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Gologle posted:I'm pretty sure this is a sign that you need to quit this. Not that you aren't a great LPer (you are!) but this hack doesn't really deserve it. Boo! You cannot let your PC win this! I'm sure that is only the last desperate measure to prevent you from completing this great LP. It will hopefully work out in the end.
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Mar 16, 2014 08:50
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Gologle posted:I'm pretty sure this is a sign that you need to quit this. Not that you aren't a great LPer (you are!) but this hack doesn't really deserve it. Oh hush you.
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Mar 16, 2014 09:29
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Gologle posted:I'm pretty sure this is a sign that you need to quit this. Not that you aren't a great LPer (you are!) but this hack doesn't really deserve it. What. All he has left to do is the Murond chain, and then he can elect whether or not he wants to do Deep Dungeon. 
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Mar 18, 2014 23:56
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So, uh, how about that Delita fellow eh?
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Apr 23, 2014 15:11
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Alkarl posted:So, uh, how about that Delita fellow eh? He's a real bastard, for sure.
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Apr 23, 2014 16:26
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Declan MacManus posted:He's a real bastard, for sure. Is he though? I mean he certainly does some bastardly things, but it isn't as though he's any worse than any of the other major players. Larg and Goltanna want to plunge Ivalice back into war when it hasn't recovered from the last one cause they want the big chair. Dycedarg poisoned his dad and betrayed his lord even before he got all satany. Even Zalbag, who was horrified at his father's murder, was only kinda sad when he ordered the death of Delita's sister. And Delita went out of his way to save T.G. Cid and send him to Ramza to help. What's more, we know that historically he's seen as a hero. I'm just saying that while he certainly isn't the hero like Ramza, the only person he really manipulates unduly is the princess. And probably Ramza I guess.
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Apr 23, 2014 18:48
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It's been way too long, so I don't remember his motivations clearly anymore, but it's obvious enough that he wants personal gain from all of his activities. Is he working towards any more social change or progress as well anymore, is has that been dropped?
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Apr 23, 2014 18:52
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Delita gets upset about being a powerless pawn in the machinations of people more important than himself and his sister, and vows to become one of those powerful people to prevent further deaths like hers. Somewhere along the way, though, he begins to lose sight of the more noble part of his goal and is mostly just left with the desire to be the one using people instead of the one being used. Just how much of his original intention remains is kinda debatable. He's a backstabbing pragmatist, but he seems to have some principles.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:02
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:It's been way too long, so I don't remember his motivations clearly anymore, but it's obvious enough that he wants personal gain from all of his activities. Is he working towards any more social change or progress as well anymore, is has that been dropped? Social change is kind of the premise upon which he takes the reigns of the revolution and apparently history remembers him as a benevolent ruler so I imagine he does a lot of good after the story (or is perceived that way). That's what the framing device would suggest, anyways.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:27
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Declan MacManus posted:Social change is kind of the premise upon which he takes the reigns of the revolution and apparently history remembers him as a benevolent ruler so I imagine he does a lot of good after the story (or is perceived that way). That's what the framing device would suggest, anyways. Yeah, just because he had to be an rear end in a top hat to become king doesn't change the fact that he made a drat fine one. Besides the only nice blue bloods we see are Ramza who peaces out when he sees something that shakes his faith in the nobility and T.G. Cid who drat near gets himself executed because his lord doesn't like his combination of kindness and power. Delita just decides to play the game which tends not to be great for his reputation for those who know. And seriously comes back to bite him towards the end game.
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Apr 23, 2014 20:03
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Whether Delita does genuine good kinda depends on perspective because the situation Ivalice is in during the course of the game is absolute poo poo. Just ending the fighting alone would get him hailed as a saint because people are so tired of it. Whether he actually resolved situations like the Death Corps' complaints about mistreatment of commoners or addressed the issues with famine and stuff, I'm not sure we know. Granted, Delita did make every effort to put a stop to the War of the Lions, so in that sense his scheming was genuinely good for the country. It's just his motives are more questionable than Ramza's, who did what he did because he genuinely thought it was the right thing to do. Delita's issues definitely interfere with his doing the right thing. On the other hand Alzalam is a kooky conspiracy-theorist historian (Cid was totally alive, guys!) so he might also be downplaying Delita's nature just to talk up Ramza's. The entire story is a lot funnier when viewed as the ramblings of an unreliable narrator who thinks Jesus was a demon.
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Apr 23, 2014 20:25
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Nakar posted:On the other hand Alzalam is a kooky conspiracy-theorist historian (Cid was totally alive, guys!) so he might also be downplaying Delita's nature just to talk up Ramza's. The entire story is a lot funnier when viewed as the ramblings of an unreliable narrator who thinks Jesus was a demon. What do you mean, of course one of Alzalam's ancestors could stop the very stars!
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Apr 23, 2014 20:36
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I really really liked both Delita and Weigraf, they spoke out to the discontent 99%er in me. Sure Weigraf loses himself to demons and gives up his ideals for power (I bet that was heartbreaking for him at the time...  ) and Delia manipulates and betrays everyone who trusts and loves him while murdering countless innocent people to get to the top. He's a legit benevolent dictator who did some cold and ruthless calculus. A lot of the killing wasn't by his order either, he just took advantage of it. Regardless of how many millions he had killed or killed himself it did ultimately result in him murdering the right people.Sure, Ramza was a hero and saved the world from the darker and more occult dangers in the world but Delita was the right kind of savior savior for Ivalice. The rampant corruption inherent in the nobility and the system as a whole required--no demanded those brutal methods. His actions were probably the ONLY ones that would have worked to make any REAL change in the world. He was a revolutionary. He's pretty much the best JRPG Torrannor posted:What do you mean, of course one of Alzalam's ancestors could stop the very stars! I do love the fan theory that the Church lost so much favor that is discovered and embraced Durai's insane, heretical, writings as one last ditch gambit to retain at least some level of influence in the world after everything hit the fan after Delita settled poo poo. Durai made this headcannon up is a pretty hilarious interpretation. Jenner fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 23:16
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Jenner posted:
I mean he's just submitting a historical theory (probably a book, maybe a long paper). I always kind of accepted the translation gibberish as "some of Durai's primary sources are poo poo." If his writing actually includes all of the violence that the game does, he's probably going to get sent to the loony bin for writing the academic equivalent of gore-porn.
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Apr 24, 2014 00:04
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There ism't any reason to doubt Durai's report, it's a silly idea dramatically.
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Apr 24, 2014 00:25
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Jenner posted:Sure Weigraf loses himself to demons and gives up his ideals for power (I bet that was heartbreaking for him at the time... I don't know he had much chance to be heartbroken. I mean he's lying in a pool of his own lungs and up pops Velius all "Hey there, you appear to be bleeding to death! Would you like to not do that? Y/N" And then he was a demon from beyond space and time. Probably not much time for regrets, is what I'm saying. Tulip posted:If his writing actually includes all of the violence that the game does, he's probably going to get sent to the loony bin for writing the academic equivalent of gore-porn. Presumably he's summarizing. Any alleged history that includes verbatim spoken dialog between people who have been dead for centuries is proooooobably not going to fly far in academia.
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Apr 24, 2014 00:43
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We don't actually know if they "become" the demons(no John, you are the demons lol!), and/or how much they influence their hosts. Due to Wiefgraf's drastic change, it is probably significant. Maybe I'm thinking too deeply into this. Where the gently caress did Zalbag go anyway?
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Apr 24, 2014 00:55
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Wonderslug posted:I don't know he had much chance to be heartbroken. I mean he's lying in a pool of his own lungs and up pops Velius all "Hey there, you appear to be bleeding to death! Would you like to not do that? Y/N" And then he was a demon from beyond space and time. He joined the temple knights an abandoned his more revolutionary goals well before Ramza kicks his poo poo in. That moment where he makes that decision and the moments leading up to it were probably super sad for him. A broken man with a broken dream, no wonder he responds so negatively to Ramza calling him out. By the time he runs across Ramza again he seems to, at first, view him as an opportunity to finally do right by his sister ("I'll avenge her!") Before going all gently caress it. TL;DR he was already broken and lost by that point. But the part of his story we don't see, that lead up to him getting there, that's the heartbreak part. Charles Bukowski posted:Where the gently caress did Zalbag go anyway? Zalbag is dead, and then redead.
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Apr 24, 2014 01:30
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He went away in a poof of stars or some poo poo. Peeps don't die like that!
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Apr 24, 2014 01:43
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So basically what I'm seeing here is Delita is a social justice warrior and Ramza is an OG thug from the hood. Also that stars and Alakazam from Pokemon got really high.
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Apr 24, 2014 01:48
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Jenner posted:Zalbag is dead, and then redead.  You know, that explains why that second fight really freaks me the gently caress out. Even though it isn't hard, it's just... discomforting.
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Apr 24, 2014 01:52
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Gologle posted:So basically what I'm seeing here is Delita is a social justice warrior and Ramza is an OG thug from the hood. Also that stars and Alakazam from Pokemon got really high. Not exactly but I vaguely remember a part of the game where dialog with an enemy in the game which consisted of something like, "think of the innocents, the poor and the common who are suffering!" to which Ramza replies, "I don't care!!"that kinda ruined a bit of my support of him. But he's far from a thug. He's born the blueset of bluebloods and everything is handed to him even though he's a bastard. (Literally, his mom is different from Dyce and Zal's) He isn't doing what he does for himself, it's all about trying to 'do the right thing.' But he's been raised in a bubble and chooses 'right' contextually. He's not the 99%, he's just ignorant and well-meaning. Delita's character progression can be summed up in a straight diagram: Hang out with best friend-->meet rear end in a top hat, hate him-->be conflicted about class differences-->fuckers killed my sister gently caress them-->if you can't beat them, join them then beat them-->holyshitprincess-->BETRAY/MANIPULATE every one every day-->It's good to be king. Jenner fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 15:35
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Jenner posted:Not exactly but I vaguely remember a part of the game where dialog with an enemy in the game which consisted of something like, "think of the innocents, the poor and the common who are suffering!" to which Ramza replies, "I don't care!!"that kinda ruined a bit of my support of him. But he's far from a thug. He's born the blueset of bluebloods and everything is handed to him even though he's a bastard. (Literally, his mom is different from Dyce and Zal's) He isn't doing what he does for himself, it's all about trying to 'do the right thing.' But he's been raised in a bubble and chooses 'right' contextually. He's not the 99%, he's just ignorant and well-meaning. Ramza's not a bastard, his mom was married to his dad (First wife died, he remarried, etc), but his mother was not of noble birth, and that's why he's looked down upon. Also, are you sure that was Ramza who said he didn't care? Do you remember which battle that was?
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Apr 24, 2014 15:50
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Jenner posted:
It's entirely possible that I'm making this up, but I always got the impression that this is another thing that Delita was counting on. Ramza is entirely unsuited for the political reality of Ivalice. He's a strong fighter, but naive about... anything that isn't applying a liberal amount of sword to a problem. Which makes him perfectly suited to fight the Lucavi. Give a morally white person a morally grey problem and he'll have no idea what to do. Give him a morally black problem and he'll be right at home. And it makes Delita's life easier since he'd have to know the church would need to be dealt with since he started out as one of their agents.
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Apr 24, 2014 20:25
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Ryushikaze posted:Ramza's not a bastard, his mom was married to his dad (First wife died, he remarried, etc), but his mother was not of noble birth, and that's why he's looked down upon. Draclau: Gafgarion is not as good as he says... Or was it bad luck? Anyhow, you're good. You have Beoulve blood in your veins. Even if you are a bastard. Might be an unreliable source though. I just assume Balby married Ramza's mom after Ramza popped out to do the proper thing and then Alma came along too. quote:Also, are you sure that was Ramza who said he didn't care? Do you remember which battle that was? Nooo, it's just a vague memory. I looked up a script because I was so sure he said something to that effect, but looking through it I actually can't find the text. So, it must have just been a brainfart. Sorry about that. I did find this though: SPOILERS WE HAVE NOT SEEN THIS CONVERSATION IN THE LP YET. Balk: I'm above 'death'. At the top of the human race. Now I don't have to endure unjust treatment by you aristocrats!! I've won true 'freedom'! I'm a true 'human being'! I will be treated 'equally' now!! Ramza: A real 'human being'? Don't make me laugh!! How valuable is a 'freedom' you didn't earn yourself? The moment 'pride' is lost, 'freedom' is also lost...!! You lost your freedom when you lost your pride and confidence....!! 'Equality's not something you're given! It's something you fight for!! Any 'freedom' gotten from Lucavi isn't true freedom.  Kid is naive as gently caress, too good for this world indeed.
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Apr 25, 2014 00:16
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Jenner posted:Draclau: Gafgarion is not as good as he says... Or was it bad Balbanes may actually never have married Ramza's mother. The PSP manual refers to Ramza as 'The issue of his father's paramour, a baseborn woman of the Lugria family', and paramour isn't a word I'd expect to see applied to a wife. It may be in fact entirely correct for Gafgarion to call him a bastard (of a good and apparently long-term relationship, mind, but there may not actually have been a marriage). Both of Ramza's half-brothers are much older than he is (Zalbag is 12 years older and Dycedarg is 21 years older than Ramza), so if I was guessing I'd say it happened entirely after Zalbag and Dycedarg's mother's death, though. Prism fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 01:17
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Jenner posted:Balk: I'm above 'death'. At the top of the human race. Now I Amazing lines, even if the writing isn't that great, the message is very strong. I wonder what Anita Sarkeesian would say about FFT, Agrias, and "Equality".
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Apr 25, 2014 01:54
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All systems are go. Expect an update this weekend.
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Apr 26, 2014 03:25
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Prufrock and Archael come back from hiatus on the same day? Has anyone seen the two of them in the same room? 
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Apr 26, 2014 03:52
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Jenner posted:Draclau: Gafgarion is not as good as he says... Or was it bad Ramza's real into the idea of bootstrapping
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Apr 27, 2014 03:59
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Hall of Murond Cathedral The time has come to confront Vormav, leader of the Templars, in his seat of power.  Accompanying him are his two henchmen, Rofel (whom we've already seen) and the sorcerer Kletian.   Vormav wastes little time on pleasantries. His terms aren't exactly favorable, but he also doesn't leave much room for negotiation.  Unfortunately, our protagonist doesn't know how important the Germonik Scriptures are to the Lucavi's plot.  As far the party knows, the Church wants the Scriptures to keep the truth about Ajora under wraps.  We, of course, have just learned of their role in the resurrection of 'Bloody Angel'.  We also know that Alma is an important part of the same, so there's no chance that Vormav will give her up.  This scene makes our hero seem sort of... stupid, really, but that's largely because he's working with woefully incomplete information.  On the other hand, trusting Vormav at all is still pretty dumb. Dude is host to a demon and killed his own son in cold blood.  And remember where we ended up the last time we tried to negotiate for Alma's release using the Germonik Scriptures?  Yeah. So while our hero deserves some slack for acting on an incomplete view of the situation...  ...the kid's not the sharpest knife in the weapon shop.  The mission objective tells us that we need to defeat Vormav, but that's actually a lie. Bringing any of the three Templars to critical is enough for a win.  This is helpful, because Vormav is a brick shithouse. Boss defenses, 999 health, Protect and Shell, and Damage Split. Yikes.  Kletian, his Sorcerer crony, is a softer target. Hamedo won't save him from ranged attacks.  Rofel is probably the best damage-dealer of the three (though they're all so strong it barely matters); his version of All Magic has some nasty enemy-only skills. The takeaway from these stat screens is that the Templar leadership are serious badasses with crazy stacks, unique skills, and ultra-rare equipment. Speaking of...  Unlike Vormav or Kletian, Rofel does not have Maintenance equipped. Yes, the Chaos Blade, the most powerful Knight Sword, can be stolen, and you better believe it will be.  Just like so. Marche is specifically kitted out as a Speed-freak Thief to do nothing but snag it before anyone else acts.  Everyone on Team Hero has Maintenance equipped, so Vormav goes straight to melee, and boy does he hit hard. Good thing everyone also gear that grants Reraise.  His mission complete, Marche is dropped in one blow by a barehanded Rofel. Nobody cares, though, because we've already got the Knight Sword.  Kletian's version of All Magic is actually made up of (mostly) spells the player can access. Here he drops a Blizzard on the three standing party-members for 300+ damage. Oh, and he does it instantly, because as a Sorcerer he has innate Non-Charge.  However, that was exactly what Team Hero wanted him to do, because everyone also has Damage Split equipped.  Hombre is already down half his health and nobody's even attacked him yet.  Meliadoul has a special dialogue if you bring her along for this fight.   I really enjoy small touches like this.   It helps remind you that your party-members are more than just sets of skills and abilities which is important in a game with such a big cast. It's easy to overlook characters that spend most of their time sitting in your roster.   Honestly, the game could have used a lot more incidental dialogue. A lot of characters, like Orlandu, really don't ever speak again after joining the crew, leaving the player with only a distant impression of their personalities.  This isn't specific to FFT; it's not at all uncommon in SRPGs.  Still, it's probably the biggest weakness in FFT's writing, and a lot more of the kind exchanges we just saw really would have helped.  Kletian still has a few hundred HP to burn through, but he can't Hamedo sword skills so this is pretty much already in the bag.   I think our brilliant protagonist might be starting to catch on!  Oh hey, Kletian has some Evasio-    Fortunately, Prufrock is there to save the day with a well-timed Jump.  And there you have it.  “Next time, Gadget. Neeeexxxt tiiiiimmmeee!”  So of course the three of them all peace out, Germonik Scriptures in hand, Alma nowhere to be seen.  Somehow, the kid is still surprised by this schtick. 
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Apr 27, 2014 04:14
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J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Honestly, the game could have used a lot more incidental dialogue. A lot of characters, like Orlandu, really don't ever speak again after joining the crew, leaving the player with only a distant impression of their personalities. This always surprised/confused me. Once you have a system built for it, incidental dialogue is probably one of the less resource-intensive things to add to a game.
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Apr 27, 2014 04:41
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Seriously. Once people have joined your team, I can only think of about two instances of them talking- Agrias at the Execution Site, and Meliadoul here. I understand they can't make any of the dialog important, since only Ramza is sure to be in the battles, but it still seemed like a huge wasted opportunity.
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Apr 27, 2014 04:47
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It seems like most of the FFT characters get less characterization than even the average FF6 character. WotL fixes it a bit with Beowulf, Reis, Agrias, Meliadoul, Delita and Ovelia getting addition lines in the new battles, but the rest of the cast remains underdeveloped.
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Apr 27, 2014 05:01
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Schwartzcough posted:Seriously. Once people have joined your team, I can only think of about two instances of them talking- Agrias at the Execution Site, and Meliadoul here. I understand they can't make any of the dialog important, since only Ramza is sure to be in the battles, but it still seemed like a huge wasted opportunity. Kletian was the villains' version of this, since he's just dropped in without any fanfare. WotL at least tries to fix this by giving him an extra battle on the way to Igros, and gives Meliadoul some more incidental dialogue, too. But it also further shafted Orlandu by making his only added dialogue being a lame threat against a bunch of random nobodies in a new quest.
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Apr 27, 2014 05:22
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It was a lot better in Tactics Ogre. Some characters are downright chatty with some NPCs, especially in the remake. Tactics Ogre even has some dialogue and a mission or two that actually differ (or are only available) if a character is dead.
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Apr 27, 2014 05:58
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Nakar posted:It was a lot better in Tactics Ogre. Some characters are downright chatty with some NPCs, especially in the remake. Tactics Ogre even has some dialogue and a mission or two that actually differ (or are only available) if a character is dead. The Ogre Battle series in general is actually very good with providing lots of these little backstory messages - the original March of the Black Queen and especially Ogre Battle 64 are filled with little dialogue boxes with named enemies. Honestly, they're sometime too good at it though. Since it's got the squad based system going on, the messages are tripped prior to the start of the battle and they only show ONE scene per battle (hard to do it mid-battle like FFT does). So if you have five different characters with history with the boss (not uncommon for big name enemies), you need to intentionally engage the enemy, immediately retreat, then re-engage the boss several times to trigger and view all the conversations.
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Apr 27, 2014 12:35
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MagusofStars posted:The Ogre Battle series in general is actually very good with providing lots of these little backstory messages - the original March of the Black Queen and especially Ogre Battle 64 are filled with little dialogue boxes with named enemies. There are also an absurd amount of quest paths you get locked out from if character x doesn't tell antagonist y he's a shithead or whatever. I think that only applies to ogre battle and not tactics ogre, though. Unless the remake is less forgiving in that regard.
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Apr 27, 2014 13:33
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FairGame posted:There are also an absurd amount of quest paths you get locked out from if character x doesn't tell antagonist y he's a shithead or whatever. I think that only applies to ogre battle and not tactics ogre, though. Unless the remake is less forgiving in that regard. Oh the remake has a ton of that. You need to do it multiple times times through multiple battles to get some characters.
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Apr 27, 2014 15:04
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The remake also has a pretty genius 'warp anywhere in the story you want' system once you beat the game though (and you can rewind battles at any time, something accessible from the start). It kinda owns in general.
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May 4, 2014 19:45
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