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Grundulum posted:After Turok, how many Seanchan nobles die on-screen? Not enough.
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Sep 27, 2023 02:10
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After a second watch of episode six, I think Renna and Tuon will be combined. If they aren’t, they should be.
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Sep 27, 2023 04:11
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mkay0 posted:After a second watch of episode six, I think Renna and Tuon will be combined. If they aren’t, they should be. uhm. why? and why?
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Sep 27, 2023 04:17
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mkay0 posted:After a second watch of episode six, I think Renna and Tuon will be combined. If they aren’t, they should be.
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Sep 27, 2023 04:33
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Tuon isn't exactly a sympathetic character, she would be a million times more unlikable if we watched her torture Egwene. I would guess the show is going to go in the direction of slavery is absolutely unacceptable and Tuon comes to this very basic realization at some point. We didn't get it in the published books but I felt like that was in the timeline even if we can never know. The most positive defense of Tuon is that she lives in this culture, doesn't know better and as high ranking member she is unwilling to question it. And that's something everyone can understand. even if they hate it with the rage of a thousand suns going supernova. Mat's bride to be as a committed slaver who refuses to not be the worst person on earth seems unlikely for the show.
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Sep 27, 2023 04:38
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I don't care how wildly off base they have to go from the books but after the last episode, Renna is a character who's earned all sorts of really bad things happening to her on screen. Her and every sul'dam for that matter. gently caress 'em all.
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Sep 27, 2023 04:48
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Jedit posted:Yes. We find out about the Nine Moons even before Mat receives the prophecy. You might not know that it's a direct reference to the Empress, but if you've been paying attention you do know it's got something to do with the Seanchan. One of my friends who is currently on his first readthrough picked up on this right away in TSR. I was impressed.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:28
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Everything to do with the Seanchan just makes my blood boil and even more so that we will never get it resolved.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:54
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Goofballs posted:Tuon isn't exactly a sympathetic character, she would be a million times more unlikable if we watched her torture Egwene. I would guess the show is going to go in the direction of slavery is absolutely unacceptable and Tuon comes to this very basic realization at some point. We didn't get it in the published books but I felt like that was in the timeline even if we can never know. The most positive defense of Tuon is that she lives in this culture, doesn't know better and as high ranking member she is unwilling to question it. And that's something everyone can understand. even if they hate it with the rage of a thousand suns going supernova. Mat's bride to be as a committed slaver who refuses to not be the worst person on earth seems unlikely for the show. The only thing I can think of, which i'm not saying is the only way, but if Tuon is introduced as da'covale and is shipped over in that situation and then breaks/get broken free.
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Sep 27, 2023 06:06
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th3t00t posted:The US Census classifies people from every Northern African and Middle-eastern country as white. Are there minority racial groups that would be considered black in those countries? Certainly. But the majority are white. us census classifications are slightly updated from 18th century race science, who cares
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Sep 27, 2023 06:12
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Shageletic posted:Freed by an opposing army before evincing any independence. Again lacking agency and historical verisimilitude. In the real world we don't have magic collars that will torture you for even thinking of using something as a weapon. Pretty big difference, I think.
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Sep 27, 2023 08:02
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I didn’t see sadism out of Renna in those scenes, I saw someone very frustrated about the process and reticent to be needlessly cruel. She lets Egwene keep her name. She’s pretty pragmatic about the process and wasn’t getting pleasure out of hurting her. I guess I just really liked the actor and want them back for a longer arc. Combining her character with Tuon also creates interesting conflict between two main characters who don’t have a ton, Mat and Egwene.
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Sep 27, 2023 12:41
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mkay0 posted:I didn’t see sadism out of Renna in those scenes, I saw someone very frustrated about the process and reticent to be needlessly cruel. She kicked the poo poo out of Egwene for not falling for her "lets channel together" trick.
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Sep 27, 2023 14:18
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mkay0 posted:I didn’t see sadism out of Renna in those scenes, I saw someone very frustrated about the process and reticent to be needlessly cruel. She lets Egwene keep her name. She’s pretty pragmatic about the process and wasn’t getting pleasure out of hurting her. I guess I just really liked the actor and want them back for a longer arc. This is 100% a bit
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Sep 27, 2023 14:31
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mkay0 posted:I didn’t see sadism out of Renna in those scenes, I saw someone very frustrated about the process and reticent to be needlessly cruel. She lets Egwene keep her name. She’s pretty pragmatic about the process and wasn’t getting pleasure out of hurting her. I guess I just really liked the actor and want them back for a longer arc. Posted this before but I see it as illustration of the corruption of morality of the slaveholder caused by slavery, even a “kindly” slaveowner with “good intentions” ultimately can’t escape doing wrong because the entire institution is inherently so evil. She may not actively get pleasure from hurting others but she does it anyway because that’s what the institution pushes her to do.
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Sep 27, 2023 14:34
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Skyl3lazer posted:This is 100% a bit It's WoT posting, the dumbest posts can not be assumed to be a bit.
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Sep 27, 2023 14:37
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Guys, I think Renna might be a bad person. 
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Sep 27, 2023 15:08
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I guess I never saw the Sul’dam as having as much autonomy as other people itt. They all have potential to channel, right? They need to become successful slavers or risk becoming a slave themselves. These aren’t the plantation owners. I always took this dynamic as house slave vs field slave.
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Sep 27, 2023 15:10
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mkay0 posted:I guess I never saw the Sul’dam as having as much autonomy as other people itt. They all have potential to channel, right? They need to become successful slavers or risk becoming a slave themselves. No one in Seanchan knows that suldam have that potential. It seems more like a profession — iirc Tuon says at one point she likes to mess around sometimes and wear the bracelet. More like a racehorse trainer or houndmaster .
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Sep 27, 2023 15:14
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If you test to be a sul'dam are you required to be a sul'dam or is it a voluntary profession? I always assumed they had to be unless they had a more important position superseding it like Tuon.
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Sep 27, 2023 15:43
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Colonel Cool posted:If you test to be a sul'dam are you required to be a sul'dam or is it a voluntary profession? I always assumed they had to be unless they had a more important position superseding it like Tuon. Yeah I did too, although there are more sul'dam than there are damane so maybe it's just over saturated because of prestige that comes from the position
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Sep 27, 2023 15:46
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Devorum posted:In the real world we don't have magic collars that will torture you for even thinking of using something as a weapon. Putting aside that the conversation also included non damane slaves, this mechanism was written by an author, and an author who has already done a great job inputting real world influenced dynamics and philosophies into magic mechanisms, from Buddhist principles to real world historical instances of wise women and healers. Like I said originally and also echoed by others in this thread, the story of the Seanchan suffered from a lot of things. And for me this was one of them. Slaves always rebel, and I would have liked to see more of that. Prob the most thrilling moment in the Matt PoV's of the last few books for me is the Sea Folk escaping (even tho it was engendered by Mat). More of that would have been great, and maybe make the Seanchan plotline not feel so...unfinished.
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Sep 27, 2023 15:55
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mkay0 posted:These aren’t the plantation owners. I always took this dynamic as house slave vs field slave. They aren't slaves, no one owns Sul'Dam. No Sul'dam wants to be anything except a sul'dam though because nothing can replace the joy they feel in being "complete"
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Sep 27, 2023 15:55
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Colonel Cool posted:If you test to be a sul'dam are you required to be a sul'dam or is it a voluntary profession? I always assumed they had to be unless they had a more important position superseding it like Tuon. I think most opted to pursue it as a profession because it was prestigious, but it wasn't really at all compulsory because there's always far more sul'dam than damane. Damane were precious, sul'dam was just another (glorified) animal handler. That's literally the position they occupy in the seanchan army. E: oh right as noted because of the way the A'dam works any of them who get trained end up hooked on saidar like any other channeler. So pretty much it's just a job, but after you've been on the job a while you start getting hooked up with more and better drugs. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 15:58
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CainFortea posted:They aren't slaves, no one owns Sul'Dam. Canonically, the empress owns the entirety of seanchan, from her children all the way down to the various “free” people who swear to serve. I think it’s tuon that explains how the throne owns it all in a very formalized fashion, but in a very fundamental way the empire has one ruler and everyone else is property. This helps explain why of the various seanchan it’s only the blood, ie the few with aspirations of becoming empress/emperor have any sense of autonomy as a result of their training to maybe one day rule the empire. The rest don’t even really have a framework to understand the randland ideas of free will. In one of the later books, one of the gardeners comments on it as well, iirc. Never excuse the seanchan, they’re terrible. Hopefully this highlights if the sul’dam/damane thing was sorted out and they were all merely citizens of the empire that things would still be very very far from fine. Anias fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 16:12
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My understanding was that the Deathwatch were da'covale, but not everyone is (and the Ogier Gardeners are specifically called out as not da'covale). Furede even mentions how proud he is about it and how he has extra status.
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Sep 27, 2023 16:19
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The Seanchan feel incomplete because we are only seeing part of them: the invading army sent to conquer Randland. Presumably picked from the best and most reliable of the troops and generals available, they're still riven with infighting and bureaucracy (plus Suroth being a darkfriend). Inter-Seanchan tensions are also probably downplayed because they're strangers in a strange land. The Seanchan are pretty terrible even if RJ tries to both sides it by showing that they make the trains run on time. The Damane system is probably larger and more effective than the White Tower just because the White Tower refuses to effectively recruit. The Southern Kingdoms that they topple in their invasion are probably some of the weakest on the continent (Tarabon has a civil war, Amadicia is already beaten down by the Whitecloaks, Altara is a country in name only, Almoth isn't really a country etc etc).
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Sep 27, 2023 16:44
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Morrow posted:The Seanchan feel incomplete because we are only seeing part of them: the invading army sent to conquer Randland. Presumably picked from the best and most reliable of the troops and generals available, they're still riven with infighting and bureaucracy (plus Suroth being a darkfriend). Inter-Seanchan tensions are also probably downplayed because they're strangers in a strange land. I don't think RJ was trying to both-sides it. I think he was showing how tempting fascism can be on the surface, as long as you, personally, aren't being actively persecuted. It highlighted the mundanity of everyday evil and how pervasive it can be. Same with the romanticizing of the Hawkwing era. Sure, he ruled with an iron fist...but crime was down!
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Sep 27, 2023 16:51
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Devorum posted:I don't think RJ was trying to both-sides it. I think he was showing how tempting fascism can be on the surface, as long as you, personally, aren't being actively persecuted. It highlighted the mundanity of everyday evil and how pervasive it can be. Not only this, but also just as an example of how hosed up randland in specific was from the combination of proximity to the Blight and Ishamael's post breaking actions- The trolloc wars and the hundred years war both pushed a civilization on the edge well past the brink and in to decline. It's a huge standout point that the societies from other parts of the world aren't really in the same state of "humanity is in retreat." RJ was never unambiguous about anything that removed personal agency being bad, the seanchan not getting their own just deserts isn't down to any both-sides-ing, it's just, literally, "this was gonna be my next arc but oops gently caress disease" Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 16:55
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I'm not sure what we saw of the non randland civilisations were much better.
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Sep 27, 2023 16:59
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Started New Spring, and man it's slow going near a hundred pages in. Understandable bc we're dealing with Moiraine and Siuan's time as Accepted but after the speeding sense of events in KoD and even the last bits of CoL, it definitely is taking some work to get thru. The pace of reading definitely has shown down. It is kinda funny seeing a bunch of Aes Sedai in the main books pop up as Accepted tho.
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Sep 27, 2023 17:05
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WoT Wednesday is back with a clip from next episode https://youtu.be/k8sHfuf93vY?si=qpSC7IveXdkVAf0H Also https://twitter.com/TheWheelOfTime/status/1707062543754109266
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Sep 27, 2023 17:24
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Is that a flicker? 
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Sep 27, 2023 17:28
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I think it is
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Sep 27, 2023 17:30
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Was wondering why Natti Cauthon was listed on IMDB for episode 7. Welp, so far they've shown Mat lose an eye twice in various nightmares/visions and being hung once.  My bet is Moiraine fast travels to the aiel waste, there's no reason for her to go to Falme, then the maidens will bring Rand and Eggy there after the climax and something about the waste will be the hook for season 3.
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Sep 27, 2023 17:42
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Anias posted:Canonically, the empress owns the entirety of seanchan, from her children all the way down to the various “free” people who swear to serve. I think it’s tuon that explains how the throne owns it all in a very formalized fashion, but in a very fundamental way the empire has one ruler and everyone else is property. This helps explain why of the various seanchan it’s only the blood, ie the few with aspirations of becoming empress/emperor have any sense of autonomy as a result of their training to maybe one day rule the empire. The rest don’t even really have a framework to understand the randland ideas of free will. In one of the later books, one of the gardeners comments on it as well, iirc. Da'Covale and Damane are specifically called out as property. Everyone else just swears to obey.
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Sep 27, 2023 17:43
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Ardlen posted:My understanding was that the Deathwatch were da'covale, but not everyone is (and the Ogier Gardeners are specifically called out as not da'covale). Furede even mentions how proud he is about it and how he has extra status. You mean Furyk Karede. But yeah, the Gardeners are not da'covale and as I recall they're also the only servants of the Empress who are permitted to refuse her call, if they need to avoid the Longing.
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Sep 27, 2023 18:19
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CainFortea posted:Da'Covale and Damane are specifically called out as property. Everyone else just swears to obey. Though it is understandable that the daughter of the Empress would still explain it as "Yeah, the throne owns literally everything, we just let most people do their thing out of our good graces."
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Sep 27, 2023 18:20
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Jedit posted:You mean Furyk Karede. But yeah, the Gardeners are not da'covale and as I recall they're also the only servants of the Empress who are permitted to refuse her call, if they need to avoid the Longing.
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Sep 27, 2023 18:28
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 21:34 |
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Lots of Rafe Q&A this morning on Twitter…with some nuggets of interest https://twitter.com/rafejudkins/status/1706945931961122872?s=20
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Sep 27, 2023 18:30
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