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So what are the odds right now? 50/50 that Jon gets revived by Melisandre vs him coming back as an Other? The more I think about it, the more I don't think he's dead for good.
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Jul 31, 2011 18:04
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Jon's death didn't have much of an impact on me; I just figured he was gonna be res'd in the next book at some point. If he's actually dead, and not warged into Ghost or about to be res'd by Mel, I'll be really, really surprised.
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Jul 31, 2011 18:07
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There is a 0% chance that Jon Snow will never be heard from again in the series. Even GRRM in an interview with EW Weekly was like, "oh, you think he's dead?" Plus it's so obvious from a literary standpoint.
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Jul 31, 2011 18:08
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I like Zelazny but some of his writing conventions are cringe-worthy. There's a scene in the first book where Corwin meets some lady or other and there's this long description of her "marble-white thighs like pillars" that's just so poorly executed that I began laughing my head off halfway through it. It's really hard for me to keep reading a book when I can't take the serious scenes seriously.  GRRM has his flaws as a writer, but at the least I never laughed during scenes like the Red Wedding or executions or the Red Viper vs. the Mountain.
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Jul 31, 2011 18:40
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Alekanderu posted:Zelazny definitely wrote better, technically speaking, but GRRM is better in other areas. Zelazny's characterisation was pitiful. Every major character spoke in the same fashion. Conrad spoke like Sam who spoke like Yamma who spoke like... I love Zelazny and Lord of Light was one of the most fun novels I have ever read, but let's not overstate his virtues.
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Jul 31, 2011 18:41
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Neurosis posted:Zelazny's characterisation was pitiful. Every major character spoke in the same fashion. Conrad spoke like Sam who spoke like Yamma who spoke like... Exactly. Sam in Lord of Light and Corwin in the Amber series, while great protagonists as such, are more or less the exact same character. GRRM is a lot better at characterization and world-building, but Zelazny had much more elegant prose.
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Jul 31, 2011 19:06
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Brannock posted:It's really hard for me to keep reading a book when I can't take the serious scenes seriously. During the prologue in ADWD I was close to throwing up though. Descriptions of some bloke warging into a female wolf and being hosed was, in my humble opinion, not a good opening. And the constant Targ 'You do not want to Awaken the Dragon!' poo poo is pretty cringeworthy and laughable.
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Jul 31, 2011 19:17
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Heteronormativity, nice. I thought the "Do not awaken the dragon" thing, since it was so obviously ridiculous, was meant to show how out of touch the Targaryens are and how little self-analysis they have.
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Jul 31, 2011 19:20
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Royality posted:During the prologue in ADWD I was close to throwing up though. Descriptions of some bloke warging into a female wolf and being hosed was, in my humble opinion, not a good opening. Wow you actually read that? What a loving furry. My friend put forth the idea that GRRM masturbates to every sex scene he writes and now I cannot shake that idea and felt incredible sceeved out the whole book.
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Jul 31, 2011 19:28
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Maybe the daggers were like theatrical ones. Jon will suddenly realise and they will all have a good laugh.
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Jul 31, 2011 19:35
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Jon is absolutely not dead, he has 3 get out clauses in the form of Ghost warging, Melisandre rezzing him or absorbing the 'otherness'.
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Jul 31, 2011 19:40
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There is also the possibility that he'll just regular-survive the stabbings. I don't think anyone's mentioned that, ironically.
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Jul 31, 2011 19:43
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Alekanderu posted:Exactly. Sam in Lord of Light and Corwin in the Amber series, while great protagonists as such, are more or less the exact same character. Ah kk, didn't know how far you extended Zelazny's flaws.  I did feel that the eponymous Jack from Jack of Shadows was a little bit better in this regard, since he seemed to move from actively avaricious to listless, which was nice for Zelazny.Also Creatures of Light and Darkness needs to be reprinted, God drat it, I haven't been able to read it since I moved away from my library which had an ancient and decaying copy. But enough divergence, time to return to the GRRM.
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Jul 31, 2011 19:46
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Neurosis posted:Ah kk, didn't know how far you extended Zelazny's flaws. http://www.amazon.com/Creatures-Light-Darkness-Roger-Zelazny/dp/0061936456/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312138429&sr=8-1
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Jul 31, 2011 19:54
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i am not so sure posted:http://www.amazon.com/Creatures-Light-Darkness-Roger-Zelazny/dp/0061936456/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312138429&sr=8-1 poo poo, last time I checked it was just a ton of bad quality used copies. Cheers.
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Jul 31, 2011 20:03
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Caufman posted:Hold up, is there any evidence that Dany really is barren aside from Mrri Maz Dur's words? Probably has something to do with her not having flow for like a year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_ovarian_failure
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Jul 31, 2011 20:14
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Rosscifer posted:Sword obviously. Need to be spoonfed anything else? Mr Crustacean posted:It was probably 'sword' and she accepted ZombieCat's demands. elron fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jul 31, 2011 |
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Jul 31, 2011 20:31
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If I recall, Brienne was given a choice between the sword or the noose or something like that by ZombieCat.
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Jul 31, 2011 20:38
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I thought maybe Brienne got killed then turned into a zombie or something. There was something off about that entire thing.
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Jul 31, 2011 20:59
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:I thought maybe Brienne got killed then turned into a zombie or something. There was something off about that entire thing.
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Jul 31, 2011 21:35
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JT Jag posted:Perhaps Brienne got killed and then Zombie Cat Zombie Life Transferred to her? Jaime did mention she looked "ten years older" or something. Maybe it was a glimmer from Thoros of Myr. In between those and Faceless Men, we can never be sure anymore if a character is really a character, unless they are in their POV. But at least Faceless Men only seem to be able to take the faces of death people. At least the "Ned got switched for a FM and survived" theory is down the drain with that one.
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Jul 31, 2011 21:46
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OperaMouse posted:At least the "Ned got switched for a FM and survived" theory is down the drain with that one. Thank God for that.
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Jul 31, 2011 21:50
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Cryle posted:Probably has something to do with her not having flow for like a year. But she's had a period within a year: "She tried to remember the last time she had bled. The last full moon? The one before? The one before that? No, it cannot have been so long as that." I'm trying to think if there was a point in ACOK or ASOS where Dany said she was not menstruating anymore.
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Jul 31, 2011 21:51
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So Dany aborted Daario's baby. That should make quite a few readers happy.
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Jul 31, 2011 21:57
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I hope Pod is ok.
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Jul 31, 2011 22:02
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KillRoy posted:I hope Pod is ok. At least someone in this thread is a decent guy. 
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Jul 31, 2011 22:03
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Neurosis posted:At least someone in this thread is a decent guy. Hey, I never forgot about Pod 
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Jul 31, 2011 22:26
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JT Jag posted:Perhaps Brienne got killed and then Zombie Cat Zombie Life Transferred to her? Jaime did mention she looked "ten years older" or something.
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Jul 31, 2011 23:03
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Iggles posted:Brienne's been beaten, eaten and hanged. I think she'd look a bit worse for wear without necessarily being a zombie. I've totally forgotten about this, when did someone try to eat her?
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Jul 31, 2011 23:40
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Biter bit her.
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Jul 31, 2011 23:42
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Royality posted:During the prologue in ADWD I was close to throwing up though. Descriptions of some bloke warging into a female wolf and being hosed was, in my humble opinion, not a good opening. Between Dany making GBS threads and miscarrying all over herself in the dirt and Tyrion nearly vomiting into a hooker's vagina, Varymyr getting his dogfuck on was one of the less barfy things in the book.
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Aug 1, 2011 00:03
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hailthefish posted:At what point did I say it was impossible? ~~``**Well one guy said "It's possible because the women in my family have had periods while pregnant" and you're all "OH don't be TOO SURE because of Wikipedia" and none of that conversation had anything to do with whether or not Dany is pregnant.++``~~ I'll rephrase that too: He said it's possible because sometimes women have periods and you said it's not possible because of Wikipedia. I agree it's extremely unlikely she is. Ecco the Dolphin posted:There is also the possibility that he'll just regular-survive the stabbings. I don't think anyone's mentioned that, ironically. This is what I think and I was gonna say it but then I got all distracted and uptight about moon blood.
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Aug 1, 2011 02:34
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Nah, was more like "Don't be too sure, because that's kinda not how it's supposed to work, here's pretty much the first google result since you're too bloody lazy to look", but you can continue to be a hypersensitive twat about being wrong if you want. Also, yeah, there's no way Jon's staying dead. Whether through Mel or through warging or through surviving, there's just no way. Brienne had a similar end-of-book cliffhanger and then reappeared without another word, and Jon's way more integral to the narrative and has way more outs, so I would be very, very amazed if he stays 'dead' much longer than the prologue. When I started reading the series I enjoyed it because characters stayed dead and everyone had deeper motivations that they were acting on. Now characters get killed off and evade any lasting death and their supposed motivations have changed course to the point I'm wondering if there actually are deeper motivations and an actual plot or if it's just on the road toward Wheel of Time bullshit.
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Aug 1, 2011 02:51
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I can't think of a single word that would say "okay hang me but then hang yourself because you took an oath not to ask me to do any service that would bring me into dishonor and also to not stand inbetween me and stannis and you're doing both right now asking me to be an assassin and hanging me, respectively" but that's clearly not what she said since she's kidnapped jaime
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Aug 1, 2011 02:53
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I wonder if Tyrion will get to the fireworks factory in the next book.Unoriginal Name posted:The majority of people who have spoken about skipping did so because they wanted to skip Dany's chapters because they are boring, awfully written trash. I think you mean Stephen "Ancient Indian Burial Ground" King. 
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Aug 1, 2011 03:06
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Its possible that people skip the Dany chapters because they find them to be horribly written and/or boring. But I guess those opinions don't count unless they actually read said chapters, and when they turn out to be indeed boring, then that opinion is also invalid for some reason? I don't skip and enjoyed the book but if an entire plotline cannot keep a reader's attention enough for them to even be bothered to read it, the author has failed as a writer, at least for a subset of readers. I'd say thats a valid point of view.
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Aug 1, 2011 03:38
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GRRM may have some problems, but no other author could make me cheer for a fat cannibal feeding other people their relatives.
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Aug 1, 2011 03:41
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bigmcgaffney posted:Its possible that people skip the Dany chapters because they find them to be horribly written and/or boring. But I guess those opinions don't count unless they actually read said chapters, and when they turn out to be indeed boring, then that opinion is also invalid for some reason? I don't think he writes these books to please everyone. In fact, that's the worst thing you could do as a writer. But yes, you need to read every chapter or your opinion holds no weight. That's like watching half of a movie, declaring it boring, then drawing your own conclusions as to its other half in terms of entertainment/quality.
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Aug 1, 2011 04:15
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Sir_Vondruke_IV posted:GRRM may have some problems, but no other author could make me cheer for a fat cannibal feeding other people their relatives. Wow, now that you write it that way I just realized the similarity between that and the Scott Tenorman South Park episode.
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Aug 1, 2011 04:17
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Just finished reading through this, so just some points: - Jon "death" didn't really felt like it, I'm expecting him to recover someway, it just didn't felt as dramatic as the other major deaths, yeah he got betrayed but I was kinda expecting it, and that _I'm marching south speech_ kinda gave it away for me. I enjoyed them a lot though, they have a lot of good moments. - Tyrion first chapters were mostly boring (pages and pages of food descriptions), and I hope they just kill that drat Penny, that gimmick got boring really fast. - I'm tired of Dany chapters, could she please just pack her things and fly to westeros or whatever ? It would be good if the first chapters of the next book would be of Meereen getting razed to the ground (Barristan can escape and get back to Westeros being awesome). - I have mixed feelings towards Aegon, but whatever comes out of it at least he is in Westeros and some action might actually be seen near the King's Landing. I also actually enjoyed some Davos chapters, that might have been a first.... As final notes I hope GRRM gives some purpose to Arya, I really liker her POV but she really should get a goal by now, I bought the English version of the book (I'm not native) and the writing was really pleasant, i had no problems reading through it and it felt fluid to me. Overall comparing with the other 5 books I'll have to say this one is around the quality of ACOK, but still very far away from ASOS. Let's hope he doesn't take 5 or 6 more years to release another book.
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Aug 1, 2011 05:19
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