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K8.0 posted:Always play on experimental. Also there's no reason you can't just keep playing with the new features, Factorio save portability is also excellent. even better!
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Jan 15, 2021 01:50
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Quite annoying bug in the latest experimental: you can't place ghosts outside the player's reach distance. Workaround is to install some kind of reach mod until it's patched.
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Jan 15, 2021 16:35
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Tesla was right posted:I believe it's because normal loaders (that krastorio and deadlock's loaders use) are a single Loader entity, whereas miniloaders are a pair of very fast inserters and some belt that all get placed together. Now Im wondering why Wube didnt have loaders work on train o:
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Jan 15, 2021 19:42
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Created my first beaconed factory, a steel smeltery  Maybe from memory, I'm genuinely not sure; I think I saw a layout for smelting like this somewhere
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Jan 15, 2021 20:36
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Ciaphas posted:Created my first beaconed factory, a steel smeltery
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Jan 15, 2021 20:52
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Beacon your most expensive products and factories first. Steel is actually the least efficient item in the game to use modules with, second only to rocket fuel in its inefficiency
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Jan 15, 2021 21:23
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I know some people here have done modding--do any of you know why setting hidden_from_player_crafting on a recipe wouldn't actually work? In testing (trying to set this on anything that isn't actually hand craftable to clean up the menus when using larger mods) some random recipes are still visible even though they show my mod having touched the recipe and nothing after it.
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Jan 15, 2021 21:46
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VictualSquid posted:you need to move your beacons one tile to the left or right. It will improve performance by almost 1/3. I see! Neat. M_Gargantua posted:Beacon your most expensive products and factories first. Steel is actually the least efficient item in the game to use modules with, second only to rocket fuel in its inefficiency I mostly chose to do it 'cos I needed a shitload of steel at the time  Worse, as beacons came online, like half the steel-side furnaces were starved of plates; was right confused why, before I remembered that's kinda how multiplication works 
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Jan 15, 2021 21:58
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Ciaphas posted:I see! Neat. Remember that it's most cost-efficient to beacon your highest-tier items first, both in resources and energy requirements. Obvious stuff is your rocket silo, rocket control parts, blue circuits, etc. But if you in particular have a steel supply problem you could prod module the high-tier items you're making that need a ton of steel, which could ease some of the downstream demand. But of course the real answer is to make more iron mines, more iron smelters, and more steel smelters. The factory must grow.
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Jan 15, 2021 23:10
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Taffer posted:Remember that it's most cost-efficient to beacon your highest-tier items first, both in resources and energy requirements. Obvious stuff is your rocket silo, rocket control parts, blue circuits, etc. But if you in particular have a steel supply problem you could prod module the high-tier items you're making that need a ton of steel, which could ease some of the downstream demand.   Good point about upstream vs downstream, too, that should improve things
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Jan 15, 2021 23:11
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The number of red undergrounds you're using might be part of your iron drain as well. The design you have there is very space efficient, but takes a shitload of iron. If you find yourself really space constrained on mass-produced items like plates, it's probably time to move their production out of your main base where you can just place down 1000 smelters and train the products to your base.
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Jan 15, 2021 23:16
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Taffer posted:The number of red undergrounds you're using might be part of your iron drain as well. The design you have there is very space efficient, but takes a shitload of iron. If you find yourself really space constrained on mass-produced items like plates, it's probably time to move their production out of your main base where you can just place down 1000 smelters and train the products to your base. Space in Factorio may be the easiest resource to acquire under most circumstances. Spread out. Make your factory creep along and pave the landscape.
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Jan 15, 2021 23:20
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Nth Doctor posted:Space in Factorio may be the easiest resource to acquire under most circumstances. YMMV ;-) I inevitably go through cycles of "this should be pleanty of space," followed by "how can I get [X] over there," followed by spaghetti workaround, followed by "oops, I broke that spaghetti section." Nth Doctor posted:Spread out. Make your factory creep along and pave the landscape. /quote
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Jan 15, 2021 23:34
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Taffer posted:The number of red undergrounds you're using might be part of your iron drain as well. The design you have there is very space efficient, but takes a shitload of iron. If you find yourself really space constrained on mass-produced items like plates, it's probably time to move their production out of your main base where you can just place down 1000 smelters and train the products to your base. I like it anyway 'cos it looks cool  (also I have plenty of iron, it's steel where I'm suffering)
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Jan 16, 2021 00:16
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Wow I should have gone to experimental much sooner, the new way belt-dragging etc. are controlled is brilliant
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Jan 16, 2021 18:44
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So has anyone seen Dyson Sphere Program? Apparently coming into EA in a few days. Yet another early-access title building on the "build huge poo poo" genre.
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Jan 18, 2021 04:37
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Mod idea: toggle switch for the “no power” icon, or maybe make it not flash and instead be a static icon adjacent to, say, the recipe icon or something. Usually I put power in last when building and it’s so distracting to have the constant flashing.
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Jan 18, 2021 20:00
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DelphiAegis posted:So has anyone seen Dyson Sphere Program? Apparently coming into EA in a few days. Yet another early-access title building on the "build huge poo poo" genre. Now that I've seen this I'm almost certainly picking it up after I finish the descriptive copy on the Steam page and take a look at what the angriest reviews are complaining about, thanks!
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Jan 18, 2021 20:19
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Yeah I’m probably gonna try that when it comes out. Finally managed to build a spaceship in space exploration and it really rules. It’s remarkably easy to use and possible if somewhat annoying to automate. It was also hidden behind, if you play at the rate that my friend and I did, like tens of hours of work after you start building a space platform. Christ. The way the space sciences work in spacex is a little weird. The production chains are consistent in a satisfying way with each other but there’s a lot of specific buildings that (so far) do one or two things only. Plus there’s four basic kinds of science, and each has four levels, and each level reuses outputs from previous levels, and there’s this “significant data” resource that they all use that you unlock more efficient recipes for that combine the outputs of different kinds of science, and each sciences primary output (“insights”) has a low prod one you can do with level 1, a better one with 1 and 2, and so on. Meanwhile with 16 different kinds/levels of science (basic science, too, there’s other kinds you can only do once you finish all 16) it feels like most of the time you finish setting up production of a given level/kind your reward is... being able to research and set up the next level/kind. This isn’t always true, there’s specific breakpoints that give you cool toys - like with materials 1 and astronomics 3 you can build spaceships which make travel insanely easier - but I didn’t really get anything cool until I’d built all of that. In vanilla, getting a new kind of science unlocks a huge amount of stuff, and that isn’t true here. So it’s hugely backloaded, but the backloaded stuff seems really cool. Be aware if you want to try it out though it’s legit gonna be 100 hours before you get a spaceship, and you can’t halfass your main ground base because the space base requires huge amounts of resource deliveries. Also the mod author is a huge dingus who does the thing where he marks other mods incompatible because he feels they’re “imbalanced” and builds in all these annoying mechanics like bot attrition that are part a way to differentiate planets and part him being personally mad at the aesthetics of a bot heavy base. gently caress you, fella. Also also word to the wise: idk if it’s marked incompatible or not (we hosed around with some of the mods because, see above) but don’t use schalls uranium processing with spacex, the way it changes uranium processing interacts really mechanically badly with some of the space science to the extent that you’d need 500 centrifuges and 2k uranium ore per second to make level 1 energy science packs. No bueno
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Jan 19, 2021 14:40
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Slowly getting copper, stone, and coal lines hooked into my rail net so I can start working on production outposts and railed distribution. How do people normally run their supply lines in terms of train logic? Straightforward when it's single point to single point, but balancing across many stations is the tricky one. Also wow I miss requester chests, currently unable to use them due to research and all.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:06
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SkyeAuroline posted:Slowly getting copper, stone, and coal lines hooked into my rail net so I can start working on production outposts and railed distribution. How do people normally run their supply lines in terms of train logic? Straightforward when it's single point to single point, but balancing across many stations is the tricky one. I think mostly people use mods like LTN or TSM for this, but you can do it in vanilla (easier in 1.1 though). It's mostly done by using the circuit network to disable stations until they're ready and/or by having "stackers", sets of parallel stations before the station in question where trains can wait without blocking the track.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:22
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Phobeste posted:I think mostly people use mods like LTN or TSM for this, but you can do it in vanilla (easier in 1.1 though). It's mostly done by using the circuit network to disable stations until they're ready and/or by having "stackers", sets of parallel stations before the station in question where trains can wait without blocking the track. With 1.1 you shouldn't disable stations anymore. Set the train limit to 0 instead, which prevents all the fun things that can happen when a train is already on the way to a station that is then disabled.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:31
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A vanilla 1.1 scalable dispatch based train network has you working with station names like: Stacker Iron Load Iron Unload Optionally you can move buffer storage around by having Empty Stacker and Loaded Stacker be two different things. This doubles your stacking requirements because you need parking spots for all your trains in a given stacking step just in case. But let's you keep stock super accessible (kind of bus like). A stacker is just a big parking lot of stations. The stations always only allow 1 train to distribute around all the parking spots. You will eventually have multiple Iron Load stations named exactly the same to build throughput or availability. You will eventually have multiple Iron Unload stations to accept throughput but that's later (also kind of bus like in that regard) Your route on every train serving iron is the same: (Empty) Stacker Iron Load (Full) Stacker. (Optionally also skip completely but you lose warehousing capacity) Iron Unload You set circuits conditions on the Load stations to turn off (set to 0 trains?) when there is not a train load in the loading chests. You set circuits conditions on the Unload stations to turn off when there is not space in the unloading chests to receive a train. What you get then is a dispatch from the stacker to a loading station when it's ready to load a whole train. It'll either sit at that station or move to the (loaded) stacker. When a unload station turns on a loaded train picks up the route and heads over, returning to the stacker when it's done. Fueling is probably safest done at a loading or unloading stop: if you spread yourself thin the trains will fly through stackers without stopping.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:54
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Phobeste posted:Yeah I’m probably gonna try that when it comes out. Thanks for that summary, I'm thinking about what I'm doing next in the game and I was thinking about one of the larger mods. How would you rank them in order of increasing complexity/intensity compared to the base game? I'm thinking about mods like Industrial revolution, Krastorio, Angels/bobs, seablock, space exploration, not sure if I'm missing any big ones.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:58
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zedprime posted:A vanilla 1.1 scalable dispatch based train network has you working with station names like: Thanks for the very thorough overview. I think I had all the components in my head and just didn't quite see how they fit together.
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Jan 19, 2021 16:15
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kanonvandekempen posted:Thanks for that summary, I'm thinking about what I'm doing next in the game and I was thinking about one of the larger mods. How would you rank them in order of increasing complexity/intensity compared to the base game? So of the ones I've played it goes: Krastorio 2 (a few new items, extra steps on a few things) Space Exploration (post-midgame overhaul and space shenanigans) Industrial revolution (not as complex as angelbob but has tons of intermediate crafts and a very different feel to progression. Only dipped my toes here so mostly just what I've read) Angel+bob / seablock (total overhaul to how mining and production works, many new production chains, byproducts, production chains change as you tech up) Full set of Pyanodon mods (8 hours til your first red science. 100 hours to green. I've still not hit blue on my 200+ hour bases. Complexity and scope are probably just way too much)
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Jan 19, 2021 16:24
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kanonvandekempen posted:Thanks for that summary, I'm thinking about what I'm doing next in the game and I was thinking about one of the larger mods. How would you rank them in order of increasing complexity/intensity compared to the base game? A lot of them hit pretty different areas of the game or do slightly different things. Seablock: this is basically a completely different game. In a lot of ways it's factorio: the idle clicker. You're super space constrained, you spend a lot of time waiting for landfill to build and laying out ever tighter belt arrangements. Doesn't really play well with other mods as far as I know. industrial revolution: haven't personally played 2. Played 1 and kinda hated it. Dragged out the burner phase, introduced a bunch of new material levels like bronze, brass, tin, titanium and changed the way a lot of the fundamental intermediates worked so that each of those material levels was identical. Build brass ball bearings, beams, girders, plates, ingots. Unlock tin. Build tin ball bearings, beams, girders, plates, ingots. Unlock iron. Build iron ball bearings, beams, girders, plates, ingots. Unlock steel... Literally identical, and extending the part of the game I like the absolute least. Plays well with others. Krastorio 2: Medium touch in the early game in terms of changing intermediates, adding quality of life stuff like loaders and warehouses and altering some recipes a bit. Changes really kick in as you get to yellow and purple science, with more endgame power production, recipes and modules, types of science, and endgame goals post-rocket (launching a rocket begins the endgame). Good as a "eh I don't want to play vanilla again but angel/bobs looks like too much" option. Plays well with other mods of equivalent scope like space exploration or industrial revolution. Space exploration: light/no touch in the early game. Moves rockets up to require only blue science; launching a rocket begins the midgame, where you go to space. A lot of complexity and time once you get there. You'll be building an interplanetary and eventually interstellar factory, with quality of life aids like a juiced-up map view called navigation view. Don't sign up for this unless you're willing to put like triple digit hours in the save, because that's how long it will take to get to the cool stuff - but the cool stuff is really cool. Has some annoying factors like bots crashing, meteors landing, giant lasers from space occasionally that you more or less have to accept as the cost of doing business. Heavily recommend turning up ore richness because you can kind of gently caress yourself over resource wise - Nauvis is finite, and launching rockets takes resources, so it's possible to get into a state that I did in my first save where you kinda can't get off the planet anymore whoopsie. Plays well with K2 and some other overhaul mods but really ask yourself how much you want to add early game complexity to a really back-loaded complex mod. Also the saves get really really big especially if you're scanning planets you discover, make good use of the trim surface buttons. bobs/angels: big step up in complexity throughout the game. personally bounced off it when I tried, but some people really love it. More intermediates, more byproducts, starting earlier in the tech tree - think ore having to go through 4 buildings to get to plates. Played it a little bit and kinda bounced off but I enabled (stupidly, in retrospect) some option like "complex construction" or something that requires weird frame intermediates for buildings and means you can't actually pick up buildings, they decompose to intermediates when they do. Don't do this. Doesn't really play well with other big mods I think. pyanodon's: bobs/angels turned up to 11. Intermediates and byproducts all over the goddamn place. 99999 different buildings each used for not very many things. Sloooowwww, it will take you forever to automate. Somewhere earlier in this thread is someone being proud of automating green science after only like 30 hours in the save. I think the biggest offender here is pyanodon's petrochem and py alien life, if you don't use those in particular it may be just on the level of bobs/angels. Those are just the ones I've tried, by far sunk the most time into K2 (and version 1, now called krastorio legacy) and space exploration. There are also other big ones like 5dim or xandermod that I haven't tried but look kinda cool, xandermod especially (but it's early in development) looks like it's trying to put a sheen of "realism" over things which is cool but may end up turning into a pyanodon's level of wtf is going on given that in real life production chains are uh Quite Complex. There's also Yuoki which adds basically entirely parallel sets of production chains that are very complex but can give you nice stuff like really really effective (and sometimes downside-free, which feels a bit cheaty) modules, power armor with fuckoff huge inventory and equipment grids, better equipment, roboports with a way bigger radius (but with a construction radius that's only like 2 tiles bigger than its logistic radius, so you can't do what you do with normal roboports and have bots build the next one in the chain without having them overlap a lot which is VERY triggering), faster bots with bigger inventories, resource transmutation/resources from power, assemblers with like 10 or 20 build speed, inserters that can handle an entire blue belt of resources with like 2 of them, a lot of stuff basically on a rule-of-cool basis rather than an eye towards balance or whatever. This can be really overwhelming because a) it's entirely parallel, so you can get sidetracked a lot b) again based on the rule-of-cool thing the yuoki specific resources always have max size and richness for some reason and there's a bunch of them c) everything has absolutely inane names that are impossible to remember and item descriptions are not super well translated and half jokes that don't describe anything anyway d) by default there's no tech tree or anything, everything is instantly available (you can get a mod that adds one though). I'm currently several hundred hours into a k2/spacex/yuoki thing and it's pretty fun, but my friend handles all the yuoki stuff.
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Jan 19, 2021 16:30
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SynthesisAlpha posted:Full set of Pyanodon mods (8 hours til your first red science. 100 hours to green. I've still not hit blue on my 200+ hour bases. Complexity and scope are probably just way too much) Lol looks like I misrepresented you. 100 hours to green, my god
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Jan 19, 2021 16:31
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Phobeste posted:There's also Yuoki which adds basically entirely parallel sets of production chains that are very complex but can give you nice stuff like really really effective (and sometimes downside-free, which feels a bit cheaty) modules, power armor with fuckoff huge inventory and equipment grids, better equipment, roboports with a way bigger radius (but with a construction radius that's only like 2 tiles bigger than its logistic radius, so you can't do what you do with normal roboports and have bots build the next one in the chain without having them overlap a lot which is VERY triggering), faster bots with bigger inventories, resource transmutation/resources from power, assemblers with like 10 or 20 build speed, inserters that can handle an entire blue belt of resources with like 2 of them, a lot of stuff basically on a rule-of-cool basis rather than an eye towards balance or whatever. This can be really overwhelming because a) it's entirely parallel, so you can get sidetracked a lot b) again based on the rule-of-cool thing the yuoki specific resources always have max size and richness for some reason and there's a bunch of them c) everything has absolutely inane names that are impossible to remember and item descriptions are not super well translated and half jokes that don't describe anything anyway d) by default there's no tech tree or anything, everything is instantly available (you can get a mod that adds one though). Yuoki is no joke my favorite of the "big" mods (though I mostly do angel+bob+yuoki where it's kind of a side show) just because nothing makes any sense and it's clearly just the author having a ton of fun with whatever the hell is going on. Why yes, I do enjoy generating advanced sciences by shipping fish through a stargate, where I am then limited by how fast I can get rid of the like 100 merchant signs per second that generates, but it's okay because you can turn those into mighty domination symbols of the cult of profit at a cost of 20k per (I think). And then eventually you shoot those when you have too many. I want to love space exploration but all the nonsense Earandel foists on you can go straight to hell. I love that robot attrition cheerfully advertises "you can set the rate almost to zero", as if setting it to actually zero would be impossible and not him just changing a value in settings.lua. Though given AAI Industry's fairly awful design decisions that probably shouldn't have been a surprise. I should see if I can jam Industrial Revolution in there too next time.
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Jan 19, 2021 16:42
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power crystals posted:Yuoki is no joke my favorite of the "big" mods (though I mostly do angel+bob+yuoki where it's kind of a side show) just because nothing makes any sense and it's clearly just the author having a ton of fun with whatever the hell is going on. Why yes, I do enjoy generating advanced sciences by shipping fish through a stargate, where I am then limited by how fast I can get rid of the like 100 merchant signs per second that generates, but it's okay because you can turn those into mighty domination symbols of the cult of profit at a cost of 20k per (I think). And then eventually you shoot those when you have too many. quote:I want to love space exploration but all the nonsense Earandel foists on you can go straight to hell. I love that robot attrition cheerfully advertises "you can set the rate almost to zero", as if setting it to actually zero would be impossible and not him just changing a value in settings.lua. Though given AAI Industry's fairly awful design decisions that probably shouldn't have been a surprise. Yeah this is really annoying. Same with customizing planet size and richness (it limits you on how nice you can make nauvis). Cmon man just let me change it who cares. A lot of it ends up being fine in practice if you build big enough - who really cares if robots crash occasionally when you automated making them and putting them in roboports to maintain a certain number of robots in the network, and have automated repair packs to fix any damage they cause - but that just means it's annoying for no gameplay gain at all since I would have done that anyway. Plus if you really like yuoki you're out of luck with SX since yuoki is explicitly marked incompatible, since according to earendel it's "just too imbalanced" (my friend and I just modified the info.json to take it out lol)
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Jan 19, 2021 16:54
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Phobeste posted:(my friend and I just modified the info.json to take it out lol) Yeah this is what I did the one time I tried space exploration (until I decided I hated meteors too much). Struck basically every "incompatible" line and the requirement for robot attrition and what do you know everything worked just fine.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:05
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We haven't had a meteor strike actually. I think it's broken because we installed the mod after we'd already started the save. I'm Ok With This
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Jan 19, 2021 17:11
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I was okay until one managed to hit a train and split it in half by destroying the middle wagon and oh man did that cause exciting problems everywhere. While I'm here, do any of yall use Concreep? I have a version I rewrote for myself which performs better and supports mod tiles but I can't decide if actually releasing that would be uncouth (concreep is MIT licensed so it's "legal" but I have no idea what the community is like there).
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Jan 19, 2021 17:16
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We use concreep in that big save but mostly keep it disabled because it really is cripplingly slow once your base gets big enough. IMO try and get in touch with the mod author and offer to upstream your changes, looks like he's got a discord.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:19
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power crystals posted:Yuoki is no joke my favorite of the "big" mods (though I mostly do angel+bob+yuoki where it's kind of a side show) just because nothing makes any sense and it's clearly just the author having a ton of fun with whatever the hell is going on. Why yes, I do enjoy generating advanced sciences by shipping fish through a stargate, where I am then limited by how fast I can get rid of the like 100 merchant signs per second that generates, but it's okay because you can turn those into mighty domination symbols of the cult of profit at a cost of 20k per (I think). And then eventually you shoot those when you have too many.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:22
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Thanks for the replies, both you and Phobeste, sounds like I'm starting a space exploration game soon. I might want to see if there's a way to deal with the annoying parts though.
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Jan 19, 2021 18:22
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kanonvandekempen posted:Thanks for the replies, both you and Phobeste, sounds like I'm starting a space exploration game soon. I might want to see if there's a way to deal with the annoying parts though. You can set all of the settings to have ludicrously high intervals or barely exist in terms of robot attrition/meteors/ect, and you can remove robot attrition as a required mod by editing the info file an it won't break anything.
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Jan 19, 2021 18:28
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kanonvandekempen posted:Thanks for the replies, both you and Phobeste, sounds like I'm starting a space exploration game soon. I might want to see if there's a way to deal with the annoying parts though. Meteors are certainly annoying but can be turned way down and then defeated with a small diversion of resources and power with defence installations. Coronal mass ejections can be turned off completely. Maybe I don't use enough bots but with 700ish logistic bots in my network I don't really notice attrition, at least on Nauvis. I get that the fact that it's forced upon you is unsavory, but you just gotta embrace it and dive in.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:10
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Got my first win this morning! Only took several years and a dozen or so factories to do it   And now that I have a constant resource sink running again... the factory must grow
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Jan 20, 2021 18:59
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Ciaphas posted:Got my first win this morning! Only took several years and a dozen or so factories to do it Congrats! It's a great feeling when it finally happens.
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Jan 20, 2021 19:00
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