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Plom Bar
Jun 5, 2004

hardest time i ever done :(
The newest Ace Attorney game has the single most dull prosecutor in the entire series and keeps the game from its rightful place as the best in the whole franchise.

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Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion

Why does the battle.net launcher update so frequently? Why does it need me to restart the launcher after updating every gooddam time!? Just update yourself in the background like every other game service. jfc

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.
I just finished Binary Domain right after blazing through Vanquish. It's interesting how those two are third-person cover shooters made by Japanese developers featuring robots as the main antagonists and have very different scope and design philosophies.

I enjoyed BD overall, but I think it's juggling too many ideas. There's some really good stuff like what artificial intelligence means to human rights, do faked memories invalidate identity, the wealth gap hinders upward mobility for the lower class, and whether people from one generation should inherit the punishment of their parents' "crimes." Also, there's some low key bitching about how Japan gets hosed over by the West time and again.

These are all really cool topics that could be fully developed stories for several games, but they're all crammed in here and consequently never get fleshed out.

There's some weird tone issues in the story as well. The one person who advocates the worth of the Hollow Children's ... er, children is the same guy who plagiarized the work of the scientist who inadvertently created Hollow Children as a way of getting back at everyone for being plagiarized.

And not once does anyone ever try to argue in favor of the Hollow Children from the beginning. There could have been an argument for their worth as long as they weren't susceptible to remote control by Amada. Their presence has created paranoia and fear among humans, but there's never this idea that if they take Amada down they can figure out alternative, perhaps more diplomatic methods of dealing with Hollow Children. Hell, the twist at the end would still work because then you'd be fighting for their autonomy against the U.S. military.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Plom Bar posted:

The newest Ace Attorney game has the single most dull prosecutor in the entire series and keeps the game from its rightful place as the best in the whole franchise.

I kind of liked her as a character, and the Seeing through the eyes of the dead was an interesting mechanic.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

The Lone Badger posted:

W1 Triss is basically Yennefer.

Ayup. Witcher 1 was in many ways basically fanfiction. The main story was its own thing, but a great many quests and characters were basically "hey, remember this thing from the books?". The Striga fight, for example, was basically lifted 1:1 from one of the books. So yeah, they basically wanted somebody to fill the general role of Yennefer, but couldn't really find a way to bring the actual character into, probably because that would have caused too many complications. It was only from Witcher 2 and onwards that they went for a more focused story and setting that more properly slots into the rest of the universe.

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

Here's something that has puzzled me about a lot of games: Why do games put frequently used functions on the Left and Right "bumpers" and infrequently used ones on the triggers? The triggers seem much more natural to just use, and I've switched it on every single game I've been able to. Am I the weird one?

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

Perestroika posted:

Ayup. Witcher 1 was in many ways basically fanfiction. The main story was its own thing, but a great many quests and characters were basically "hey, remember this thing from the books?". The Striga fight, for example, was basically lifted 1:1 from one of the books. So yeah, they basically wanted somebody to fill the general role of Yennefer, but couldn't really find a way to bring the actual character into, probably because that would have caused too many complications. It was only from Witcher 2 and onwards that they went for a more focused story and setting that more properly slots into the rest of the universe.

it was because the main writer hated Yennefer for some reason lol, same reason Alvin filled Ciri's role. The developer who posts in the Witcher 3 thread is pretty candid about some of the weird design decisions and writing that went into 1

Futuresight
Oct 11, 2012

IT'S ALL TURNED TO SHIT!

Agents are GO! posted:

Here's something that has puzzled me about a lot of games: Why do games put frequently used functions on the Left and Right "bumpers" and infrequently used ones on the triggers? The triggers seem much more natural to just use, and I've switched it on every single game I've been able to. Am I the weird one?

It's definitely a bit weird cause the bumpers should be better cause you don't have to push as far, but they're just a little too high on the controller to be comfortable. I think I used to prefer the L1/R1 buttons as a kid though. Maybe smaller hands make it easier?

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

Futuresight posted:

It's definitely a bit weird cause the bumpers should be better cause you don't have to push as far, but they're just a little too high on the controller to be comfortable. I think I used to prefer the L1/R1 buttons as a kid though. Maybe smaller hands make it easier?

I think you might be right. Trumptrollers.

darkwasthenight
Jan 7, 2011

GENE TRAITOR

bloom posted:

I replayed Just Cause 2 a while back and it has the same thing going on. They went through all the effort of putting a bunch of cars in the game, but using the physics defying grappling hook and magically replenishing parachute to get around was pretty much always faster. The only time I used cars outside of missions was blowing poo poo up with the APC a few times very late into the game. It doesn't exactly drag the game down because gliding around and blowing poo poo up is so fun, but I couldn't help occasionally looking down at all the cars and thinking what a waste

I've only just started playing JC2 but love the movement techniques. Once I figured out the best way to get through firefights was constantly hammering roll and grappling into cover I was loving it. The only way they could improve it for me would be adding the Far Cry wingsuit, which I gather they did in JC3.

Having such free movement brings me to another pet peeve though: there aren't any games that have successfully bridged the gap between massive maps, fluid movement, and having areas with actual personality yet. The JC2 map is cool, but you're moving so fast none of it registers and it's just a random blur of mountains somewhere underneath you as you destroy identikit military bases. Skyrim and Fallout actually had some little areas with personality like fishing huts and the 'last moment' skeleton scenes you can find in Fallout, but even on a horse you move at a speed best described as 'laboured' and it's easier to just fast travel everywhere. Far Cry has beautiful maps and the scale doesn't feel too huge for you to move on foot, but even then it all becomes one big jungle/mountain range in between waypoints rather than being able to think "oh, I can nip down this road here to cut this convoy off down the valley..."

I guess most of this is just down to the vast resources needed to make those massive maps and I'm probably asking for the moon on a stick, but it'd be nice to have a game where you could make the switch between scales and movement speeds easily.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

darkwasthenight posted:

I've only just started playing JC2 but love the movement techniques. Once I figured out the best way to get through firefights was constantly hammering roll and grappling into cover I was loving it. The only way they could improve it for me would be adding the Far Cry wingsuit, which I gather they did in JC3.

Having such free movement brings me to another pet peeve though: there aren't any games that have successfully bridged the gap between massive maps, fluid movement, and having areas with actual personality yet. The JC2 map is cool, but you're moving so fast none of it registers and it's just a random blur of mountains somewhere underneath you as you destroy identikit military bases. Skyrim and Fallout actually had some little areas with personality like fishing huts and the 'last moment' skeleton scenes you can find in Fallout, but even on a horse you move at a speed best described as 'laboured' and it's easier to just fast travel everywhere. Far Cry has beautiful maps and the scale doesn't feel too huge for you to move on foot, but even then it all becomes one big jungle/mountain range in between waypoints rather than being able to think "oh, I can nip down this road here to cut this convoy off down the valley..."

I guess most of this is just down to the vast resources needed to make those massive maps and I'm probably asking for the moon on a stick, but it'd be nice to have a game where you could make the switch between scales and movement speeds easily.

Breath of the Wild does this well imo

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug
On the PS3 the pull for the triggers was way too long to be used for aiming and shooting effectively, but yeah, the bumpers were kind of awkward to use for that kind of thing as well. I got used to it eventually but the muscle memory from using the 360 controller's triggers for that was hard to shake.

The PS4 triggers are way better, though

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

Perestroika posted:

Ayup. Witcher 1 was in many ways basically fanfiction. The main story was its own thing, but a great many quests and characters were basically "hey, remember this thing from the books?". The Striga fight, for example, was basically lifted 1:1 from one of the books. So yeah, they basically wanted somebody to fill the general role of Yennefer, but couldn't really find a way to bring the actual character into, probably because that would have caused too many complications. It was only from Witcher 2 and onwards that they went for a more focused story and setting that more properly slots into the rest of the universe.

If nothing else, Alvin was like a super doubleplus not as cool knock off of Ciri :whitewater:

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"


darkwasthenight posted:

I've only just started playing JC2 but love the movement techniques. Once I figured out the best way to get through firefights was constantly hammering roll and grappling into cover I was loving it. The only way they could improve it for me would be adding the Far Cry wingsuit, which I gather they did in JC3.

Having such free movement brings me to another pet peeve though: there aren't any games that have successfully bridged the gap between massive maps, fluid movement, and having areas with actual personality yet. The JC2 map is cool, but you're moving so fast none of it registers and it's just a random blur of mountains somewhere underneath you as you destroy identikit military bases. Skyrim and Fallout actually had some little areas with personality like fishing huts and the 'last moment' skeleton scenes you can find in Fallout, but even on a horse you move at a speed best described as 'laboured' and it's easier to just fast travel everywhere. Far Cry has beautiful maps and the scale doesn't feel too huge for you to move on foot, but even then it all becomes one big jungle/mountain range in between waypoints rather than being able to think "oh, I can nip down this road here to cut this convoy off down the valley..."

I guess most of this is just down to the vast resources needed to make those massive maps and I'm probably asking for the moon on a stick, but it'd be nice to have a game where you could make the switch between scales and movement speeds easily.

Yeah you're basically describing Breath of the Wild here. Completely free movement with climbing and hang gliding and stuff with movement options that range from regular walking, riding a horse, going at a full gallop, or straight-up fast travelling, and the world has tons of character.

well why not
Feb 10, 2009




Yeah Zelda is dripping with character. It's a huge open world but they've managed to get the density right in that you're never more than a minute from doing or seeing something interesting.

Fast Travel points are common enough that they're useful, but not too common that you're just picking from a menu. The towers are useful because you can glide off of them for quite a while. The fairly-common stables always have a warp point nearby so there's always a horse available if you want it. They figured it out, basically.

Pastry of the Year
Apr 12, 2013

I've never played any of the mainline Assassin's Creed games, but I picked up Chronicles: China in a sale a while back and man oh man, talk about wasted potential. There's no reason that it couldn't be Mark of the Ninja good - they're basically the same games in spirit - but I have died a million dumb deaths in ACC:C because of the crummy controls. That's a mortal sin in a stealth action game in which split-second timing makes the difference between doing what you actually intended to do or having to replay an entire god damned sequence again.

ACC:C looks good, sounds good, and I even like the corny story, and when the controls are doing what you want them to do, it's pretty satisfying to play. I paid for the loving thing and I like it enough in theory to want to grit my teeth and just finish it.

:shrug:

Kay Kessler
May 9, 2013

BioEnchanted posted:

I kind of liked her as a character,

Yeah, about that...

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Kay Kessler posted:

Yeah, about that...

I thought you meant the Bahrain medium? Did you mean the samurai? Or is there another game that I missed?

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

it was because the main writer hated Yennefer for some reason lol, same reason Alvin filled Ciri's role. The developer who posts in the Witcher 3 thread is pretty candid about some of the weird design decisions and writing that went into 1

Going from Triss in 2 to the first game was jarring, and I'm glad she's pretty consistent in 2 and 3. What they do with Ciri in 3 and the one Alvin reference they have in the game kiiiinda makes up for his character.

I still think it's funny how the plot moves from the lowest point in the game to let's hit up this party and get the guy who killed Vesemir.

Kay Kessler
May 9, 2013

BioEnchanted posted:

I thought you meant the Bahrain medium? Did you mean the samurai? Or is there another game that I missed?

The dude with purple hair who recites sutras. A lot of people don't realize he's a guy. He debuts in the second case.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
I literally forgot he existed. Wow. Although I totally knew he was a guy, I thought you meant his sister.

Death Zebra
May 14, 2014

I went back to a several year old Darksiders file to get the remaining trophies. I didn't know my way around but luckily it has a map so I should be able to find it...right? Nope! Several areas aren't on the global map so I had to Google to find out how to get there and the local map doesn't really show exits so I spent an hour trying to find an area that was underground with no indication on the map as to how to get there.

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

Zero Time Dilemma has the annoying habit of basically just straight up giving you the answer of a puzzle if you don't solve it right away.

IShallRiseAgain has a new favorite as of 17:30 on May 30, 2017

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"


IShallRiseAgain posted:

Zero Time Dilemma has the annoying habit of basically just straight up giving you the answer of a puzzle if you don't solve it right away.

I've played a lot of stupid games in my life but the final reveal in ZTD made me so angry I stopped playing games entirely for a while. That was some utter bullshit.


Plus there were less puzzle rooms, and they were worse. And having the entirety of the last two games (and depending on how far into the Free the Soul stuff you read, the first game as well) was caused by goddamn aliens who just dumped a matter duplicator/transporter/time machine somewhere is just the dumbest thing ever. And the Zero reveal, and the other reveal, and...ugh. UGH.

The first two games were incredible and the third game had a lot going for it (between the second-best design for Zero and the interesting three-team structure) but oh my god it was awful.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Agents are GO! posted:

I think you might be right. Trumptrollers.

Nah, I have horrifying long spidery digits and think L1/R1 are easier for aim/fire because they're instant clicky buttons instead of awkward mushy things that you have to press a different amount in every game to get a reaction

An Actual Princess
Dec 23, 2006

food court bailiff posted:

I've played a lot of stupid games in my life but the final reveal in ZTD made me so angry I stopped playing games entirely for a while. That was some utter bullshit.


Plus there were less puzzle rooms, and they were worse. And having the entirety of the last two games (and depending on how far into the Free the Soul stuff you read, the first game as well) was caused by goddamn aliens who just dumped a matter duplicator/transporter/time machine somewhere is just the dumbest thing ever. And the Zero reveal, and the other reveal, and...ugh. UGH.

The first two games were incredible and the third game had a lot going for it (between the second-best design for Zero and the interesting three-team structure) but oh my god it was awful.

ZTD wasn't as good as the other two but jesus dude it wasn't that bad.

Also lol at you being totally okay with all the other impossible poo poo that happens but your spoiler is just one step too far?

An Actual Princess has a new favorite as of 18:03 on May 30, 2017

PubicMice
Feb 14, 2012

looking for information on posts

Death Zebra posted:

I went back to a several year old Darksiders file to get the remaining trophies. I didn't know my way around but luckily it has a map so I should be able to find it...right? Nope! Several areas aren't on the global map so I had to Google to find out how to get there and the local map doesn't really show exits so I spent an hour trying to find an area that was underground with no indication on the map as to how to get there.

Isn't it literally impossible to get all the trophies in those games now, since some of them are for online, and since THQ went under the online just straight doesn't exist anymore?

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"


Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:

ZTD wasn't as good as the other two but jesus dude it wasn't that bad.
It absolutely was. Sorry but "the killer is the guy that was totally there all along, just offscreen" is a really bad twist, and these games live and die by their plot reveals. I'm pretty sure every single one of the threads here on SA mentions like "MINDBLOWING TWISTS!!" in each iteration, people aren't going in on the strength of the graphics or anything, they want to get Shyamalan'd. The characters are good, the structure was interesting, the Rad-6 ending was fantastic, but the true ending of ZTD is a wet fart.

quote:

Also lol at you being totally okay with all the other impossible poo poo that happens but your spoiler is just one step too far?

The only other real out-there poo poo that's not just handwaved by super-science is psychics and that's the thrust of the whole franchise. The aliens are only there to dump the artifact that the plot necessitates and are never mentioned again, even tangentially. They absolutely could have done something cool there, I mean they have half the pieces already with the mission to Mars, antimatter reactors, global plagues and stuff, it just felt a lot like they wrote the whole plot around the transporter and then had to go back and figure out where it came from later, tossing in a line or two about aliens in its room at the last possible second.

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
Life is certainly unfair, don't you think?

Death Zebra
May 14, 2014

PubicMice posted:

Isn't it literally impossible to get all the trophies in those games now, since some of them are for online, and since THQ went under the online just straight doesn't exist anymore?

The first has no online trophies. As for the second:

playstationtrophies.org posted:

Pay It Forward is now impossible due to server closure but the platinum trophy is still possible in the PS4 version due to all the online stuff being removed.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

It was because the main writer hated Yennefer for some reason lol

A good man.

One of my highlights for W3 was finally being able to tell Yen to gently caress off after the genie business, there wasn't a single scene previous that I can remember where I liked her even a bit.

Kaubocks
Apr 13, 2011

Action Tortoise posted:

I just finished Binary Domain right after blazing through Vanquish. It's interesting how those two are third-person cover shooters made by Japanese developers featuring robots as the main antagonists and have very different scope and design philosophies.

I enjoyed BD overall, but I think it's juggling too many ideas. There's some really good stuff like what artificial intelligence means to human rights, do faked memories invalidate identity, the wealth gap hinders upward mobility for the lower class, and whether people from one generation should inherit the punishment of their parents' "crimes." Also, there's some low key bitching about how Japan gets hosed over by the West time and again.

Yeah I played through Binary Domain a couple years ago and was pleasantly surprised. Gameplay was serviceable but destroying robots generally never got old because of how well they crumpled and all that poo poo. Story fell kinda flat for me, mostly in particular with that big reveal about two thirds of the way in or whatever. It just never really resonated with me why it was such a big deal to everyone.

It's a shame too because that intro bit where it introduces the concept of hollow children I thought was super well done and I was 100% hooked.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Kaubocks posted:

Yeah I played through Binary Domain a couple years ago and was pleasantly surprised. Gameplay was serviceable but destroying robots generally never got old because of how well they crumpled and all that poo poo. Story fell kinda flat for me, mostly in particular with that big reveal about two thirds of the way in or whatever. It just never really resonated with me why it was such a big deal to everyone.

It's a shame too because that intro bit where it introduces the concept of hollow children I thought was super well done and I was 100% hooked.

If it stuck to a single premise, it would have enough room in the game to properly explore an idea. The beginning feels like B-movie schlock (which is A-OK with me) but then the endgame reveals make everyone act like characters in a Yoko Taro story, which is usually cool but not when it feels like it was done unintentionally.

I gotta say though the best experience is to play this alongside Vanquish because it's like a snapshot of Japanese developers circa the big cover shooter craze trying to appeal to Western audiences and how both sides go about it.

NoEyedSquareGuy
Mar 16, 2009

Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."
Zelda: Breath of the Wild

The map is too big. This is probably a dumb complaint since the whole point of the game is how massive and open-ended everything is, but a lot of it is just "filler land" for lack of a better term. Massive in terms of square miles, but there's not much detail to most of it besides the same scattered cooking ingredients everywhere and an occasional enemy outpost. Add in the need to get your horse specifically from a stable instead of being able to summon it wherever, and there's a whole lot of time spent slowly running, climbing, and gliding between whatever objective you're actually trying to reach.

Might just be fatigue with so many open world games, but it feels padded out to me and I'm not really enjoying the game as much as I expected after all the hype. The actual content like the shrines or ancient beasts is fine, but it's a lot of dead time in between. I've only done one of the ancient beasts and 20 shrines, but I'm already getting to the point where I want to start beelining from one story objective to the next because all the resource gathering stuff in between isn't any more interesting than the identical busywork in the Far Cry series. Doesn't help that so many of the shrines are also functionally identical combat trials, I've done the same one about six times already.

There's also some tradeoff for how much open space the Switch can render vs. how detailed it can be, so you're climbing over massive mountain ranges to get wherever you're going but it's all the same smudgy green or brown mountain texture. I don't really care about graphics in a game like this, but it looks bad enough that it takes away from how grand everything is supposed to be. Like they need better hardware to achieve the look they were going for, even if it's just so they can have more procedurally generated grass/trees, better textures, etc.

Still relatively early in terms of story progression so maybe something will happen to break up the tedium, but right now it feels like they've taken an average Zelda game's amount of content and put it in a game world much larger than it needs to be.

Zahi
Jun 4, 2009

bent

NoEyedSquareGuy posted:

Zelda: Breath of the Wild

Still relatively early in terms of story progression so maybe something will happen to break up the tedium, but right now it feels like they've taken an average Zelda game's amount of content and put it in a game world much larger than it needs to be.

See I'm totally the opposite. I think the game is dense with "moments" for lack of a better term. I feel like the feeling of finding some cool desolate shrine is what makes the landscape live and breathe as a believable setting and if they made it more packed with action and things to do, you would take out the neutral space that characterizes the experience. There is something about how you feel when you experience the landscape that I think if you look at it like an assassins creed or a farcry where you're supposed to be off to the next map marker, its going to fall flat for you.

scarycave
Oct 9, 2012

Dominic Beegan:
Exterminator For Hire
I really haven't been able to bring myself to play breath of wild lately, usually when I get my hands on a zelda I will play it from start to finish but there is just so much to do in BOTW that I'm just thinking of getting the final sacred beast and just getting the game over with.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


I put down the new Zelda and have no interest in going back. Sure there's shrines everywhere and some are out of the way but it doesn't feel any different than say an Elder Scrolls game. Oh sure Skyrim is huge and there's caves out in the middle of nowhere but why? Why is it that big other than "why not?" It doesn't have to be a straight linear ordeal but there's a point where it's so big and vast as dickwaving rather than any real reason.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


See, I adore BOTW because it's huge, dense and really fun but doesn't try to be like Elder Scrolls.

People always complain that ES games are wide but shallow and I'd have to agree. Zelda uses every piece of the world in interesting ways. Nothing feels out of place.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Inzombiac posted:

See, I adore BOTW because it's huge, dense and really fun but doesn't try to be like Elder Scrolls.

People always complain that ES games are wide but shallow and I'd have to agree. Zelda uses every piece of the world in interesting ways. Nothing feels out of place.

I wouldn't go that far - there are a lot of massive stretches of absolute nothing (featureless fields, stretches of rock, etc). The game world could probably be shrunk down significantly with the game still feeling the same.

In BotW you have to walk forever to get anywhere, and then you can't use your horse because you have to climb over a thing, and the thing you're climbing is a completely featureless and smooth "mountain" with a perfectly rounded top. And then, of course, you're without your horse the rest of the way because "horses can't follow you everywhere" is the one thing they decided they had to be realistic about.

I like BotW and I'll probably get around to finishing it one day but it is a game filled to the brim with little annoyances. I don't think anyone would've minded if they put in a UI for cooking, for example, or let you sort ingredients at all. Or if rain was taken out entirely - it stops you from progressing (no climbing), but you can't build a fire to pass time, so you might as well leave the game running while you make a sandwich or something. Sure, you could teleport away and come back, but there's no guarantee that it wouldn't just be raining again, and it means all the time you spent getting to the area in the first place would've been wasted.

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
GTA V.

The installation system. I'm not playing this on disc, and I was fine waiting for the thing the XBox marketplace said was the game to download, because they've got this nice progress bar that shows how close you are to being done. The Install Packs do not show on the downloader, I don't think they install if you're not in the game, so you just have these nice screens and some pleasant music and no loving clue how long this is supposed to take.

I get that it's a huge game but dear Lord what is this nonsense.

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