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priznat posted:Also it’s pretty common for governments to give incentives to start up factories in places, as long as it is done intelligently (ie not like Foxconn in wisconsin). $52B is a great investment to bring fab capacity back. Republic of Korea's government is invested in Samsung's success at almost state-owned enterprise levels.
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Feb 6, 2022 22:36
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SourKraut posted:M2's design has probably been finalized for at least 12-18 months based on normal CPU architectural timelines.
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Feb 6, 2022 22:49
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canyoneer posted:Republic of Korea's government is invested in Samsung's success at almost state-owned enterprise levels. No doubt. A solid investment too! Samsung has really come a long way in doing their own chips in a short time.
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Feb 6, 2022 23:58
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mobby_6kl posted:The main advantage, which is more money for apple, is still there. Sure, Alder Lake is legitimately good at CPU-only compute throughput benchmarks. But that's the metric Alder Lake was designed to be good at, while M1 Pro/Max were not. You can look at specs and die photos to figure out what each company prioritized. For Intel, it was lots of CPU cores - most of the die is CPU. For Apple, it's GPU. M1 Pro's GPU is significantly larger than all its CPUs put together. M1 Max doubles the Pro's GPU size, and has a GPU-scale memory controller to match (512 bit wide LPDDR5, 400GB/s). The Max floorplan looks like a discrete GPU with some CPUs tacked on the side. If Apple wanted to make a M1 family chip to compete head to head with Alder Lake, they could do it. M1 "Firestorm" P cores have Golden Cove tier performance, but their area and power are more similar to Gracemont. A hypothetical M1 Alder Lake killer would just sacrifice half (or more) of the GPU in favor of bumping the P core count to 16. (Or more - if they wanted to really dunk on Intel's CPU throughput numbers, they could push it to at least 24 P cores without using more power than Intel.) But that's not what they built. For better or worse, Apple's pitch to developers is that heavy compute tasks should be ported to Metal Compute to unleash the GPU. Or if you need some standard thing like a FFT or big matrix multiply, don't code it yourself, call the appropriate Accelerate library function and get the Neural Engine or AMX accelerators into the picture. Apple provides a ton of different accelerators, and intends you to use them. For things which can't or won't (because cross platform code) be adapted to use them, they're just shrugging and living with it. They've still got enough CPU performance to do reasonably well. You say M1 is mostly about money, but it really isn't. These are not economy designs. Every M1 family chip has been much bigger than the x86 chip it replaced, and despite using the best (most expensive) TSMC process nodes, they build them as giant monolithic devices instead of breaking less important stuff out into a separate I/O die the way AMD does. The freedom to design SoCs like this is really what it's about. Apple was able to influence Intel's product design to some extent, but that only went so far - Intel always compromised with what PC OEMs like HP and Dell wanted. Intel management also generally suffers from x86 monopolist brain, so they've always been reluctant to focus on anything which isn't a x86 core. (Just look at how long it took them to make a serious push into discrete GPUs.) VorpalFish posted:Would be awesome if someone used 1250u UP4 config to make a legit fanless x86 alternative to the MacBook air. My prediction: it won't be nearly as good as the M1 Air outside of multithreaded throughput benchmarks, which is not really what you buy a fanless computer to do. The thing which is really unique about M1 is that desktop-class single thread performance costs about 5W per P core. Neither Golden Cove nor Gracemont can do that.
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Feb 7, 2022 01:22
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how much should i care about my 12700k hitting intermittent points of throttling in cinebench? 1-2 seconds a couple or so times per render in the 2nd half of the test. what are the real world implications of this? my cooling setup is an NH-D15 w/ A15 + F12. I couldn't fit both A15s due to my ram being too tall. my only guess at this point is that i did a bad job with the thermal paste. i did the 5 dot method that noctura recommended in their manual for the new alder lake chips.
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Feb 10, 2022 04:47
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Too Many Birds posted:how much should i care about my 12700k hitting intermittent points of throttling in cinebench? 1-2 seconds a couple or so times per render in the 2nd half of the test. what are the real world implications of this? Unless your "real world" use is to run Cinebench all the time, or spend a lot of the day doing large rendering projects...basically nothing. You could try repasting if you really wanted to, but if you're not noticing issues in actual real world (for you) usage, then who cares?
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Feb 10, 2022 04:55
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okay, just needed to see someone else say it i guess. i'll play some games and do my normal photo editing stuff and see what happens, i imagine i won't ever hit that 100c limit doing those.
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Feb 10, 2022 05:05
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The D15 is supposed to be able to handle the 12700K's 190W heat loads, but it's somewhat close to the edge of what it can effectively cool. With Alder Lake CPUs, I believe the thermal throttle point with that cooler is typically somewhere around the low 200 watt range. Environmental factors such as higher ambient temperature or bad case airflow can lower that figure. Thermal paste can also be an issue, but I wouldn't worry too much about that if you really put five dollops of the stuff on there. The cooler coldplate doesn't cover the entire processor actually, so you can try to peak under the heatsink with your phone camera or something and see if there's paste oozing out the sides—if there is, you're good. Inadequate mounting pressure can also result in slightly-too-high temperatures. You could try giving the screws an extra turn. But the most obvious factor is the one we already know: the fan. The NF-F12 is unlikely to be as good as the front fan the D15 ships with, so I would try finding a way to mount that instead. The D15 fan clips are designed such that you can mount the fans higher up on the cooler if necessary. Are you sure there's no way at all to mount it?
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Feb 10, 2022 05:38
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The D15 is supposed to be able to handle the 12700K's 190W heat loads, but it's somewhat close to the edge of what it can effectively cool. With Alder Lake CPUs, I believe the thermal throttle point with that cooler is typically somewhere around the low 200 watt range. Environmental factors such as higher ambient temperature or bad case airflow can lower that figure. Thermal paste can also be an issue, but I wouldn't worry too much about that if you really put five dollops of the stuff on there. The cooler coldplate doesn't cover the entire processor actually, so you can try to peak under the heatsink with your phone camera or something and see if there's paste oozing out the sides—if there is, you're good. Inadequate mounting pressure can also result in slightly-too-high temperatures. You could try giving the screws an extra turn. But the most obvious factor is the one we already know: the fan. The NF-F12 is unlikely to be as good as the front fan the D15 ships with, so I would try finding a way to mount that instead. The D15 fan clips are designed such that you can mount the fans higher up on the cooler if necessary. Are you sure there's no way at all to mount it? paste is oozing out the sides. and i might have gone too gingerly with screwing down the cooler. there is just no room for the front 140mm. if i got some low profile ram, which would save me 8mm, i might be able to fit it then. can't place it further up because of my case size, i probably should've gone for the mid-tower meshify vs. the compact, i really wasn't thinking when i mashed order on some of this stuff.
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Feb 10, 2022 06:22
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It's fine!
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Feb 10, 2022 06:26
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My concern would be whether it gets too loud, even if it’s not throttling
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Feb 10, 2022 06:27
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compared to my last build, this thing is a mouse even when it gets "Loud."
Too Many Birds fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 07:03
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Too Many Birds posted:compared to my last build, this thing is a mouse even when it gets "Loud." They make excellent products, and they know it - and they know that people will pay for it.
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Feb 10, 2022 13:13
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Honestly consider setting tau.to like 20 sec instead of infinite so it actually enforces the 125w PL1 limit. You'll probably lose less than 10% performance for an almost 35% reduction in power consumption which will make the thing way easier to cool.
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Feb 10, 2022 13:16
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Too Many Birds posted:how much should i care about my 12700k hitting intermittent points of throttling in cinebench? 1-2 seconds a couple or so times per render in the 2nd half of the test. what are the real world implications of this? Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The D15 is supposed to be able to handle the 12700K's 190W heat loads, but it's somewhat close to the edge of what it can effectively cool. With Alder Lake CPUs, I believe the thermal throttle point with that cooler is typically somewhere around the low 200 watt range. Environmental factors such as higher ambient temperature or bad case airflow can lower that figure. Thermal paste can also be an issue, but I wouldn't worry too much about that if you really put five dollops of the stuff on there. The cooler coldplate doesn't cover the entire processor actually, so you can try to peak under the heatsink with your phone camera or something and see if there's paste oozing out the sides—if there is, you're good. Inadequate mounting pressure can also result in slightly-too-high temperatures. You could try giving the screws an extra turn. But the most obvious factor is the one we already know: the fan. The NF-F12 is unlikely to be as good as the front fan the D15 ships with, so I would try finding a way to mount that instead. The D15 fan clips are designed such that you can mount the fans higher up on the cooler if necessary. Are you sure there's no way at all to mount it? if a non-oc'd 12700K is thermal throttling with a D15 under cinebench, something is installed wrong or your case airflow sucks balls. I have a D15S (single fan, slightly lesser cooling power) on a 12700K and can complete cinebench r23 without coming close to thermal throttling. max temp in the low 90s. XMP'd RAM in gear 1 and no power-saving stuff turned on, either.
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Feb 10, 2022 13:30
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Or their ambient temps are a few degrees higher. Low 90s is very close to the edge.
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Feb 10, 2022 14:20
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Too Many Birds posted:paste is oozing out the sides. and i might have gone too gingerly with screwing down the cooler. Mounting pressure is extremely important, you should be screwing it down as tight as you can with your hands (not with a wrench or electric screwdriver). A light mount could be causing your issues.
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Feb 10, 2022 14:41
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alright. i'll get back into the case today and see what i can do.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:23
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I reapplied the paste, tightened down the heat sink real good, and I am no longer throttling in Cinebench, but it did get close. I'll call that a victory. I think if I had a larger case, I could add the 2nd 140mm and I'm sure this wouldn't have been an issue from the start. At this point I can either add more fans to the case or I can learn how to undervolt I guess? I am completely clueless when it comes to this poo poo.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:43
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Too Many Birds posted:I reapplied the paste, tightened down the heat sink real good, and I am no longer throttling in Cinebench, but it did get close. I'll call that a victory. I think if I had a larger case, I could add the 2nd 140mm and I'm sure this wouldn't have been an issue from the start. if you really are brand new at this, I hate to say it but, make sure all the fans are blowing air in the appropriate direction
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Feb 10, 2022 23:54
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i was more referring to the processor side of things but helpful, thank you.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:56
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Too Many Birds posted:i was more referring to the processor side of things but helpful, thank you. roger that, not trying to offend. it's just not obvious when mounting a noctua. you can reverse an asymmetric D15S mount direction, reverse a fan, all that really easily. I had to make sure after I installed it that I didn't swap something on accident.
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Feb 11, 2022 00:04
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i did install the inner CPU fan wrong initially, fixed that the 2nd day after i built the PC  all the case fans came factory from fractal (two intake, one exhaust) and they all are pointed in the right direction. from the little research i've done into case fan configurations, the general rule is to have more intake then exhaust? 2 to 1, 3 to 2, etc? or is it a bit more complicated than that?
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Feb 11, 2022 00:17
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Too Many Birds posted:i did install the inner CPU fan wrong initially, fixed that the 2nd day after i built the PC The main reason for this is to create a positive pressure inside the case. This prevents air from entering the case at every tiny gap bringing dust inside the case through unfiltered entry points. Beyond that you just want to establish an air flow direction. For today's cases that's generally in from the front and/or bottom, and out through the back and/or top. There are other setups possible but those are the general ways to go that 90%+ of situations call for.
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Feb 11, 2022 07:22
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It's great! Stop fooling around with it! It'll never throttle in game if it's fine on cinebench!
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Feb 11, 2022 07:26
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LRADIKAL posted:It's great! Stop fooling around with it! It'll never throttle in game if it's fine on cinebench! i know i know, but i'm kind of having fun thinking about what could be improved, from a standpoint of having a good time and seeing numbers do things.
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Feb 11, 2022 09:54
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Too Many Birds posted:i know i know, but i'm kind of having fun thinking about what could be improved, from a standpoint of having a good time and seeing numbers do things. https://i.imgur.com/WKYkQo8.mp4 Sorry, couldn't help myself.
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Feb 12, 2022 04:56
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Too Many Birds posted:i know i know, but i'm kind of having fun thinking about what could be improved, from a standpoint of having a good time and seeing numbers do things. As long as you're aware that you're chasing tiny gains, that's cool with me. I do the same thing, I just try not to kid myself.
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Feb 16, 2022 17:41
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https://twitter.com/RealTimeKodi/status/1493783218285264896 be careful out there folks
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Feb 16, 2022 19:46
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a -80 mV undervolt on a mobile 11900H should be fine long term right? It's passed the various stress tests I've thrown at it so far.
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Feb 16, 2022 20:01
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An undervolt is not going to hurt anything long term. I supposed as the system normally degrades it might need more power later, but it won't be because of the undervolt.
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Feb 16, 2022 20:06
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priznat posted:https://twitter.com/RealTimeKodi/status/1493783218285264896 beautiful I want one of those now
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Feb 16, 2022 20:08
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so scammers want to talk to people who don't know what they're doing, that has been hypothesized as to why the terrible spelling email spam forward has persisted for so long. you don't wanna get smart people who know things about nigeria because it might ruin the scam, so you deliberately (or "deliberately") spell it terrible, include a bunch of weird errors, claim there is a monarchy in nigeria (i don't think there is) and stuff like that. it acts as a kind of clever person baffle; people who would never send money don't ever interact with obvious scams. people who would, do. that's what i thought of when i saw those CPU images
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Feb 16, 2022 23:07
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CoolCab posted:so scammers want to talk to people who don't know what they're doing, that has been hypothesized as to why the terrible spelling email spam forward has persisted for so long. you don't wanna get smart people who know things about nigeria because it might ruin the scam, so you deliberately (or "deliberately") spell it terrible, include a bunch of weird errors, claim there is a monarchy in nigeria (i don't think there is) and stuff like that. it acts as a kind of clever person baffle; people who would never send money don't ever interact with obvious scams. people who would, do. Look at the thumbnails or the category breadcrumbs 
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Feb 16, 2022 23:28
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Boat Stuck posted:a -80 mV undervolt on a mobile 11900H should be fine long term right? It's passed the various stress tests I've thrown at it so far. If anything, the undervolt will keep the chip healthier in the long term.
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Feb 16, 2022 23:29
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hey guys, computer knowledge lacker here. Like many people, I'm getting manic over Elden Rings specs, and compared my i7 to the minimum required cpu in it's system reqs. https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700-vs-Intel-Core-i5-8400/3887vs3939 Can someone explain to me why my cpu is technically worse but apparently much more expensive?
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Feb 17, 2022 01:43
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:hey guys, computer knowledge lacker here. Like many people, I'm getting manic over Elden Rings specs, and compared my i7 to the minimum required cpu in it's system reqs. You have a 4 core CPU, the game wants a 6 core CPU. Your i7-7700 is a generation older than the i5-8400.
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Feb 17, 2022 01:49
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I saw that, why is it more expensive? Whenever I upgrade my mobo and cpu I'm going to have to find someone to just tell me what to buy. e: How much would a reasonably decent mobo/cpu cost me? Nothing too insane, but I've recently upgraded my PSU and GPU and if it's not terribly expensive, might as well finish the job. Current Mobo is ASUS PRIME H270-PLUS (LGA1151). e: Will probably just post a rundown over in the PC parts thread later. Drunk Driver Dad fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Feb 17, 2022 |
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Feb 17, 2022 01:56
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:I saw that, why is it more expensive? Whenever I upgrade my mobo and cpu I'm going to have to find someone to just tell me what to buy. Used prices can be a bit weird but if I had to guess the price difference would be down to where they fall in the product stack for their generation. Both use socket 1151 but the boards are not compatible. So if you have a kaby lake motherboard and are looking to upgrade your CPU without replacing your motherboard, the 7700k or 7700 is as good as you're going to do. On the other hand if you're looking to do the same with a coffee lake board, you're probably looking to the 8700/8700k, not the 8400. Imo trying to hold on to either board in that situation is a fools errand imo, but I can kind of see why the 7700 is more "desirable" for the specific group locked in to considering that gen CPU. Right now the gaming value king if you want at least 6 cores is going to be the 12400 paired probably with a ddr4 b660 board somewhere in the $120-$140 range.
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Feb 17, 2022 03:02
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I saw a guy building a 11400F system, when the 12400F (and the B660 mobos) are right there with a massive +55% in CB23 MT score at the same price. mind loving blown
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Feb 17, 2022 16:12
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