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Squizzle posted:That doesn't sound very good to me, as it's a whole lot of time, plot beats, and most likely dialogue dedicated to exposition, retcon, and setting-up-the-board jiggery pokery instead of actually moving a story along. At that stage you might as well cut out the middle man and say the terrigen mists cause mutants. Make inhumans and mutants the same thing in the MCU.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:15
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That would really go against the basic principles of the franchise. It's like saying that gays are the product of "Mutagen Liquid" getting into the water cycle.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:26
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That would really go against the basic principles of the franchise. The basic principles of the franchise are "teenagers display weird powers and are hated and feared for them, as extended puberty and prejudice metaphors" Edit: oh wait I get what you mean. I disagree that it's that big a deal tho
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Jun 18, 2016 01:29
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:puberty and racism metaphors If mutants aren't Born That Way race/sexuality metaphors don't really hold up as much though
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Jun 18, 2016 01:31
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Squizzle posted:That doesn't sound very good to me, as it's a whole lot of time, plot beats, and most likely dialogue dedicated to exposition, retcon, and setting-up-the-board jiggery pokery instead of actually moving a story along. I actually agree, I was more saying if you wanted to keep the FOX canon you more or less can with no real difficulty. Although I dunno why you'd even want to, my point more is there's really nothing in any of the X-Men movies that directly contradicts with the MCU besides Quicksilver. And any weirdness can be explained away with "Xavier/Jean Grey wiped everyone's memories of it", something both Xavier and Jean Grey have actually done numerous times.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:35
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Part of the mythos is paranoia - "Do you know what your children are?" There's the motifs of history and evolution, with mutants threatening to replace baseline humanity. Tying it all down to a singular Event would really simplify the conflict.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:35
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:
The X-Men were a lovely team up book until they were reinvented as persecuted minorities who also happened to be  teens. Their whole appeal falls apart if being a mutant is something you can elect not to be, because the whole point of the mutants is that you can't do that.Also that's like, the thing that differentiates Inhumans from mutants. There's a bunch of hay made about Inhumans being ripoff X-Men (even though they're not and they've been around for almost as long as them), but the whole appeal of the Inhumans is that in direct contrast they're a people that elects to become Inhuman (and terrigenesis can and does kill them if they're not Inhuman enough to make it through the process). Until the Terrigen mists the crystals were a closely guarded commodity and Inhumans had, after their feud with the Kree, established a very bizarre and somewhat unnerving caste system with a strict monarchy. The whole point is that the Inhumans value their genetic difference as something that makes them automatically superior to others, in contrast to the mutants being persecuted for their differences, and that's largely a function of how mutants are born with their powers while Inhumans elect to unlock them.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:45
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Part of the mythos is paranoia - "Do you know what your children are?" There's the motifs of history and evolution, with mutants threatening to replace baseline humanity. Tying it all down to a singular Event would really simplify the conflict. It also makes a cause; something you can definitively point at and say "this is why they are what they are", which is again going again the premise the sexual minority extended metaphor the X-men have become
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Jun 18, 2016 02:44
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Dominique Provost Chalkley could play Batgirl
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Jun 18, 2016 04:26
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Arctic Baldwin posted:It also makes a cause; something you can definitively point at and say "this is why they are what they are", which is again going again the premise the sexual minority extended metaphor the X-men have become Like a gene or something.
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Jun 18, 2016 04:29
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Toxxupation posted:The X-Men were a lovely team up book until they were reinvented as persecuted minorities who also happened to be TBH I didn't know becoming an Inhman was something you had to choose, I thought it was just apply mist -> die or get powers
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Jun 18, 2016 04:48
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Yeah but the mist wasn't just somewhere anyone could go.
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Jun 18, 2016 04:49
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I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm in total agreement with BotL on this.
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Jun 18, 2016 04:50
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:TBH I didn't know becoming an Inhman was something you had to choose, I thought it was just apply mist -> die or get powers Before Infinity the Terrigen crystals were tightly controlled (and super highly valued), and especially on Earth Inhuman enclaves would basically do their version of selecting their strongest warriors once every ten years/generation to be exposed to them in the vague hopes that it would continue the bloodline/strengthen it. Even with the Inhuman royals the Terrigen crystals were viewed as a prize to be hoarded and a gift only to be applied to people who "deserve it", depending on whatever nebulous definition of "deserving it" the royal family had. It's also why Black Bolt's move is viewed as so reprehensible by the rest of the royal family (although certain people have rationalized it as necessary). It's not just the fact that it elevates people into the echelon of Inhumans that various royal family members feel may not be deserved, it's that the entirety of Inhuman culture is based around the idea that being an Inhuman is an honor and a responsibility, a choice people make with full knowledge of the powers they are being gifted. I really love the Inhumans, there's so much about their books that address feudalism and "compassionate royalty" and strict caste systems and the relationship between the ruler and the ruled and what defines nationality and race that you don't really get with the X-Men. There's always been a sense of "Inhuman Man's Burden" that guides the Inhumans, the idea that terrigenesis is an inherent good that should be afforded to all sentient races to join the ranks of this galactic brotherhood that I find really fascinating. It's a very Kirby-rear end idea, possibly the most Kirby-rear end idea in all of Marvel sorta like the Fourth World and all the New Gods are on DC's side, and it's why I like them so much. The Inhumans are just so goddamn weird.
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Jun 18, 2016 05:10
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Addressing feudalism is about 400 years late mate. So is compassionate royalty for that matter
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Jun 18, 2016 05:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:Addressing feudalism is about 400 years late mate. So is compassionate royalty for that matter Yeah, we've moved on to telling myths about compassionate capitalism these days.
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Jun 18, 2016 06:19
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Wasn't there a weird labourer subclass made up of clones/failed terrigen/deviant genetic failures? The Alpha Primitives I think? How does that jive with compassion?
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Jun 18, 2016 07:30
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To be fair compassionate Monarchy or enlighten despotism was a thing more in theory than practice. You usually have to make huge exceptions for it to work.
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Jun 18, 2016 07:37
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Scaramouche posted:Wasn't there a weird labourer subclass made up of clones/failed terrigen/deviant genetic failures? The Alpha Primitives I think? How does that jive with compassion? They were a slave race made up of humans exposed to Xenogenic mists, created to free the Inhuman master race from the horrors of physical labor. IIRC the Inhumans did at some point ban making new ones, freed the existing ones, and they don't really pop up in stories anymore but I think the Inhumans lose some compassion points for being the slowest nation on earth to ban chattel slavery. burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 07:40
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SlimGoodbody posted:I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm in total agreement with BotL on this. Yeah, this feels weird. They would obviously scrap the Fox canon. It's like someone said upthread, apart from it not being the 70s, the Avengers are at a point in their history where - in the comics - mutants weren't really getting attention in their universe. Just have this be the time that the X-Men first appear publicly and upgrade mutants from "weird urban legend that probably isn't true" to "holy poo poo, they're actually real?!". Sure, it doesn't make sense that an entire population of people with such fantastic powers could conceal themselves for so long, but I can't think of a single superhero movie that could exist without a similar degree of nonsense.
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Jun 18, 2016 08:12
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They could just get Nick Fury to reveal that mutants were the result of a failed attempt to recreate the super soldier serum. 
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Jun 18, 2016 10:03
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Just add them without any explanation. That would be ideal.
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Jun 18, 2016 10:34
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The best plan would be not adding mutants. It'd be neat if they had Juggernaut, though. Juggernaut vs. the Avengers would be a great action set piece. e: And it gets the audience familiar with how dangerous big J is, so they can do a Spider-Man/Juggernaut fight.
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Jun 18, 2016 11:49
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Juggernaut isn't a mutant anyway.
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Jun 18, 2016 15:41
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God, the Inhumans loving suck
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Jun 18, 2016 15:51
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Wheat Loaf posted:They could just get Nick Fury to reveal that mutants were the result of a failed attempt to recreate the super soldier serum. We talked about this. It doesn't work if it's a juice they all drank. Except Wolverine I guess since part of his deal literally was an attempt to redo Captain America wasn't it?
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Jun 18, 2016 16:04
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SonicRulez posted:We talked about this. It doesn't work if it's a juice they all drank. Except Wolverine I guess since part of his deal literally was an attempt to redo Captain America wasn't it? Wolverine was born a mutant like any other (except he was born in like 1860 but w/e). His mutations at birth were claws made out of his own bones, heightened senses, and rapid regeneration. The Weapon X stuff was an attempt to redo Captain America by making his regeneration even better, coating his claws in metal, and then having him go around murdering people. The Ultimate X-Men on the other hand were all created from an attempt to redo Captain America so you could just use the Ultimate universe's mutant origins. Raserys posted:God, the Inhumans loving suck As someone who hasn't read much Inhumans before the modern "the Inhumans are mutants Marvel owns the film rights to" stuff, I don't necessarily disagree but I know there are are a lot of people who really like their earlier stuff so idk maybe it's good.
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Jun 18, 2016 16:39
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Part of the mythos is paranoia - "Do you know what your children are?" There's the motifs of history and evolution, with mutants threatening to replace baseline humanity. Tying it all down to a singular Event would really simplify the conflict. I get what you're saying, but even at the beginning, the sudden increase in mutants was said to be hastened by the atomic age.
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Jun 18, 2016 17:35
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Have they ever gone into how hosed up and painful it must have been for Wolverine's powers to manifest? I don't mean the first time he got his hands pierced, but like all the crazy bone shifting that had to happen to make his claws even possible.
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Jun 18, 2016 17:35
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Aphrodite posted:Have they ever gone into how hosed up and painful it must have been for Wolverine's powers to manifest? There's a great scene in X-Men: Animated Series in season 2 where the Savage Land causes everyone to lose their mutant powers. Wolverine is all like "There ain't nothing mutant about these, bub" and then screams in agony as he pops his claws.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:26
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Aphrodite posted:Have they ever gone into how hosed up and painful it must have been for Wolverine's powers to manifest? it wasn't that bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgDrIU3XpCQ
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Jun 18, 2016 18:34
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Raserys posted:God, the Inhumans loving suck why i get the feeling that whenever anyone says this it's just because #notmyxmen and not actually related to the actual merits of the inhumans, the current books of which are extremely loving better than any x-men books btw
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Jun 18, 2016 19:44
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It's the best book about incest Marvel's ever done.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:47
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Hakkesshu posted:why They are extremely lame conceptually and are horribly shoe horned. The books themselves are at best okay, they don't do anything particularly interesting but they are not bad either.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:51
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Lockjaw is way cooler than any X-men.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:45
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Lurdiak posted:Lockjaw is way cooler than any X-men. Why aren't there more dog superheros? Everyone gets excited about the first black, female, and asian comic leads, but there has yet to be a dog-centric hero.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:50
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Why aren't there more dog superheros? Everyone gets excited about the first black, female, and asian comic leads, but there has yet to be a dog-centric hero. 
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Jun 18, 2016 20:52
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I meant live-action movie star. Where is my gritty underdog reboot? What breed are they going to cast as Lockjaw? Phase 4 announcements are coming soon. Marvel needs to get on this.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:54
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I meant live-action movie star. Where is my gritty underdog reboot? What breed are they going to cast as Lockjaw? 
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Jun 18, 2016 20:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Why aren't there more dog superheros? Everyone gets excited about the first black, female, and asian comic leads, but there has yet to be a dog-centric hero. Pizza Dog, Lockjaw, Krypto (who had his own animated series), Ace, Cosmo - Just off the top of my head. Of course, technically, Dog Welder is a "Dog-Centric"
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