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If y'all haven't watched PBS' four-parter on the Clintons, you really should. Especially if you weren't old enough to vote for them. Seeing how they both worked together to make it to the '92 election and then deal with Gingrich for six years says quite a bit about why they're both the way they are now. All of the American Experience shows on the Presidents are very good, but this one is quite relevant. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/clinton/ It's on DVD, streaming on hulu probably, and there's probably torrents around as well. Chamale posted:It's true of many career politicians, not some flaw unique to Hillary Clinton. Just look at the way she effortlessly changes her viewpoints to match popular opinion, on Iraq, gay marriage, taxes, and more. This debate over whether politicians should be allowed to evolve on issues keeps happening in the thread and it's really loving stupid. Why would anyone want a politician that didn't change as society changed? Noone was getting elected as a supporter of gay rights, outside of weird states and districts with college populations, up until the last four years or so and the tax movement is just as new. Sure, there's always been people on the other side, but how many of them got elected and actually changed anything running that platform? Getting a politician to change their mind is how you get good legislation when you can't elect people that agree with you already.
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Jul 13, 2015 13:48
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ZenVulgarity posted:What does every Republican mean by making the country great again No more browns
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Jul 13, 2015 13:48
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ZenVulgarity posted:What does every Republican mean by making the country great again Whatever positive connotations the listener wants to provide, especially things that the candidate isn't ever going to do.
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Jul 13, 2015 13:49
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ZenVulgarity posted:What does every Republican mean by making the country great again Give white males back all of the rights that have been taken away the past six years.
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Jul 13, 2015 13:49
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They obviously are going to turn America back into the largest economic and military power in the world.
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Jul 13, 2015 13:54
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ZenVulgarity posted:What does every Republican mean by making the country great again They want this fictional universe, basically. 
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Jul 13, 2015 14:00
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ZenVulgarity posted:What does every Republican mean by making the country great again They want to return us to the World of Reagan; forgetting that in Reagan's world, the financial markets were more heavily regulated, minimum wage was more equitable, and corporate taxes were higher. What they really want is to roll back to their imaginary Reagan years and especially anything that might have moved equality.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:04
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Kro-Bar posted:They want this fictional universe, basically. <  > I learned everything I know about society from that show. It was pretty radical for its time, and distinctly different (vastly better) than poo poo like Father Knows Best.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:10
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greatn posted:In his Wisconsin speech he had a lengthy section where he talked about police brutality and that young African Americans need to be able to walk down the street without being abused or worse. He needs to actually relay that and much more to black voters in person though, Wisconsin is really white. Allow me to provide some context. Sanders made that speech in Madison, Wisconsin, which has historically had the exact same problem that a lot of people here think they're criticizing about Sanders -- it's full of well-off white liberals who talk the talk but don't really walk the walk. Blacks in Madison experience serious institutional racism and there'd been ongoing issues with trying to deal that but no one has made a serious effort on that front. Milwaukee, as well, is famously one of the most segregrated cities in America. Sometime about a year and a half ago a prominent black reverend, Alex Gee, decided to finally call Madison out on its poo poo. The community response since then has been overwhelmingly positive and unified, and various groups have been working hard, with much more effective results, to fight systemic racism in Madison. The article itself is quite good, I'd recommend you read it, especially if you're one of the people who were Very Concerned about Sanders's, uh, economic issues. It has nothing to do with Sanders, but it's always great for sheltered whites to read real talk about problems faced at the local level by black people. Several months ago a black teenager, Tony Robinson, was having a bad trip. His friends called the police, a cop arrived and went inside, and apparently Robinson charged at the cop, the cop drew his gun, and shot Robinson dead while scrambling backwards out of the house. There was a large protest about the shooting and general police brutality, and some of those protests ended up disrupting the mayoral election and was a serious, ongoing topic for the city for a few months. (Apologies for the Wikipedia link but I don't know of any other source that encompasses the entire episode, and I didn't want to link 10 different things.) Anyway, I can tell you the Robinson shooting was still very fresh in mind of Madisonians when Sanders was here giving that speech with that specific part about police brutality and young blacks. I would be surprised if Sanders wasn't aware of it and specifically communicating that particular point with that in mind. There were plenty of black people at Sanders's Madison speech who heard that part of his speech and will talk about it with others. While Wisconsin is "really white", there's still a very significant black and Asian population in Madison and Milwaukee, and many Latino and Hmong communities throughout the state. Milwaukee is 40% black, Green Bay is 1/6ths Latino, it's the rest-of-the-state that's overwhelmingly white thanks to the German/French settler heritage and little economic opportunity other than farming to attract outsiders. (Our American Indian population is also sadly dwindling to nothing outside places like Green Bay or the reservations in the northern half of the state.)
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Jul 13, 2015 14:10
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Jul 13, 2015 14:12
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No one is suggesting politicians cannot change their mind. People are questioning Hillary's sincerity in doing so. This is not unique to Hillary - the same could be said about 95% of politicians, but it stands out more in contrast to someone like Sanders who obviously believes what he says. Otoh, this is the image the right has been painting of the Clintons for 20 years.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:15
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Qurnah posted:Okay I'll play. Lets say one of the establishment candidates Jeb, Rubio or Walker wins the general election and tears up the agreement.  quote:Don't congress and the senate need to vote before starting what could evolve inte WW3? Nope! The President can unilaterally act militarily for 60 days before he has to report to Congress. A formal declaration of war or an extension of hostilities past 90 days requires Congressional approval. quote:Do your duty to Israel actually mean that you always need to support their acts of aggression without question? What are you, an anti-Semite?? Yes, we support Israel in all things at all times and did you see this drawing by Netanyahu? We have to act! quote:I can in some way understand how a big chunk of the american public and their elected officials in the aftermath of 9/11 sanctioned the war against Iraq. As a nation you were wounded and not thinking straight. You were afraid and you wanted revenge and lashed out. I watched it all unfold, I was only in high school when it went down but I remember when the world held it's breath in anticipation for what was about to come.   quote:How are you gonna handle the deficit with another war going on? And you're gonna infuriate pretty much the whole world except Israel. Republicans don't care about the deficit as much as they care about no-bid military contracts. Nor do they care about the international community (note the appointment by Bush of John Bolton, a man who opposes the very concept of the UN, as ambassador to the UN). If we get a Republican president, we get a war with Iran. Almost guaranteed. And at least 60-70% of the US public will be cheering for it (for the first six months at least).
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Jul 13, 2015 14:18
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Kro-Bar posted:They want this fictional universe, basically. Ok Republicans, we'll go back to all of that including the marginal tax rates from those days, deal? Acelerion posted:No one is suggesting politicians cannot change their mind. People are questioning Hillary's sincerity in doing so. This is not unique to Hillary - the same could be said about 95% of politicians, but it stands out more in contrast to someone like Sanders who obviously believes what he says. Exactly. You can change your mind once in a while, but when you reverse positions on just about everything one has to conclude that you're either an idiot or a liar. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jul 13, 2015 |
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Jul 13, 2015 14:19
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It's not really "the image the right has been painting" as much as just kind of coloring in the lines.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:19
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It's the image that exists only in their narrative fiction.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:19
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ZenVulgarity posted:What does every Republican mean by making the country great again  If you say it three times in front of a mirror, Arthur Laffer steps out.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:21
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Clinton is uniquely positioned to be the most effective President we've seen in a long time. She knows more about the Presidency than any candidate I can think of, I doubt Bush Jr learned alot while his father was President, and if she still wants to run after six years of dealing with Gingrich, then there's something in her that I'm curious to see. Perhaps if Biden was running, or if the Dems had another candidate that could win the general, I wouldn't be as bullish on Clinton, but I've been watching her and her husband for quite a long time and they're big picture great society types. Maybe some of that has been worn down since the early 90's, but I'm willing to crank up the hope machine again.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:26
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Mr.48 posted:Exactly. You can change your mind once in a while, but when you reverse positions on just about everything one has to conclude that you're either an idiot or a liar. Or both, in Walker's case.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:26
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Sir Tonk posted:Clinton is uniquely positioned to be the most effective President we've seen in a long time. She knows more about the Presidency than any candidate I can think of, I doubt Bush Jr learned alot while his father was President, and if she still wants to run after six years of dealing with Gingrich, then there's something in her that I'm curious to see.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:31
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ZenVulgarity posted:What does every Republican mean by making the country great again Kicking out all the
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Jul 13, 2015 14:35
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McAlister posted:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/07/11/teachers-union-endorses-hillary-clinton-in-democratic-race/ This is from a bunch of pages back, but I just wanna chime in and say this is wrong as hell. Labor unions almost always 'vote' to endorse not from their membership, but from their Executive Boards. IIRC, several of AFT's Executive Board members have very close professional/personal relationships with HRC, including Randi Weingarten, who has been a good friend of hers for years and was a superdelegate for Clinton in 2008.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:35
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http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/247257-sanders-we-have-got-to-apologize-for-slavery Is this true? I thought the US had officially apologized for slavery. If we haven't, that is insane.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:40
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My friend came over this weekend and we watched some John Oliver. When this piece came up, he said "Now that's a man that knows how to get poo poo done. I'd vote for him." At which point (since he had never heard of Bernie Sanders before), I told him he was running for president. He actually said he was going to register to vote for him. If Bernie gets elected, it will be John Oliver's fault. I'm okay with that. :bernget:
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Jul 13, 2015 14:44
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this_is_hard posted:This is from a bunch of pages back, but I just wanna chime in and say this is wrong as hell. Labor unions almost always 'vote' to endorse not from their membership, but from their Executive Boards. IIRC, several of AFT's Executive Board members have very close professional/personal relationships with HRC, including Randi Weingarten, who has been a good friend of hers for years and was a superdelegate for Clinton in 2008. Boy are those teachers gonna love it if Hillary gets elected and then cuts education to make some kind of deal with Republicans for something else. Hillary gives no fucks, she is a politician only for her own self-interest and egomania. Whats actually good for the American people is at best 3rd on her list of priorities behind getting to power and money. E: Hillary can promise personal statues on the moon for all a rational person should care. Clinton's promises aren't worth the paper they written on, whereas Sanders promises things that he will actually do his best to deliver. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jul 13, 2015 |
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Jul 13, 2015 14:44
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greatn posted:http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/247257-sanders-we-have-got-to-apologize-for-slavery I don't believe we have. There was some white dude I saw on CNN or something saying that Obama should apologize for slavery. Apparently it would be extra meaningful if the first black President was the first US President to officially apologize for the enslavement of people who look like him?
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Jul 13, 2015 14:49
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Mr.48 posted:Boy are those teachers gonna love it if Hillary gets elected and then cuts education to make some kind of deal with Republicans for something else. Hillary gives no fucks, she is a politician only for her own self-interest and egomania. Whats actually good for the American people is at best 3rd on her list of priorities behind getting to power and money. And you base this all on, what exactly?
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Jul 13, 2015 14:50
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Aliquid posted:Then why has she turned left faster than Dale Jr.? She hasn't. Bernie running just caused you to assert differences between them that don't exist and since you were making specific falsifiable claims you started getting corrected after he started running. You knowing a poo poo ton more about her is a change in you, not in her. As an example, without googling please list 5 items you think represent her "turning left" in response to Bernie. Post them. Then pull up your browser and for each one look for efforts on that front that predate Bernie. I'll pop back after work and do the second part for you if you like.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:50
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Mr.48 posted:Boy are those teachers gonna love it if Hillary gets elected and then cuts education to make some kind of deal with Republicans for something else. Hillary gives no fucks, she is a politician only for her own self-interest and egomania. Whats actually good for the American people is at best 3rd on her list of priorities behind getting to power and money. Yep, this is literally the woman who was present in Walmart executive level anti-union meetings and didn't say a drat thing. lol if you expect HRC to do even as much as Obama has (very little ) w/r/t labor rights
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Jul 13, 2015 14:51
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:And you base this all on, what exactly? 
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Jul 13, 2015 14:52
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quote:Yep, this is literally the woman who was present in Walmart executive level anti-union meetings and didn't say a drat thing. lol if you expect HRC to do even as much as Obama has (very little ) w/r/t labor rights Pretty sure the thread already had the "why Hillary did what she did while on Walmart's board" discussion a couple hundred pages ago.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:54
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Discussion? More like excuse.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:Pretty sure the thread already had the "why Hillary did what she did while on Walmart's board" discussion a couple hundred pages ago. maybe so, but it's still a pretty valid point/worth of discussion regarding Hillary and labor unions, don't you think?
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Jul 13, 2015 14:55
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Her idea of being "not just broke, but in debt" is coming out of the white house. Did everyone forget that quote? I feel like she's probably not in touch with the lower class as much as she claims, since a ton of her money comes from banks and corporations.Hillary Rodham Clinton posted:"You have no reason to remember, but we came out of the White House not only dead broke, but in debt," Clinton said. "We had no money when we got there, and we struggled to piece together the resources for mortgages for houses, for Chelsea's education. It was not easy. Bill has worked really hard. And it's been amazing to me. He's worked very hard." "We almost had to not own multiple houses and pay for our daughter to go to Stanford! WE WERE DEAD BROKE!" She has no idea what dead broke is.
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Jul 13, 2015 14:58
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Litany Unheard posted:I don't believe we have. There was some white dude I saw on CNN or something saying that Obama should apologize for slavery. Apparently it would be extra meaningful if the first black President was the first US President to officially apologize for the enslavement of people who look like him? Just to play devil's advocate, I think Obama is not descended from slaves and may actually be descended from slave owners on his mother's side, or at least from people who benefitted from the institution, so he has at least some reason to apologize. Less reason, since he experienced a lot of the same disadvantages being descended from slave would give you anyway. But yeah someone saying he should apologize because it would be "extra special" coming from a black man is some next level trolling.
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Jul 13, 2015 15:01
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GreyPowerVan posted:Her idea of being "not just broke, but in debt" is coming out of the white house. Did everyone forget that quote? I feel like she's probably not in touch with the lower class as much as she claims, since a ton of her money comes from banks and corporations. That was taken wildly out of context.
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Jul 13, 2015 15:01
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Veskit posted:Does Bernie have any specific minority policies or are they all general policies that end up benefiting minorities disproportionately to white people/ect. No. And he gets huffy if you ask him to talk about "demographic stuff" insisting its a distraction from a purely economic based approach and that the minority groups with specific issues should want to talk about instead ... since they are the most effected ... and concluding that it is the minorities job to learn more about his platform to properly appreciate him. Truly this man is a collaborating coalition builder.
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Jul 13, 2015 15:02
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GreyPowerVan posted:She has no idea what dead broke is. The word "houses" really is quite something in that quote.
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Jul 13, 2015 15:02
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What context is there for her claiming to be dead broke? Just curious. I'm wondering on what circumstances a rich person who is sending their kid to one of the most expensive Universities and owns multiple houses can claim to be dead broke.
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Jul 13, 2015 15:02
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 This is absolutely someone I would expect to be a champion of labor unions
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Jul 13, 2015 15:04
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Junior G-man posted:The word "houses" really is quite something in that quote. No, no, you see, it was taken out of context. It's, I can't believe I have to say this, it's not at all what you think it is. She had a very, indeed an extremely, good reason to say that.
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Jul 13, 2015 15:04
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