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Sephyr posted:What is the alternative, though? Conceal any crime in which more than one person dies? Send spree killings down the memory hole? "What are you talking about, Timmy? Those ten desks in your classroom have always been empty and our teacher has always been Mrs. Doppelganger!" I'm not saying we should hide criminal acts at all or pretend that this sort of thing doesn't happen. It does, the public has a right to know, and without proper media coverage we can't have a debate on it. However the current 24/7 new media that exists and the constant circus with it is a mess, and this problem is not just in the attention given to the inane ramblings of mass killers and plastering them all over the TV, along with periodic interviews in the years that follow. There's a lot that is wrong with our media, the handling of crazy shooters is just part of it. Hell, the fact that Alex Jones manages to get on CNN of all places should give you an idea that the media is giving crazies too much time on the TV.
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Jan 8, 2013 15:57
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SilentD posted:
I disagree. Crazy people have political influence in our government today. The country needs to know that.
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Jan 8, 2013 15:58
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Glenn Beck spent an hour this morning trashing Alex Jones. I think he's jealous.
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Jan 8, 2013 16:10
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Fat Guy Sexting posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8rMYyegT5Y Is a summation of the argument. Not saying some loon hasn't done that, but the reults argue agaisnt it. The militia movement didn't boom after Timothy McVeigh got coverage with the OKC bombing: it was reviled and withered with amazing speed. Same goes for the manifesto-writing loon who shot up the Holocaust museum, the guy who flew a small plane into the IRS office (this one was actually forgotten quite quickly, but I think it may have been in the same week Michael Jackson died). Do they get their face on TV a lot? Yes? They are also forever attached to wrongness, evil and madness. Not really the right venue if you want exposure to salve your starving self-esteem. And yes, coverage could be less extreme. No argument there. But there's the internet and public interest, so names and details would leak very fast. Not to mention that people's speculation can be even more wild and extreme than the killers tehmselves. Can you imagine how many people would be theorizing how Muslim, jewish, nazi or Black Panther the Sandy Creek killer was if his real identity was not disclosed?
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Jan 8, 2013 16:11
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Ray and Shirley posted:I can flatly deny the idea that media coverage motivates the average viewer to take up a gun and mass murder because they want fame or a platform to speak. Unless you're a psychiatrist (preferably some kind of researcher) your denials have no bearing on whether there actually is a social component to mass shootings. quote:Loren Coleman, author of “The Copycat Effect” and a behavioral expert who has consulted on school violence for Maine state schools, argues that the recommendations prevention experts give regarding press-driven suicide contagion should apply to these types of murder-suicides as well. “Back in the ‘suicide days,’ if you put the method in the newspaper, the next series of suicide clusters exactly repeated the method,” he says. Now with mass shootings, too, he says, “we’re even having the copycat down to the type of gun.” "Average viewers" are facially irrelevant, otherwise it would be impossible to go to the store because of all the mass shootings. The idea is that people who want attention or to commit suicide tend to do it in ways that they're recently seen garner strong media attention, it's functionally the same as a suicide cluster. While I'm not saying school shootings need to be an unevent, the hours of interviews with the surviving kids and the biopics about the shooters only feed into that.
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Jan 8, 2013 16:13
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lil mortimer posted:Glenn Beck spent an hour this morning trashing Alex Jones. I think he's jealous. Not surprising. Alex Jones has constantly trashed Beck, in many cases for supposedly not being "genuine".
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Jan 8, 2013 16:20
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Paul MaudDib posted:Unless you're a psychiatrist (preferably some kind of researcher) your denials have no bearing on whether there actually is a social component to mass shootings. If everyone had to be a professional for D&D to function then this place would be a ghost town. What any of us say in this forum has no bearing on anything.
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Jan 8, 2013 16:20
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Sephyr posted:Do they get their face on TV a lot? Yes? They are also forever attached to wrongness, evil and madness. Not really the right venue if you want exposure to salve your starving self-esteem. They don't care though? I'd put good money on Anders Brevik being the most recognisable Norwegian on the planet right now, which is exactly what he wanted. It's attention in a worldwide, 24/7 storm of media, positive or negative doesn't matter.
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Jan 8, 2013 16:25
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Business Gorillas posted:Isn't openly threatening an armed revolt kind of illegal? Not if you're just some idiot making non-credible threats. You're allowed to be crazy.
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Jan 8, 2013 16:47
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Crossposting from "Republicans Rebuilding": Are there any documentaries out yet ala "Right wing america feeling wronged" on the romney/obama election? Or a sign of one being made? I feel like this election was even sweeter for that kind of vehicle because back than the anti-obama rhetoric was mostly "We dont know who he is/What if terrorism"? With just a hint of the "Non-american commie bastard" that developed over his first term. Months on and the schadenfreude is just as powerful for me as it was in november, i wonder if it will ever stop?
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Jan 8, 2013 17:15
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lil mortimer posted:Glenn Beck spent an hour this morning trashing Alex Jones. I think he's jealous. There can be only one. edit Oh god, the coverage on PrisonPlanet and InfoWars is amazing. 
Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jan 8, 2013 |
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Jan 8, 2013 17:17
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Wow, right now Rush is railing against Al-Jazeera's acquisition of Current, saying that it was bought with oil money. Not a mention of Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal owning shares in News Corp though, nope. From there he went on a rant about environmentalist wackos, touching on the tyranny of having to buy LED lightbulbs, and then claiming that global warming is a hoax. Al Gore is now an almost billionaire because of the travesty of acknowledging that oil on Earth is a finite resource, and the dumping of tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere might cause a change in the global climate. The end of the segment ended with him blurting out "Projection of a hoax!" 
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Jan 8, 2013 18:50
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Sir Tonk posted:There can be only one.  How is Alex Jones not a comedian?
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Jan 8, 2013 18:59
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Crasscrab posted:
 Maybe he is.
Thunderchops fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jan 8, 2013 |
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Jan 8, 2013 19:13
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Ray and Shirley posted:They do it because they're ill. Not because they're normal people who think they've found their "in" on fame. And I can flatly say that it's really loving ignorant to think the media circus around mass shootings does nothing to encourage future mass shootings. What do you think drives people to do these things? A sense of powerlessness and unimportance. How do you feel powerful and important at the same time? Like it's been how many years since Columbine? Over a decade and I bet you can still name the shooters. I still can and I'm terrible with names and haven't seen a direct news story on it probably since it happened. I've sure seen a lot of documentaries and other media that mentions them, though. Over and over and over again. What the media should do is publicize the names of the victims (with family permission) over and over again. Make the victims famous, not the perpetrators of the crime.
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Jan 8, 2013 19:24
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kik2dagroin posted:the tyranny of having to buy LED lightbulbs Indeed. Oh the humanity.
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Jan 8, 2013 19:24
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Sir Tonk posted:Indeed. Oh the humanity. Each LED lightbulb is 100,000 hours of tyranny.
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Jan 8, 2013 19:29
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God, that Alex Jones interview was insufferable. The guy just yells and rants. It takes a special kind of rear end in a top hat to make Piers Morgan sympathetic. Jesus Christ. "Alex...Alex...Let me...can I ask you...Alex..."
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Jan 8, 2013 19:30
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mr. mephistopheles posted:What do you think drives people to do these things? A sense of powerlessness and unimportance. How do you feel powerful and important at the same time? Can you say with certainty that this was the motive for all recent mass shootings? Or, gently caress recent, I'll settle for the majority. Tercio fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jan 8, 2013 |
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Jan 8, 2013 19:30
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Hey, remember how Glenn Beck accused us (after the Benghazi thing) of being a front for the CIA and funded by George Soros? Along with how he and others in the right wing media constantly accuse others of being 'funded by George Soros'? Well, turns out the former morning zoo shock jock is getting his opinions bought off in a political punditry version of radio DJ payola - specifically to say 'nice things' on his radio show about the astroturf political arm of the tea party, Freedomworks - to the tune of one million dollars. Not really surprising given the gold scam he and other conservative radio show hosts were involved in. But yeah - big surprise; Glenn Beck is a charlatan who is only in it for the money. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6_Dq_H1hA4 Oh, and Rush Limbaugh is getting bought off to say 'nice things' about freedomworks too. More details here: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/freedomworks-rich-donors-armey-kibbe-super-pac Also we now know who the donors to freedomworks are, thanks to leaked internal documents. Surprise surprise; it's mostly rich billionaire shitheads. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jan 8, 2013 |
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Jan 8, 2013 19:52
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BiggerBoat posted:God, that Alex Jones interview was insufferable. The guy just yells and rants. It takes a special kind of rear end in a top hat to make Piers Morgan sympathetic. Jones only has one mode: crazy.
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Jan 8, 2013 19:54
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BiggerBoat posted:God, that Alex Jones interview was insufferable. The guy just yells and rants. It takes a special kind of rear end in a top hat to make Piers Morgan sympathetic. I just saw the video finally. The first minute wasn't so bad, but then, holy poo poo...
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Jan 8, 2013 20:11
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Sir Tonk posted:There can be only one. Holy poo poo, this is the best thing ever. Is this supposed to be funny, or is this unintentional? I straight up cannot tell.
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Jan 8, 2013 20:21
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Ray and Shirley posted:Can you say with certainty that this was the motive for all recent mass shootings? Can you say with certainty that it had no impact and that these people wouldn't have committed mass shootings if it didn't mean being noticed? A lot of people feel depressed and weak. Some of those people kill themselves, and some of those people kill as many people as they can before killing themselves. What do you think is the primary determining factor between the two? Are some people just more homicidal than others or does the idea of having your name immortalized when you feel like nobody acknowledges your existence offer some appeal to people in this situation? You're never going to prove it one way or the other since mass shooters tend to kill themselves or allow themselves to be gunned down without surrendering, but I really don't get how you're having such a hard time seeing that the promise of notoriety could be a contributing factor in choosing to commit mass murder instead of just quietly killing themselves at home. Am I saying it is definitively a factor in all mass shootings? No, of course not, but it's a feasible explanation. Your explanation is "some people are just crazy and it can't be explained" which is myopic and ignores the fact that mass shootings have become more rampant in the last decade. Is the world becoming shittier or is there some other factor (mass media reportage) contributing?
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Jan 8, 2013 20:23
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SilentD posted:Like any good conspiracy though not all of these are crazy, some of them are grounded in reality. Some of these are things to be concerned about when they don't come from Alex Jones. Let's start. That's the thing behind Alex Jones, or really any ultimately successful cult-leading lunatic. Its taking something with just enough "truth" behind it that you can attach whatever bullshit you feel like. I mean, even his "legitimate" concerns are blown wildly out of proportion. There is some danger to psychotic medication, but a lot of people are helped by them. In fact, the suicide/improved quality of life ratio is so extreme the suicide factor becomes almost statistically irrelevant. Maybe some more control or less advertising influence should be asserted, but to call anti-depressants "suicide pills" is both scientifically and socially inaccurate. Same thing with a police state, there are legitimate concerns about privacy violations in the US, but cameras on the side of buildings are as far from the Nazi party as talking about politics in a beer hall. I would say what Jones does, if anything, is say things that are "true" but not necessarily things that are accurate. mr. mephistopheles posted:ignores the fact that mass shootings have become more rampant in the last decade. Is the world becoming shittier or is there some other factor (mass media reportage) contributing? I don't think it can be safely conformed to that binary. Mass shootings may be increasing (not even sure if this is accurate honestly), but also the sociological realities that allow "mass shootings" to occur are also increasing. A "mass shooting" as the media defines it is almost exclusively an object of a comfortable 1st world existence. Its a cultural "idea" not an event with historical precedence. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 8, 2013 |
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Jan 8, 2013 20:46
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BiggerBoat posted:God, that Alex Jones interview was insufferable. The guy just yells and rants. It takes a special kind of rear end in a top hat to make Piers Morgan sympathetic. Seriously. The first thought that went through my head was that there is no way I want that lunatic near a gun and that all guns should be banned if an insane, mentally deranged, rage filled nutso like him can get his hands on weapons. Ranting about revolutions and whatever ridiculous poo poo.
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Jan 8, 2013 21:14
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Gatts posted:Seriously. The first thought that went through my head was that there is no way I want that lunatic near a gun and that all guns should be banned if an insane, mentally deranged, rage filled nutso like him can get his hands on weapons. Ranting about revolutions and whatever ridiculous poo poo. This is the framing they were going for. The guy they had on right afterwards was saying exactly this.
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Jan 8, 2013 21:17
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Gatts posted:Seriously. The first thought that went through my head was that there is no way I want that lunatic near a gun and that all guns should be banned if an insane, mentally deranged, rage filled nutso like him can get his hands on weapons. Ranting about revolutions and whatever ridiculous poo poo. I liked the suggestion that him and Piers have a boxing match because hell my money would be on the 6'1" healthy guy versus the 5'8" fat dude..
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Jan 8, 2013 21:17
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McDowell posted:This is the framing they were going for. The guy they had on right afterwards was saying exactly this. Yeah, it was a bit obvious. I may disagree with tons of his opinions, but at least Penn Jilette would have been there for an actual conversation and not a circus "poke at the freak and see it screech" show. Which is likely why he wasn't invited.
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Jan 8, 2013 21:23
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Sephyr posted:but at least Penn Jilette would have been there for an actual conversation and not a circus "poke at the freak and see it screech" show. Which is likely why he wasn't invited. Yeah, but watching two ignorant blowhards pretend to be debating is less entertaining than ignorant blowhard vs. lunatic
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Jan 8, 2013 21:26
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Spacedad posted:Hey, remember how Glenn Beck accused us (after the Benghazi thing) of being a front for the CIA and funded by George Soros? Along with how he and others in the right wing media constantly accuse others of being 'funded by George Soros'? How is this not exactly the same as, and therefore not exactly as illegal as music radio payola?
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Jan 8, 2013 21:37
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ReidRansom posted:How is this not exactly the same as, and therefore not exactly as illegal as music radio payola? Payola is hiding that track playback is being done for money. And playback of tracks in "normal airtime" as opposed to "sponsored airtime" can lead to unfair competition for music which is the main reason it's barred. The same thing doesn't apply to political speech or pushing gold or whatever. Being as those are blatant advertising it's not the same thing. Incidentally, wanting to avoid prosecution for payola violations is the largest reason why big radio owners will use uniform playlists and the like now instead of allowing local talent to pick and choose tracks throughout the programming day.
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Jan 8, 2013 21:47
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Install Gentoo posted:Payola is hiding that track playback is being done for money. And playback of tracks in "normal airtime" as opposed to "sponsored airtime" can lead to unfair competition for music which is the main reason it's barred. I fail to see a meaningful distinction. When you hear Rush or Beck shilling for Heritage Foundation or Goldline or whatever, it's during commercial segments and is marked by clear breaks in the programming. That article seems to indicate (and I seem to recall based on my own listening experiences) that Freedomworks was paying to be talked up during the course of the shows' normal dialog, disguising its commercial nature.
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Jan 8, 2013 22:08
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ReidRansom posted:I fail to see a meaningful distinction. The music and broadcasting industries agreed to allow payola to be made illegal because it was bad for business. When Label A was paying to trump up their songs' airtime it was at the expense and potential lost of income of Labels B-Z. Who's losing money when Freedomworks and gold are being promoted? No one. The "payola" laws are very strictly defined to only apply to music on the radio. They didn't even apply to say MTV when MTV was still mostly music or anything.
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Jan 8, 2013 22:13
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mr. mephistopheles posted:It's also a really pretty tropical island? Not everybody is going there to bone underage prostitutes or whatever. They go there to bone underage prostitutes.
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Jan 8, 2013 22:13
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Your explanation is "some people are just crazy and it can't be explained" which is myopic and ignores the fact that mass shootings have become more rampant in the last decade. Half right. My explanation is "some people are crazy." Period. Note that this is not me saying it's all some big mystery. Also note that I've never said media hype contributes nothing to this issue. I would point the finger for mass killings at a general disregard for public mental health than I would media hype. If media hype contributes (and it does) it's the egg to the mental illness chicken.
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Jan 8, 2013 22:15
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Ray and Shirley posted:Half right. My explanation is "some people are crazy." Period. Note that this is not me saying it's all some big mystery. Also note that I've never said media hype contributes nothing to this issue. I would point the finger for mass killings at a general disregard for public mental health than I would media hype. If media hype contributes (and it does) it's the egg to the mental illness chicken. I am also reluctant to blame the media for the whole narrative either. There is something genuinely fascinating, if just on a sociological level, about these kinds of people. I know the second thought I had about Sandy Hook, after "Jesus Christ!" was "What kind of person does that?" There is an inherent curiosity about wanting to know what makes someone capable of unthinkable violence "tick".
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Jan 8, 2013 22:28
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Ok so this piece of garbage from the Washington Times... http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/6/obama-supporters-shocked-angry-new-tax-increases/?page=all#pagebreak
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Jan 8, 2013 22:42
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Lemonus posted:Ok so this piece of garbage from the Washington Times... Now vote Republican so we can get rid of your minimum wage!
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Jan 8, 2013 22:49
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Lemonus posted:Ok so this piece of garbage from the Washington Times... Yes, I too remember the GOP tirelessly fighting Obama to permanently extend the 2011 payroll tax cut. What disingenuous drivel.
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Jan 8, 2013 23:42
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