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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Now John using the Kamehameha wave is canon. I have to watch this every time its posted. Its one of those infectious videous you cant avoid.
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Sep 30, 2012 08:19
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It's kinda hard to tell from just a few frames, but as fired up as John is right now, Jack just seems... distracted.
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Sep 30, 2012 09:09
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FronzelNeekburm posted:It's kinda hard to tell from just a few frames, but as fired up as John is right now, Jack just seems... distracted. He probably still thinks some psycho mailwoman with the same powers he does that has been chasing him for 2 years now is a bit more dangerous and in need of more focus than some psycho kid that just woke up.
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Sep 30, 2012 09:16
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FronzelNeekburm posted:It's kinda hard to tell from just a few frames, but as fired up as John is right now, Jack just seems... distracted. "Man, who is this guy and what's his beef? Looks kinda familiar, though."
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Sep 30, 2012 09:33
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GrizzlyCow posted:I'm curious why PM doesn't use the Green/Red Miles on Jack. As it already been established, you cannot escape the Miles. Also, the thing can destroy an Universe. Assuming she has the same destructive power (instead of an opposite, creative one); my bet would be that she actually cares about not causing collateral damage. Kazy posted:You must have missed Hussie's tweet declaring all ships canon The way I interpret this is to say that all the battleships in the Dersite and Prospitian fleets are named things like John  Rose, Nepeta Equius, Everybody Eridan and so on.jonjonaug posted:Who cares, he can't actually die no matter what right now since he's asleep. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Sep 30, 2012 |
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Sep 30, 2012 10:32
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Are those Gushers flying out with every strike?
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Sep 30, 2012 10:33
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Nah, I don't think so.
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Sep 30, 2012 11:34
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Yeah, they're just video game You Blocked An Attack! sparks or something of the sort. Similar effects were seen here - I don't think they're terribly meaningful other than that. It's quite likely that they appear in other scenes, I just checked that one because of the "Jack fighting someone who is wielding a Vriska-related weapon" connection.
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Sep 30, 2012 11:42
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I think you could tell a compelling story where Jack Noir has a change of heart. After all, his interaction with the kids and parents lasted for only several days, while his flight from PM has been two years. I mean, no one would forgive him, but he might think about things differently.
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Sep 30, 2012 11:45
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Bobulus posted:I think you could tell a compelling story where Jack Noir has a change of heart. After all, his interaction with the kids and parents lasted for only several days, while his flight from PM has been two years. Where can you possibly go, psychologically, from Bec Noir? His whole motivations right now just seems to be "destroy everything!", he bounces across universes and dimensions and the only thing you can be sure of is he will try to slaughter whatever he finds there. He doesn't even seem to want to rule or anything, I mean he blew up troll Derse and killed anyone he came across on the Battlefield even after WV's rebellion. Jack Noir's motivations in general are kind of hard to pin down. Would all of them start exploding planets if they could, or is Bec Noir particularly deranged, maybe from the ring or something? What do they want out of life besides not having to be arch-agent any more and killing the black queen? The constant stabbing thing is funny and all but it kind of makes it hard to pin down a character that's anything other than a psycho murderer.
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Sep 30, 2012 14:37
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Dolash posted:Where can you possibly go, psychologically, from Bec Noir? His whole motivations right now just seems to be "destroy everything!", he bounces across universes and dimensions and the only thing you can be sure of is he will try to slaughter whatever he finds there. He doesn't even seem to want to rule or anything, I mean he blew up troll Derse and killed anyone he came across on the Battlefield even after WV's rebellion. A character that's a game construct and a chess analogue doesn't necessarily have to be anything other than a psycho murderer, although I agree in wanting some more development for the different Jacks.
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Sep 30, 2012 15:05
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He's going to somehow make it back to Jade's side where he will be good dog, best friend once more.
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Sep 30, 2012 15:35
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Dolash posted:Where can you possibly go, psychologically, from Bec Noir? His whole motivations right now just seems to be "destroy everything!", he bounces across universes and dimensions and the only thing you can be sure of is he will try to slaughter whatever he finds there. He doesn't even seem to want to rule or anything, I mean he blew up troll Derse and killed anyone he came across on the Battlefield even after WV's rebellion. He is the physical manifestation of hate ( ). I'm not sure if he really needs any clear motivations. The way I see it, he just wants to destroy. Two different Jacks have already destroyed their respective universes.
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Sep 30, 2012 15:38
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Doug Rattman posted:He is the physical manifestation of hate ( Yeah, the whole reason Bec Noir is such a walking (flying, teleporting) disaster is because Jack is a construct of Sburb programmed specifically for self-serving chaos and destruction, so when you give him phenomenal cosmic power then you get destruction on a phenomenal cosmic scale. The one glimpse we get into his psyche post-prototyping says outright that murdering things is his sole form of recreation and gosh darn it, plain old stabbing doesn't cut it anymore when you're a god. Presumably the only reason Spades Slick was able to do anything constructive was because he had the rest of his crew keeping him in check. Then they disappeared, and look what happened, he ended the universe again. For that same reason, Jack is and always has been sort of a dead end of a character. Hussie said himself that after seizing the ring, he existed not for his personality but for his purpose as this constant, looming threat that the kids always labored under, to the point where he initiated the final death of their universe and effectively started the "countdown" to Cascade. Now that his task is done and Lord English has supplanted his role in the story, him being casually eviscerated in the Furthest Ring among one of his rampages' frozen remains wouldn't be that bad a conclusion to his arc.
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Sep 30, 2012 15:59
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Indecisive posted:He's going to somehow make it back to Jade's side where he will be good dog, best friend once more. This is what I really hope for, but that I think will never happen. That at the end, once Jack is vanquished once and for all, something will happen with PM and Jack's rings and they will begin to start to spit out (figuratively, not literally) everything the kids' kernels were prototyped with as the orbs on the ring disappear one by one. The harlequin doll goes, Rose's tentacle doll, Dave's dead crow with a lovely katana through it, and finally Bec. Because Bec is good dog, best friend.  (and maybe all that other stuff like Nana's ashes, a doomed offshoot Dave, Jade's dead dream self, and Jaspers's body.)
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Sep 30, 2012 16:30
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And so we're up to $1,900,000 for the Kickstarter with four days to go. Bets on whether they'll make it to the big two million?
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Sep 30, 2012 17:42
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normal contact posted:And so we're up to $1,900,000 for the Kickstarter with four days to go. Bets on whether they'll make it to the big two million? Seems likely. Don't Kickstarters often get a boost at the end?
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Sep 30, 2012 17:46
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He should gently caress with people on the last day and make whatever the next unlockable tier that they will never be able to reach in time "Bonus side story: Nepeta Quest".
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Sep 30, 2012 18:10
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"I will draw a short comic with your ship of choice"
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Sep 30, 2012 18:16
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Honestly, if he plays it carefully, makes the $2,500,000 stretch goal really interesting, and adds another pak type, then I can see him making it. (Especially with the subsequent two weeks of Paypal pledges.)
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Sep 30, 2012 19:35
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If John does in fact beat Jack here (it doesn't much matter whether it's fatal or not, because PM will presumably finish the job), then the question becomes: what then? Will the meteor riders witness two super-prototyped carapaces fly into a bubble slightly out of their way, but only one fly out? What will they assume it was that finally did him in? Will they panic and go off course on the assumption that Lord English himself is closing in on them? Hm. Would a perfect roll on that hammer be enough to crack space?
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Sep 30, 2012 21:03
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Dolash posted:Where can you possibly go, psychologically, from Bec Noir? His whole motivations right now just seems to be "destroy everything!", he bounces across universes and dimensions and the only thing you can be sure of is he will try to slaughter whatever he finds there. He doesn't even seem to want to rule or anything, I mean he blew up troll Derse and killed anyone he came across on the Battlefield even after WV's rebellion. Have people forgotten the Midnight Crew intermission already? Much like uu, it was a rather slick(pun not intended) way to sneak in characterization of a major villian without us even knowing it(at the time). Bec Noir was going crazy early on with the thought of what his eventual boredom will bring, wondering what he would do when he had nothing left to destroy. With the Troll session Jack who would become Slick, we saw what DID happen when he had nothing left to destroy. The fact that a Dersite had the willpower and means to build an entire city and pretty much run it, is pretty impressive. Jack and Slick have different circumstances and years between them, but they're still the same person, so to say that Jack is a total dead end in motivation is just slightly off. He may just need time to grow more motivation, and while he did all his Godly Temper Tantrum killing and destroying in the span of 24 hours, now he's already had a few years. Granted, most of them spent with less thinking and more fighting retreat, but still. Plus, if one wants to go the exceptionally cheesy route, maybe Jack's ring-enforced puppy love for Jade might teach him something about positive feelings at some point. (Alternately, his fascination with PM, but I'm not sure anything will come of that since it looks like PM's not going to stop being mad at him anytime soon for murdering her friends and kingdom.) If the primary cast of characters is able to grow during our three year intermission, and this story is focused upon that sort of thing, then I won't necessarily count Jack out just yet. I feel like he's been at a point now where he might either evolve a bit as a character, or die, and while I'm not too optimistic, I do believe the potential could be there. Midnight Raider fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Sep 30, 2012 |
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Sep 30, 2012 21:39
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I feel like existing characters interacting with other existing characters in a situation where it's debatable whether or not they can do any permanent damage to eachother isn't really going to bring about any great significance on the story. Dream bubbles can contain many people however, and I stand by my previous prediction that calliope is out there somewhere, just waiting to be discovered. Jack noir has no personal motivations - at one point he may well have had them, but his meteoric rise to power and insane destructive acts (going from killing a battlefield full of soldiers to killing an entire loving multiverse in less than 24 hours) seems to have scrubbed them clean and now he only really exists to destroy. If he remains relevant to the story, it will not be as a character but as a weapon. The fighting dogs are just begging to be recruited by a higher power, the question is who's gonna be the one to hold their leashes? Will calliope convince them to stay and be her guardians? Will caliborn bring them to heel using his insane DO YOU WANT TO PLAY A GAME manipulation skills? Will lord english enslave them as he has done with so many other characters, forcing them to do his own bidding? Will the condense use her immense psychic troll powers to brainwash them into fighting alongside her, as she has done with GCAT? Hell, maybe jade will jump into the dream bubble along with john, and both of the dogs will jump at the opportunity to provide her with more canine loyalty. And it's not like the two dogs can be split up. They're of exactly equal power, neither of them has the combat advantage over the either. They can't be pitched against eachother because, as we've seen for the last two years, it will be an eternal stalemate not unlike that of the two kings on the unprototyped battlefield. In order to have any significance as a fighting force, they will have to be recruited together, or not at all.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:43
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Rooreelooo posted:Dream bubbles can contain many people however, and I stand by my previous prediction that calliope is out there somewhere, just waiting to be discovered. This isn't even a prediction, it's an explicitly stated plot point. The whole reason Lord English is massacring his way across the Furthest Ring is to locate and destroy Calliope's ghost, thereby removing the last possible threat to his power. There's also a decent chance that Calliope is actually sealed in the very same dreambubble that the horrible Beta Trolls are in, since Kurloz's sealed zone contained a Sarswapagus and the Crowbar right next to one another.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:53
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Rooreelooo posted:And it's not like the two dogs can be split up. They're of exactly equal power, neither of them has the combat advantage over the either. They can't be pitched against eachother because, as we've seen for the last two years, it will be an eternal stalemate not unlike that of the two kings on the unprototyped battlefield. In order to have any significance as a fighting force, they will have to be recruited together, or not at all. I'm going to disagree here, and here's why. The last two years haven't been a very good example of what would happen if they tried to fight at all. They were spent with one party retreating. That's not a fight, that's a chase. They're different things. Additionally, while your claim about them having exactly equal power is true, that is ultimately meaningless, because they don't necessarily have exactly equal skill, which becomes incredibly important when neither party can overpower one another. Also, they can be split up just fine. They're opposing forces, but also separate characters. It's entirely possible that Jack will wind up working with the Condesce while PM works with the kids, retaining their opposite forces. To bring it back to the two kings, it makes no sense that you would be able to recruit the Black and White kings to the same side. They're at war with one another.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:53
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I don't think those dice will be so fortunate without Lady Luck to blow on them. Edit: haha, unless Jack n' John wandered into Beta Vriska's dream.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:58
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Jack could try a nice sit-down and a chat, but it probably won't go anywhere productive.
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Sep 30, 2012 22:01
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Oxxidation posted:This isn't even a prediction, it's an explicitly stated plot point. The whole reason Lord English is massacring his way across the Furthest Ring is to locate and destroy Calliope's ghost, thereby removing the last possible threat to his power. That box in Kurloz' hideaway does not contain a sarswapagus. It contains a juju chest like this one, which looks nothing like the sarswapagus. (But you're right that at this point we have no reason to believe Calliope isn't somewhere out in bubble land, since there's also currently no particular reason to assume we (and Aranea) are mistaken about LE's reasons for going around smashing up bubbles; and all the objects from her room showing up in the bubble do suggest one of the two might be about to make an appearance.)
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Sep 30, 2012 22:07
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Seconding everyone who's emphasizing that Jack is just a game construct and is sorta dumb to humanize, but I wonder if these things aren't totally irreconcilable? Bec Noir's already completed his purpose and destroyed his universe; maybe his drive to destroy has been sort of washed away after accomplishing his goal? Hussie's always been careful to keep Jack kind of cutesily simple and naive despite all of the awful things he ever does, so redemption for the character isn't entirely out of consideration.
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Sep 30, 2012 22:13
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Oxxidation posted:This isn't even a prediction, it's an explicitly stated plot point. The whole reason Lord English is massacring his way across the Furthest Ring is to locate and destroy Calliope's ghost, thereby removing the last possible threat to his power. When was that stated?
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Sep 30, 2012 22:15
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It wasn't stated with full omniscient narrator's authority, if that's what you're asking - but Aranea mentioned she'd come to this conclusion during the first part of this intermission. Meenah brings it up again when she runs into Aranea in the second part (because Aranea also said she was going to look for Calliope herself, not that she's actually done much of that), but other than that I don't think it's come up; Kurloz doesn't say anything quite so specific about LE's plans, for example.
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Sep 30, 2012 22:25
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It's a pretty fair assumption. And he did say:Caliborn posted:I'M GOING TO KILL YOu IN YOuR SLEEP.
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Sep 30, 2012 22:33
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snucks posted:Seconding everyone who's emphasizing that Jack is just a game construct and is sorta dumb to humanize, but I wonder if these things aren't totally irreconcilable? Bec Noir's already completed his purpose and destroyed his universe; maybe his drive to destroy has been sort of washed away after accomplishing his goal? Hussie's always been careful to keep Jack kind of cutesily simple and naive despite all of the awful things he ever does, so redemption for the character isn't entirely out of consideration. I'm pretty sure no one would even consider forgiving Bec Noir for his past crimes. John, Dave, and Rose hate him for killing their Guardians, and the trolls hate him for loving up their victory and trying to kill them. Only Karkat could possibly be forgiving, but Bec Noir isn't his Jack. Spade Slick would be another story entirely, but I'm pretty sure Bec Noir has only one role left: a courier for the ring. Anyway, I don't think Bec Noir is done destroying. As long as there are more Bilious Slicks out there, Bec Noir has a mission, a purpose. Midnight Raider posted:Bec Noir was going crazy early on with the thought of what his eventual boredom will bring, wondering what he would do when he had nothing left to destroy. With the Troll session Jack who would become Slick, we saw what DID happen when he had nothing left to destroy. The fact that a Dersite had the willpower and means to build an entire city and pretty much run it, is pretty impressive. Jack and Slick have different circumstances and years between them, but they're still the same person, so to say that Jack is a total dead end in motivation is just slightly off. I tend to think of Spade Slick and Bec Noir as two different people. They have similar roots, but their experiences differentiate them wildly. Anyway, we don't know how much the Midnight Crew influenced Slick's constructive attitude. I like to think Diamonds Droog was one of the reasons ended doing anything other than pointlessly massacre everyone he met.
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Sep 30, 2012 22:39
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Bell_ posted:I don't think those dice will be so fortunate without Lady Luck to blow on them.
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Sep 30, 2012 23:24
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GrizzlyCow posted:I like to think Diamonds Droog was one of the reasons ended doing anything other than pointlessly massacre everyone he met. The Draconian Dignitary isn't above pointlessly massacring everybody, either.
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Sep 30, 2012 23:40
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Cat Mattress posted:The Draconian Dignitary isn't above pointlessly massacring everybody, either. Well, that wasn't intentionally pointless, just a failure to kill the targets. He's not a fan of "perfectly useless genocides".
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Oct 1, 2012 00:12
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Bongo Bill posted:Well, that wasn't intentionally pointless, just a failure to kill the targets. He's not a fan of "perfectly useless genocides". He's certainly a fan of overkill though. I remember being flabbergasted at the idea he was gonna tear Derse apart with the ring just to get Dirk, and actually arguing that he must just be doing some sort of thorough search that'll leave Derse otherwise intact. It's one of the acts that makes me think maybe the ring has a warping effect on the psyche of the wearer (which might also help explain WV's prophetic dream of wearing the ring and going nuts). What's actually quite neat about Jack Noir is how each instance of the character has been given a different narrative treatment to give us a different perspective on them as an individual. Spades Slick got the anti-hero treatment where we never seem him doing anything really offensive to us (murdering innocent people) even though in the right circumstances he still would. Spades Slick is instead unleashed toward the main villain and even given oddly sympathetic scenes with Karkat. Then there's post-scratch Jack Noir who's more of a comic relief fall-guy type who kills a whole slew of Prospitans so we get that he's a big meanie jerk but he's clearly not very important. Bec Noir, however, gets the full villain treatment. Slaughtering characters we like, being portrayed in a monstrous light, even killing members of his crew that we like or who might mitigate him, he's an unambiguous Bad Guy even though he's still the same root person. There's no way Bec Noir will be "redeemed" in any way whatsoever. His goofy murderer act is just some comic relief to offset the truly heinous poo poo he does, but he still does heinous poo poo and the story treats it as such. At best he might become someone's tool, weapon, or ally of convenience.
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Oct 1, 2012 00:28
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My bet is that Bec Noir is going to make it to Earth's alpha session, along with Spades Slick, they will be dumped into one of the unused sprite kernels as some sort of anti-Lord English super weapon. And BOY is he gonna be good at stabbing things.
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Oct 1, 2012 00:51
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I'd say Jack was disarmed, but that happened as soon as he put the ring on.
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Oct 1, 2012 01:36
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Go John, go! Now Jack has been disarmed twice! e: Beaten like Nepeta with juggling clubs.
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Oct 1, 2012 01:38
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