|
Star Trek combined with the completely ridiculous(-ly realistic, in a way) and brutal space battles from Legend of Galactic Heroes could work pretty well. The climactic clash of two gigantic space states actually means thousands of ships and hundreds of thousands of lives just being swept away off the playing board into the darkness of space in a dense hail of laser beams and kinetic ordinance, all taking place in one bloody instant. I really should watch the rest of that show, it's just the best scifi show, so good it manages to almost completely overcome the fact that it is one of them dang Japanimations those pervy kids watch these days. barbecue at the folks fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Feb 27, 2018 |
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 07:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 12:22 |
|
|
Bebop is a better show but galactic heroes is better space opera
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 07:38
|
|
|
barbecue at the folks posted:Star Trek combined with the completely ridiculous(-ly realistic, in a way) and brutal space battles from Legend of Galactic Heroes could work pretty well. The climactic clash of two gigantic space states actually means thousands of ships and hundreds of thousands of lives just being swept away off the playing board into the darkness of space in a dense hail of laser beams and kinetic ordinance, all taking place in one bloody instant. Most of the reason Star Trek hasn't been at that scale is due to budget limitations. DS9's battles had people rattling off poo poo like 1,000 ship fleets were being destroyed and 5,000 ship battles were taking place but you only ever really saw like 30-40 ships. Same way that DS9 had 800+ Starfleet and 3000+ people living there not including travelers and you only ever really see the one hallway with quarks. Getting across that The Empire in Star Wars really has 25,000 Star Destroyers or that The Federation has thousands of planets is an issue of scale.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 07:48
|
|
|
Considering that Star Destroyers aren't even the biggest ships in star wars 25000 of them still seems pretty low. Of course that's not counting smaller but still big ships like Victory class destroyers or Immobilizer 418s.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 07:52
|
|
|
Blistex posted:Hell, the Star Trek version of space combat is pretty outdated by today's standards. I think it was "Forever War" which spend a few pages outlining space combat between drones and ships, and in the end it was describing events that took place in mere seconds. Firing 2-4 torpedoes every 4-5 seconds is something that would be laughable, while one of those Japanese anime shows where every fight is multiple volleys of hundred missiles would be more realistic. Also what good are phasers on ships if they are not used to intercept torpedoes. ST:2009 sort of had it right with the point-defense phasers, but even then it was relying on humans to control them. Remember, second season TOS straight up says the Enterprise can fight far more effectively under total computer control than a well-trained and experienced crew ever could. Trek was never attempting to realistically portray space combat; as a space opera, it instead uses Earth metaphors to create a visually dramatic presentation. Nick Meyer explicitly said he wanted a scene in The Wrath of Khan where the men were "running out the guns" like they're on an old sailing warship... so we therefore get the shot of people manually pulling up grates from the floor and then a photon torpedo trundles down the freshly-cleared track. Similarly, Star Wars was utterly anachronistic when it came out; air-to-air missiles had already been used in combat numerous times by 1977, yet the X-Wings and TIE Fighters always go in for the WW1-style dogfight.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 08:47
|
|
|
Blistex posted:Hell, the Star Trek version of space combat is pretty outdated by today's standards. I think it was "Forever War" which spend a few pages outlining space combat between drones and ships, and in the end it was describing events that took place in mere seconds. Firing 2-4 torpedoes every 4-5 seconds is something that would be laughable, while one of those Japanese anime shows where every fight is multiple volleys of hundred missiles would be more realistic. Also what good are phasers on ships if they are not used to intercept torpedoes. ST:2009 sort of had it right with the point-defense phasers, but even then it was relying on humans to control them. Forever War is a really goddamn good book and is required reading for sci-fi fans. Two computers fighting it out, and woops one of them is 50 years more advanced because of time dilation so it just gets smoked. I would absolutely watch a show or movie with that premise.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 08:53
|
|
|
barbecue at the folks posted:Star Trek combined with the completely ridiculous(-ly realistic, in a way) and brutal space battles from Legend of Galactic Heroes could work pretty well. The climactic clash of two gigantic space states actually means thousands of ships and hundreds of thousands of lives just being swept away off the playing board into the darkness of space in a dense hail of laser beams and kinetic ordinance, all taking place in one bloody instant. Well... except when the ship takes an hour to burn down, so that the admiral can gallantly escape and run up his flag at another ship. LOGH has just as many absurd concessions to drama as the next space opera. That said, why would the Star Trek setting be a good place to tell LOGH style stories? I think one of the problems with modern Trek is it's gotten too caught up in combat. Even DS9 with its Dominion War spent a lot of episodes not fighting. If you want to do Tom Clancy in space, go pay David Weber to license Honor Harrington.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 08:56
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Remember, second season TOS straight up says the Enterprise can fight far more effectively under total computer control than a well-trained and experienced crew ever could. Starfleet is a jobs program. Tons of people want to work on starships, so ships like the enterprise can hold a thousand people even though nearly everything it does could be done in a smaller ship crewed by a dozen people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 09:03
|
|
|
You could probably pick up the license to Wing Commander for a dime. of coke.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 09:04
|
|
|
VictorianQueerLit posted:Most of the reason Star Trek hasn't been at that scale is due to budget limitations. Why would anyone even want to cross the galaxy in Star Wars when there's like 9 total people who live in it anyways?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 09:14
|
|
|
finished ds9 and tng rewatches and felt like i deserved some bij but i couldn't bring myself to watch voy again. then i remembered how i never actually finished ent and honestly didn't pay attention to most of it to begin with. so I selected my bij and started with s01, up to the ferengi episode now. Its shocking how many bad choices were made in this series, starting with the cast. Phlox is good and there are those lil bits of promise that shine through the cracks in T'Pol' s poor direction (like the folks in charge who decided spock's clever burns and sarcastic wit should translate to "Vulcans are aggressively arrogant space racist pricks who look down on everyone with seething contempt and they're actively loving over humanity". Such a lovely decision to start this way. And goddamn is archer the blandest mfer ever. What an absolutely terrible casting choice. The worst bit is this weird habit he has of mugging for the camera without looking at the camera, so he just looks around the bridge and mugs to no one in particular. That ep where they get hailed by the party animal Vulcans who start off with "hey, thrilled to meet you captain archer!" is hilarious, Archer just makes this absurd "get a load of this guy!" face, looking around from side to side at no one really, just making this hurr hurr face. Its so cringeworthy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 09:30
|
|
|
Gatekeeper, I love your analyses just as much as I love your rambling insane mania-posts. Particularly, I never thought of the Vulcan rear end in a top hat thing like that. That insight is ... fascinating, for a human.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 09:36
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:Starfleet is a jobs program. Tons of people want to work on starships, so ships like the enterprise can hold a thousand people even though nearly everything it does could be done in a smaller ship crewed by a dozen people. Not quite. The general concession is it's got a lot of people running their own labs and experiments throughout the Enterprise. It's more of a mobile city than a ship.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 09:39
|
|
|
Gatekeeper posted:finished ds9 and tng rewatches and felt like i deserved some bij but i couldn't bring myself to watch voy again. then i remembered how i never actually finished ent and honestly didn't pay attention to most of it to begin with. so I selected my bij and started with s01, up to the ferengi episode now. I mean that basically is what vulcans are though, it's covered in multiple treks multiple times. The whole point is they are a race who believes that emotions make you weak and not as good as someone who uses just logic. They insist this is a logical position, as their history shows their people were war mongers like early humans until they embraced logic. However, the galaxy is obviously full of objectively successful races that do not eschew all emotions. Yet the vulcans still sit there saying "Being logical is the only logical and superior way to live" which when you think about it isn't very logical. Which means the fact they believe themselves to be superior isn't logical, but emotional, but vulcans deny that. So setting star trek at the start of the whole thing with vulcans saying "we have already helped you too much, we fear grave consequences if your technology advances faster than your society" while being snooty condescending aliens with a superiority complex makes sense. Humans then rocking up to the metaphorical galactic bar and getting into a fist fight with the Andorians and being best buds afterwards and then engaging in world class banter with the Tellerites and being best buds all while the vulcans sit there going "wtf? How did they achieve this in 10 years while our diplomats fail" only for it to all be a lesson about how accepting and adapting to other cultures makes us stronger together not weaker is a good story. Then they poo poo all over it with bad writing and casting and theme songs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 10:08
|
|
|
Kitchner posted:So setting star trek at the start of the whole thing with vulcans saying "we have already helped you too much, we fear grave consequences if your technology advances faster than your society" while being snooty condescending aliens with a superiority complex makes sense. And they aren't even totally wrong, trying to force the advancement of a technologically primitive culture can go real bad. You don't just roll up to a stone age society and teach them smelting. There's just no way to not seem like a condescending rear end in a top hat while withholding useful technology.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:And they aren't even totally wrong, trying to force the advancement of a technologically primitive culture can go real bad. You don't just roll up to a stone age society and teach them smelting. There's just no way to not seem like a condescending rear end in a top hat while withholding useful technology. Yeah, again a potentially interesting plot line left to waste. The captain of the enterprise is especially cold to Vulcans believing them to be holding humanity back from greatness. This captain then encounters a situation where he interferes with a primitive culture leading to devastating consequences. The subsequent hearing by United Earth clears him of wrong doing, but launches an enquiry into humanities future relation with primitive cultures. Despite being legally innocent, the captain feels guilty and lobbies for the prime directive of the new federation to be what we know today. Instead you get Archer saying "Maybe one day there will be some sort of directive about interfering in other races development *wink to camera* but there isn't one today".
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 16:41
|
|
|
Kitchner posted:Yeah, again a potentially interesting plot line left to waste. Yeah, it was overall a pretty disappointing show, because it could have been so much better. My mom loved the theme song though. Bold move, targeting the coveted middle aged lady demographic with a star trek show.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:And they aren't even totally wrong, trying to force the advancement of a technologically primitive culture can go real bad. You don't just roll up to a stone age society and teach them smelting. There's just no way to not seem like a condescending rear end in a top hat while withholding useful technology. That's not what seems off to me though, it's the seething barely restrained hatred the ENT Vulcans have that feels so weird. No smug condescending Vulcan coolly provoking humans into losing their tempers here, just Vulcans who seem just as easily provoked. Every interaction between the humans and the Vulcans seems like it narrowly avoided breaking down into a shouting match, even a fistfight had it lasted a few moments longer. And all the sneaky, underhanded deception a d manipulation, all that behavior befitting a Romulan, not a Vulcan, if the four previous series are to be believed. Vulcans have no need to lie about this poo poo either, if anything they would be maddeningly blunt about how and why they are hindering humanity this particular time with their "because I said so, that's why", parent of a space-toddler style of civilization-guiding. Archer shouldnt be saying "I always knew those Vulcans were holding us back and keeping things from us!" because the High Command mfers should have flat out said "hey, we're going to slow things down a bit and make sure you stay around d this tech level for a bit because poo poo is real out here and you're not even close to prepared for it and no, your pride is not worth the risk of destabilizing the galaxy. thanks." Gatekeeper fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Feb 28, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 07:51
|
|
|
The vulcans chilled out after they had that stupid spiritual awakening or whatever near the end of ENT that made them give up trying to boss everyone around.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 08:45
|
|
|
Also they actually had a Romulan in the upper echalons of their government influencing things
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 11:50
|
|
|
Gatekeeper posted:That's not what seems off to me though, it's the seething barely restrained hatred the ENT Vulcans have that feels so weird. Yeah, that was weird. VictorianQueerLit posted:The vulcans chilled out after they had that stupid spiritual awakening or whatever near the end of ENT that made them give up trying to boss everyone around. Good point. The Vulcans were shown to be capable of growth as well, not just humans. And in the end the Federation benefited them tremendously, they were ultimately much stronger and more successful in an alliance with humans and other species than they were in isolation. Hmm, now I wonder if the "logic extremists" that attacked Sarak were supposed to be a throwback to that, a cultural reaction to the loss of traditional Vulcan values that happened since Enterprise. Vulcans live twice as long as humans, so that spiritual awakening a hundred years ago isn't ancient history to them. There would still be cranky grandpas complaining that things were better before they allied with the irrational species to form the Federation.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 12:56
|
|
|
Yeah, the Kir'Sha'Ra or whatever and Romulan infiltration thing, while I did mostly like it, really felt like a retcon basically, to explain away the S1 Vulcan assholery.
Hipster_Doofus fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Feb 28, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 13:46
|
|
|
Gatekeeper, I would like you to form sentences, mind your syntax, and use proper punctuation.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 14:11
|
|
|
Gatekeeper's posts are perfectly tosk.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 15:52
|
|
|
numberoneposter posted:Gatekeeper, I would like you to form sentences, mind your syntax, and use proper punctuation. Nooooooo i will not sacrifice my extremely good cool posting 'tude. ive made too many compromises already, capitalized the first letter of too many sentences. goons tell me to stop posting whilst manic, and i log out. they yell about my use of deliriants to fuel my trek analyses, and i log out. not again! the line must be drawn here! this far, no further! and i will make you put me on your ignore list 
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 22:01
|
|
|
i wish star trek was real so i could kill bajorans myself:(
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 02:04
|
|
|
Hector Beerlioz posted:i wish star trek was real so i could kill bajorans myself:( lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 02:56
|
|
|
What you call genocide, Trekkies call a day's work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 02:57
|
|
|
Gatekeeper posted:Nooooooo Haha im just joshin ya 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
For you, the day the Cardassians graced your planet was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 03:11
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:What you call child abuse, Trekkies call a day's work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 03:22
|
|
|
the temporal cold war is poo poo and that evil cabbal is lame and goofy but the worst part of this whole plotline is the suliban skin  every time theyre on screen its vom city population menumberoneposter posted:Haha im just joshin ya from hells heart i shitpost at thee 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 03:49
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 03:50
|
|
|
Hector Beerlioz posted:i wish star trek was real so i could kill bajorans myself:( 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 03:52
|
|
|
She did some Bolian dirty to get lumped with those awful bangs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 04:38
|
|
|
wow I can't believe how my brain entirely blocked out all the creepy poo poo with t'pol in the night in sickbay episode, for some reason I only remembered Sam Beckett being sad about his beagle and Phlox's wacky animal hijinx. Forgot all about the completely inappropriate unnecessary poo poo with blackula creaming his jumpsuit over a glistening gel smeared t'pol 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 07:08
|
|
|
So I was browsing Voyager on Amazon and I was looking at the cast photos for each season, and  at Beltrans' expression in the season 4 one:e: sonavabitch why won't the image display? I tried everything. Anyway here: https://imgur.com/a/BA1Z2 Hipster_Doofus fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Mar 1, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 16:19
|
|
|
Hipster_Doofus posted:So I was browsing Voyager on Amazon and I was looking at the cast photos for each season, and You want the BBCode version that looks like code:
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
Beltran considered it an honor to work on Voyager
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 16:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 12:22 |
|
|
Neddy Seagoon posted:You want the BBCode version that looks like Still not working. Idgi.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 17:42
|
|