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Actually, their short range torps have about the highest damage of any DDs, barring the IJN Type 93s. You definitely keep good damage and speed in exchange for the poo poo range. US still probably gets the best torps overall at t9/10 though.
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Dec 7, 2016 12:50
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I can't really determine the german DD line gimmick. They have kinda OK torps I guess.
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Dec 7, 2016 12:59
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I think the German dd gimmick is going to be hydro. Also, I know I've been watching too many flamu vids when I read wows stuff with his voice. Right now I'm really practicing situational awareness via the minimap. I tend to tunnel vision way too much. Moral_Hazard fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 13:09
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MoraleHazard posted:Also, right now I'm really practicing situational awareness via the minimap. I tend to tunnel vision way too much. This. I need to do this. Or not be the one pushing. Because I'll be leading a push at a cap with a group of ships then suddenly alone and dead because the rest of my team turned around and fled because they started getting shot at and I didn't notice until I'm being focused fire by 6 reds. It isn't 15 vs 15. It really is you vs 29 others.
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Dec 7, 2016 13:27
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MoraleHazard posted:I think the German dd gimmick is going to be hydro. When I started focusing more on the map my WTR went up significantly, that and making sure I don't over extend myself, yes he might only need one more volley to kill him but it that makes me drift too far into the open it's not worth it.
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Dec 7, 2016 14:03
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Reindeer Flotilla posted:So I've gotten back into playing lately, and with the nerf to my beloved Minekaze I'm looking for another tree to start working in. I've dabbled in US and JP carriers (not bad, but a bit boring after awhile), US BB's (too slow, plus I think my New York actually hates fun), JP cruisers (struggled with the transition to the Aoba), and most recently, German BB's (still trying them). I feel like IJN DDs are still in a decent place, at least in t6-t7 where I have IJN DDs. Regarding the Aoba, it's a strong ship. It has good stealth, good guns, good fire chance, and decent torps. It's better than the Furutaka for sure. The New York was meh for me, but I was still fairly new to WoWs at that time too. US BBs from T6 on are pretty great, even if the speed is subpar until T8. I think the remedy is to keep on playing the different ships and improve your positioning (and watch the minimap). Positioning is more than half the battle regardless of what ship line you are playing. Plus, the more familiar you are with each ship, the easier it is to fight against them in battle.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:23
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The Aoba is not particularly an upgrade on the Furutaka ever since they gave Furutaka the C hull. In fact, Aoba is just a Furutaka C hull, one tier higher. The Furutaka C is OP as hell at tier 5, while the Aoba is just "okay" at tier 6 (it has noticably worse torp arcs and reload speed than the Furutaka for instance). The gun reload speed is boosted noticably, but not to the point where you can fistfight Clevelands and win. They have the same top speed and armor, the Aoba has a slightly worse turret traverse and rudder shift but slightly better range on the guns. The big shift in the line is between the Kuma to the Furutaka, the rest of the line pretty much plays like the Taco/Aoba but better.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:34
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MoraleHazard posted:Also, I know I've been watching too many flamu vids when I read wows stuff with his voice. I would recommend Flamu's videos to pretty much anyone who likes this game and is struggling to be a solid player. In every video regardless of the ship he's commentating on he hammers home some general points that are *generally true* for almost all ships. He's spent almost an entire week commentating on the Des Moines, showing off how powerful of a ship it is if used properly since apparently people have been crapping on that ship recently. It's made me want to take the - rather harrowing - trek up the US Cruiser tree just so I can get it.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:33
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I should ask Flamu sometimes what his T10 cruiser ranking is. I'd assume it's Zao, Des Moines, Minotaur, Moskva, Hindenburg but I'm not sure.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:35
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wdarkk posted:I should ask Flamu sometimes what his T10 cruiser ranking is. I'd assume it's Zao, Des Moines, Minotaur, Moskva, Hindenburg but I'm not sure. He's been pretty clear that his top pick is the Zao for sure. Beyond that I'm not sure what the order is. Flamu has a general theme to all his commentaries that all ships are individually viable and good in their own ways and that there are few really *bad* ships, which can make it hard to pick out what his picks for best in class/tier are for certain things.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:43
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Vengarr posted:The Aoba is not particularly an upgrade on the Furutaka ever since they gave Furutaka the C hull. In fact, Aoba is just a Furutaka C hull, one tier higher. The Furutaka C is OP as hell at tier 5, while the Aoba is just "okay" at tier 6 (it has noticably worse torp arcs and reload speed than the Furutaka for instance). The gun reload speed is boosted noticably, but not to the point where you can fistfight Clevelands and win. They have the same top speed and armor, the Aoba has a slightly worse turret traverse and rudder shift but slightly better range on the guns. I see. I played the taco before it had the c hull.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:48
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book posted:I feel like IJN DDs are still in a decent place, at least in t6-t7 where I have IJN DDs. I'm doing ok with the nerved IJN destroyers. I can still get top score with an Isokaze. The Fubuki is a useful DD for T6 and I'll usually get 5 or 6 torpedo hits. The Kagero at T8 is particularly nice, even if it doesn't have the 15km torpedoes the old T8 Fubuki had.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:03
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So because I was bored, I did a stat-by-stat comparison of Missouri to Iowa. -Survivability: Same hp, better armor in (important) places, torpedo protection is somehow the same despite a decent chunk of the increased armor being a thicker torpedo bulge -Guns: -AA: Loses 18 DPS off her 2.0 km guns, gains 16 DPS on her 3.5 km ones. So much for this being the point Iowa is supposedly better at. -Maneuverability: Has a 0.1 second better rudder shift -Concealment: Has 0.5 km less detectability -Bonuses: Radar is so much better than a plane on Iowa it's not even funny Yeah, I'm going to file this under gently caress you WG, putting in yet another premium that's the same or better than the tech tree version in literally every respect after claiming repeatedly they're not supposed to be. The Range, Maneuverability and Concealment improvements are especially grating - they're so small why are they better than Iowa in the first place? Let alone it mostly only being available to massive whales, as the pricing for it massively breaks the pricing progression of any previous tier. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 18:14
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I can tell you why it is worse. Everyone will want you dead. The second I see a Missouri I will drop everything to kill it.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:37
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Even with the better armor it is still really squishy when broadside. The Missouri that ended up on my team got deleted just as easily as any Iowa I've seen. The NC and Iowa should come with a giant loving sign that says "don't show your broadside to anything" or - as another poster mentioned - "I am really a Dunkerque." It really is the number one thing required to play it well. Like, I understand that other ships get deleted when broadside too, but I find in my personal experience that the NC and Iowa in particular are basically free multiple citadel salvos. They take the "don't sail broadside" rule to its extreme conclusion.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:50
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Ice Fist posted:He's been pretty clear that his top pick is the Zao for sure. Beyond that I'm not sure what the order is. I don't even play anymore and I still like to watch his vids because he managed to make WoWS look interesting and fun.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:54
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I don't really know how people eat up credits quickly enough to need a $130 credit printer, but maybe it's easier for me to save them because I tend to work on 1, maybe 2 lines at a time. I have the NC with premium camo plus a handful of lower tier premium ships that do just fine, I can't really justify paying for the conversion or bothering trying to grind it out with true FXP.
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Dec 7, 2016 19:09
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Ice Fist posted:Even with the better armor it is still really squishy when broadside. The Missouri that ended up on my team got deleted just as easily as any Iowa I've seen. Any IJN BBs too. German ships are the only ones who can avoid taking massive CIT damage (although they can still take massive pen damage over several volleys). This is why they can be so much fun to brawl with. You can take evasive maneuvers and turn around without being overly worried that you will lose half your HP from one volley while broadside. Worst case scenario is usually a fourth or fifth of your hp. I've been playing so long now and my aim is that if I see a tier 7+ non-German BB fully broadside, I get super excited. So don't ever show those broadsides especially against good players.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:01
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Ice Fist posted:I would recommend Flamu's videos to pretty much anyone who likes this game and is struggling to be a solid player. In every video regardless of the ship he's commentating on he hammers home some general points that are *generally true* for almost all ships. I've learned a lot from his videos, that's for sure, especially the *generally true* stuff. I've been doing the US Cruiser line. I don't know why, but I jive to it even though they're in a tougher place compared to the alternatives. wdarkk posted:I should ask Flamu sometimes what his T10 cruiser ranking is. I'd assume it's Zao, Des Moines, Minotaur, Moskva, Hindenburg but I'm not sure. I don't know his rank of enjoyability, but he does the least damage, but with the highest XP and best win rate in the Des Moines: https://eu.warships.today/player/529265619/Flamu It's interesting that his average XP is about double the server average for what I would think are "strong" ships and 50% higher for the weak ships. His win rate on weak ships isn't much higher than the server's. Looking at Flamu's stats is a really good indication of what ships can carry and which even he struggles to carry a match.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:20
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It's also a good indicator that damage done really is the most important stat. If you average 79k damage a match, your team will win a lot.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:35
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Surprised he only manages barely 50% wr in the colorado and NC
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Dec 7, 2016 22:46
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Vengarr posted:It's also a good indicator that damage done really is the most important stat. If you average 79k damage a match, your team will win a lot. Which only comes if you try to stay alive longer. The longer you stay alive, the more damage you can put out. The more you put out, the better your odds at winning. This is an odd set of obvious rules most pubbies forget. Or, they remember rule 1 of staying alive longer, but forget rule 2 and 3 by hiding as far away from the battle as possible.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:48
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Ice Fist posted:The NC and Iowa should come with a giant loving sign that says "don't show your broadside to anything" or - as another poster mentioned - "I am really a Dunkerque." It really is the number one thing required to play it well. Like, I understand that other ships get deleted when broadside too, but I find in my personal experience that the NC and Iowa in particular are basically free multiple citadel salvos. They take the "don't sail broadside" rule to its extreme conclusion. Pretty much this. While NC does have a bit more opportunity to redeploy to another part of the map by making more agile turns, generally you live and die on the side of the map that you find yourself on. I see my job as an NC to point myself toward the enemy and be a giant damage tank/obstacle for whichever objective is in front of me. Of course I don't risk myself uselessly, but I move in behind the DDs, take advantage of their smokes when they let me and delete cruisers that try to threaten our objective cappers and drive off other BBs. You can absorb high amounts of damage that would otherwise be aimed at more fragile teammates but its up to them to make use of it (hint: they don't).
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Dec 7, 2016 23:15
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Gwaihir posted:Actually, their short range torps have about the highest damage of any DDs, barring the IJN Type 93s. You definitely keep good damage and speed in exchange for the poo poo range. US still probably gets the best torps overall at t9/10 though. Is that a higher tier thing? The Derzki has pretty naff damage it feels like, but as I said you get a shitload of them so I don't mind.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:44
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E Equals MC Hammer posted:I can't really determine the german DD line gimmick. They have kinda OK torps I guess. they're really fat, have pretty ok guns, and the ridiculous german hydro they're also really loving fat and easy to hit
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Dec 8, 2016 01:47
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OwlFancier posted:Is that a higher tier thing? The Derzki has pretty naff damage it feels like, but as I said you get a shitload of them so I don't mind. Yea the Dzerki is poo poo. Short ranged slow torps that do like 3k less damage than US or JP DDs at the same tier. Then when you hit T5 the damage more than doubles and they gain 15 knots of speed.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:59
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OwlFancier posted:Is that a higher tier thing? The Derzki has pretty naff damage it feels like, but as I said you get a shitload of them so I don't mind. I mainly use Russian DD torps for self-defense or when I saw gently caress it and YOLO charge when I am about to die. For that they are great because at that range and speed, you will hit your target. Low tier DD torp damage is kind of low, but they can spam them. That changes a little as you go higher in the tiers, but their torps are still used in the same way. USN DD's torps and usage is a whole different matter. USN's DD are hunters and knife fighters. Their torp and gun balance is perfect for that role.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:15
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The Derzki is amazing and shits out torps all day.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:21
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Yea that's the thing I guess, the low tier DDs have super fast reloads on their torps.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:27
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The Derzki is terrifying in straits and enclosed areas. I'm somewhat ambivalent towards German DDs. I'll probably end up playing them regardless of their fatness just to be a bully with hydro considering how much I enjoy doing so in Lo Yang.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:29
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At low tiers the Russian DD's play like low tier USN DD's just without the rainbow guns. You hug islands to ambush and fight over caps. At those ranges, torp ranges don't mean much, but speed and damage do. Game play changes at tier 5 for them. Has the cruiser meta game play changed in the last patch or two? I took a couple months off and now instead of dying in the 1st 5 minutes I am surviving until the end game and scoring in the top of this list with them. My BB game has gone down and my DD game is about the same. The only thing I am doing different is that I am making a focused effort to support DD's capping and hugging islands like a DD. I am also slowly going up the RN cruiser line and I am enjoying them a lot. They play like a big USN DD. I think I might like the German DD's since they sound like DD killers. Something between the USN and Russian DD's. Tier II & III DD's look fun with those bow torp launchers. I also hate the changes to IJN DD's. They are near useless now and they are so easy to kill now. I have given up on that line.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:43
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Minenfeld! posted:The Derzki is amazing and shits out torps all day. Yeah as I said I don't think it's a bad ship because it's got more torpedoes than any other ship I've played, and the guns are alright too. The short range is a fair tradeoff.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:58
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 zao is 
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Dec 8, 2016 03:27
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I really should play my Zao more, but I have so many other things to play.
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Dec 8, 2016 03:35
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Minotaur: Yeah I'm totally safe behind these rocks Not pictured: wdarkk getting Yamato'd pretty hard in his Bismark
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Dec 8, 2016 04:31
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In my only game tonight we had a Missouri on our team. Tier X game, and he promptly racks up a Kraken, including a radar-assisted Shima kill. One of the opposing Montanas implied that he preferred the company of gentlemen.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:39
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Hazdoc posted:they're really fat, have pretty ok guns, and the ridiculous german hydro Yeah I ran into the tier X one tonight and realized he had the Hipper/Bismark hydro. loving pain in the rear end when hiding in smoke but much easier to hit when out in the open compared to a Russian DD.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:55
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looks like german DDs will be brawly version of the rus DDs, better at fighting in and around smoke, worse at kiting at range, seems like they have a higher RoF but probably inferior HE (if they follow the vein of lovely german HE, good german AP) they'll be strong contenders for the cap kings against US DDs, especially if their fatness also grants them some armor to blunt some HE damage occasionally haven't seen much on the torps but I imagine they won't be amazing because wargaming hates torps AND FUN Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 05:01
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To Missouri, or not to Missouri...
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Dec 8, 2016 06:44
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What else are going to spend it on if not that?
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Dec 8, 2016 07:08
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