|
If I'm not mistaken, given half decent case airflow, you don't really have to worry about NVMe drive temperatures until gen 4.
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 01:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
Ihmemies posted:So 12700K is good for games and applications, yes? Thought about :
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 01:44
|
|
|
Yeah I would usually go for the nh-d15s just to be safe. The black one looks really nice. I am on the fence about an upgrade, any good mATX ddr4 motherboards? I would like to reuse my current phanteks enthoo case and move my 8700k to a fractal node 804 to fully nas-ify it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 02:09
|
|
|
Cygni posted:Yeah, Asus stuff is super overpriced this generation. Just wanted to give an Asus option if they wanted to stick with em for some reason. In general, the Z690-A Pro is probably the default board out there right now (if you are cool with the downgraded audio). If you aren't cool with the downgraded audio (as far as I can tell, all it ultimately means is perhaps a slight background hiss with some speakers or headsets, which won't be audible when actual audio is playing), then the MSI B660 Tomahawk is $190: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144520 One less m.2 slot, less PCIe capability (though still enough for 90% of users), but it has the ALC1220P and is a good $50 cheaper than the wifi version of the Z690-A Pro. And still excellent IO. I really like the idea of having 4 m.2 slots, but 3 is still more than most pre-12th-gen boards. It looks like a great B660 board. Note that the B660 platform does not support PCIe 5.0. Not even the CPU-connected x16 slot will be 5.0. This is mostly a moot point. There are very few Z690 boards that have 5.0 m.2 slots (like, one or two ultra-high-end boards only? and it requires bifurcation of the x16 slot), and we don't even need the full bandwidth of 4.0 right now, let alone 5.0, so I wouldn't expect any issues arising from this. priznat posted:I am on the fence about an upgrade, any good mATX ddr4 motherboards? I would like to reuse my current phanteks enthoo case and move my 8700k to a fractal node 804 to fully nas-ify it. It will depend on the price, but the MSI B660M Mortar looks pretty good. The mATX Z690 boards look pretty overpriced. The Gigabyte Z690M Aorus Elite looks pretty alright, though it'll be at least $150 more than a decent B660 board for like, one extra m.2 slot and PCIe 5.0. And I'm still cagey about gigabyte's 12th gen motherboards. Supposedly they released a bios update to fix the memory issues, but I've seen a couple disgruntled user reviews since then saying that memory support is still not great?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 04:27
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:It will depend on the price, but the MSI B660M Mortar looks pretty good. The mATX Z690 boards look pretty overpriced. The Gigabyte Z690M Aorus Elite looks pretty alright, though it'll be at least $150 more than a decent B660 board for like, one extra m.2 slot and PCIe 5.0. And I'm still cagey about gigabyte's 12th gen motherboards. Supposedly they released a bios update to fix the memory issues, but I've seen a couple disgruntled user reviews since then saying that memory support is still not great? Yeah, the only mATX board that shows up for .ca is the Asus Strix (ddr5) one which is really pricey even before the extra cost of ddr5 sticks. I’ll keep an eye out for the MSi though! It’d be weird not going for a Z board but like you say, there’s not a *lot* of clear advantages anymore. The B660 will still kick butt. By the time we actually have GPUs that would need gen5 (if ever!) it’d probably at least be next generation or more of intel cpus.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 04:36
|
|
|
SuperTeeJay posted:Check Noctua’s website for compatibility between its coolers and Z690 boards. Asus released several models this generation that can’t take the big towers. I checked, the Asus rog strix Z690 A is incompatible. It has 40mm tall VRM heatsinks while standard is 32mm. I understood the cooler will fit though, if you remove the plastic RGB cover over the rear motherboard area. I had to remove it from my Z290 Maximus X Hero too because of cooler incompatibility. If it does not fit at all I can return the motherboard and swap it to something else. I paid 309€ for the Hero in 2017 and 369€ for the top DDR4 mobo from Asus now in the current electronic situation doesn't feel outrageous. I've used Asus boards only in 3rd millennium and I am Extremely Hesitant to try something new. My current board has S1220 audio chip so I'd like to use the same. I understood 4080 is basically the same chip but with usb connection instead of "regular" connection. 2-3 of my latest mobo's have had that smooth nice factory installed port cover too... It feels so cheap to buy a motherboard without 🙈 The Asus motherboard also has 8 rear usb type a connections and 2 type c. The cheaper boards have less.. and some even have a ps/2 port, wtf. I don't know. All the other boards I looked at just felt too cheap, help. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Jan 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 05:56
|
|
|
Its a good rear end board (16+1 VRM, their best DDR4 topology, 4 M.2, the fancy audio etc), its just pricey. If you are cool with the Asus price premium, rock and roll! I'm partial to Asus stuff and will spend extra for it myself so I don't blame you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 06:02
|
|
|
Yeah. It has unnecessarily good VRM but that's what it is these days. I hope the motherboard will last too, since my htpc currently has my ddr3 setup with Asus P6T deluxe from 2007. If I wanted to really save money I'd swap my car to something cheaper. At current 98RON prices filling the tank costs 150€.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 06:22
|
|
|
Hey thread - I had to do a partial rebuild of my rig last night, scrapping my 3 disks in favor of 1 new M.2 SSD and a fresh copy of Windows -- and figured I'd transfer it all to a new case too for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately the push pins on my CPU heat sink got bent during this process and I cannot seat it properly; only 2 of the 4 pins will actually go in the holes around the CPU. So I've just got my case laying on its side so that gravity keeps the heat sink "in place" on top of the CPU 👀 I have a Cooler Master Hyper T2, and while this was the easiest Cooler Master I've ever installed I've always found their hardware to be kinda a pain in the rear end. Is that unavoidable, or is there a more premium brand I can pay for with generally better installation hardware?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 15:40
|
|
|
I have no idea what is a push pin. Normally cooler or motherboard comes with a piece of metal ("backplate") which goes behind the motherboard. You screw 1-2 pieces of adapter metal to the backplate, then the heatsink screws to the adapter(s) with 2 screws. So I screw screws when mounting cpu coolers. Some models come with a screwdriver so you don't need to even have your own. Thermalright and Noctua make pretty good coolers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 15:50
|
|
|
Other coolers will have different mounting mechanisms so that you're not relying on the "push pin" mechanism that Intel uses for its stock coolers (and is imitated by some third-party coolers) if you see a cooler you like, search it on youtube and you'll usually be able to find an installation video (or even a full review) so you know what you're dealing with
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 15:57
|
|
|
Ihmemies posted:I have no idea what is a push pin. Normally cooler or motherboard comes with a piece of metal ("backplate") which goes behind the motherboard. You screw 1-2 pieces of adapter metal to the backplate, then the heatsink screws to the adapter(s) with 2 screws. These bad boys:  They're lovely little plastic clips that get inserted into the holes on the mobo. And if you don't have them lined up perfectly with the holes, when you try to push them down into said holes they're prone to bending  I have encountered the back plate that gets installed on the opposite side of the motherboard, but I've always found them a tremendous pain in the rear end and was relieved this one didn't have one. You just line up the pins and push it down. But yea, woops wasn't quite aligned right. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jan 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 16:07
|
|
|
Super sketchy source here, but they're just reporting on a Geekbench result: https://wccftech.com/intels-most-en...core-i9-10900k/ How long has it been possible to overclock the non-K parts? What is this "base clock boost"? Wouldn't this mean that you can overclock the dirt cheap i5-12400F instead of getting a more expensive part?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 16:07
|
|
|
Twerk from Home posted:Super sketchy source here, but they're just reporting on a Geekbench result: the "base clock" is the clock by which all other clocks are... based on. Often this is set at 100.00 Mhz (or close enough to it) such that everything else runs at a 1:1 relationship in some cases it's possible to increase the base clock, which acts as a multiplier on all other clocks, including the CPU's core clock for example, if the Celeron's rated clock is 3.4 GHz, but the base clock is set to ... 129.00 MHz, then it would run at about 4.386 GHz (where 3.4 x 1.29 = 4.386) however, that means all other clock timings, particularly memory clock timings, are also going to be "multiplied" against the higher base clock some motherboards have a toggle-able feature to try and exploit this, but I've never heard nor seen of a base clock increase that high - most of the time you can only bump it by 5% if that, because it's very easy to make the entire system unstable due to the fact that it affects everything and I wouldn't consider it a "replacement" for manual/official overclocking on the K-model parts
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 16:24
|
|
|
Usually that base clock is also used for the pcie clock and lots of cards do not like it when you get way out of spec (100MHz +/- 300ppm).
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
One thing I don't understand is Microcenter's prices. 12700 and 12900K are $100 off already. $349 and $549 respectively. Especially that 12700K prixe is extra stupid. Even if I add 24% VAT to it, it is still 100€ cheaper than in Finland. Here it is 479€.. https://www.microcenter.com/product...ded?storeid=181 Just look at that. Insane. With cheapest Z690 mobo and $20 discount it comes to $518. Jfc. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jan 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 17:58
|
|
|
It was $300 at one point. 12600K a bit over $200. It's something they do occasionally with CPUs, probably as a loss leading initiative.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 18:00
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:It was $300 at one point. 12600K a bit over $200. It's something they do occasionally with CPUs, probably as a loss leading initiative. Sick. $300, really. Well I guess it serves us commies right to pay premium prices.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 18:02
|
|
|
Ihmemies posted:Sick. $300, really. Well I guess it serves us commies right to pay premium prices. Mostly those prices are in store only and they're assuming if you're picking up the cpu you'd rather just buy all the other stuff in store too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 18:10
|
|
|
e: nm apparently just something some dork made in pshop
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 21:42
|
|
|
I'm starting to think I need a new CPU; my performance on recent games with a 3070 is a little disappointing. Halo Infinite chugs occasionally as my CPU usage maxes out, and looking at the recommended specs I'm a couple generations behind that. My current CPU is a 7700k that I did surgery on to get better cooling. Are new CPUs soldered again? Looking online it seems like they are but I wanted a little confirmation. Is a 12700k probably my best bet? e: Oh god, CPU prices seem alright but what is wrong with motherboards?? Scholtz fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 23:04
|
|
|
Scholtz posted:e: Oh god, CPU prices seem alright but what is wrong with motherboards??
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 23:33
|
|
|
The pricing is isn't coming from nowhere, though, I think. If you look at the entry level gigabyte or MSI z690 models, you're getting quite a bit for that $200.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 23:37
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:The pricing is isn't coming from nowhere, though, I think. If you look at the entry level gigabyte or MSI z690 models, you're getting quite a bit for that $200. Yeah I think i paid more for the Asus Z390 board (Strix-E, so not like it was one of the super high end ones either) for my 9700k back in 2018 than I did for the MSI Z690 board last month. Scholtz posted:I'm starting to think I need a new CPU; my performance on recent games with a 3070 is a little disappointing. Halo Infinite chugs occasionally as my CPU usage maxes out, and looking at the recommended specs I'm a couple generations behind that. Shipon fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 23:48
|
|
|
It looks like my local microcenter (Michigan) has some open-box mobos (ASUS Z690-A Prime) for $150. If that sounds like a good idea, maybe I'll drive out there on Friday?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 00:02
|
|
|
Scholtz posted:It looks like my local microcenter (Michigan) has some open-box mobos (ASUS Z690-A Prime) for $150. DDR4 or DDR5? DDR5 is not easy to come by right now and the modules that are out aren't all that much better than good high-end DDR4 modules that are much cheaper.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 00:04
|
|
|
I don't have first hand experience, but when I was looking for deals, I read some anecdotes about MC open boxes being a crapshoot. Often they'll allegedly be faulty returns that went straight back on the shelf.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 00:05
|
|
|
Oof yeah it's DDR5. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and find a decent enough deal on a DDR4 one. It looks like Best Buy has the MSI - PRO Z690-A for $220. That's around the price I'd be willing to pay, I just had sticker shock seeing $300 and $400 ones. My last mobo was $124!
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 00:12
|
|
|
https://www.igorslab.de/en/alder-lakes-cooling-problem-bend-again-around-5c-ilm-mod-for-intel-lga1700-socket/2/ Igor's Lab has discovered that if you take apart the CPU socket and put ~1mm washers there, you can greatly improve the mounting on the CPU and get better temps. Not sure if 6 C cooler is quite worth the risk of doing that, but it does illuminate that board makers probably should have done a better job of reinforcing the socket area. Scholtz posted:Oof yeah it's DDR5. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and find a decent enough deal on a DDR4 one. The MSI board is definitely the one to get - it's still got overkill power delivery and 4 M.2 ports that are all independent of anything else. Shipon fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jan 13, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 00:14
|
|
|
Welp, hooray impulse: (and BB price match) 
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 00:57
|
|
|
I'm curious for anyone who is audio-sensitive if the inferiority of the Z690-A/Pro is noticeable to you? I'm not a fan of sacrificing audio, but OTOH to get the same features with better audio is like $80 right now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 01:01
|
|
|
K8.0 posted:I'm curious for anyone who is audio-sensitive if the inferiority of the Z690-A/Pro is noticeable to you? I'm not a fan of sacrificing audio, but OTOH to get the same features with better audio is like $80 right now. With my audiotechnica headphones the audio seems no worse than my other computer
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 01:25
|
|
|
K8.0 posted:I'm curious for anyone who is audio-sensitive if the inferiority of the Z690-A/Pro is noticeable to you? I'm not a fan of sacrificing audio, but OTOH to get the same features with better audio is like $80 right now. This was me before I fell into the rabbit hole of DACs and Amps for my headphones
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 01:34
|
|
|
Meaning you're a lost cause audiophile, or meaning that if you DO have an issue with your onboard sound quality, an external DAC is better anyway?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 02:24
|
|
|
K8.0 posted:I'm curious for anyone who is audio-sensitive if the inferiority of the Z690-A/Pro is noticeable to you? I'm not a fan of sacrificing audio, but OTOH to get the same features with better audio is like $80 right now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 02:49
|
|
|
Scholtz posted:I'm starting to think I need a new CPU; my performance on recent games with a 3070 is a little disappointing. Halo Infinite chugs occasionally as my CPU usage maxes out, and looking at the recommended specs I'm a couple generations behind that. Yes, modern intel CPUs have solder TIMs between the die and IHS, as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExPdq4yX2OI Shipon posted:https://www.igorslab.de/en/alder-lakes-cooling-problem-bend-again-around-5c-ilm-mod-for-intel-lga1700-socket/2/ It does not seem like there is much risk in doing this from what I'm seeing—you're just unscrewing a couple simple metal parts, inserting some washers, and screwing it back in. I don't know if I'd suggest this to a total PC building noob, but this is probably something I'd try doing if I were to get an alder lake CPU. My only question would be which motherboards does this apply to? Are there any where doing this is a bad idea because IHS flexing is already a non-issue on them?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 03:13
|
|
|
My personal take has always been the implementation matters way more than the specific model of Realtek IC, provided it’s one of the modern products. Most of the complaints I see online (popping, hissing, cracking) are all obviously implementation issues or user error. That’s not coming from the IC differences. Realtek keeps the white papers under lock and key (which might tell you something), but the ones that have leaked seem to suggest that the primary differences are things like hardware DRM and codec support for high end Blu-ray stuff, line in signal to noise ratio, and lots of stuff about the front audio jack… that most people don’t use, lol. For gaming speakers or gaming headphones plugged into the back, I don’t think the IC itself makes any difference. And if you wanted to drive nice high impedance headphones or a fancy home theater, you probably aren’t gonna use the integrated audio anyway? Cygni fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jan 13, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 03:17
|
|
|
Speaking of igor's lab, they do analyses of realtek's audio chips, and they've come to the conclusion that you should indeed always use the front audio jacks whenever available because they reduce signal noise somehow. Something about the way the audio is routed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 03:22
|
|
|
LRADIKAL posted:Meaning you're a lost cause audiophile, or meaning that if you DO have an issue with your onboard sound quality, an external DAC is better anyway? I had a bad onboard sound issues back on whatever Gigabyte board I had for my Sandy Bridge set up a decade ago and got an external DAC, THEN became a lost cause audiophile with high impedence headphones.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 03:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
If your onboard audio is bad you can buy an apple USB-C dongle and get better SNR than is audibly discernable. And this is coming from someone with a $2000 DAC/amp/interface. (RME ADI-2 Pro Fs)
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 03:40
|
|
