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BarbarianElephant posted:I don't believe black people are very happy about being completely taken for granted by Democrats, because what are they going to do, vote for the party with Jeff Sessions in? A lot of white people are convinced that black people get a completely different set of assistance than white people. I've met a couple dozen white people who swore to my face that "Obamacare" was special secret free healthcare for black people. Tons of white people really do not comprehend that the food stamps they get are the dreaded "welfare" they're so mad about black people receiving. Maybe because there's something in the ural mindset that makes you confront new information and go "well that's wrong, any opinion I don't have or fact I don't know is obviously made up," right Glowing-Fish?
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Jul 5, 2017 15:07
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:A lot of white people are convinced that black people get a completely different set of assistance than white people. I've met a couple dozen white people who swore to my face that "Obamacare" was special secret free healthcare for black people. Tons of white people really do not comprehend that the food stamps they get are the dreaded "welfare" they're so mad about black people receiving. When white people benefit from social welfare programs, it's justified because they "paid into it", while if minorities take advantage, they are leeches. It's real hard to look in the mirror when you suddenly become the thing you railed against. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Maybe because there's something in the ural mindset that makes you confront new information and go "well that's wrong, any opinion I don't have or fact I don't know is obviously made up," right Glowing-Fish? There's a correlation between graduation rates and education quality and religion in the Southeast. Also some of the textbook literature that is taught is altered to cast things such as the Civil War in a more "positive" light. I'm only speaking for the Southern US, but questioning things like faith and authority figures (such as teachers) is frowned upon.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:28
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:A lot of white people are convinced that black people get a completely different set of assistance than white people. I've met a couple dozen white people who swore to my face that "Obamacare" was special secret free healthcare for black people. Tons of white people really do not comprehend that the food stamps they get are the dreaded "welfare" they're so mad about black people receiving. Back when I worked in industry, I had an argument with a coworker about exactly this. His image of "food stamps" was basically Reagan's "strapping young bucks buying t-bone steaks" schtick verbatim, I explained that I'd been on food stamps and it actually sucks, and he told me that it's because I'm white and don't get access to the Secret Black People Welfare. It was quite an eye-opener for me on how these people think. It's why you get all those articles where white people are shocked that the guy they voted for is going to gently caress them over just like he said he would. It's not so much a case where they'll accept cuts to their programs if it hurts black people too, it's that they think the people calling for those cuts are signalling that they're going to fight this imaginary black-people-only program.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:34
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A lot of poor Republican voters are voting in respect to things that don't actually happen. Some of them are mad at Obamacare because they believe that Republicans stand for UHC and Democrats are stopping them, *sigh.*
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Jul 5, 2017 15:58
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BarbarianElephant posted:A lot of poor Republican voters are voting in respect to things that don't actually happen. Some of them are mad at Obamacare because they believe that Republicans stand for UHC and Democrats are stopping them, *sigh.* life outside cities proper is like some hosed up allegory of the cave where all they know of civilization is what they get from Fox News, who tells them downtown Chicago is, like, Fallujah and Detroit might as well be Aleppo or Kobane. Which is fine because it scares them and keeps them out most of the time but good good when they show up it's like trying to deal with a feral cat stuck in your garbage can. Everything spooks them, they think they're getting the short end no matter what, and they drive like someone's chasing them.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:09
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FAUXTON posted:life outside cities proper is like some hosed up allegory of the cave where all they know of civilization is what they get from Fox News, who tells them downtown Chicago is, like, Fallujah and Detroit might as well be Aleppo or Kobane. Like this thread isn't at least a third people that have opinions about what rural life is pieced together from random movies and simpsons characters.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:27
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What's the definition of rural? A town with 200 people or the culture in the town?
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Jul 5, 2017 16:31
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like this thread isn't at least a third people that have opinions about what rural life is pieced together from random movies and simpsons characters. The miracle of the internet is that you can actually talk to rural people and Republican voters despite being a snooty urban elite.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:33
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Vargatron posted:What's the definition of rural? A town with 200 people or the culture in the town? Local dick-swingers will insist that 200 people is far too many to be proper rural. If you've had enough human interaction to acquire speech you're a liberal elite.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:35
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Top of a mountain in New England, a day's walk from neighbors: Snooty urban elite. Suburban Dallas: Rural.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:41
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Do I count as rural then if my parents live in a trailer and my grandparents live on a mill hill? (I'm dead serious actually) Oh wait, I have the mental faculties to type and use the internet, nevermind.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:42
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lol at oocc of all people lecturing others about sounding off w/ their opinion after some hasty wiki reading
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Jul 5, 2017 16:54
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You are a guy who had a new experience, met people who thought different things, and concluded "they are all wrong, only I am right." That makes you trash and no opinion you will ever have will ever matter, because you're an intellectual coward. You should never have left your lair. I never thought of myself as particularly rural. My most formative years were in a town that was at the time, about 3000 people (now its closer to 10,000), and was about 30 miles from Portland, Oregon. At the time, it had two grocery stores, a one room library, a McDonalds, a Chinese restaurant, a high school, two elementary schools, a bowling alley, and a bus that went to the nearest shopping mall, 10 miles away, every hour. And maybe it was because I was too young, but I don't remember the people in my town feeling particularly rural, or having any enmity to "the city"? Like I was raised in a small town, but I never remember the idea that the people in my town felt themselves somehow different from the people who lived in Vancouver or Portland. And thats the question I keep asking, because the answer isn't obvious to me. How is living in a town like Jefferson different from living in Ashtabula? How is it different from life in Cleveland? As far as when I went to Vermont. Those people didn't actively think different things. They presumed different things. I remember someone from Long Island telling me they "Had been into The City twice", and it took me a while to adjust to the fact that people in upstate New York, New England, even Long Island thought of New York City as another world. But they just took it for granted. Someone who lived in a place where they could get to New York City on commuter rail thought of it as a separate place, one they had only visited two times in their life. But I learned to understand that distance can't always be measured in miles. I learned to see their viewpoint, such as it was. But they took their own viewpoint for granted: they just assumed that everyone thought that the distance between Albany and New York City was an existential one, a fact of nature that can't be denied. Which it very clearly isn't.
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Jul 5, 2017 17:06
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Vargatron posted:What's the definition of rural? A town with 200 people or the culture in the town? I would say the kind of services that are provided in the town. A economy in rural town will be focused on supporting the primary sector of the economy.
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Jul 5, 2017 17:16
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Vargatron posted:What's the definition of rural? A town with 200 people or the culture in the town? For me, its based on population and access to services. For a lot of people in this thread, the term "rural" has more connotation than denotation. The term is being used to give a single, one-word definition to a variety of characteristics, like being white, religious, from an area declining in population, from an area that depended on manufacturing, older, high school educated, being a Trump supporter, etc. If you make a Venn diagram of the objectively rural people, and the people who are culturally rural, there is going to be a lot of overlap, but there are going to be a lot of people who don't overlap.
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Jul 5, 2017 17:18
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I grew up in an area where cattle and chicken farming were one of the major sources of production. It stands to reason that the families who owned those farms were also high up in the political and religious scene in town. Textile manufacturing also used to be a pretty big deal but that's shifted over to automotive, which has caused a lot of the younger generation to move to Greenville, which is the metro area in Upstate SC. The issue with this shift in population is that you had towns where the mill closed down and all the families left. Housing became super cheap as a result. A lot of houses also were essentially abandoned which were then repurposed as drug houses. So then you had this cycle where cheap housing was available, but nobody wanted to move into them because of the drug issues and those available houses were then abandoned too.
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Jul 5, 2017 17:44
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glowing-fish posted:As far as when I went to Vermont. Those people didn't actively think different things. They presumed different things. I remember someone from Long Island telling me they "Had been into The City twice", and it took me a while to adjust to the fact that people in upstate New York, New England, even Long Island thought of New York City as another world. But they just took it for granted. Someone who lived in a place where they could get to New York City on commuter rail thought of it as a separate place, one they had only visited two times in their life. But I learned to understand that distance can't always be measured in miles. I learned to see their viewpoint, such as it was. But they took their own viewpoint for granted: they just assumed that everyone thought that the distance between Albany and New York City was an existential one, a fact of nature that can't be denied. Which it very clearly isn't.
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Jul 5, 2017 17:54
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:That's exactly what I'm talking about, shithead. You met people who committed the terrible crime of having their own viewpoint, and instead of going "huh, how interesting," you're still calm-hitlering about their wrongful wrongness years after the fact. You're ignorant and small-minded and disgusting. I'm sorry which post warranted this meltdown again?
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Jul 5, 2017 18:09
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like this thread isn't at least a third people that have opinions about what rural life is pieced together from random movies and simpsons characters. Thing is that every time someone is like "yeah, I grew up in a place exactly like that and know people exactly like this and here are my disagreements with the hagiography in these articles based on my life" someone decides to move the goalposts again and they weren't truly rural because they had electricity or running water and an indoor toilet or some bullshit.
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Jul 5, 2017 18:19
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I wasn't asking anyone to insult glowing-fish.
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Jul 5, 2017 18:52
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Gazpacho posted:I wasn't asking anyone to insult glowing-fish. Allow me to relate to you the fable of the Goon and the Frog.
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Jul 5, 2017 19:00
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Gazpacho posted:I wasn't asking anyone to insult glowing-fish. Nobody was asking glowing-fish to insult them either, and yet
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Jul 5, 2017 19:01
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BarbarianElephant posted:I don't believe black people are very happy about being completely taken for granted by Democrats, because what are they going to do, vote for the party with Jeff Sessions in?
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Jul 5, 2017 19:04
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Nobody was asking glowing-fish to insult them either, and yet Can you point out where this happened, I clicked their "?" and couldn't find it TIA
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Jul 5, 2017 20:19
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Nobody was asking glowing-fish to insult them either, and yet I was being smug, condescending and goonishly pedantic, but I was not being insulting.
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Jul 5, 2017 20:39
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glowing-fish posted:I was being smug, condescending and goonishly pedantic, but I was not being insulting.
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Jul 5, 2017 20:43
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The reason I feel that I am not being insensitive or dismissive by questioning the ruralness of an area like Jefferson, Ohio, is that it is not like these people don't have a voice. United States politics, over the past six years, has been obsessed with these people. Donald Trump won by telling these people they were the forgotten ones. A large chunk of the Republican Parties recent leadership (Boehner, McConnell, Ryan, Cantor) have been from suburban or exurban areas of the East. As much as we talk about marketers going for urban millenials, places like Jefferson are the mainstream that companies market to. When you see a movie, the producer had to assure the studio that people in a town like Jefferson would drive the 20 minutes to the theater in Ashtabula to see it. This is still the mainstream of the United States that politicians and companies have to appeal to. I am just questioning whether areas like this need even more attention. And if so, what kind? Like, what do the people in Jefferson, Ohio, need that they don't have?
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Jul 5, 2017 20:58
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Don't tell lies on top of everything else. I really don't remember insulting people, at least in this thread. Can you find it for me?
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Jul 5, 2017 20:59
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Gazpacho posted:I wasn't asking anyone to insult glowing-fish. I was, in my heart.
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Jul 5, 2017 21:01
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glowing-fish posted:I am just questioning whether areas like this need even more attention. And if so, what kind? Like, what do the people in Jefferson, Ohio, need that they don't have? Sounds like help affording healthcare and avoiding the pitfalls of opiates, if the statistics are true
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Jul 5, 2017 21:25
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glowing-fish posted:I really don't remember insulting people, at least in this thread. Can you find it for me? You think you get a clean slate just because it's a new thread? Look up your posts in the trump thread and eat a dick. Your "gosh everyone who lives in different places than me thinks their homes and lives matter, wonder how they could be so wrong, maybe they're just dumber than me I guess" schtick got nipped in the bud here but it's pretty easy to see what's insulting about it if you recognize the humanity of other people. Which obviously YOU can't do, but decent people read this thread too.
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Jul 5, 2017 21:41
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So, uh, has anyone read Robin D G Kelley's Hammer and Hoe: Alabama Communists during the Great Depression? Worth getting? Kindle version just came out. It's historical rather than current, but if its good it'd be a nice insight into the thread topic.
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Jul 5, 2017 22:33
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BarbarianElephant posted:A lot of poor Republican voters are voting in respect to things that don't actually happen. Some of them are mad at Obamacare because they believe that Republicans stand for UHC and Democrats are stopping them, *sigh.* I'm going to need a citation for that. As a coastal elite I don't wish to look down on these poor benighted landlocked folks, but surely they have...reality...there.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:11
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call to action posted:Sounds like help affording healthcare and avoiding the pitfalls of opiates, if the statistics are true Totally honest question: why is healthcare harder to afford for people living in Jefferson, Ohio, than people living in a city? From the viewpoint of rurality, I would think the biggest issue with healthcare would be access. I do know that Medicaid funds a number of hospitals in rural areas that otherwise can't have access. But as far as the cost of health insurance? Is that a big issue. And for opiates, is the argument basically that life there is so boring that opiates are more attractive? I certainly heard that argument with methamphetamines in the West, 10 to 20 years ago. I think opiates are pretty universally addictive, though. I've certainly seen enough people in urban areas get addicted.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:37
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glowing-fish posted:Totally honest question: why is healthcare harder to afford for people living in Jefferson, Ohio, than people living in a city? Because jobs in the sticks pay less than jobs near urban centers. glowing-fish posted:But as far as the cost of health insurance? Is that a big issue. Holy gently caress, have you been in a time capsule for the last decade or so?
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Jul 6, 2017 01:47
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WampaLord posted:Holy gently caress, have you been in a time capsule for the last decade or so? Montana laughs at your childish east coast concept of time passing
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Jul 6, 2017 01:53
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You think you get a clean slate just because it's a new thread? Look up your posts in the trump thread and eat a dick. Your "gosh everyone who lives in different places than me thinks their homes and lives matter, wonder how they could be so wrong, maybe they're just dumber than me I guess" schtick got nipped in the bud here but it's pretty easy to see what's insulting about it if you recognize the humanity of other people. Which obviously YOU can't do, but decent people read this thread too. Hi! I was born upstate and raised in Vermont and when I got a job in NYC didn't realize how rural I was (or how slow I spoke, jeet christ), when I grew up in a smallish town, so if anyone gets to be pissed at glowing fish it's me or my doppleganger. He's making a pretty decent point about a thing that doesn't get talked about much and you're being really weird. Where exactly do you live that imbues you with such anger on the behalf of me and mine?
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Jul 6, 2017 01:59
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glowing-fish posted:
Assuming revolution is off the table for the purposes of not sprawling this conversation to gently caress, jobs and the kind of capital C Capital that builds a thing to do more things while paying folk good money to do it, and isn't just service sector hell or pees it's pants when it has to file some regulatory paperwork. I'd pull my savings and move back home in less time than it takes to read this post because I miss it so much, but Kerouac was right, and right now the only growth opportunities there are in the Arm Candy Sales sector. motherfucking RUTLAND has corner boys now. RUTLAND!!! there can't be more than two dozen actual loving corners in that town!
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Jul 6, 2017 02:08
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Willie Tomg posted:motherfucking RUTLAND has corner boys now. RUTLAND!!! there can't be more than two dozen actual loving corners in that town! Time Chasers was a documentary
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Jul 6, 2017 02:12
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glowing-fish posted:Totally honest question: why is healthcare harder to afford for people living in Jefferson, Ohio, than people living in a city? Just like people assume there's two kinds of welfare, they also assume there's two kinds of poverty. The difference between the urban poor and the rural poor is that people believe the stereotypical rural person doesn't deserve to be poor (I'm sure you can guess why). Same goes for healthcare and drug addiction - these have plagued the poor for decades, it's just now they're starting to manifest in demographics that people feel shouldn't have these problems.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:18
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