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Simon Rogers posted:Whatever we publish, people are going to say "my baby is missing." Some of my babies are missing. But, I'm in the more fortunate position of being able to so something about it.
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Sep 18, 2012 17:11
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Simon Rogers posted:On another thread, by all means feel free to tell me what you would like to see for the game. Worms. Can. Open. The Battle Captain is going to be attractive because it is a fantasy Archetype that was missing in D&D for some time, on a similar note people are probably going to want a more complicated fighter at some point. Probably a gladiator/grappler type since Suplexing Dragons was a huge draw in 4e. Some smartass is going to come along any minute and suggest kingdom building/siege warfare type rules and while I've never like them, that smartass is right, they are something that modern D&D lacks as a bolt on module. In terms of what I would personally like to see, I am going to ask over and over for a STL until I get a definitive answer. The Archmage engine is great, but the STL was a far better option for both the 3pp and the publisher IMO.
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Sep 18, 2012 17:12
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Red_Mage posted:Worms. Can. Open. Hi, @Red_Mage - I'm not seeing the thread.
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Sep 18, 2012 17:31
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Illvillainy posted:Hmm, I don't think you're likely to get $11k in 3 days regardless of interest so I think that's a little harsh on the martial healer fans personally but hey, like you said, it's your call. I am not disparaging anyone - all I'm saying is that it's not my priority. It's just that if we did raise the funds, then it would be published much more quickly. I want to do a bestiary, episodic campaign and city book first at the the very least, plus probably a GM's book based on copious actual play. Class and other crunchy stuff is likely to come later. But all this is currently academic. There are three days still to go. Simon Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 18, 2012 |
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Sep 18, 2012 17:44
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I do think Illvillainy makes a really good point - given that it took a long time to get to $30k (20ish days), it seems a bit reactionary to think that failure to raise $11k in the final three days is a sign that classes like the Battle Captain and the Occultist aren't viable or wanted, especially considering that this is a proposed supplement for a game that isn't out in stores yet. I would wager that if Battle Captain and Occultist were the $42k and $46k reward tiers that these rewards would make the book easily - but that's less because of the content and more because I think that's where this Kickstarter was likely to end up given funding projections after the Penny Arcade plug. I don't think there's a groudswell of support specifically responding to Devil-monsters and new art - I would guess the current funding is a function of the tiers that people actually want being well beyond where we're at now. I can assert, speaking for myself only, that if we're a long way away from the extra content I want I'll be decreasing my pledge in the final hours. I'm willing to subsidize this expansion insofar as I want it to offer more player-centric content, but I'm not willing to stretch my finances to get additions that I'm not particularly interested in. Maybe that's kind of a dick move on my part and will give Wade grey hair (and I'm sorry, Wade!), but I'll pay a premium to get to Occultist and Battle Captain but not for things that I might never use as a GM (and certainly don't need). But again, I wouldn't take the failure to raise $11k in the final three days as a sign that more classes are not viable. I've been running 13th Age exclusively for the past three months after time away from gaming, and a huge chunk of my groups are new players. But when even new players who like fantasy novels are asking if they can be holy assassins, Croaker from the Black Company novels, and assorted other archetypes not listed it suggests to me that there's room for expansion beyond reskinning an existing class and pairing it with a cool One Unique Thing. Is that demand enough to get these non-gamers to pitch money to a Kickstarter? Probably not. It's certainly not enough to get my friends who are fans of 4e to fund the Kickstarter - they already have a playtest for a fantasy roleplaying game that is (to quote one of them) "throwing [their] favorite edition under the bus and ensuring none of its best ideas are core" so why should they spend money to reify the conception that their favorite stuff is fringe, boring, and not worth enshrining in the core rulebook? Despite the above, however, I do think there's reason to believe that an expansion book marketed to players - with even more new classes - would be an easier item to sell than certain other supplements that would have mechanical designs that interact with fewer rules. When I edited for Kobold Quarterly Wolfgang Baur taught me that the gold standard for monetizable content was stuff geared towards players rather than GMs; although monsters and dungeons could get lots of GMs to buy a given magazine, there are between 3 and 5 times as many players of RPGs as there are games and getting THEM to buy content is the goal. While new classes might not be enough to generate $11k in three days, doubling down on player content (and maybe even including some of your babies into this expansion book now that we know the book is happening) could well help sell this book once the game proper is out and this expansion is on shelves.
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Sep 18, 2012 17:46
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Simon Rogers posted:Hi, @Red_Mage - I'm not seeing the thread. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507579 Post hot dungeons and the TGDest corridors you got.
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Sep 18, 2012 17:53
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lessthanpleased posted:...doubling down on player content (and maybe even including some of your babies into this expansion book now that we know the book is happening) could well help sell this book once the game proper is out and this expansion is on shelves. What goes into this particular book is not in my hands, though I have made various suggestions (including supporting the inclusion of the Battle Captain as a stretch goal). Edit: I am certainly reading and absorbing what's said. Simon Rogers fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Sep 18, 2012 |
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Sep 18, 2012 17:59
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I'd like more classes. Or even alt. classes that make the "simple" classes more complex. Or even more class features for current classes. I believe player content sells more than DM content. The more player content a book has, the very more likely it is to sell due to the larger user base. It's one reason why more monsters as a stretch goal before new classes is slightly disappointing. A bestiary is nice and all, but it's only a seller to DMs, unless it has player content. It's also a good idea to wait for this, as playing the game for a year or so after release generally makes sure the monster math is correct, catching things the playtest missed.
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Sep 18, 2012 18:03
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Things like the Derro buffs.  I'd echo that I'd like to see simpler / more complex options and "combo meal" recommendations for new players. Something like the Essentials line was for 4e, but up front instead of late in the cycle. Please don't get rid of the sidebar designer notes, either- they give the game a much more informal tone without getting silly or annoying. (Like Burning Wheel. Barf.) Am I the only person who really doesn't care about multi classing?
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Sep 18, 2012 18:16
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Moths, I used the Derro for the first time in my game on Sunday night and they were really awesome. And, like you, I could also care less about multiclassing. RedMage, I think Simon was asking for us to start a thread to consolidate requests for what we'd like to see within/changed about 13th Age. I would start this thread but I'm a noob so I would prefer someone else to start the thread. I like to lurk/comment for a while before I start doing big stuff on a forum to avoid unnecessarily violating forum taboos.
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Sep 18, 2012 18:21
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We've had a bit of a chat about this (we value your Awfulness), and it's been agreed that the Battle Captain will be swapped to a $50K stretch goal. There will be an official announcement later, but I thought you'd like to know. We are on just over $42K, and based on other Kickstarters I think meeting this goal is quite likely. I'm off home - I'll check back later.
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Sep 18, 2012 18:28
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How did you deal with the until next turn buffs? I only had three of them on the table and it was the fiddliest thing to track. Actually I guess if you have them all act on the same initiative that would make things easier. Was that what I should have been doing?
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Sep 18, 2012 18:28
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Simon Rogers posted:We've had a bit of a chat about this (we value your Awfulness), and it's been agreed that the Battle Captain will be swapped to a $50K stretch goal. I don't think it can be stated enough. Pelgrane's involvement with the community has been amazing.
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Sep 18, 2012 18:30
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Simon Rogers posted:On another thread, by all means feel free to tell me what you would like to see for the game. Simon, would that be easier for you to keep track of if it were on the Pelgrane forums? https://www.pelgranepress.com/forum/?CategoryID=14 lessthanpleased posted:Maybe that's kind of a dick move on my part and will give Wade grey hair (and I'm sorry, Wade!) I am enjoying this Kickstarter. fosborb posted:Please tell me you've sent Gabe a promotional copy of everything you have, including the newly updated Kickstarter goals, so he can pimp this for the rest of the week. All I can say is that we're in contact with PA and stuff is happening. We would love for it to result in a boost for 13 True Ways. waderockett fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 18, 2012 |
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Sep 18, 2012 18:31
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moths posted:How did you deal with the until next turn buffs? I only had three of them on the table and it was the fiddliest thing to track. I totally had them act on the same initiative. I had 4 PCs - a paladin, a barbarian, a cleric, and a sorceress all at fourth level - fighting 3 maniacs and 2 of the derro casters that confuse the PCs. It was the toughest fight they've had yet, in large part because I made the casters appear on the battlefield during their initiative and their ranged confuse caused both of our melee fighters to start attacking each other. The chaos was amazing, and having all the maniacs acting on the same turn was really quite great in part because it wasn't headache inducing. I also went mostly with the damage dealing spells moreso than the buffs because it cut down on tracking conditions. And for what it's worth, Pelgrane's involvement with the community has been really great. Other companies could learn a thing or two.
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Sep 18, 2012 18:51
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God that seems so obvious now. I didn't wasn't to give monsters the advantage of acting as a block, but that really seems to be how they're intended to work.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:15
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waderockett posted:All I can say is that we're in contact with PA and stuff is happening. We would love for it to result in a boost for 13 True Ways. Timing's not great, I imagine they'll be talking exclusively about Thornwatch for the foreseeable future. moths posted:God that seems so obvious now. I didn't wasn't to give monsters the advantage of acting as a block, but that really seems to be how they're intended to work. If you want to make a concession to 'fairness' (pfft) just have the derro delay until the slowest individual's initiative, and act as a unit from there on.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:16
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lessthanpleased posted:And for what it's worth, Pelgrane's involvement with the community has been really great. Other companies could learn a thing or two. I really agree with this. Pelgrane and Fire Opal have been 100% involved and receptive to their fanbase. It's a heartening thing for the guy who spent several months railing against the industry.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:16
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moths posted:God that seems so obvious now. I didn't wasn't to give monsters the advantage of acting as a block, but that really seems to be how they're intended to work. My players praise the speed of combat in 13th Age after 4e, and a big part of why it goes so fast is that I always have monsters of the same type act in blocks. I typically declare all of their actions at once ("2 are attacking the paladin, 1 is attacking the sorceress") to cut down on a cascading combo of death, and also because it makes battles go way faster. In my experience running the game, the faster combat is the more fun it is for the players because they're never far away from their next turn. In 4e it could sometimes take up to 5-7 minutes between turns, and that was extremely unfun for me as a player and DM. In 13th Age an entire round can take 3 minutes if everyone knows what they're doing.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:22
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Yeah that is usually what we do, but this was a playtest game and I was trying to everything as purely Rules As Written as possible. Have they addressed how to handle multiple monster initiatives yet? I don't have the book in front of me to check.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:35
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For those of you interested in more classes and options, Fun Tyrant is making its glorious return sometime in the next week with a 13th Age sourcebook called Nightfall. (Simon willing, of course.) After that, among other things, Rulebook and I have been discussing a tactical module for the game, to scratch the itch that 4E migrants might be missing. Okay, that's enough tooting my own horn for one day.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:38
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Wait are we doing this Because I'm adding giant bug monsters, power armor, badass Norse berserkers and unique mechanics to 13th Age.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:40
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lessthanpleased posted:I totally had them act on the same initiative. I had 4 PCs - a paladin, a barbarian, a cleric, and a sorceress all at fourth level - fighting 3 maniacs and 2 of the derro casters that confuse the PCs. It was the toughest fight they've had yet, in large part because I made the casters appear on the battlefield during their initiative and their ranged confuse caused both of our melee fighters to start attacking each other. The chaos was amazing, and having all the maniacs acting on the same turn was really quite great in part because it wasn't headache inducing. I also went mostly with the damage dealing spells moreso than the buffs because it cut down on tracking conditions. Honestly, some monster abilities have more of an advantage when split up in initiative. Save end effects aren't so strong with it, but stated duration effects can be way too strong with split up initiative.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:45
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Gau posted:For those of you interested in more classes and options, Fun Tyrant is making its glorious return sometime in the next week with a 13th Age sourcebook called Nightfall. (Simon willing, of course.) After that, among other things, Rulebook and I have been discussing a tactical module for the game, to scratch the itch that 4E migrants might be missing. You have peaked my interest greatly, sir, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. That is a scratch I like to itch.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:46
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Mikan posted:Wait are we doing this drat right we are. You may have giant bug monsters, but we have TURBODRACULA. Also, Nightfall's Realmlords fit in perfectly with the existing Icon mechanics. It's gonna be awesome.
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Sep 18, 2012 19:49
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Gau posted:drat right we are. You may have giant bug monsters, but we have TURBODRACULA. Also, Nightfall's Realmlords fit in perfectly with the existing Icon mechanics. It's gonna be awesome. I'll probably be doing some lovely homebrew, so keep an eye out for that!
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Sep 18, 2012 20:00
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Gau posted:drat right we are. You may have giant bug monsters, but we have TURBODRACULA. Also, Nightfall's Realmlords fit in perfectly with the existing Icon mechanics. It's gonna be awesome. I somehow missed out on this. What is TURBODRACULA again?
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Sep 18, 2012 20:34
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-Fish- posted:I somehow missed out on this. What is TURBODRACULA again? Basically the best thing to ever happen to RPGs. 
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Sep 18, 2012 20:51
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So far as I remember, TURBODRACULA came into being because in 4e, Vampire is a class - so you can play a Warforged Vampire. Then Red_Mage played him in Mikan's 13A playtest, and the rest is history. In Nightfall, he/it has been promoted to the Realmlord of Botrovia, the Lifeless Realm. Here's the blurb I wrote for our artist: quote:"Turbodracula" is, in a few short terms, a robot vampire. It is a warforged, a lifeless abomination of metal given a false soul to fight a war in a realm long lost. This warforged is unique, twisted into even more of a mockery of life: it has converted itself to allow it to feed on the vital fluids of other creatures. Its appearance is distinctly gothic/pre-steampunk; more Golem than anything. I imagine it walking out of a thick, red-stained mist, perhaps with hints and shadows of other mechanized abominations in the background, its armor ancient, scribed with wear over forgotten symbols. Fresh blood drips from the toothlike probes in its mouth, and its eyes glow with an unfeeling menace: you are its next victim. This is the sketch I got back: http://funtyrant.com/nightfall-teaser-turbodracula/ He's currently working on the final, which will probably be on the cover.
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Sep 18, 2012 20:57
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Red_Mage also wrote up TURBODRACULA and his entire pyramid of minions for Night's Black Agents: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3453937&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1#post405688422
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Sep 18, 2012 21:00
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That is amazing. Maybe the Awful Dungeon should be the Flying Castle of Turbodracula.
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Sep 18, 2012 21:08
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Okay, I get what race he'd be in 13A... but what class? Edit: TURBODRACULA
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Sep 18, 2012 21:14
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-Fish- posted:Okay, I get what race he'd be in 13A... but what class? Vampire, of course.
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Sep 18, 2012 21:16
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 Is there any place I can view the character sheet? I must view this glory in all its... glory.
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Sep 18, 2012 21:19
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I think the small addons are a great idea, definitely going to pick up the Escalation Die. I love weird dice so I'm even tempted to go in for the mostly-useless Prince of Shadows die.
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Sep 18, 2012 21:21
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-Fish- posted:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i0q9BJpd5T8rZ9lVohgGqCmh15bILdTpncddC-PKmb8/edit
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Sep 18, 2012 21:26
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Alright, alright, upping to Druid level plus an energy drink for Rob, the custom Escalation Die, and the Prince of Shadows die, but that's it, I'm tapped out. I preordered the drat main book and put in for the Awful Dungeon, plugged you on the other forum I frequent and recorded two APs to pimp the game. I swear to god if we don't get to the drat Battle Captain I'll scream.
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Sep 18, 2012 21:59
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I went and looked to make sure $25+ backers were already getting an icon die before I realized that's the joke.
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Sep 18, 2012 22:25
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Adding 10 bucks to get that prince of shadow die.
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Sep 18, 2012 23:28
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SageNytell posted:Alright, alright, upping to Druid level plus an energy drink for Rob, the custom Escalation Die, and the Prince of Shadows die, but that's it, I'm tapped out. I preordered the drat main book and put in for the Awful Dungeon, plugged you on the other forum I frequent and recorded two APs to pimp the game. You are a Hero of the Age. Thank you. Swagger Dagger posted:I went and looked to make sure $25+ backers were already getting an icon die before I realized that's the joke. It's really just a way for you to get another icon die if you want one. Which you might, seeing as how you can't just pop down to the game store and buy a replacement if it's lost. The Prince of Shadows die started me thinking of a campaign that ends with the Prince of Shadows being the only icon left standing...and you solemnly place that die on the table. Welcome to the new age of Shadow.
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Sep 19, 2012 00:05
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