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Avalerion posted:How come overwatch is printing them money if it does pretty much all the stuff hots does in regards to its monetization? Consoles and it's in a niche that is not fully-saturated (team/class based shootyfolks)
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Jan 8, 2019 16:52
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also much better advertising ask a random person on the street what Heroes of the Storm is; I bet you'd have to go through at least 20 people before you met anyone who had even heard of it
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Jan 8, 2019 17:14
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Avalerion posted:How come overwatch is printing them money if it does pretty much all the stuff hots does in regards to its monetization? Anime waifus, OP
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Jan 8, 2019 17:32
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Overwatch has an upfront cost but that lets you play all the heroes. Wheras HotS doesn't and the model for buying them is insanely complicated.
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Jan 8, 2019 17:37
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Moola posted:also much better advertising I bet it would be way more than that lol
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Jan 8, 2019 17:37
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hots being a latecomer to the moba party and having insanely bad monetization are both separate problems and both contributed to its current state. I dunno if you can really pick them apart and say one is worse.
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Jan 8, 2019 17:46
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There's also all the stuff that turned off the more serious crowd, ranked was and is a complete shitshow and they never seemed to know how to fix it.
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Jan 8, 2019 17:49
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Eraflure posted:Anime waifus, OP No but like real talk this is a huge part of it I imagine. HOTS is relying on hardcore Blizzard fans already, I mean the entire point of the game is playing characters from all of Blizzard's history (with some weird stuff where they made up new WoW characters). If you aren't a fan of WoW, Diablo, or Starcraft in the first place, there's not really a draw to HOTS for new players. Its characters are memorable to Blizzard fans and no one else. Overwatch on the other hand created a whole new universe with a whole new crew of characters, and they're good likeable characters, like incredibly intentionally designed to be appealing to a huge audience. And it works! It gets a ton of new people into the game because they see these characters and they will inevitably pick a favorite right away. People are also super horny for every character, including the giant gorilla and the hamster. If a new player looks at the characters in HOTS they're gonna see a bunch of characters that they'll feel they need to have the background of already. It's not as inviting. Their character design is top notch, I'm sure some will disagree and say how boring some of the characters are, but I think they all each have unique distinct looks and silhouettes that shows how much work they have put into the character designs. Tracer isn't my favorite character in OW by any stretch, and I can't play her for poo poo, but her character design is amazing and is a perfect poster girl for the game. I think Sombra is one of Blizzard's best character designs they've ever done in any of their games. People love the OW characters. People do not love the HOTS characters. That's what the biggest thing to me is that separates OW from HOTS That's all besides the fact that an FPS is just gonna be way more accessible than a moba. edit: Also the competitive versions of Overwatch is way more accessible than HOTS is. The draft is too intimidating in a way that simply picking around other players in Overwatch isn't.
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Jan 8, 2019 18:41
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Macaluso posted:I think Sombra is one of Blizzard's best character designs they've ever done in any of their games. People love the OW characters. People do not love the HOTS characters. Murky is better than every OW hero and we all know it.
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Jan 8, 2019 19:17
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Shabadu posted:Murky is better than every OW hero and we all know it. Murky owns, but the general public just sees a fish boy. You have to really hold the fish in your hands to appreciate it
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Jan 8, 2019 19:23
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Add Murky to OW.
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Jan 8, 2019 19:48
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Murky’s genius is in his role, not his physical character design. Murky, much like groove? Is in the heart.
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Jan 8, 2019 19:52
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Bogart posted:Murky’s genius is in his role, not his physical character design. Murky, much like groove? Is in the heart. And about as fun to have in your game as a blocked artery, too.
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Jan 8, 2019 19:57
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Would be pretty cool to add a ~100 hp character to Overwatch who's ult is to place a respawn point and who's trait is that they respawn after 3 seconds. Give them a mercy gun or whatever for a weapon and the ability to go invulnerable for 2 seconds every 8 or something.
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Jan 8, 2019 20:02
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Mind over Matter posted:And about as fun to have in your game as a blocked artery, too. shout out to all my murky haters in 2019 still luv u even tho u jealouss
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Jan 8, 2019 20:13
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I could admit that I just think Murky is poorly designed for a team game these days, and tell you that I actually hate Varian a hell of a lot more than any other hero. But that would ruin this bit I've been doing for what, three years now?
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Jan 8, 2019 20:39
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I think Murky is probably the best designed hero in the game in terms of dead talents, poo poo I’d never take. All I can think of is Fish Eye but that’s just personal preference to not clue in the hypothetical smart opposing team where the egg is.
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Jan 8, 2019 20:59
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Avalerion posted:How come overwatch is printing them money if it does pretty much all the stuff hots does in regards to its monetization? You can play every hero once you own the game. It probably has a more lovely skin game since you can't buy skins at all, you can only get them in boxes, or buy them with gold that you only get in boxes, and it is also very guilty of "why aren't there more color variants, seriously just loving recolor something", but one price = all heroes is hard to beat. Additionally, it is competing one 3 platforms, not just PC, and it isn't a moba, so it never really had direct competition outside of TF2 which was already drying up by the time Overwatch dropped and didn't really play on console anyway. And lastly, Overwatch was ridiculously heavily marketed. Trailers played on TV and before movies in theaters. Bus and train ads. Etc. But the no direct competition, and an inviting art style, combined with being a console game and not gating actual content beyond a basic purchase are your answers. For HotS, I really don't think there is anything they can do at this point because I believe they have already burned their market, and gamers are not really open minded or nuanced enough to give something like HotS another chance if they did make significant changes like the ones Kith posted. I almost completely agree with Kith on all his suggestions, though I would consider just flat out making heroes free period, or allowing for a flat rate purchase of all heroes current and future. The focus really should be on vanity items, as this game has more opportunity for those since in addition to skins, it also has mounts and announcers.
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Jan 8, 2019 21:21
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One thing I do hate about the recolors of skins is when you open up a legendary and it's not the tint that you want.... and/or possibly a repeat copy of it. And just adding more recolors just makes you more likely to open up "not the one that you want". Didn't Riot have something with Chroma skins where buying the Chroma skin lets you pick any of the tints for the skin it's for?
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Jan 8, 2019 21:43
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Yukari posted:One thing I do hate about the recolors of skins is when you open up a legendary and it's not the tint that you want.... and/or possibly a repeat copy of it. And just adding more recolors just makes you more likely to open up "not the one that you want". Didn't Riot have something with Chroma skins where buying the Chroma skin lets you pick any of the tints for the skin it's for? Chroma was derived from the original HOTS skin system where each skin had a base version and two different variants. I think rolling back Legendaries only to the multi-variant approach would be interesting, if extremely unlikely.
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Jan 8, 2019 21:49
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They really should have really revised and nailed down what counted as Legendary too. It was absolutely thrilling to get a legendary and its just a slightly different colored normal horse
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Jan 8, 2019 22:29
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Orthodox Rabbit posted:They really should have really revised and nailed down what counted as Legendary too. It was absolutely thrilling to get a legendary and its just a slightly different colored normal horse Didn't Riot also do exactly that, in also dropping the prices of a bunch of their skins because they were kinda not to the same level of difference as other skins at the same price point?
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Jan 8, 2019 22:34
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After a few days of really diving into LoL, the only thing I can honestly say I am not a fan of in terms of monetization is rune pages. I think that is scummy considering you can make, save/import item lists at will for free. Charging money for the convenience of being able to save more than a couple of rune builds is absolutely loving terrible, unless you happen to be a one trick or only play character/builds that generally use the same 1 or 2 builds I guess. Otherwise you are going to have to be swapping runes constantly before matches, which means either memorizing rune builds or having a page up (or installing some weird 3rd party program that does everything for you... no thanks.) I do like that LoL seems to throw free characters at you early on. Playing a draft mode game will get me my 9th free character so far, and I have made enough essence, and gotten champ shards for a few more characters, assuming I go for the cheaper ones. I imagine that by the time you get to lvl 15, you probably have like 15 heroes without needing to spend real money.
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Jan 8, 2019 22:46
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Until maybe last year?? Runes were thing you bought with in game currency and you had to slot like 12 of them into each page. If I remember right you couldn't adjust them during draft either. So having to buy extra rune pages was pretty important. It was also garbage because the runes were expensive and newer players would need to decide between buying heroes or runes.
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Jan 8, 2019 22:51
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poo poo, runes are free now? That's wild. I remember when people complained in droves and Riot was just like "too bad, play game anyways".
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Jan 8, 2019 22:57
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it's a shame i can never go back to lol thanks to them ruining my two favorite heroes.
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Jan 8, 2019 22:59
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Orthodox Rabbit posted:Until maybe last year?? Runes were thing you bought with in game currency and you had to slot like 12 of them into each page. If I remember right you couldn't adjust them during draft either. So having to buy extra rune pages was pretty important. It was also garbage because the runes were expensive and newer players would need to decide between buying heroes or runes. Runes are free, and you can adjust them during draft, but you can only save 2 custom presets for free. You can buy additional "pages" which just let you save more custom presets, which is really silly, considering item presets are completely free and those are way more complicated. ToastyPotato fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 23:03
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's a shame i can never go back to lol thanks to them ruining my two favorite heroes. I quit after they ruined my Pax Jax and removed dodge. So loving dumb
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Jan 8, 2019 23:33
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Kith posted:You need money to pay people to develop new stuff and fix bugs and do balance math and to organize and run an esports league and a whole bunch of other things that MOBAs require to be "successful". As it turns out, the #1 income source for MOBAs are skins. So yes, it kinda did. Thank you for explaining how money works. HOTS was a shallow MOBA released very late in a saturated genre. More skins wouldn't have saved it. beejay posted:Seems like some disconnect I preferred buying skins directly. You caught me!
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Jan 8, 2019 23:48
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"Making more money wouldn't have saved this game, a game that is dying after it's developer failed to make enough money to please shareholders."
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Jan 8, 2019 23:50
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Bogart posted:I think Murky is probably the best designed hero in the game in terms of dead talents, poo poo I’d never take. All I can think of is Fish Eye but that’s just personal preference to not clue in the hypothetical smart opposing team where the egg is. Personally, I'd say Living the Dream is probably the most marginal of his level 4 talents since the other two boost his other basic abilities more (though it does boost the march ult), and I don't usually use "And a Shark" at 20 when going Octograb, since I usually like using Big Tuna Kahuna instead to better survive an octograb during a team fight. Maybe Eggshell at 13 too, since the shield can get burned off on pointless things, while the Rejuvenating Bubble can also keep you alive in those same circumstances. But otherwise I agree that Murky has a lot of good talents that can be tailored to different situations. Varian and Thrall are also pretty up there in terms of solid talent trees.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:29
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Toady posted:Thank you for explaining how money works. HOTS was a shallow MOBA released very late in a saturated genre. More skins wouldn't have saved it. I apparently didn't do a very good job of explaining if you're not understanding the very basic concept of "you need to sell things to make a profit and you need profits to fund development". Also it's pretty loving dumb to dismiss HOTS just because it wasn't the biggest kid on the block when it pulled significant viewership on Twitch and still has a pretty sizable playerbase even after the exodus.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:33
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I love going full slime build with him, it's just so much fun hammering his slime button over and over on players that I'm chasing. They think they can outlive the slime. They cannot out live the slime. Again Murky is cool because there aren't really many outright wrong choices you can take for him, all of them can work.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:34
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plus you can slap someone with a loving shark after riding in on a shark new game: murkys of the storm Nybble fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 01:44
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Big Tuna Kahuna + Eggshell = 6400 HP murloc charging at people, where people try to gib you because 'murky has like 400 hp right' It's a pick of mine in QM where there's no tank. Because I AM the tank.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:03
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Yes, they didn't sell enough skins. The reason people didn't buy enough skins is because quote:HOTS was a shallow MOBA released very late in a saturated genre. Eraflure fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 13:43
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Except that you can’t buy skins.
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Jan 9, 2019 14:45
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Oh. Welp guess Overwatch is hosed too then
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Jan 9, 2019 14:50
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I can never decide whether Murlocs are fish or closer to amphibians or whether they are both. Plus lizard eggs. It's the WoW equivalent to the platypus, I suppose. Beautiful fish frog deserved a better more successful game than HOTS.
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Jan 9, 2019 16:19
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ToastyPotato posted:"Making more money wouldn't have saved this game, a game that is dying after it's developer failed to make enough money to please shareholders." It's bizarre to think the game would have succeeded if Blizzard made more skins, as if that would have solved the game's fundamental issues. Skins don't matter if there aren't enough players to buy them. Kith posted:I apparently didn't do a very good job of explaining if you're not understanding the very basic concept of "you need to sell things to make a profit and you need profits to fund development". It never had significant long-term viewership. Grubby, one of the most well-known HOTS streamers, got more viewers playing Warcraft 3. Again with this crazy fantasy that HOTS would have succeeded if it had more skins. It came out late in a saturated genre where players were already invested in other well-established MOBAs. The client sucks, and several long-expected features were added late. Heroes aren't free, so building a roster is a non-trivial time investment. On top of it all, the gameplay is shallow, made more so with each update. HOTS always came off as an unfinished, half-hearted cash-in that targeted fans who buy Blizzard novels and write fanfic hero designs in forum posts. Now fans are in an uproar that Activision is pressuring Blizzard to stop wasting money and put out successful games, but it sound to me as though a streamlining of the company would be a good thing. They've been floundering for over a decade, starting and restarting projects for years only to release incomplete disappointments. Wasting resources on a limping MOBA-lite as a love-letter to more successful games is the last thing they should be doing. Toady fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 20:21
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