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pdxjohan
Sep 9, 2011

Paradox dev dude.

Communist Zombie posted:

On the 'No CB Podcast' they had Johan on for a Vicky themed episode and when asked about who wrote the Vicky market code he said it was him and another coder, I think Groogy. Im at work so cant listen to it, but theres more tidbits about Vicky 1/2's history and design in the episode.

Podcat and Tegus wrote most of the worldmarket. I wrote the pops and politics. King worked with the economy balance

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
i always forget johan reads this thread

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

Cease to Hope posted:

i always forget johan reads this thread

especially shocking now that he's in sunny Barcelona.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

OctaviusBeaver posted:

I think it's fair to say that they would on the whole, though it definitely varied from person to person.

If you want to dive in to some medieval literature to get a feel for yourself then Historia Calamitatum by Abelard is really accessible and since it's an autobiography you get an insight into how people thought.

The acoup blog is fantastic for this sort of stuff as well:

This article covers oath taking in general, including vassalage:
https://acoup.blog/2019/06/28/collections-oaths-how-do-they-work/

And this one covers letters from a mother to her son with general advice on rulership:
https://acoup.blog/2020/03/27/a-trip-through-dhuoda-of-uzes-carolingian-values/

This is really cool, thank you. So perhaps a good mechanic in CK3 would be that every time someone inherits a title, all the vassals are asked to swear a new oath to their new lord. The ones that do so get a permanent opinion boost toward the lord as long as they're still religious, the ones that refuse get an opinion negative from the lord towards them.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


VostokProgram posted:

This is really cool, thank you. So perhaps a good mechanic in CK3 would be that every time someone inherits a title, all the vassals are asked to swear a new oath to their new lord. The ones that do so get a permanent opinion boost toward the lord as long as they're still religious, the ones that refuse get an opinion negative from the lord towards them.

not swearing an oath to your lord is also known as "being actively in rebellion" and was generally answered with a sword rather than a disapproving frown

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist
BTW this is how it worked in CK1. On succession all vassals had to reconfirm they're still vassals or go into rebellion.

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

ilitarist posted:

BTW this is how it worked in CK1. On succession all vassals had to reconfirm they're still vassals or go into rebellion.

Well it's one way to make the CK3 byzantines less blobby

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!






An ideal vassalage system would probably have 3 groups: vassals important enough to consider rebellion on realm succession, vassals who are drawn into one of the former group’s factions and vassals who are too remote to care.

GrossMurpel
Apr 8, 2011
Having your vassals revolt on every succession is just the EU3 horde system and we all know everyone loved that.
Plus, if there's a vassal with a strong claim in CK2 they can already revolt on succession, right?

DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

pdxjohan posted:

Podcat and Tegus wrote most of the worldmarket. I wrote the pops and politics. King worked with the economy balance

What is your opinion on how Marxist dialectics can be used as a model for future Paradox games?

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!






DrSunshine posted:

What is your opinion on how Marxist dialectics can be used as a model for future Paradox games?

Same question but only for Victoria’s Secret.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

ilitarist posted:

BTW this is how it worked in CK1. On succession all vassals had to reconfirm they're still vassals or go into rebellion.

This is also pretty much what happens in practice during a lot of successions in CK2. "The council is discontent"

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Succession is always been the most volitale period in CK.

It’s the rest that’s probably to stable

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

DrSunshine posted:

What is your opinion on how Marxist dialectics can be used as a model for future Paradox games?

The Soviet Rework in HOI4 will have an idea tree that starts with 'Consider Inherent Contradictions" and it takes 1200 days to complete and you get nothing for doing it.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

Alchenar posted:

The Soviet Rework in HOI4 will have an idea tree that starts with 'Consider Inherent Contradictions" and it takes 1200 days to complete and you get nothing for doing it.

Wait I haven't been following HoI for a while, there's still no soviet rework? :ussr:

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
no Covid hosed everything up so they did a mini DLC for Greece, Turkey, and Bulgaria since they couldn’t get the Soviet one done on time

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

CharlestheHammer posted:

Succession is always been the most volitale period in CK.

It’s the rest that’s probably to stable

I wonder if the big issue is the immediatisation of Independence Factions. Vassals are free to go conquer their weak neighbors, but as far as I can tell any separatists have to fight the (generally much stronger) top level liege.

I'm not sure how you fix that in a non-annoying way though.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

PittTheElder posted:

I wonder if the big issue is the immediatisation of Independence Factions. Vassals are free to go conquer their weak neighbors, but as far as I can tell any separatists have to fight the (generally much stronger) top level liege.

I'm not sure how you fix that in a non-annoying way though.

A big problem is distance doesn’t matter. If you are right next to your liege or an ocean away you win the war the same way.

Like when Spain broke off the Caliphate it won a couple of pitched battles then the Caliph in Baghdad gave up.

That can’t really happen in CK. You would have to attack Baghdad itself

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Raskolnikov38 posted:

no Covid hosed everything up so they did a mini DLC for Greece, Turkey, and Bulgaria since they couldn’t get the Soviet one done on time
Where did they say this? I thought I read that they contracted out the work for additional focus trees so the core staff could work on the next major rework, which they will start doing DDs for now that the Focus Tree-only DLC dropped. They did this because the core staff would not have time to do trees for minors like Turkey, Bulgaria, and Greece and still do the next major, mechanic updating/changing in addition to reworking an existing focus tree or two, DLC, and because they know that there is demand for more focus trees.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

Alchenar posted:

The Soviet Rework in HOI4 will have an idea tree that starts with 'Consider Inherent Contradictions" and it takes 1200 days to complete and you get nothing for doing it.

National Spirit Unlocked: Marxist-Leninist Thought

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a poo poo-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*. He is starting to suspect Karl Marx *hosed him over* personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.

-10% Stability
-5% Ruling Party Support
Units Gain Additional Exp When Fighting Fascists

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



Disco Elysium mod for HOI4 when

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013


"هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)
Looking forward to the naval rework required for that

shades of blue
Sep 27, 2012

CharlestheHammer posted:

A big problem is distance doesn’t matter. If you are right next to your liege or an ocean away you win the war the same way.

Like when Spain broke off the Caliphate it won a couple of pitched battles then the Caliph in Baghdad gave up.

That can’t really happen in CK. You would have to attack Baghdad itself

In general all Paradox games don't model warfare particularly well, especially on the peripheries of imperial states. It's also way too easy for those same states to engage in military campaigns on the far periphery of their realms.

V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER
CK3 already sold 1 million units. Not bad

https://twitter.com/EbbaPDX/status/1328594381025185793?s=19

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

quote:

During the quarter, we decided to cancel further development of an unannounced externally developed game.

You don't want to make Vicky 3, you don't want other people to make Vicky 3 for you, do you just want us to be miserable?

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Victoria 3 will only be released once wiz has proven P = NP

Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3

Yams Fan

VostokProgram posted:

Victoria 3 will only be released once wiz has proven P = NP

trivial, just use Wiz's new mod, it's called =Plus

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


https://twitter.com/PdxInteractive/status/1331714972573896704

V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER
Nice

Minenfeld!
Aug 21, 2012



Nice

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

CharlestheHammer posted:

A big problem is distance doesn’t matter. If you are right next to your liege or an ocean away you win the war the same way.

Like when Spain broke off the Caliphate it won a couple of pitched battles then the Caliph in Baghdad gave up.

That can’t really happen in CK. You would have to attack Baghdad itself
That's not true. If you hold all your territory you'll build up points over time.

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.
I didn't see an Imperator:Rome thread so I'll ask here:

I've played a lot of EU4 and Stellaris so I figured Imperator would be right up my alley, but holy poo poo is the character system awful. I'm playing as Rome, and have had to resort to bribes to prevent civil wars nonstop for the last 50 years now because nobody anywhere in my entire government will stay loyal for more than 5 minutes. I'm doing everything I can, putting prominent families in government positions, only picking the most loyal governors/generals I possibly can, and making sure the senate likes me but it's never enough and 2-3 assholes with half the power in my country always band together and threaten civil war.

There's a lot about this game I love but I'm so sick and tired of having to manually wipe the rear end of every man, woman, and child in Italy when I should be developing provinces and waging war (and then getting stabbed in the back anyway). Am I missing something here or should I just cheat everyone to 100 loyalty so I can actually play the drat game?

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006
Here's the Imperator thread, but it doesn't see a lot of traffic:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3887704

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
The Imperator: Rome thread technically exists, but the most recent post was a month ago and was actually someone complaining about CK3.

The underlying problem, if I had to guess, is that you're consolidating half the power in your country in the hands of 2-3 assholes.

- Don't give family heads any real power. They get enough of it just by being the head of the family, instead find smaller members of powerful families to give the political offices to.
- If you're used to other Paradox games, you're probably building some nice big doomstacks that can crush your opposition in the field with ease. Problem is, now you've given the general of that doomstack a massive power base. Be like ancient Rome and divide them into many smaller legions.
- If you can't please every family, pick one to be the whipping boy and make sure they have absolutely no power at all.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
Republics are much heavier on the "manage assholes" front, if you want to not have to put so much effort into dealing with loyalty then monarchies have an easier time, you just need to befriend family heads and marry your kids to them and that's usually enough to keep things stable.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Ironically I think IP does better than CK at dealing with internal politics

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006
Also, apparently Imperator is heading towards a 2.0 "We fixed the game now!" release.

Patch description: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/imperator-dd-101-a-most-auspicious-number.1428183/
Expansion pack description (focusing on the Diadochi) https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/imperator-dev-diary-heirs-of-alexander.1444015/

Lum_ fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jan 3, 2021

Snail Information
May 29, 2010

Snailmancy

Lum_ posted:

Also, apparently Imperator is heading towards a 2.0 "We fixed the game now!" release.

Patch description: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/imperator-dd-101-a-most-auspicious-number.1428183/
Expansion pack description (focusing on the Diadochi) https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/imperator-dev-diary-heirs-of-alexander.1444015/

To be fair, the game is much better now. It's just annoying it had to release half-done.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012

Snail Information posted:

To be fair, the game is much better now. It's just annoying it had to release half-done.

It didn't release half done, Johan really truly believed that the game would be embraced by the silent majority who doesn't spend any of their time on forums (in fairness, he's been right basically every other time he decided to ignore the forums.) I'm sure there were some things where they just didn't have enough time do what they really wanted, but the majority of it's release flaws were products of what the game was actively trying to be.

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ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist
Yeah, it was released as a complete and polished experience. It just turned out that people really wanted a different experience. So now Imperator Rome turns from a Hideo Kojima production game (directed by Hideo Kojima) into amalgam of everything players want to have. Seems to be designed by committee deal now.

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