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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. I think Dragonriders of Pern is basically this, but I'm not sure if they're any good. I only read one, and it was during my extremely questionable-teenager-taste phase.
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Apr 12, 2018 20:37
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nopantsjack posted:Any good sci-fi horror books come to anyone's mind? Ive read Blindsight and Ship of Fools and I'm working my way through PKD and the Strugatsky bros works. https://twitter.com/bnscifi/status/984506044167655424?s=21 Lot of good suggestions in this list
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Apr 12, 2018 20:42
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General Battuta posted:So what is Wool about anyway, all I know is post-apocalypse and silos full of people. Basically, the silos are Ark bunkers full of generations of survivors who live a very regimented life and only know that the world outside is absolutely hostile to life. The powers that be have a lot more information and have a bunch of social engineering manuals to keep society stagnant, stable, and under control. This, of course, doesn’t work, thus the books.
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Apr 12, 2018 20:46
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Arcsech posted:I think Dragonriders of Pern is basically this, but I'm not sure if they're any good. I only read one, and it was during my extremely questionable-teenager-taste phase. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo don't condemn someone to reading these - they're bad, they're at best decent but oh man are they bad. Actual good science-fantasies: CS Friedman's Cold Fire trilogy is good, 40k in Gehenna by CJ Cherry is a genre-blender where it starts sci-fi, goes fantasy, stays fantasy, then slowly goes sci-fi again.
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Apr 12, 2018 20:50
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navyjack posted:https://twitter.com/bnscifi/status/984506044167655424?s=21 There are a lot of good books on that list, but it should be said some of them are definitely not horror (at least in the traditional genre sense) in any way. Aurora is about as far from horror as you can get, even if there's a lot of existentially troubling things going on throughout.
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Apr 12, 2018 21:04
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. Did you read the rest of Book of the New Sun? They get progressively more sci-fi as it goes on; Urth of the New Sun is pretty much straight sci-fi. M John Harrison's Viriconium books fit the bill as well. Post-dying earth civilization and such.
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Apr 12, 2018 21:08
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. Zelazny's Lord of Light is set on a far-future colony planet where the crew of the original colony ship have been using advanced technology, psychic powers, and Hindu philosophy & religion to set themselves up as incarnate "Gods" of the planet; one of the original crew rebels and sets himself up as "Buddha" in an attempt to destabilize and rebel against the regime.
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Apr 12, 2018 21:12
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. Abercrombie's Shattered Sea series fits the bill.
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Apr 12, 2018 21:17
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. The Vagrant by Peter Newman
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Apr 12, 2018 21:19
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. The Prince of Thorn books and Ring of Osheim books by Mark Lawrence are in a future where magic is real because the Large Hadron Collider did a thing or something.
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Apr 12, 2018 21:36
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nopantsjack posted:Any good sci-fi horror books come to anyone's mind? Ive read Blindsight and Ship of Fools and I'm working my way through PKD and the Strugatsky bros works. Faith of our Fathers and Ubik are PKD's best horror works. If you liked Blindsight, you'd probably also like Permutation City by Greg Egan, which does with math what Watts does with biology.
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Apr 12, 2018 21:48
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On PKD, his short story Upon The Dull Earth is my favorite horror-ish it he wrote
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Apr 12, 2018 21:49
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StrixNebulosa posted:Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo don't condemn someone to reading these - they're bad, they're at best decent but oh man are they bad. I'd say avoid Shannara and Pern, yeah. Speaking of Cherryh, there's also her early Morgaine series of books (Gate of Ivrel, et al) which are also decent science fantasy.
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Apr 12, 2018 23:16
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Am I blind, or is the original English version of Ubik not available on US Amazon? Edit: I'm not exactly blind, apparently. The paperback version is on Amazon, but not the Kindle version. It defaults to the Romansh translation. Weird. MockingQuantum fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 01:37
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Thanks for the suggestions, everyone -- looks like I got a lot of reading to do. I didn't finish Book of the New Sun, despite enjoying Shadow of the Torturer, but I read that so long ago that I think I'll have to start from the beginning to get back into it. I feel like it'll be worth the read, though.
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Apr 13, 2018 02:18
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Children of Time trip report. A cool book about spiders. I wish it could have been only or mainly about the spiders, but the quite satisfying conclusion wouldn't have happened without the other parts. The human poo poo was just never going to be able to hold a candle to watching spiders come up with modes of communication, travel, politics, weaponry, computers... I can recommend it pretty easily. I really got the sense that Tchaikovsky just loved coming up with all the spider stuff cause it was all very fun and believable.
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Apr 13, 2018 03:49
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apophenium posted:Children of Time trip report. A cool book about spiders. I wish it could have been only or mainly about the spiders, but the quite satisfying conclusion wouldn't have happened without the other parts. The human poo poo was just never going to be able to hold a candle to watching spiders come up with modes of communication, travel, politics, weaponry, computers... I can recommend it pretty easily. I really got the sense that Tchaikovsky just loved coming up with all the spider stuff cause it was all very fun and believable. Yeah it was hard not to give away big spoilers earlier in the thread when you and others were talking about the shortcomings of the humans storyline. It isn't as interesting or as strong as the spider storyline but it's kind of a critical foil to the spider's whole arc. And sort of couldn't happen very differently for it to work
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Apr 13, 2018 04:33
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. Obernewtyn Chronicles are YA and more on the fantasy side. Neal Stephenson's Anathem is more on the science side and civilisation is pretty well recovered from the long distant apocalypse.
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Apr 13, 2018 04:52
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. How about some fantasy with science in it ? CJ Cherryh did a shared worlds series called The Sword of Knowledge. It shares a theme of preservation of knowledge and a culture of understanding with A Canticle For Liebowietz. The first book is the best of the bunch; Leslie Fish's A Dirge For Sabis. It follows the... entourage of the engineers or scientist trying to develop the very first field cannon in time to save their city from barbarian hordes. They Fail.The rest of the book is how they set up a long journey away and keep at the whole enlightenment thing,. the next two books are more like fleshed-out outlines done by CJ Cherryh than real books intended as sequels or members of the same series as A Dirge For Sabis. Dirge for Sabis was a nifty little novel. The fact that I used to play Car Wars with the author has nothing to do with my recommendation. It's kind of 1632 or any other thousand points of light series. e. That list of unlucky voyages ? 100% read Gateway. Stop on the series when it gets too goofy for you, but follow Robin Broadhead's story through at least Gateway. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 07:31
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General Battuta posted:So what is Wool about anyway, all I know is post-apocalypse and silos full of people. More or less accurate summary in a nutshell. Also oppressive internal politics and overly elaborate deceptions used to control the population for their own good. People in the silos haven't been in there long enough to have lost all their technical knowledge but the knowledge itself is very "siloed" into internal cliques and this is deliberately exacerbated by the leadership clique to hide the fact that everyone is doomed because the Earth isn't recovering. It got way more hype than it deserved (not an uncommon thing of course) and part of that was for Howey being a huge "self-pub success," though there's a fair amount of evidence he used sock puppets/hired help to buff his review scores. Since this was back in the wild, innocent days of Amazon not even pretending to give a poo poo about manipulation of their systems, it worked for him and pushed him up the rankings and people said "hey, some of these self-published e-books aren't completely awful, who knew" and so on. The story itself is serviceable. I never read any of the followups.
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Apr 13, 2018 11:00
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occamsnailfile posted:I never read any of the followups. They weren't great.
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Apr 13, 2018 15:43
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. This stuff is ridiculously common. The Wheel of Time is explicitly set in a future Earth. Gemmell's Drenai novels have an advanced technological past and all our world's major ethnic groups apart from possibly subcontinental Asians. Fred Saberhagen did it twice in the Berserker series.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:50
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. quote:Some seventeen notable empires rose in the Middle Period of Earth. These were the Afternoon Cultures. All but one are unimportant to this narrative, and there is little need to speak of them save to say that none of them lasted for less than a millennium, none for more than ten; that each extracted such secrets and obtained such comforts as its nature (and the nature of the universe) enabled it to find; and that each fell back from the universe in confusion, dwindled, and died.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:02
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Appoda posted:I haven't followed the thread in a while, but does anyone have recs for science fantasy? Specifically in instances where the 'fantasy' part is more about a pre-modern civilization coming out of a distant apocalypse where the world was 'futuristic', so to speak. Vonda N. McIntyre wrote a book like that. It's pretty good. I picked it up a while back after Ursula K. LeGuin gave it a good review. It's about a healer wandering between tribes in the wastes who uses genetically-engineered snakes as part of her shamanic practice. http://bookviewcafe.com/bookstore/book/dreamsnake/
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Apr 13, 2018 17:16
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Since andrew smash didn't actually tell you... that quote is the opening to M. John Harrison's Viriconium, which is more or less what you want.
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Apr 13, 2018 19:04
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Just got this in the mail! The Divine Cities was a fave of mine and I'm really hyped to see if this stands up
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Apr 13, 2018 19:09
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Space Opera by Cat Valente released a couple days ago; I'm about halfway through but it's a lot of fun so far, kind of reminds me of the Hitchiker's in the sense of "look, space is really wacky" but it's a lot cleverer about it.
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Apr 13, 2018 19:39
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Kalman posted:Since andrew smash didn't actually tell you... that quote is the opening to M. John Harrison's Viriconium, which is more or less what you want. If you’re gonna be like that, it’s the opening to The Pastel City, which is the first of Harrison’s Viriconium stories, none of which are named Viriconium.
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Apr 13, 2018 20:17
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Stuporstar posted:Vonda N. McIntyre wrote a book like that. It's pretty good. I picked it up a while back after Ursula K. LeGuin gave it a good review. It's about a healer wandering between tribes in the wastes who uses genetically-engineered snakes as part of her shamanic practice. http://bookviewcafe.com/bookstore/book/dreamsnake/ Just seconding Dreamsnake as a great book. McIntyre hasn't let me down so far though I've been super slow about getting through her catalog. Also Nancy Kress's An Alien Light is one of her earlier books and it's about a human remnant population that's descended to barbarism but also about aliens trying to study and understand humans in a controlled environment because they're massively losing an interstellar war with the main human population elsewhere.
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Apr 13, 2018 20:21
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anilEhilated posted:Space Opera by Cat Valente released a couple days ago; I'm about halfway through but it's a lot of fun so far, kind of reminds me of the Hitchiker's in the sense of "look, space is really wacky" but it's a lot cleverer about it. I just started this yesterday, and there's definitely a Hitchhiker-y vibe, but it's very much the first one where it feels fresh and not the latter ones where you get tired of it.
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Apr 13, 2018 21:56
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Finished James Cambias's Corsair because I checked it out of the library at the same time as the Darkling Sea. Corsair was bad bad, Cambias's writing style feels really similar to Christopher Moore, only more computery and science fictiony. The comparison to Christopher Moore was not a compliment. Dude doing the hugo awards read through: I finally found & read the short short "Weapon Shops" by AE Van Vogt that was expanded out into the Hugo nominated Weapon Shops of Isher. The short story really is a far-future 2nd ammendment rights/stand your ground screed. The novel is more fleshed out, and the main character of the short story does the exact same things in as in the expanded out novel, only there is roughly 100 pages between his appearances in the novel and therefore you don't really give a flying gently caress about anything the short story main character does in the novel. quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 01:23
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andrew smash posted:If you’re gonna be like that, it’s the opening to The Pastel City, which is the first of Harrison’s Viriconium stories, none of which are named Viriconium. True, but they're collected in a volume called Viriconium. I just wanted to make sure he could track it down!
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Apr 14, 2018 01:56
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:Dude doing the hugo awards read through: I was afraid that's what the novel itself would be. Thanks for letting me know it's more than that. I have more questions for you, but I'm taking them to PM to keep from cluttering up the thread.
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Apr 14, 2018 04:01
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This is mostly just a rant I need to get out, but I suppose you could consider it a "review" of the Faithful and the Fallen series by John Gywnne. Long story short, it's basically a less cingy version of the Belgariad with not quite as much magic and set in this psuedo-viking/norse world. Despite what I'm going to put below, it's a reasonable read if you're looking for trope heavy farm boy prophecy hero fantasy and don't go in expecting a masterpiece. So what is wrong with it? Let me count the ways. 1) There exist two sets of rules in the world. Those that apply to notable people (I'm talking the core protagonists and antagonists, not a rank/nobility kind of thing) and those that apply to the average person. The story isn't grimdark but the author has no problem with lots of killing and even unimportant named people dropping regularly. However if you're an antagonist or protagonist, you will constantly be captured or nearly killed but then let go. Constantly. Like multiple times per character per book. It honestly goes from just something you ignore as the usual stupid fantasy trope to funny to weary to how is it possible an author can justify this terrible storytelling to themselves? It's really bad for the antagonists, occasionally a protagonist will get killed due to incredibly stupid things. Hey, I've caught this enemy 6 times and let him go 5 times before, this time I'm going to kill him but then he begs for mercy so I can't do it. Let me turn my back to him, after he's been super powered by drinking from a magical cup which I know he's done, and literally have him escape in the next paragraph by severely wounding one friend and killing another to escape for another day (actual thing that happens, literally). I actually got pissed off in the final book when antagonists started actually being killed because it feels more like the author just decided it was the end of the series and they had to die instead of holding to his own storytelling principle that had propped the entire series before it. 2) The McGuffin. This world has skilled archers. Said archers are only used by small bandit groups and hunters. In several centuries of warfare, no one has every thought, maybe these things could be used in a fight. Surprise, they're effective. But that isn't the real McGuffin, in this book it's.... THE SHIELDWALL! All caps because you most definitely don't understand the majesty of the shield wall. Do you have 1,000 men and need to fight off 10,000 while only losing 30 of your own men? The shield wall can do it (also literally in the story). Like using archers in open warfare, no one has ever had that idea and when someone comes up with idea in the first book it becomes the magic thing that nothing can stand against and the main antagonist uses it to basically conquer the world in a few short battles against regular overwhelming odds with basically no losses. It's impossible to describe how ridiculous the "shieldwall" is held up in this book without going back through and pulling the constant litany of it's uses as examples and I'm just not that invested, but it is bad. 3) The protagonists aren't people, they're one dimensional cut outs of the hero archetype. They're fighting to stop Satan from coming to the human world and destroying it. They generally believe this and know what's on the line. But when push comes to shove, if they haven't killed someone in battle (which basically never happens to antagonist) they refuse to actually kill anyone to prevent them from doing more damage no matter how many times they've been caught and released/gotten away. The first couple books they constantly lose fights because they believe the only way to fight a war is honorable one on one combat with the enemy on a battlefield. They regularly place oaths to each other above the goal of saving the world. At one point or another every single one of them gets the "Oh, I'm going to go off and do this incredibly important thing on my own without telling anyone else (or only a few others going with me)" and get caught, cause several people to die, and need rescued. Every single protagonist. All the major players get betrayed by their own trusting nature multiple times. Look, I long ago accepted practical characters and fantasy stories are basically incompatible in authors minds but there is a limit and a good character should swing between rational and irrational mindsets, just like any real person. Gwynne uses this series to prove the limit doesn't matter if you just never have a character make a rational decision in their entire life. And those three aren't counting all the standard bullshit stuff that happens. Do you want your love at first sight? Check. Oh you want multiple characters to get into a relationship with little to no buildup or explanation? Check that too. Do you like your mentor characters to leave out or otherwise deceive their mentee for no actual reason other than checking the trope box? Check. Painfully obvious evil characters put into positions where they can easily backstab a person to move the plot forward or use complex plans and ruses that could never actually work but somehow magically do? Check. Just so frustrating because the writing is pretty good but it's hard to imagine what Gwynne was thinking to butcher the story so badly. nessin fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 04:29
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anilEhilated posted:Space Opera by Cat Valente released a couple days ago; I'm about halfway through but it's a lot of fun so far, kind of reminds me of the Hitchiker's in the sense of "look, space is really wacky" but it's a lot cleverer about it. i find it hard to believe she's cleverer than douglas adams but good to hear you lie it, it's been popping up in my recommends for awhile.
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Apr 14, 2018 13:53
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branedotorg posted:i find it hard to believe she's cleverer than douglas adams but good to hear you lie it, it's been popping up in my recommends for awhile. That’s not as high a bar to set as you think it is.
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Apr 14, 2018 14:06
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nopantsjack posted:Any good sci-fi horror books come to anyone's mind? Ive read Blindsight and Ship of Fools and I'm working my way through PKD and the Strugatsky bros works. I really like The Gone World by Tom Sweterlitsch. It takes place in a world where the US Navy has secretly had time travel since the 70s but after 20 years of messing with time they discover that there is an end point to the human race coming and it seems to be moving backwards in time as it keeps getting closer every time they go to the future.
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Apr 14, 2018 16:22
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Proteus Jones posted:That’s not as high a bar to set as you think it is. Wow, this thread is hot take city
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Apr 14, 2018 17:52
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Douglas Adams is a very specific type of humor that some people absolutely love and some people bounce off hard. I found Hitchhiker's Guide incredibly boring, and the humor intensely grating and not funny. I wouldn't say he's "not clever," but his style of humor just does nothing for me. Hitchhiker's Guide also has that kind of aura around it where some people who are into it think saying "Don't Panic" or "Bring a towel" etc. is a hilarious reference to make out of nowhere. This makes me kind of actively dislike it rather than just say "not for me."
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Apr 14, 2018 17:57
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angel opportunity posted:Douglas Adams is a very specific type of humor that some people absolutely love and some people bounce off hard. I found Hitchhiker's Guide incredibly boring, and the humor intensely grating and not funny. I wouldn't say he's "not clever," but his style of humor just does nothing for me. Hitchhiker's Guide also has that kind of aura around it where some people who are into it think saying "Don't Panic" or "Bring a towel" etc. is a hilarious reference to make out of nowhere. This makes me kind of actively dislike it rather than just say "not for me." The Hitchhiker's Guide series makes a lot more sense when you realize the early drafts were Doctor Who scripts that got rejected for being too zany.
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Apr 14, 2018 17:59
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