:Uh, aren't you guys the ones asking for a safe space where no one is allowed to like the prequels? This is a pretty weird "no u" on factual grounds, considering that this thread is a very carefully caretaken safe space where the richly deserved mockery of pretentious lackwits is a bullet train to probation station
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Oct 3, 2016 19:23
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Teh Zor is that you?
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Oct 3, 2016 19:24
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Vegg220 posted:This is a pretty weird "no u" on factual grounds, considering that this thread is a very carefully caretaken safe space where the richly deserved mockery of pretentious lackwits is a bullet train to probation station SMG is the most probated poster in this thread, buddy
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Oct 3, 2016 19:26
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:SMG is the most probated poster in this thread, buddy Is that good?
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Oct 3, 2016 19:30
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Vegg220 posted:This is a pretty weird "no u" on factual grounds, considering that this thread is a very carefully caretaken safe space where the richly deserved mockery of pretentious lackwits is a bullet train to probation station What the gently caress are you talking about?
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Oct 3, 2016 19:30
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:SMG is the most probated poster in this thread, buddy They're also not on their fourth account just from this thread lol
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Oct 3, 2016 19:31
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I disagree with most of the more critical points about TFA, but he outright said he was digging deep at the stuff that bugged him. The 'adventure films need a "get the girl" moment' and 'it doesn't matter if kids have diverse role models' bits were especially dumb.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:36
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The fanboy has two characteristics that are inherently in conflict. One is his belief that he is really smart and insightful. The other is that he likes dumb garbage for children. There are some resolutions to this conflict. One is that the dumb garbage is ok to like because it's a guilty pleasure. Another is to stop liking dumb garbage for children. What we see in this thread is the least healthy. He refuses to cede an inch on either his pretension or his terrible taste, and so his mind breaks from this friction, he convinces himself that the dumb crap for dim grade schoolers is actually a work of secret subversive genius. This thread is a rare gem. Even in the mainstream prequel apologism the line is that lightsabers are Awesome or the acting was actually good according to some Martian ideal. This is an advanced otherkin thread. I'm Tezzor and I can't stop viewing this terrarium of belligerent clowns (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 3, 2016 19:36
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Vegg220 posted:The fanboy has two characteristics that are inherently in conflict. One is his belief that he is really smart and insightful. The other is that he likes dumb garbage for children. There are some resolutions to this conflict. One is that the dumb garbage is ok to like because it's a guilty pleasure. Another is to stop liking dumb garbage for children. What we see in this thread is the least healthy. He refuses to cede an inch on either his pretension or his terrible taste, and so his mind breaks from this friction, he convinces himself that the dumb crap for dim grade schoolers is actually a work of secret subversive genius. This thread is a rare gem. Even in the mainstream prequel apologism the line is that lightsabers are Awesome or the acting was actually good according to some Martian ideal. This is an advanced otherkin thread. I'm Tezzor and I can't stop viewing this terrarium of belligerent clowns Schwarzwald posted:What the gently caress are you talking about?
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Oct 3, 2016 19:41
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I think he doesn't like Star Wars much.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:42
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Vegg220 posted:The fanboy has two characteristics that are inherently in conflict. One is his belief that he is really smart and insightful. The other is that he likes dumb garbage for children. There are some resolutions to this conflict. One is that the dumb garbage is ok to like because it's a guilty pleasure. Another is to stop liking dumb garbage for children. What we see in this thread is the least healthy. He refuses to cede an inch on either his pretension or his terrible taste, and so his mind breaks from this friction, he convinces himself that the dumb crap for dim grade schoolers is actually a work of secret subversive genius. This thread is a rare gem. Even in the mainstream prequel apologism the line is that lightsabers are Awesome or the acting was actually good according to some Martian ideal. This is an advanced otherkin thread. I'm Tezzor and I can't stop viewing this terrarium of belligerent clowns Most people in the thread don't like the prequels. I don't particularly like the prequels. There is no need to be so angry at those who do just because they defend their opinion "pretentiously". 
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Oct 3, 2016 19:44
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But I was told just recently in this thread that the original films were much better because Star Wars should be about not thinking too hard? 
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Oct 3, 2016 19:44
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The truly baffling thing is that the person here who has come closest to saying that the prequels are "a work of secret subversive genius" is Tezzor him or her self.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:46
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Steve2911 posted:I disagree with most of the more critical points about TFA, but he outright said he was digging deep at the stuff that bugged him. I don't think the criticism is that there has to be a 'get the girl', it's just that it's okay to have a serious, adult tone. And he's right about diversity - don't cast actors just to check boxes, because no one gives a poo poo, especially kids. In this film, the choice to be as diverse as possible worked out really well, but that doesn't always happen.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:53
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Red posted:And he's right about diversity - don't cast actors just to check boxes, because no one gives a poo poo, especially kids. Casting actors "just to check boxes" might not be all that admirable, but I don't know how you can argue that no one gives a poo poo--they quite demonstrably do.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:57
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Kids being affected by a lack of representation is in fact s pretty well documented phenomenon
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Oct 3, 2016 19:58
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Red posted:And he's right about diversity - don't cast actors just to check boxes, because no one gives a poo poo, especially kids. In this film, the choice to be as diverse as possible worked out really well, but that doesn't always happen. Can you name some films where people just checked boxes on some imaginary diversity card and the result was a disaster? Genuinely curious.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:00
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Kids being affected by a lack of representation is in fact s pretty well documented phenomenon I think RLM's point is that hordes of kids are going to go see it regardless. So, financially/creatively, it doesn't matter. Have studies shown a link demonstrating that kids are affected by those decisions? Yep, but that's a different conversation. Serf posted:Can you name some films where people just checked boxes on some imaginary diversity card and the result was a disaster? Genuinely curious. Off the top of my head, Flight of the Phoenix (remake) was... not good. But I'm not saying casting for diversity's sake is automatically detrimental to the film - I think RLM is saying it does nothing for the creative process.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:06
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Red posted:I think RLM's point is that hordes of kids are going to go see it regardless. I think the point wasn't about money, but rather about kids seeing people who look like them up on the screen doing heroics and stuff. Red posted:Off the top of my head, Flight of the Phoenix (remake) was... not good. While I'm not familiar with the original or the remake, was it just a bad movie or did the diversity drag it down somehow? Is the white nationalist crowd that important to the success of movies?
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Oct 3, 2016 20:11
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Serf posted:I think the point wasn't about money, but rather about kids seeing people who look like them up on the screen doing heroics and stuff. See, I took it as they wanted to make a film people would like, that 'repaired' the damage done by the prequels - and was creatively well done. Cast good actors, regardless of race/gender. If that's what they did, great. RLM seems to think they tried to fill all the check boxes. I'm not sure I agree, though. I'd like to think the people they picked deserved to be cast because they were great - and TFA being a good film supports that. The majority of the cast of TFA is white, so I'm kind of thinking (Edit: RLM talking about) diversity is a non-issue. quote:While I'm not familiar with the original or the remake, was it just a bad movie or did the diversity drag it down somehow? Is the white nationalist crowd that important to the success of movies? It was a meh movie that didn't need to be made, and was quickly forgotten. The cast is a little bit of everything - super diverse, but nothing about the film works well, so having a diverse cast didn't actually do anything to make it better. I'm not supporting/disagreeing with RLM here, just trying to suss out what they're saying. Red fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 20:17
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Red posted:See, I took it as they wanted to make a film people would like, that 'repaired' the damage done by the prequels - and was creatively well done. Cast good actors, regardless of race/gender. If that's what they did, great. If I remember correctly, Abrams literally said they should pick a more diverse cast because of how hugely important Star Wars is. But it turns out you can totally cast for diversity and pick fantastic actors like John Boyega and Oscar Isaac. Full disclosure: this might be some alt-right fever dream I read about, but I'm almost certain its based on something Abrams actually said. Red posted:It was a meh movie that didn't need to be made, and was quickly forgotten. The cast is a little bit of everything - super diverse, but nothing about the film works well, so having a diverse cast didn't actually do anything to make it better. Okay, but the diversity doesn't seem to be the issue here. There are tons of movies that are just mediocre/bad for any number of reasons. I just can't see how casting for diversity could make a movie bad.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:22
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I don't think the diverse cast was part of a money making scheme. It was part of not being shitlords in 2016.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:23
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Serf posted:If I remember correctly, Abrams literally said they should pick a more diverse cast because of how hugely important Star Wars is. But it turns out you can totally cast for diversity and pick fantastic actors like John Boyega and Oscar Isaac. That... sounds familiar. Didn't he or Hamill talk about inserting a gay character, and possibly having it be Luke? Edit: Wait, why can't Boyega and Isaac be cast on the strengths of their talent? They're both amazing actors. quote:Okay, but the diversity doesn't seem to be the issue here. There are tons of movies that are just mediocre/bad for any number of reasons. I just can't see how casting for diversity could make a movie bad. You're not wrong. I'm just saying that casting for diversity's sake, in that case, didn't help, either. I think back to Thor, and casting Idris Elba as Heimdall. Heimdall was white in the comics. A lot of racist "fans", who I'm sure read the book, went nuts about it - but Elba was fantastic, and made the character great. Said "fans" haven't complained lately. And I'm sure he was cast because he's Idris Elba, not because he's black. The RLM review is suggesting producers should cast good people, and don't worry about orientation/race/gender. At the same time, having a gay character is also a good thing - because people in real life are gay, and an adult watching Star Wars can handle having a gay person on screen. Red fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 20:29
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Actors and directors are paid to bring their own interpretation to a role, so their race will always influence the creative process. A black American actor playing a role as white as possible is still a creative decision, a commentary on the character, different from what it would have been with a white American actor playing the role as white as possible, or the black actor being more "black." If you only or even just preferentially cast white people for leading roles in a pre-, post-, or non-racial setting (like Star Wars -- as was just mentioned, the only "races" are "droid" and "not droid") . . . well, one of a few things has happened, right? 1) you are consciously or unconsciously a racist shitlord 2) somebody above your pay grade has ideas about "box office draw" or other marketing speak, banking on the racism of the audience, lovely even if the decider is not racist 3) despite the huge numbers of talented actors who are not white, you somehow did not find people suitable for the lead roles #3 is nigh impossible for a Hollywood-scale movie and all three perpetuate the systemic racism of Hollywood and America.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:30
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Yeah I guess inevitably the Plinkett reviews of movies he actually likes are never quite as fun as the other ones. This was more along the lines of the Avatar or Star Trek The Star Trek reviews. And I think whether you like or dislike TFA there is not as much to say about it as the prequels. It's pretty inoffensive. There's more to talk about in the surrounding context of the movie -- the fact that it's a soft reboot that attempts to "fix" Star Wars is really the elephant in the room here. Absent that context, it's a perfectly fine little action/adventure movie.Steve2911 posted:I don't think the diverse cast was part of a money making scheme. It was part of not being shitlords in 2016. A little of both I think. There's nothing wrong with it, in fact it's pretty awesome and didn't hurt the movie in any way. But they also definitely used it as a selling point, talking it up in a lot of the promotional interviews. Which is fine I guess, it just seems a little self-congratulatory.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:35
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homullus posted:Actors and directors are paid to bring their own interpretation to a role, so their race will always influence the creative process. A black American actor playing a role as white as possible is still a creative decision, a commentary on the character, different from what it would have been with a white American actor playing the role as white as possible, or the black actor being more "black." This is interesting, because the RLM review even points out that casting for a moving in 1970s London probably didn't bring a lot of diversity. I wish I had the link to the story about Matt Groening and his rules for writing the Simpsons in relation to diversity/sensitivity. I can't remember, but there were rules to guide the writing team that were surprisingly ahead of their time.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:37
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Red posted:That... sounds familiar. Didn't he or Hamill talk about inserting a gay character, and possibly having it be Luke? I never said they weren't. But when Abrams decided to go for diversity, he decided to go for the best people he could find. And I'd argue that he found them. Red posted:You're not wrong. I'm just saying that casting for diversity's sake, in that case, didn't help, either. Out of curiosity, do you have a source for them saying they were purposefully casting the movie with a diverse cast in mind? I've seen a lot of speculation that diverse cast of the Fast and Furious movies have helped them at the box office. I'll have to dig up the article on demographics of viewers, but it seemed to confirm that the movies were very popular among minority audiences in America, and one has to wonder if there is a link between representation and success.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:42
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Lol I love this guy writing off diversity like its a meaningless buzzword.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:52
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Serf posted:I never said they weren't. But when Abrams decided to go for diversity, he decided to go for the best people he could find. And I'd argue that he found them. His production company is doing that now - but does it apply to casting, too? And yeah, Boyega is great - but I think Isaac was already established by this point. quote:Out of curiosity, do you have a source for them saying they were purposefully casting the movie with a diverse cast in mind? I don't think so - but every review you'll read mentions the rainbow/mosaic cast before saying it was meh at best. quote:I've seen a lot of speculation that diverse cast of the Fast and Furious movies have helped them at the box office. I'll have to dig up the article on demographics of viewers, but it seemed to confirm that the movies were very popular among minority audiences in America, and one has to wonder if there is a link between representation and success. That'd be interesting. Plus, I wonder if actors like Rock or Diesel appeal to everyone, regardless.
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Oct 3, 2016 21:02
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Red posted:I don't think so - but every review you'll read mentions the rainbow/mosaic cast before saying it was meh at best. This says something about the reviewers, not the movie.
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Oct 3, 2016 21:28
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There were definitely comments from the producers about how they opened up auditions for most of the roles to a racially diverse set of actors. They highlighted Rey in particular and I think also Finn, but never said a peep about Kylo (who obviously could not be nonwhite).
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Oct 3, 2016 21:44
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Zoran posted:but never said a peep about Kylo (who obviously could not be nonwhite). Eh they could've explained it away.
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Oct 3, 2016 21:51
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Steve2911 posted:Eh they could've explained it away. It worked in Blazing Saddles!
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Oct 3, 2016 22:02
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What's really important is that RLM's thesis is that we must gently chide the Disney corporation for not providing an even better product.
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Oct 3, 2016 22:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What's really important is that RLM's thesis is that we must gently chide the Disney corporation for not providing an even better product. He got so close to the heart of the matter when he briefly acknowledged that the prequels were meant to be different from the originals.
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Oct 3, 2016 22:30
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