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From the effective leftism thread:quote:Alert: An alt-right clown infiltrated a meeting and has stolen Boston DSA’s sign-in sheets and is threatening to doxx members.
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May 12, 2017 17:04
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Ruzihm posted:From the effective leftism thread: yeah people are fairly upset about this. here's the guy who stole poo poo from the meeting: https://twitter.com/Dog0fWar88
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May 12, 2017 17:06
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interpreted as nothing donated, ban queued
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May 12, 2017 17:14
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henry offenses: did not stick to initial impulse to keep charity private  unbutthurtable posted:This might not be a thing for newer, smaller chapters yet, but in NYC with like 2000 members, a problem is that there aren't super clear structures and responsibilities and so a lot depends on personal relationships. This is doesn't sound bad, but it also means that a lot of things fall through the cracks: emails don't get answered, people don't follow up, etc. It's....tricky. It seems to indeed be a thing in other chapters, from what I can tell: Business Gorillas posted:- Meetings go on for too long and we don't get a lot done in them. I'm meeting with leadership after our reading group this week to try and remedy that. Emphasis on general meetings should be discussion and engagement, not just reading off an agenda. Ruzihm posted:
I think these problems could all be helped by a common understanding of everything the chapter needs to do, and how it's divided into individual responsibilities. But that is a subject I'm monomaniacal about, so that could be bias talking.
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May 12, 2017 19:23
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Ruzihm posted:From the effective leftism thread: Here's something we started doing when we realized data entry of 200 names on a sign in poo poo really really sucked, but might actually prevent something like this: Create a Google form for sign ins, have it point to a (locked down, obviously) spreadsheet on your OC share or whatever, and then create a bit.ly link for the google form. The bit.ly link will be short enough that you can put it up on signs or projectors or whatever around the room, or put it on handouts and not have to worry about it being too long for people to type in on their phones. It's wise to still keep a sign in sheet or two around for people who would rather do that, but this saves a lot of of effort and makes that kind of thing less of a danger.
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May 12, 2017 19:55
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unbutthurtable posted:Here's something we started doing when we realized data entry of 200 names on a sign in poo poo really really sucked, but might actually prevent something like this: How does this play out with newer people? I can see this working for members, but I'd be a lot more apprehensive clicking on random links on my phone as opposed to giving people my throwaway email on a piece of paper.
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May 12, 2017 20:10
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Business Gorillas posted:How does this play out with newer people? I can see this working for members, but I'd be a lot more apprehensive clicking on random links on my phone as opposed to giving people my throwaway email on a piece of paper. I can't say we've run into a trust issue with that (yet), but we do make it a point to mention that if they prefer to sign in on paper, we have those available in the back, etc. So maybe they just do that without mentioning it. The vast, vast majority of people use the form when it's available.
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May 12, 2017 20:15
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just have people carry around the clip board and watch everyone sign in then put it away...
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May 12, 2017 20:35
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like if you have enough people that you need multiple clipboards and sheets to sign in you should have enough people you trust to keep on eye on them while ppl are signing in
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May 12, 2017 20:35
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our chapter uses a google form with a single person monitoring the laptop keeping track of it. This has the added bonus of not letting people sign in unless they give their phone number.
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May 12, 2017 20:53
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I've been quiet, but I've got an impending small roomate moving in that's probably going to take up a lot of my time for the next decade or so. I'm rather surprised I was only able to find a handful of local DSA people online, but we're holding regular monthly meetings and getting some new people interested. The problem with my handful is we can never get everyone together at one time. I'm tempted to just try an online meeting soon at some point to see what everyone's interest/willing engagement is, as we are still two people shy from siging their name to OC paperwork, and I have a husband/wife that initially said they were down to signing, then haven't responded back to that at all. I'm working with national to get in contact with some members who are just living under rocks for whatever reason. Meh.
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May 12, 2017 20:56
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Doc Hawkins posted:henry offenses: did not stick to initial impulse to keep charity private No but seriously, thanks 
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May 12, 2017 20:56
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Ace of Baes posted:like if you have enough people that you need multiple clipboards and sheets to sign in you should have enough people you trust to keep on eye on them while ppl are signing in I don't know what to tell you, this just happened to work well for us logistically and it seemed to potentially help with the security side too
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May 12, 2017 21:00
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make all of your members sign in in blood
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May 12, 2017 21:02
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Impermanent posted:our chapter uses a google form with a single person monitoring the laptop keeping track of it. This has the added bonus of not letting people sign in unless they give their phone number. we do that too (except we have multiple laptops to speed things up)
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May 12, 2017 21:39
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Business Gorillas posted:How does this play out with newer people? I can see this working for members, but I'd be a lot more apprehensive clicking on random links on my phone as opposed to giving people my throwaway email on a piece of paper. I would just have a couple of people on a table with laptops or tablets open to the sign-in page at the entrance
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May 12, 2017 23:52
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HiHo ChiRho posted:we are still two people shy from siging their name to OC paperwork, and I have a husband/wife that initially said they were down to signing, then haven't responded back to that at all. I'm working with national to get in contact with some members who are just living under rocks for whatever reason. I've been there. Keep working, and if anyone has the ability to table, try doing that at events that might pull leftists (e.g. protests or marches).
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May 13, 2017 01:15
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Business Gorillas posted:- Diversity. It's almost entirely white straight dudes with the occasional LGBTQ person rn. Apparently the last May meeting saw a huge upswing in women coming to the meeting and participating, but we still don't have a lot of PoC voices in a city that is IIRC 50% black. We have no idea how to fix this one My chapter also has this problem. That also means that I have no idea what I'm doing either, but in my mind this isn't a problem of perception. PoC don't join--not because they haven't heard of the DSA--but rather that they have no reason to. So advice like this is kind of wrongheaded, because staying the course just means that nothing will change. We can with other groups--like BLM obviously, or issue groups that disproportionally affect PoC like prison abolition groups, or even Black/Latino/Native Caucuses of the Democrats if your state has those. If those don't work, you can work to advance causes like prison abolition, amnesty for undocumented workers, a living minimum wage, or something else that would make a tangible improvement on their lives. Other then that, I think it's just a matter of being patient. If you have evidence that things are changing for the better, then it might be best for your situation to just trust in what you're doing. I'd be curious in the upswing in women attending. It might be likely that that's just an anomaly, but if you see any new faces it'd be worth your while to ask what brought them here. Can anyone from more established chapters comment on this? We need to face this sooner or later if we are ever to create popular support for left programs in America.
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May 13, 2017 02:23
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We went over this in the thread earlier, imo connect with your local BLM, NAACP, BSUs on campus, find out what they're doing, help them, support them. Every liberal and left group claims to care about POC, prove it.
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May 13, 2017 02:27
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I agree, showing up is necessary. Black and brown activists aren't going to waste their time coming to your org if you're not actually doing anything. If you have literally no leads of what you can be doing right now, then Ace of Baes' suggestion of telling more established activists that you want to join their campaigns seems like a good starting point.
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May 13, 2017 02:42
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if you have any in your area, volunteering with sanctuary churches is also a good way to build a network. and also do legit good of course.
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May 13, 2017 02:47
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Seems like if any of you are in bigger cities, you could take a nod from the Black Panthers and a run a DSA-sponsored Free Breakfast for Children program in conjunction with local churches or something. Because human beings should be good to fellow human beings 
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May 13, 2017 02:55
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logikv9 posted:
 I joined up a while back, but since there's finally a chapter close to where I live and I finally have time to attend meetings, I figured that I might as well get a gang tag too, if that's all right.
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May 13, 2017 04:59
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Hello DSA thread. 
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Corporal Beefheart posted:
This is kind of why i brought up working with local BDS groups in your area. In many cities, this is where some of your middle-easterners are. If you have women attending, you need to figure out which of them are natural leaders and immediately get them involved in leading your chapter. Same as with other minorities. There are people out there with skills you need and the diversity you lack, and the task is demonstrating to them that you are willing to listen to them. PoC don't join DSA in general because the leftists in those groups already have organizations they're invested in, and don't feel that their valuable time, already stretched thin, needs to go to your group. Your task is to demonstrate that your chapter is effective, committed, and will let them be involved in important decision making. But you only get that by actually being all three of those things. No faking here. Showing up to their events, participating, and staying involved over long periods of time, is the best way to do that.
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May 13, 2017 05:06
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I would add that it's also important to proactively keep an eye out among the ranks of the existing membership. There are people who can manage a hearteningly enthusiastic hatred for anything right of Marx, but will denounce "identity politics" as an insufficiently enlightened waste of time. Take that emotional labor on yourselves to correct people who are doing this if you are on the cishet white dude side of things. On a separate note, for any bay area goons who are interested, there's going to be an Intro to the IWW event on June 3rd at noon in the East Bay. It's free and open to the public, so come along and bring your friends. PM me or email my username @ gmail for location, and I hope to see you there!
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May 13, 2017 16:10
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The most outspoken criticizers of idpol I know are PoC, not white dudes - but there's a difference between having an ideological disagreement with a certain theoretical framework that lends itself easily to race essentialism and other bullshit (identity politics) and loudly yelling about idpol like a two year old every time a non-white non-male person has attention on them. Ideological positions can either be handled well, in constructive debate and discussion to further our theoretical understanding, or they can be used to hold court and ice people out. Don't assume that the people defending idpol are the ones endearing themselves to PoC. Our last meeting had several women and PoC complain for a good portion of the time that white dudes had to stop virtue signalling along the lines of saying we need more non-white non-males. Everyone at our meetings understands our demographic problem. It becomes performative, ritualistic bs when repeated ad infinitum.
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May 14, 2017 05:03
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The thing about the term idpol is that it means roughly four different things. Say it to one person, they think of basic civil rights. Say it to me, I think of Gloria Steinem reducing all primary election opposition to hormone-crippled youth and misogyny. Say it to another person, they think of someone riding the winds of public opinion on LGBT issues and taking credit for the Civil Rights era Democrats' accomplishments without offering material improvement to the lives of the still oppressed. And then to the fourth person, it means getting black people on your side by offering them food stamps and calling the opposition racist. If we're talking about simply being inclusive and representative of our communities we should call it that
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May 14, 2017 20:18
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All politics are identity politics.
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May 14, 2017 20:38
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Stinky_Pete posted:The thing about the term idpol is that it means roughly four different things. Say it to one person, they think of basic civil rights. Say it to me, I think of Gloria Steinem reducing all primary election opposition to hormone-crippled youth and misogyny. Say it to another person, they think of someone riding the winds of public opinion on LGBT issues and taking credit for the Civil Rights era Democrats' accomplishments without offering material improvement to the lives of the still oppressed. And then to the fourth person, it means getting black people on your side by offering them food stamps and calling the opposition racist. I personally think that we should all strike the phrase "identity politics" from our lexicon for precisely this reason. This confusion allows for miscommunication at best, and for really lovely people to slide under the radar at worst. It's really just toxic at this point.
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May 14, 2017 20:42
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Like probably don't use the term identity politics unless you're letting someone know that class and capital play the role of shaping all identity politics and acts as a primary vector of oppression for marginalized people.
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May 14, 2017 20:47
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Here are a couple of resources that I think give good insight into how socialists should conceive of or interact with the idea of "identity politics." This article was written by Hannah Sell, a member of the Socialist Party of England and Wales, Socialist Alternative's sister party in the CWI: https://www.socialistalternative.org/2015/11/02/identity-politics-struggle-oppression/ This interview with Jessa Crispin talks about the limits of feminism that is not anti-capitalist in nature: https://thisishell.com/interviews/945-jessa-crispin This interview with Jodi Dean touches on the issue at the very end around the 32 minute mark, though the whole interview is really good in general but it doesn't specifically focus on ideas related to identity politics: https://thisishell.com/interviews/942-jodi-dean For my own take, what makes us socialists is specifically our analyses that the working class is the means by which societal change is achieved. This is because working people have the unique capability through their relationship to production and the historical trends that have brought them together, to actually challenge the forces of capitalism and bring about real democracy and equality. Whether you want to liberate women, persons of color, LGBTQ individuals, anyone, the most effective and most meaningful way to do so is through the working class. That's because these individuals ARE the working class and by organizing along their shared conditions then you help to breakdown the barriers that capitalism has imposed upon them to limit and constrict their solidarity. You will never see a more diverse group than a picket line. I've been in pickets with 20 people or less where every race, color, creed, gender, and sexual identity were present. The working class is diverse and we as socialists seek to empower them. If you fight for the working class, then you will always be fighting for equality and democracy for all people.
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May 14, 2017 21:10
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imo... neoliberal identity politics coopts feminism/anti-racism/lgbtq-rights to shore up the power of capital. thats bad. however, that doesn't mean looking at the impact of gender/race/sexuality/etc has no place in leftist movements and that we should excise any consideration of that from our politics. capitalism hurts us all, but some groups (marginalized communities) get hurt more by capitalism and structures that maintain capitalism (e.g. the use of racism to divide the working class in reconstruction-era South, UK Tories slashing of benefits and outsourcing of the benefits determination program that leads to pushing people with disabilities off benefits and into subsistence-level jobs that further erode their health & quality of life while bringing subsidy money to the companies that hire them). so when i do my part to build solidarity amongst the proletariat i try to take this into account. by building the capacity amongst those who are most oppressed/marginalized to liberate themselves from capitalism, we build greater capacity to free all of us. pedagogy of the oppressed posted:This, then, is the great humanistic and historical task of the oppressed: to liberate themselves and their oppressors as well. The oppressors, who oppress, exploit, and rape by virtue of their power; cannot find in this power the strength to liberate either the oppressed or themselves. Only power that springs from the weakness of the oppressed will be sufficiently strong to free both. Any attempt to “soften” the power of the oppressor in deference to the weakness of the oppressed almost always manifests itself in the form of false generosity; indeed, the attempt never goes beyond this. In order to have the continued opportunity to express their “generosity,” the oppressors must perpetuate injustice as well. ymmv. DSA is a big tent.
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May 14, 2017 21:53
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:imo... neoliberal identity politics coopts feminism/anti-racism/lgbtq-rights to shore up the power of capital. thats bad. Yeah, my issue with neoliberals isn't idpol, it's that I, and other marginalized groups, are nothing to them but another market to be exploited. I don't believe for a second they wouldn't choose to drop idpol issues if it became more convenient.
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May 14, 2017 21:56
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Pomp posted:Yeah, my issue with neoliberals isn't idpol, it's that I, and other marginalized groups, are nothing to them but another market to be exploited. I don't believe for a second they wouldn't choose to drop idpol issues if it became more convenient. how you experience this may be driven by where you are when i lived in nyc, the fiscally conservative / socially liberal perspective, which can be reduced to "we really don't care what you look like or who you love as long as we can exploit you or sell to you" was very prevalent but down in the deep south where i grew up, and im guessing in many rural communities elsewhere, racial and other differences were used with brutal consistency and efficacy to divide people so that the interests of capital could be pursued with reckless abandon; with appalling effect for everyone involved (though obviously incomparably worse for people other than straight white men)
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May 14, 2017 22:10
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Pomp posted:Yeah, my issue with neoliberals isn't idpol, it's that I, and other marginalized groups, are nothing to them but another market to be exploited. I don't believe for a second they wouldn't choose to drop idpol issues if it became more convenient. The example I always keep in mind is how the mainstream Democratic party line became more accommodating of LGBTQ+ rights as queer capitalism ramped up. It's all ugly "us or you're hosed" tactics and unearned votes for them.
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May 15, 2017 00:31
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SomeMathGuy posted:The example I always keep in mind is how the mainstream Democratic party line became more accommodating of LGBTQ+ rights as queer capitalism ramped up. It's all ugly "us or you're hosed" tactics and unearned votes for them. There's a fairly old critique at this point related to that; the fight for gay marriage got so all-encompassing towards the end that resources for anything else seemed to actually drop, even when lgbt youth are still one of the biggest homeless demographics by far. A lot of lgbt orgs seemed to barely exist for anything else. But homeless lgbt youth don't have the affluence of a Barney Frank (who, along with HRC, ended up often being more a detriment than a help by acting like a gatekeeper of what queer rights bills would look like in congress).
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May 15, 2017 00:38
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Agnosticnixie posted:There's a fairly old critique at this point related to that; the fight for gay marriage got so all-encompassing towards the end that resources for anything else seemed to actually drop, even when lgbt youth are still one of the biggest homeless demographics by far. A lot of lgbt orgs seemed to barely exist for anything else. I agree with this critique. As I often joke, gay marriage is legal because Anthony Kennedy realized that gay people can also be rich white cis men. Cis gay men have been accepted into the elite, and there they can agitate for the only LGBTQ+ rights issue that affects then personally. You see it in liberal corporate PR that's proudly celebrating their commitment to diversity by talking about the gay white cis men they employ in elite positions while still being complicit in exploitative practices towards the 99%. Also ChickenOfTomorrow and apropos to nothing I enjoyed your last posts itt. Shear Modulus has issued a correction as of 21:01 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 20:58
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thing
ChickenOfTomorrow has issued a correction as of 22:11 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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May 15, 2017 21:54
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hey the DSA-endorsed candidate just won the primary race for District Attorney of Philadelphia https://twitter.com/CBSPhilly/status/864658878599921665 https://twitter.com/ptrmsk/status/864657636284928004
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May 17, 2017 02:53
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DSA national backing the ATT strike. Click here to find a picket line! https://actionnetwork.org/event_campaigns/strike-at-att-mobility?source=DSA
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May 18, 2017 20:21
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