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I watched that GN review and thought it weird he didn't compare it to the 3300x or 3100. as impossible to find as they are/were they still turn up in prebuilds a ton and the 12100 feels real competitive there.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:53
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WhyteRyce posted:PC playback has been a minefield since forever and I swear no one actually does it except for the few weirdos left wanting to build HTPCs Also those few weirdos get very specific models of UHD drives and flash them with hacked firmware to circumvent the DRM and play 4K discs on whatever hardware in VLC anyways 
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Jan 17, 2022 04:23
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DoombatINC posted:Also those few weirdos get very specific models of UHD drives and flash them with hacked firmware to circumvent the DRM and play 4K discs on whatever hardware in VLC anyways Was that with the Oppo 203/205 or whatever? I almost bought a 205 before it was discontinued and I'm sad I didn't because it was also pretty much the pinacle of audio technology in a disc player too. Debauer supposedly found two B660 boards that support BCLK OC and a video is upcoming, the era of 33-50% overclocks on logical purchases might be upon us again.
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Jan 17, 2022 14:23
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BurritoJustice posted:Was that with the Oppo 203/205 or whatever? I almost bought a 205 before it was discontinued and I'm sad I didn't because it was also pretty much the pinacle of audio technology in a disc player too. Mine's an LG BU40N, a 9.5mm drive usually reserved for laptops and USB-powered enclosures
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Jan 17, 2022 17:58
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Buildzoid explains the washer mod in his typical rambling manner better than anyone else I've seen, putting to rest some misconceptions: Huh, not at all what I had guessed. Looks like lapping the IHS wouldn’t really help, either, since even if it were nice and flat it wouldn’t stay that way.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:20
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forbidden dialectics posted:Huh, not at all what I had guessed. Looks like lapping the IHS wouldn’t really help, either, since even if it were nice and flat it wouldn’t stay that way. Buying a budget motherboard, cutting out just the socket area, and then lapping a mounted CPU is something some overclockers do. It still won't remain perfectly flat when doing this due to the gradual deformation of the pins and CPU over time, but it'll be flatter than it currently is. Just lapping the CPU on its own won't be enough though, no.
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Jan 17, 2022 22:24
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8700k->12700k gave about 50% FPS increase in Cyberpunk and Tarkov with RTX 3080, 2560x1440. Seems the CPU was a huge bottlenec. WIll have to adjust memory settings later to see if I can get even more perf out of this.
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Jan 20, 2022 00:01
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Ihmemies posted:8700k->12700k gave about 50% FPS increase in Cyberpunk and Tarkov with RTX 3080, 2560x1440. Wow, as an 8700k haver (although just a 2070rtx) this is pretty interesting to me. I stupidly got an ultrawide too so 3440x1440 is p brutal 
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Jan 20, 2022 00:14
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8700 is a POS. I owned one, I hated it.
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Jan 20, 2022 04:53
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Why, too spicy without a delid?
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Jan 20, 2022 04:57
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That too. I had to delid mine and it was a pain. The new Asus Z690 Strix A was awful too. Noctua NH-D15 did not fit. Heatpipes made contact with a plastic shroud over the vrm heatsinks above cpu socket. I had to manually remove the insulting piece of plastic with a saw  Also Corsair ML140 fans suck. They are dreadfully loud at over 500rpm, while Arctic P12's are good at 800 and 1100rpm for 1/3 of the price. I am not sure about the exact performance figures, but they are unbelievably better. Seems at least some games were very CPU bottlenecked with a 8700K. I think I need more fans before tweaking with memory settings though, b.die likes to stay cool and with a 3080 and 12700K temps are not so cool inside my case anymore. I mean I bought 4 new fans but they are so loud I don't want to use them. I need to buy more Arctic P12's...
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Jan 20, 2022 05:55
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Yup the ML120s that came with my Corsair cooler also were pretty bad (and not just at high RPM). For whatever reason Corsair feels those fans deserve premium pricing.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:00
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I think the stock fan on most mass market coolers leave much to be desired. The stock fans on my otherwise well reviewed EVGA 280mm CLC were atrocious (annoyingly loud at any RPM), and I couldn't stand using the cooler until I bought some 140mm Noctua fans.
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Jan 20, 2022 07:09
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Boat Stuck posted:I think the stock fan on most mass market coolers leave much to be desired. The stock fans on my otherwise well reviewed EVGA 280mm CLC were atrocious (annoyingly loud at any RPM), and I couldn't stand using the cooler until I bought some 140mm Noctua fans. I feel like any reviewer who gives a cooler that's obnoxiously loud at any normal RPM setting a good score is a bad reviewer. The EVGA CLC series is notably very loud. It's okay-ish as long as you keep the RPMs under 50%, but even then there are better options out there where you don't have to worry about this. (e.g. arctic liquid freezer, EK AIO)
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Jan 20, 2022 08:56
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Ihmemies posted:The new Asus Z690 Strix A was awful too. Noctua NH-D15 did not fit. Heatpipes made contact with a plastic shroud over the vrm heatsinks above cpu socket. I had to manually remove the insulting piece of plastic with a saw what are your cinebench or blender benchmark all-core temps with the 12700K and D15? I got a D15S (not D15) on mine, keeps things comfortable within spec, but not 'cool'. MSI Pro Z690-A with tower cooler power limits in BIOS, so it'll draw heavy, and temps get to 90 C (machine also has CL16 DDR4-3600 feeding the cpu). Still about 10 C under throttle so I'm ok with it, seems better than some people, worse than others from my googling. the D15S does fit my mobo just fine, but man, I wish I had mounted the mobo in the case and connected some nearby cables before mounting the HSF. It was a real pain routing the CPU 8-pin connectors in next to that big rear end HSF.
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Jan 20, 2022 13:16
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I will have to look at it after work today and post resutls here. What is the difference, S has a single fan when regular version comes with 2 fans? I'm planning to add 1-2 exhaust fans and maybe 1 intake fan because the CPU is hungrier than my 8700K. 8700K went up to 150W while this 12700K can go up to 200-250W. I will try out my memory's XMP spec (3600/15-15-15) only after improving the case cooling, hopefully next week. Currently I have only 3 14cm Arctic P14 intake fans cooling my 3080 and 12700k  No other case fans.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:02
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What's your case?
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Jan 20, 2022 14:06
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Ihmemies posted:I will have to look at it after work today and post resutls here. What is the difference, S has a single fan when regular version comes with 2 fans? yeah, and slight differences to heat sink design to make it more widely compatible. details here: https://noctua.at/en/whats-the-difference-between-nh-d15-and-nh-d15s
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Jan 20, 2022 14:25
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Rinkles posted:What's your case? Meshify S2. I have the intake foam removed and replaced with much thinner and more breathable mesh fabric. 3x Arctic P14 intake fans idle around 800rpm and 1100rpm under load. It feels like the top of the case especially gets warm/hot, so 1-2 exhaust fans near CPU could help things stay cooler there.  The case is quite small, Torrent would be better, roomier. I just don't like the weird convex roof the case has. Why they can't make it flat?
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Jan 20, 2022 14:26
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Does the speed of intake fans make much of a difference to temperatures?
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Jan 20, 2022 14:48
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Rinkles posted:Does the speed of intake fans make much of a difference to temperatures? In theory the air should have multiple pathways to exit the case, and take heat out while at it. So the more air gets pumped to the case, the more air (and heat) exits the case. I have not tested it but I assume it is true. Air (and heat) doesn't move very well unless fans force it to move.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:55
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Adding an extra 120mm exhaust fan (making two 120mm fans exhausting) lowered the cpu temp in my lancool 215 by about 2 to 3c under full load. Also it got a lot quieter when I replaced their stock DC exhaust fan with a noctua pwm lol.
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Jan 20, 2022 15:04
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repiv posted:Why, too spicy without a delid? Yeah exactly. Any small system load would ramp temps near instantly. Vroooom Vrooom Vrooom my fans said.
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Jan 20, 2022 16:45
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I am running now on DDR2133. After bios upgrade first boot froze to desktop. CB23 single core was 1817 with this hot rear end memory speed. multicore at apparently 150W power limit was 19927 I am missing about 10% of perf with current settings, so I need to figure out how memory OC works these days...  Or if my sticks even work with the new mobo.P-cores were 68-74C and E-cores 60-61C. Case fans "Idle" at arouind 850rpm.
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Jan 20, 2022 18:36
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Ihmemies posted:I am running now on DDR2133. After bios upgrade first boot froze to desktop. These are old sticks, I'm assuming? Memory OC is a huge pain. I'd recommend just getting some DDR4-3600 CL16, which can be had for $80-ish for 16GB, and then enabling their XMP profile in your BIOS. unrelated edit: Update on the whole non-K overclocking thing, apparently at least one B660 board supports it, the Asus ROG Strix B660-F Gaming. It costs about the same as low-end Z690 boards (low $200s), and it's also DDR5-only. So still no truly inexpensive options yet. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 22:31
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:unrelated edit: Update on the whole non-K overclocking thing, apparently at least one B660 board supports it, the Asus ROG Strix B660-F Gaming. It costs about the same as low-end Z690 boards (low $200s), and it's also DDR5-only. So still no truly inexpensive options yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUzExonH5TM&t=1s Z690 Hero Z690 Apex B660-F B660-G seems to be the confirmed options so far. Wonder how long it will take for a) someone to release a cheaper DDR4 board with this support and/or b) intel to aggressively shut this down.
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Jan 21, 2022 01:16
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Why would they shut this down? The number of people who will pass up a more expensive chip over this option has to be the tiniest of blips of the total sales numbers.
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Jan 21, 2022 05:22
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Trolling Thunder posted:Why would they shut this down? The number of people who will pass up a more expensive chip over this option has to be the tiniest of blips of the total sales numbers. This exact thing happpened before and Intel blew it up real quick last time around. The only difference is that they don't have a complete chokehold over the market anymore.
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Jan 21, 2022 14:30
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Trolling Thunder posted:Why would they shut this down? The number of people who will pass up a more expensive chip over this option has to be the tiniest of blips of the total sales numbers. Intel sells a 6 P-core overclockable CPU, it’s $100 more. They sell an overclocking chipset, it’s ~$60 more. In Intels own lingo, it’s an “enthusiast” feature with a price premium. As discussed in the vid, they have historically swooped down with a fury on any attempts to overclock frequencies on non-k CPUs or with non-Z chipsets. We will see what they do this time.
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Jan 21, 2022 14:58
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We need a new street champ like the old Celeron 300a.
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Jan 21, 2022 15:01
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Cygni posted:Intel sells a 6 P-core overclockable CPU, it’s $100 more. They sell an overclocking chipset, it’s ~$60 more. In Intels own lingo, it’s an “enthusiast” feature with a price premium. As discussed in the vid, they have historically swooped down with a fury on any attempts to overclock frequencies on non-k CPUs or with non-Z chipsets. We will see what they do this time. Counterpoint: RAM overclocking on non-Z boards for 10th+ generation processors.
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Jan 21, 2022 15:03
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bobfather posted:Counterpoint: RAM overclocking on non-Z boards for 10th+ generation processors. Intel doesn't sell RAM AFAIK. If they did, overclocking it would also be a "premium feature" and they'd sell frequency locked modules.
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Jan 21, 2022 15:43
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Cygni posted:Intel sells a 6 P-core overclockable CPU, it’s $100 more. They sell an overclocking chipset, it’s ~$60 more. In Intels own lingo, it’s an “enthusiast” feature with a price premium. As discussed in the vid, they have historically swooped down with a fury on any attempts to overclock frequencies on non-k CPUs or with non-Z chipsets. We will see what they do this time. Unlike previously, there is further differentiation in that the 12600k also has e cores, so their market segmentation isn't completely destroyed by this. Who knows.
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Jan 21, 2022 15:46
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I can’t see Intel not squashing this, personally. I mean, allowing ram OC on B/H chipsets was a corporate decision to stay platform competitive with AMD. This non-K OC stuff is something Asus cooked up in secret that bypasses Intels own product segmentation on both CPUs and chipsets. Intel coulda had the 12400 (or B/H boards) unlocked all along, and consciously chose not to. Think it’s highly likely that future BIOS updates will brick this, but since it’s already out in the wild, probably too late to totally kill it. Good on Asus for stirring the pot and doing something fun again.
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Jan 21, 2022 16:18
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product differentiation is for cowards and if there are significant gains to be made intel should let people goofily overclock their poo poo. they poured liquid fuckin nitrogen on the 3100 for goodness sake intel. be cool about it.
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Jan 21, 2022 16:39
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The extreme market segmentation lengths Intel goes to is absolutely bullshit, but fundamentally it exists to increase waver yield with binning. Not that we're likely to ever find out, but it'd be interesting to know how detailed the binning is.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:03
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The extreme market segmentation lengths Intel goes to is absolutely bullshit, but fundamentally it exists to increase waver yield with binning. The 12400, 12500, and 12600 are not the same dies as the 12600k - the first and foremost reason is to exercise price discrimination so they can maximize profits. Everybody else is doing the same poo poo of course, it's basically business 101.
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Jan 21, 2022 19:06
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Market segmentation isn't inherently a bad thing. Be glad that Intel is letting 12900k buyers subsidize everyone else.
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Jan 21, 2022 19:23
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Enos Cabell posted:We need a new street champ like the old Celeron 300a. Most recent Intel street champ was 2600K, IMO. Before that... I want to say the 2.4 or 2.53 Northwood P4s were fairly decent OCs if you had the cooling to keep up (but they also then got their poo poo kicked in my AMD).
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Jan 21, 2022 19:24
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K8.0 posted:Market segmentation isn't inherently a bad thing. Be glad that Intel is letting 12900k buyers subsidize everyone else. I mean it's just part of maximizing profits, which at the end of the day is why they exist. To avoid blowing things out of perspective, even without unofficial oc support, the 12400 and 12100 are already incredible value, at least for gaming only users.
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Jan 21, 2022 19:31
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