|
Ok fair enough, friend  I just can't get worked up over it, you know? Like if someone brought an army which dominated 3 times out of 4 you bet your rear end i'd find a way to even things up with house rules!
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 08:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 03:23 |
|
|
Jeff Sichoe posted:Long time lurker first time poster; This is what everyone says whenever some bad rule comes out, and it never happens. Superheavies, Knights, Forge-World stuff, 2+ rerollable invun saves, the Invisibility power. In theory you Can house rule stuff, in practice unless you're only playing with a couple of other people who also agree to the same rules, it doesn't happen. The art direction has been taking itself too seriously for a long time now, the fluff is selectively good in content but mostly badly written and for every 'good' piece of background, there's a BA-Necron fistbump or planet-wide suicide bombing Farseer (from Codex:Iyanden) PP is Privateer Press, they make Warmachine and Hoards- there older models aren't as good but in the last couple of years they've come on leaps and bounds and are on a par with GW now. ^^ The problem is a lot of the players play to Win. Hard. So there not going to agree to unofficial nerfing of there new toys
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 09:04
|
|
|
Honestly these rumors of this Eldar Codex are depressing, it honestly makes me want to stop playing which is loving dumb as hell. Nothing should make someone want to quit their, albeit lovely, hobby this badly just out of the release of a new set of rules for a different faction. And I just played a 2750 pt game with my newly assembled force of tyrant's legion: On to different topics, I realized today just how small a deployment zone can be as I proceeded to fit 3 knights, 3 artillery guns, 3 laser rapier destroyers, like 2 tanks, and a whopping total of 122 pieces of infantry on the board, that was a bitch. And yes that is a weapon to surpass metal gear: the imperial knight Imperatus Rex. Edit: Forgot to describe the scene up here in Fairbanks, we have montly tournaments so we have a relatively large competitive community. Sivores fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Apr 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 10:28
|
|
|
This thread is 7 th edition all over again. Jesus Christ it's a game, don't buy the new book. You don't have to buy the latest edition. Chill out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 10:53
|
|
|
osirisisdead posted:The quality of models has slipped relative to other companies who have brought it hard in the past few years. What you say might have been true when you registered your account and started lurking, but it's 2015 now. The Tabletop Renaissance is happening, and GW is getting left in the loving dust. Also the Dreamforge Leviathans
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 11:17
|
|
|
Sivores posted:Honestly these rumors of this Eldar Codex are depressing, it honestly makes me want to stop playing which is loving dumb as hell. Nothing should make someone want to quit their, albeit lovely, hobby this badly just out of the release of a new set of rules for a different faction. And I just played a 2750 pt game with my newly assembled force of tyrant's legion: That is a very promising looking army mate! Tyrant's Legion is both a cool idea and something you don't see very often. Can I ask what you used for the artillery platforms/what you paid/where you got them? I have looked several times at WWII field pieces to use as earthshaker platforms (can't quite bring myself to pay for the FW artillery) but they either don't look quite right, or are just as expensive.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 11:36
|
|
|
ijyt posted:This thread is 7 th edition all over again. Jesus Christ it's a game, don't buy the new book. It's the same thing every other codex, every single edition.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 12:45
|
|
|
Farseer: same point cost. Runes of Witnessing come standard for free and can be used once per turn instead of once per game Warlock Council: works as a single psyker (Brotherhood of Psykers?) 1-3 ML1, 4-6 ML2, 7+ ML3. They can choose Sanctic and Runes of Battle (a bad unit) Vypers: 40 points/model. Squad size: 1-6 Walkers: same as before Vehicle upgrades are the same except Vectored Engines seem to be gone and the Flyers can take upgrades except for Holo-fields. Holo-fields give a 5++ now (they are bad) Serpent Shield is gone (defensive thing is lost) after the once per game shot is fired. RIP Holo-fields 
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 12:46
|
|
|
Business Gorillas posted:I don't know why you goons are belly aching about these changes. Frankly, I think that 40k needed to be taken in a different direction and I'm glad GW is brave enough to do it. Anyone who bit on this obviously hasn't been following End Times.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 12:47
|
|
|
Aspect Warriors special rules: purchasable Exarch Powers are gone but each Exarch has a built-in special power. Also they have two wounds now! Dire Avengers: Choose one: Overwatch at BS2 or Counter-attack and Stubborn Exarch: 4++ Howling Banshees: +3" to run or assault moves. Ignore the penalty to Initiative when assaulting through difficult terrain. Fear. No Overwatch allowed when Banshees assault Exarch: Units in CC with the Banshees have -2L Frog Stingin' Scorpions: Stealth. Shrouded until they shoot or assault. Exarch: During a challenge, compare the Initiative values of the Frog Stingin' Exarch and his opponent. If the Frog Stingin' Exarch has greater Initiative, he gets a number of bonus Attacks equal to the difference in values. Fire Dragons: +1 on the vehicle damage chart. Exarch: Once per turn, may re-roll one failed to hit, to wound or armor penetration roll Swooping Hawks: If the move over a flier, every modl gets one special attack that hits on 4+, S4, AP4, Haywire. They move 18" Exarch: The unit does not scatter when they deep strike Warp Spiders: Warp jump is the same as before, 6+2D6", lose a model on doubles. However now they can choose to jump (2D6") in the opponent's shooting phase after they are chosen as a target for a shooting attack. If they are out of range or LoS after this movement, the shooting unit cannot choose another target. If they jump in the opponent's shooting phase, they cannot Warp jump on their next turn. Exarch: The unit may re-roll failed Leadership tests Shining Spears: 4+ cover save Exarch: may re-roll failed to wound vs MCs and armor penetration rolls Dark Reapers: may re-roll failed to hit rolls if the target is a Flyer or has turbo-boosted/moved flat out in the previous turn Exarch: His weapon fires an extra shot (old Fast Shot)
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:04
|
|
|
Those are cool rules for cool Aspects. And Farseers rerolling feels good since they should be some of the best psykers. (Though should be second to Tzeentch Demons!) Any word on ghost helm? I have to imagine they would do something to that. It was back when a single warpcharge was hard to come by.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:13
|
|
will blow your mind.
|
They finally made Aspect Warriors cool, too bad they broke the game to do it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:13
|
|
|
WhiteOutMouse posted:Any word on ghost helm? I have to imagine they would do something to that. It was back when a single warpcharge was hard to come by. It's the same Farseers are basically immune to Perils forever
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:14
|
|
|
Interesting. At least the council unit was turned into a horror squad and won't make 10s of charge each phase. Though farseers will be well equipped and there is a formation for 3+ to cast it seems like a net loss in the psyker area. Probably need to see it all in action though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:21
|
|
|
The only nerfs that matter in the Codex: Serpent Shield is once per game instead of infinite use, 24" range instead of 60", loses defensive aspect after it's fired Laser Lock was removed entirely so you can no longer twin-link the Serpent Shield (not that it would matter much with the one use only) Holo-fields are a 5++ now which is like infinitely worse than +1 to cover save. Definitely not worth 15 points Spiritseers no longer make Wraithbros Troops so they aren't very useful Warlock Councils kind of suck Monofilament is not quite as good as it used to be Mantle of the Laughing God was removed WhiteOutMouse posted:Interesting. At least the council unit was turned into a horror squad and won't make 10s of charge each phase. Though farseers will be well equipped and there is a formation for 3+ to cast it seems like a net loss in the psyker area. Probably need to see it all in action though. The loss of the Mantleseer is kind of a big deal, Farseers will need retinues now and are probably just more fragile in general. The Seer Council formation requires two Farseers and a Warlock Council which seems like a pretty sizable investment in HQ. Personally I wouldn't bother and I can't see many tournament lists running it considering the limitations on Detachments and Formations that tournaments tend to have.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:29
|
|
|
METAL GEAR?!
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:30
|
|
|
Considering the Warlocks are now squad upgrades I dont see the reason to ever take a council. The changes also make Eldar vehicles very frail unlike before. Before everyone gets in a tizzy over the D, consider that the Eldar seem to have lost a lot of the toughness (except Scorpions and Spears) Boon fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Apr 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:33
|
|
|
Phoenix Lords: Asurmen (220) 4++ (3++ if fighting in a challenge). Gets 1D3 Warlord traits. Sword is +1S, AP2, Mastercrafterd. For each wound take a Ld test. If failed model dies. Jain Zar (200) When fighting in a challange, Jain Zar chooses a weapon of is opponent. He may not use this weapon. If done so, Jain Zar has -1A. Enemy models at +6" get -5 to WS (Mínimum 1). Her sword is AP2, Shred. Karandras (200) When arriving from reserves can choose any border. His mandiblaster ignores ALL saves. Fuegan (220) He gets +1S and +1A for each lost wound. Baharroth (170) When DS all units at 6" are treated as hit by a weapon with the Blind SR. Maugan Ra (195) Can fire his Maugetar twice per turn (That means 8 S6 Rending shots). Maugetar has an alternative profile: Assault 1, S1, Poison 2+. If one model dies, put 5" marker. All models under the template get a S5 AP4 hit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:41
|
|
|
Those warhost changes do make aspect warriors cool and worth using! I agree with MasterSlowPoke though, they basically hosed up the codex by making the stuff that was already very good absolutely loving insane - and as good as the aspect warriors special boosts are, they are still T3 expensive infantry and will be worse, competitively, than jetbikes/wraiths/vehicles/MCs. I don't care, I'm glad to be able to diversify my Eldar a bit. 2 things concern me a bit: You have to take a hell of a lot of psykers for the formations. Eg for the windrider core formation, I gather I need a farseer (sure) and a warlock conclave (bit of a problem if, as rumoured, this is a separate unit that can't be split up - you either built an elite squad or pay a 50pt useless tax). Then the jetbikes and vypers, great. But a seer council is on top of the farseer+warlocks you already have, so I don't think that will be seen outside of big games. Second, they haven't completely hosed up shining spears, although unlike the other aspects their inherent special rules don't add anything they didn't have from jink. lovely impact rule is probably the same, squad has same issues. But I loving loving loving hope the idiots remembered to give them H&R, they had it from an exarch upgrade before and those are gone now. It would be typical of them to overlook that. I've just built the rest of the fuckers and without H&R they are just shooting yourself in the foot. At least they can get +1WS now. I know that sounds really whiny given how great the codex looks. I am massively grateful for the changes, but people are freaking out about this poo poo. I am going to have to walk round asking people for games and then apologising for playing eldar, and also dealing with some of the guys I play with who actually will try and take all the wraithknights and D-weapons backed up by S6 spam. Hilarious stuff on dakka though, there are idiots trying to mobilise the proletariat to rise up and overthrow the new eldar overlords by mass protest!
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:43
|
|
|
It's kinda nice that they provided the only unit in the game that can actually hurt a Wraithknight pretty well, but it all seems kinda pointless. At least Wraithblades are kinda ok now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 13:50
|
|
|
Exarchs and Skitarii "sergeants" have two wounds. I wonder if this is going to be standard for sergeants going forward.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:19
|
|
|
Phyresis posted:Exarchs and Skitarii "sergeants" have two wounds. I wonder if this is going to be standard for sergeants going forward. Yes, it's a bit inconsistent isn't it? They are the only two (besides ork nobz, who have had this since at least 3rd edition) to have this. Exarchs have a sort of background legacy for it, since in 2nd edition they were full on characters, skitarii there is no benchmark. Worth noting that warlocks have 1W still, but consistency is not GW's forte, so who knows.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:31
|
|
|
I think it will be the standard for 'bigger' sergeants, like Exarchs and the army leaders of the mini codexes. I could see Terminator sergeants getting the boost, hopefully for free.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:33
|
|
|
Do they cost the same despite the extra wound? If so, a ton of 2-wound HQs (Chaplains, Dark Apostles, etc) just got ovecosted and uselesss in comparison.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:35
|
|
|
I think they're still 10 points for the upgrade. Chaplains and Dark Apostles were always overcosted and useless
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:39
|
|
|
Howling Banshees: +3" to run or assault moves. Ignore the penalty to Initiative when assaulting through difficult terrain. Fear. No Overwatch allowed when Banshees assault Exarch: Units in CC with the Banshees have -2L Am I nuts or is this actually pretty nice? Like casual game. sure why not, nice?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:43
|
|
|
So any news on the Avatar? Still 195 for something that is completely slow/killable? How do upgrades work?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:44
|
|
|
Phyresis posted:I think they're still 10 points for the upgrade. Chaplains and Dark Apostles were always overcosted and useless Wow. That's stellar design right there. One book gets +WS, BS, leadership, extra wound/attack and strong buffs for 10 points on the squad leader. Others get +1 attack, Leadership and that's it. Even if the intent is to spread this for all books, it'll be a looong time of lopsided play until it happens, and when it oes it will make a whole category of HQs (more) pointless.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:48
|
|
|
LingcodKilla posted:Howling Banshees: +3" to run or assault moves. Ignore the penalty to Initiative when assaulting through difficult terrain. Fear. No Overwatch allowed when Banshees assault Sure but in the end they are S3 and fragile as gently caress. wounding on 5+ sucks Boon posted:So any news on the Avatar? Still 195 for something that is completely slow/killable? How do upgrades work? Khaine Awakened bubble also grants Furious Charge and Rage in addition to the Fearless. Also his sword is S+2 now (8 in cc) and is a Lord of War not HQ. No options Eldrad is 10 points cheaper at 195 Phyresis fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Apr 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:48
|
|
|
Scorpions seems like they could be actually useful now... assuming the Exarch is good. Also, everyone seems to be all about the possibility of Scatter Lasers on bikes but the Shurican Cannons seem like a far better option. Less shots, sure, shorter range, sure, but they're also pseduo-rending with a possibility of army-wide Shred. Boon fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Apr 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 14:49
|
|
|
Boon posted:Scorpions seems like they could be actually useful now... assuming the Exarch is good. Mandiblasters are now an automatic hit that wounds on a 4+ (6+ against GCs). Scorpions were ok before, now they're "good" Boon posted:Also, everyone seems to be all about the possibility of Scatter Lasers on bikes but the Shurican Cannons seem like a far better option. Less shots, sure, shorter range, sure, but they're also pseduo-rending with a possibility of army-wide Shred. Maybe if you're running the Windrider Host formation. I think I'd go with the scatter lasers otherwise
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 15:02
|
|
|
Phyresis posted:Mandiblasters are now an automatic hit that wounds on a 4+ (6+ against GCs). Scorpions were ok before, now they're "good" Yes, I'd agree that scatter lasers are the hands down CAD choice. Between vehicles and cover/inv saves, the extra shot and range is just too good for the same price. Shred is only one turn/game, but it makes them pretty deadly and useful against MCs and such. Eager to see how slightly-cheaper vypers work out. The buffs to aspect warriors are all very good and cool. Still only makes them good in casual games, not good against heavy opposition.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 15:14
|
|
|
Jeff Sichoe posted:Long time lurker first time poster; This can work, but it has two big strikes against it; first of all, you have to actually do something that fixes the problem. People tend to forget that game design is actually a very complex issue, so you'll see lots of "solutions" that either don't solve the problem or that go so far as to complete eviscerate whatever the problem unit was, rendering it utterly worthless. Second, you need something that people will agree too- this is actually the hard part, because it's virtually impossible to get the whole Warhammer community to agree about anything. I know at least a handful of folks who, even right now, claim that the 6E Serpent Shield wasn't broken and was totally fine if you knew how to play against it. (And no, they weren't Eldar players.) Implementing a set of rules changes that a significant portion of the community will accept is immensely difficult, and of all the things that Frontline Gaming has managed to do, I would say that is far and away the most impressive. Phyresis posted:Exarchs and Skitarii "sergeants" have two wounds. I wonder if this is going to be standard for sergeants going forward. Harlequin Troupe Masters also have two wounds. I don't think it'll be "standard," but for minor factions (like Harlies/Skitarii) and for certain other unusual characters (like Nobs and Exarchs) I think you'll see it occasionally. Boon posted:Scorpions seems like they could be actually useful now... assuming the Exarch is good. The extra 12" range and extra shot are way better than pseudorending. If Shuriken Cannons were all that Jetbikes could get still, even if it was on every guy, I'd call them impressively good but not broken. The additional reach makes a huge difference in their ability to snipe at stuff while hiding and the extra shot is a straight-up 33% firepower increase.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 15:14
|
|
|
wrap it up, Imperiailures, 40k is over close thread
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 15:23
|
|
|
AbusePuppy posted:The extra 12" range and extra shot are way better than pseudorending. If Shuriken Cannons were all that Jetbikes could get still, even if it was on every guy, I'd call them impressively good but not broken. The additional reach makes a huge difference in their ability to snipe at stuff while hiding and the extra shot is a straight-up 33% firepower increase. Completely disagree. In fact, by the numbers, the Shuriken Cannon outperforms the Scatter Laser in every situation where the target isn't: a) 6+ Save b) A vehicle So basically anything that is either infantry or a MC the Shuriken Cannon is better for. The 12" range decrease is the only significant factor - which is largely mitigated by the platform.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 15:24
|
|
|
The stormtrooper platoon sergeants also have 2 wounds, and have to be warlord if that's your primary detachment. This means that when I take my Scions Ground Assault Formation, my warlord is easier to kill than the Lord Commissar who's watching his back. I think the competitive scene will suffer pretty badly with this poo poo, but beer and pretzels/friendly games probably won't be much different. I doubt people were taking 3 Wraithknights and 6 Wave Serpents in friendly games anyway, and I doubt they'll jump on the new competitive bandwagon. Just because the potential for a dickish and overpowered army list is there doesn't mean everyone will play it that way. Well, outside the competitive scene of course. Pickup games can be wholly hit and miss, but that's always been true.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 15:37
|
|
|
Boon posted:Completely disagree. Can you show the numbers for this please? I don't doubt it's true against 2+ and 3+ save troops in the open, but how about 2+ save troops with a 3+ inv, or 3+ save troops with a 5+ cover save?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 15:44
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:Also the Dreamforge Leviathans
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 15:46
|
|
|
Captain Invictus posted:Looking at the Knight sprue, it doesn't seem like it's all that poseable. Considering A: the lower price and B: the incredible level of articulation and detail on the Leviathans, it's staggering how poor a model the Knight is in comparison. My biggest disappointment w/r/t the Knight is the monopose legs. Stability is nice, but I really wanted to use an interesting base and have a pose that isn't identical to everyone else's. The Knight is still much more poseable than Colossals, but not necessarily where it counts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 16:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 03:23 |
|
|
Jeff Sichoe posted:Long time lurker first time poster; In addition to what other people have said, I am also not inclined to pay over a hundred dollars (rulebook+codex) for a set of rules where I have to try to do the designers' jobs for them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2015 16:21
|
|
