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Shibawanko posted:Learning to enjoy literature instead of genre fiction is a form of maturing, becoming complacent and reading nostalgic scifi or fantasy or airport fiction is complacency, especially when most popular stuff nowadays is infantilizing. Being able to reject something is a skill that has to be learned and which involves being able to see what sort of emotions and people something appeals to and how it is marketed. Shibawanko posted:In academic discourse for example being able to see why a particular literary theory is popular with a lot of people (for example: because it's easy thinking, because it lends itself to certain kinds of quickly written papers, because it confirms people's unspoken assumptions about literature), then that can help you form reasons for why you should reject it. Being able to model other people's reasons for preferring inferior stuff is how you can synthesize something new, whether that's a personal taste or reasons for thinking of something differently. It's productive.
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Sep 11, 2019 09:40
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All that sure sounds like whiny bullshit. But I'm sure it's different.
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Sep 11, 2019 13:47
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Reflexive contrarians are not free-thinking anymore than people who blindly follow popular consensus. You're just doing it in reverse.
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Sep 11, 2019 18:20
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Which is objectively worse, as being normal is already good. That's like reflexively being anti-normal.
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Sep 11, 2019 18:35
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Tiggum posted:Rejecting either "genre" or "literary" fiction is equally stupid. Those descriptors are not marks of quality and rejecting something out of hand simply because it has been labelled as such is a sign of immaturity. And being able to reject things is not a skill that takes much learning or maturity. Babies can do it. Who likes what and for what reason matters for whether or not something is good, or at least is a very good indicator for its quality. More concrete example: let's take a popular movie, like American Psycho. This movie is supposed to be a critique of a sort of 80's Donald Trump type businessman and the murders are ostensibly a metaphor for destructive inhuman greed. This sounds okay as a premise, but hold up because this movie is also hugely popular with chuds and creeps who have Patrick Bateman in a raincoat avatars. This isn't because it's a good movie that gets appropriated by bad people, it's because the movie already incorporates this creepy torture porn angle that's really where its main focus lies (the book is worse, of course, but not as well known). The people whom it ultimately appealed to tell you something about its true nature, without even necessarily having to see the movie itself.
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Sep 11, 2019 19:45
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Shibawanko posted:More concrete example: let's take a popular movie, like American Psycho. This movie is supposed to be a critique of a sort of 80's Donald Trump type businessman and the murders are ostensibly a metaphor for destructive inhuman greed. This sounds okay as a premise, but hold up because this movie is also hugely popular with chuds and creeps who have Patrick Bateman in a raincoat avatars. This isn't because it's a good movie that gets appropriated by bad people, it's because the movie already incorporates this creepy torture porn angle that's really where its main focus lies (the book is worse, of course, but not as well known). The people whom it ultimately appealed to tell you something about its true nature, without even necessarily having to see the movie itself. 
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Sep 11, 2019 19:48
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Shibawanko posted:Who likes what and for what reason matters for whether or not something is good, or at least is a very good indicator for its quality. nah
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Sep 11, 2019 19:57
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online nerds just enjoy making moral judgements about people based on trivial bullshit, because it makes their brains release feel-good juice this is the internet, there is no place for understanding or nuance forgiveness is weakness, intent is meaningless
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Sep 11, 2019 20:02
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Shibawanko posted:Who likes what and for what reason matters for whether or not something is good, or at least is a very good indicator for its quality. Have you seen the film?
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Sep 11, 2019 20:03
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Shibawanko posted:Who likes what and for what reason matters for whether or not something is good, or at least is a very good indicator for its quality. Neo-nazis love American History X. Does that say anything about its quality?
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Sep 11, 2019 20:06
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Shibawanko posted:Contrarianism is a good impulse. A good metric to use in life is: if you see anything out there, and a lot of lame and loving stupid people enjoy it, you can probably think of a good reason to hate it passionately even if it's not immediately obvious. This isn't being edgy at all, it's how personal growth works, it's how you grew out of stupid high school subculture stuff and stopped liking certain bands and started liking new ones, by bouncing off other poo poo and learning to hate it and you should never stop doing it. It isn't, it's not, you can't, it is, it's not, it's not, you should.
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Sep 11, 2019 21:06
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Aside from dumb contrarian jokes, my take is that understanding why people like or don't things and having conversations about that is fantastic, and we should do more of that. And using creative works as jumping points to discuss related things is also fantastic (or can be). Using those conversations (or your pet literary theories) as bludgeons to tell people that their preferences are wrong and they should feel bad about them is less fantastic. Don't do that.
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Sep 11, 2019 21:21
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Patrick Spens posted:Neo-nazis love American History X. Does that say anything about its quality? No but that movie does suck.
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Sep 11, 2019 21:29
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It's real weird how Americans are so crazy about their flag but if you ask them to draw it apparently they have no idea what the actual details of it are. Like, how many stars are there? Oh, tons. And how many stripes? A bunch. To be clear, it's weird how obsessed with the flag Americans are, and given that fact, it's also weird how inaccurately they're able to recall its details. You'd think that either they'd be like normal people and not give a poo poo about their country's flag, or they'd care enough about it to know how to reproduce it, but actually it's neither. They care about it a lot, but only as a vague concept - as long as it looks sort of right they're satisfied. It doesn't have to be accurate.
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Sep 11, 2019 21:39
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Tiggum posted:It's real weird how Americans are so crazy about their flag but if you ask them to draw it apparently they have no idea what the actual details of it are. Like, how many stars are there? Oh, tons. And how many stripes? A bunch. Why are you focusing on being able to draw it or not? If they don't know the meaning of the stars or the stripes or the color scheme, that's one thing (even a 5 year old has no excuse for not knowing what the stars mean at least and therefore knows how many there are), but in what context would you be drawing the american flag outside of like elementary school/day care (unless you're an artist who wants to include it, but it's easy to just google it or look out the window, there's probably one hanging within a block or two)?
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Sep 11, 2019 22:43
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House sauces usually suck. It's almost always just mayo or vinegar with the faintest hint of flavoring.
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Sep 11, 2019 23:22
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Patrick Spens posted:Neo-nazis love American History X. Does that say anything about its quality? Despite it's ultimate conclusion, I've always found that movie to be weirdly flattering to Neo-nazis.
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Sep 12, 2019 00:47
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Why are you focusing on being able to draw it or not? If they don't know the meaning of the stars or the stripes or the color scheme, that's one thing (even a 5 year old has no excuse for not knowing what the stars mean at least and therefore knows how many there are), but in what context would you be drawing the american flag outside of like elementary school/day care (unless you're an artist who wants to include it, but it's easy to just google it or look out the window, there's probably one hanging within a block or two)? THIRTEEN COLONIES THIRTEEN STRIPES FIFTY STATES FIFTY STARS AT ONE POINT WE HAD A STRIPE FOR EACH STATE BUT WE WALKED IT BACK CUZ THAT BECAME UNTENABLE now ask me to recite all the states in alphabetical order (the flag is ugly and looks better with fewer, bigger stars and stripes  )christmas boots posted:Ok but did Jimmy really exist or was he just a persona created by Jesus that he “killed off” when the whole thing fell apart? I forget which one is Jimmy and which one is Jesus Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 02:09 on Sep 12, 2019 |
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Sep 12, 2019 01:47
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yeah I eat rear end posted:but it's easy to just google it or look out the window, there's probably one hanging within a block or two)? That's exactly the point. Why are there so many incorrect drawings of the American flag by people who supposedly care deeply about it when it's so easy to just look it up and do it right?
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Sep 12, 2019 05:19
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Tiggum posted:That's exactly the point. Why are there so many incorrect drawings of the American flag by people who supposedly care deeply about it when it's so easy to just look it up and do it right? because they don't care deeply, that's the secret.
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Sep 12, 2019 05:38
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Patrick Spens posted:Neo-nazis love American History X. Does that say anything about its quality? My only beef with this movie, besides idiots who like it for the wrong reasons is Ethan Suplee's awful awful song that gets caught in your head. Everything else seems to come from an honest place describing reactionary racism on Venice Beach and how it has consequences for everyone. Is there some kind of loving edited version where the Lincoln quote at the end gets cut? I'm sure some people masturbate to the curb stomping scene but that doesn't make me any less fond of the movie in general. It's just like a disgusting scene and part of why I don't watch it anymore. That and the Battle Hymn of the Republic as sung by an idiot.
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Sep 12, 2019 05:46
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I personally rather like Snow Patrol as a band. Their music is rather mass market and you can't dance to it, but it does make me feel happy when I listen. Also none of the people in the band are horrible rape-monsters, which is great considering the state of music in general.
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Sep 12, 2019 08:10
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veni veni veni posted:Despite it's ultimate conclusion, I've always found that movie to be weirdly flattering to Neo-nazis. If you only look at its plot, it's an anti-Nazi movie, but if you look at its imagery (black guy getting his head kicked in), the things it's fascinated with (including a magical black man straight from mid 20th century racist fiction), it's pretty suspect. It's the same with The Sound of Music: apparent anti-Nazi movie that portrays the Nazis as effete intellectuals foreign to an "organic" rural environments that actual Nazis would have loved. Sunswipe posted:Have you seen the film? I have, it's a straight up glorification of the yuppie lifestyle. It goes against its own plot by the way it depicts that. This is very common in Gen X type movies like the Tarantino ones, Fight Club, Lock Stock, American Psycho etc. Shibawanko has a new favorite as of 08:31 on Sep 12, 2019 |
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Sep 12, 2019 08:27
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Shibawanko posted:Who likes what and for what reason matters for whether or not something is good, or at least is a very good indicator for its quality. you already hosed up, ever heard of gordon gecko? edit: holy poo poo what happened to this thread while i was gone? ever hear of The Producers? it has a musical in it called "Springtime for Hitler", i think thats pretty nazi-philiac if you ask me 
spit on my clit has a new favorite as of 22:07 on Sep 12, 2019 |
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Sep 12, 2019 22:01
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spit on my clit posted:you already hosed up, ever heard of gordon gecko? There is a reason I trust that springtime for Hitler is a joke but not other things
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Sep 12, 2019 22:29
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pray tell, what reasons would those be, oh mighty wise one
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Sep 12, 2019 22:46
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Shibawanko posted:I have, it's a straight up glorification of the yuppie lifestyle. It goes against its own plot by the way it depicts that. This is very common in Gen X type movies like the Tarantino ones, Fight Club, Lock Stock, American Psycho etc.
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Sep 12, 2019 22:47
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spit on my clit posted:pray tell, what reasons would those be, oh mighty wise one *bows* there is actually zero difference between good and bad things. you imbecile, you loving moron.
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Sep 12, 2019 22:55
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:*bows* thanks doc
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Sep 13, 2019 00:05
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Shibawanko posted:More concrete example: let's take a popular movie, like American Psycho. This movie is supposed to be a critique of a sort of 80's Donald Trump type businessman and the murders are ostensibly a metaphor for destructive inhuman greed. This sounds okay as a premise, but hold up because this movie is also hugely popular with chuds and creeps who have Patrick Bateman in a raincoat avatars. This isn't because it's a good movie that gets appropriated by bad people, it's because the movie already incorporates this creepy torture porn angle that's really where its main focus lies (the book is worse, of course, but not as well known). The people whom it ultimately appealed to tell you something about its true nature, without even necessarily having to see the movie itself. I''m confused. Have you read the book? Are you saying the movie and the book are both bad for the same reasons, but the book is even worse? Because that might be the dumbest opinion in the thread so far. IMO the movie is not very good, because it misses like 90% of the nuance and ends up being just a watered down version of the murder porn. And even there it fails, because it's watered down so the shock factor is gone, and the intentionally pornographic, unreliable, 1st person narrative Bateman is giving in the book is not conveyed properly.
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Sep 15, 2019 06:45
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Edit: wrong thread
veni veni veni has a new favorite as of 20:12 on Sep 15, 2019 |
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Sep 15, 2019 09:23
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Space is interesting, rockets are pretty boring. The opposite opinion seems to be more common. I'm interested in the actual phenomena of space and physics but I hardly care if a human being sets foot anywhere, or whether some rocket launched or whatever, that doesn't interest me at all. The black hole picture, or images of Titan's surface are much more interesting to me than a picture of astronaut #3982 floating around the ISS or news about some stupid Musk rocket.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:18
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what the gently caress do you think gets us to getting pictures of these things? it takes effort to make the poo poo that gets the cameras out there, and recognition is deserved for the rockets and who made them
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Sep 17, 2019 19:29
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spit on my clit posted:what the gently caress do you think gets us to getting pictures of these things? it takes effort to make the poo poo that gets the cameras out there, and recognition is deserved for the rockets and who made them Don't care.
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Sep 17, 2019 19:33
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The Virgin Space Shuttle versus the Chad Venera 9
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Sep 17, 2019 19:37
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I think space is cool and that's precisely the reason I want humans to annex everything up there. Just conquer the poo poo out of it.
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Sep 17, 2019 19:59
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Shibawanko posted:Don't care. wanker
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Sep 17, 2019 20:04
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spit on my clit posted:wanker Why do I need to care about rockets? I am not interested in rocket engineering. Only the object of study is interesting to me.
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Sep 17, 2019 20:36
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spit on my clit posted:what the gently caress do you think gets us to getting pictures of these things? it takes effort to make the poo poo that gets the cameras out there, and recognition is deserved for the rockets and who made them Recognition is one thing, like I doubt anyone doesn't think the people who built the Hubble and put it into space and have maintained it were excellent at their jobs and made a huge contribution to the field....but that doesn't make the details of how they did it interesting to people who find what they observe more interesting. It's not even that uncommon of an opinion at a professional level. Try and tell a theorist about the technical specifications of some telescope or rocket and their eyes will likely glaze over until you go away.
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Sep 17, 2019 23:31
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In fact that’s every episode of the Big Bang Theory.
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Sep 18, 2019 00:47
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