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Luna Was Here posted:And here class, is someone with no understanding of what they're talking about I'm p sure the coach of the challenge series team we have posting here has posted this exact thing before but o k luna
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Jan 25, 2017 03:00
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curiousCat posted:I'm p sure the coach of the challenge series team we have posting here has posted this exact thing before but o k luna Chris de Sperg posted:there are decent draft strategies to be made around this playing off the fact that you get a corresponding pick to go with the op, can't go into too much detail on that though unfortunately. but in general it's just not worth the risk, and honestly red side has such a massive natural advantage in drafting under the new pick-ban system (giving them last pick first phase AND first pick second phase AND last pick second phase makes it way too easy for red to counter just about everything blue wants to do) that it's not even THAT unbalanced to have three must-bans for red rn
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Jan 25, 2017 03:17
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I posted that without knowledge of second phase pick order. I still disagree, but I guess this is as good a time as any to start learning advanced pick strategy like I've been meaning to. I'll follow up when I know more
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Jan 25, 2017 03:39
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Here is what I gleam from the patch notes. They say they want to give gragas a early buff, but give him a 4 > 6% max health on ability use buff that's gonna turn him from very hard to impossible to kill lategame. For nid will have to see if she got ward levels of vision like the patch notes were talking about or if it's closer to teemo shroom levels of vision. Yi got a surprisingly big buff out of nowhere. The real hidden winners of the patch are Malzahar and zyra which are indirectly stronger because of the jungle changes, they can give their jungler a absurdly strong leash compared to other supports with their pets, malz's pets can practically solo the buff and the jungler won't even take a scratch.
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Jan 25, 2017 04:15
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Dr. Tim Whatley posted:If I'm loving vel support should I also get zyra? Absolutely. Zyra's been a strong niche support for a really long time, and a strong meta support for a long time as well. She lets you bully really hard, and has similar scaling to Vel'koz/Brand other ryliandries/DoT supports. Unsolicited thoughts on how I play her, which I think is p standard: I'd generally go 12/18/0 if you're against a lane that's just weak and can bully them, 0/18/12 is probably better though. Imo thunderlords fits into her harass patterns etc. very well in lane and is easy to proc, although some people go DFT as well but I'm not sure if that actually translates into more mid/late game damage, esp. given it's probably weaker during laning and def denies I go q-w-e start, then max E-Q-W which is actually pretty similar to Q-E-W max in terms of win rate, but imo is 'best practice' in terms of maximizing your peel and not having people complain about playing a mage support. Generally the problem is never that you don't do enough damage as Zyra. I also generally prefer exhaust over ignite; imo the mid/late game value is worth it and you should be able to zone hard enough without ignite that you can do most of the damage in laning anyway even w/o the couple of extra kills ignite could give you. Also facilitates playing more aggro by getting you out of jungle ganks. You can go just AP/Pen, but if you're real committed to Zyra and similar supports (well, mostly Zyra) the all magic pen page is fun and good. Watchers/Sighstone --> Liandries --> Rylais is a good base build, plus sorcs. I usually start with a refillable, and fairly often transition into corrupting and sometimes dark seal when the games going well. I also go for those/spellthiefs upgrade before SS when lane is going well -- if you keep the lane positioned outside your tower/keep pressure on your opponents you can usually get away with map awareness + control ward + seeds, although this is a bad idea when you can get all-in'ed easily or aren't keeping things 2v3able. The greed here also kind of balances out well with the more conservative summoner choice, depending. General tips: Try and get plants down before ulting, but prioritize zoning/actually hitting the ult. Combo'ing just for burst can be fine as well! Try and get a mix of q and e plants, the marginal damage for extra plants of the same type is lower than for diff ones. Zyra is incredibly fun, and is just about all I play now that Bard feels kind of weak. Just make sure to kite lots and position well, basically Vel'koz stuff but with more kiting and less sitting still and ulting, and you'll do great!
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Jan 25, 2017 05:21
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RIP ZEEZ
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Servaetes posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK1us57TL7Q That's... really disappointing.
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Jan 25, 2017 06:01
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foutre posted:Zyra is incredibly fun, and is just about all I play now that Bard feels kind of weak. He's completely in the dumpster right now, since he's got a relatively short effective harass range and none of the survivability of a tank support. Zyra and Malz both take a huge poo poo on him in lane.
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Jan 25, 2017 06:06
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The Talon skin is pretty dope.
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Jan 25, 2017 06:25
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I love playing Zyra but I genuinely don't get how she has gone this long without getting nerfed, she's honestly just ridiculous. I was iffy on Support Mal but damned if he isn't hilarious for effectively loving the enemy all through lane and double at 6.
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Jan 25, 2017 06:29
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ImpAtom posted:I love playing Zyra but I genuinely don't get how she has gone this long without getting nerfed, she's honestly just ridiculous. My only guess is that her and Brand are responsible for a significant enough uptick in the rate of people playing Support that Riot's approaching any balance changes to her with trepidation. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see some base damage nerfs on her abilities in either this patch or the next (though the most effective strategy for nerfing her lane presence would be to simply increase the base cooldown rate of her W to create larger windows where she can't bust out big harass).
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Jan 25, 2017 07:16
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I played a lot of brand and zyra support last season so I'm having a bit of a sabbatical. In the same vein I've decided this season will be taliyah support. Her combo burst damage is cray, and poke with worked ground Q in lane is very mana efficient but her ultimate can be a huge trap when you don't have the farm to back up the ride. Build paths are almost identical to brand/zyra but you have a lot more kiting and pick potential I feel, especially if you go total selfish route with spellthief.
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Jan 25, 2017 07:32
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JerryLee posted:Was Ghost being too strong actually a problem? I never actually see anyone take it (disclaimer: high Silver). Ya ghost is probably the safest summoner spell to take in lane for most mages and its very reliable because the cdr is so low compared to flash. I think in lower elos people don't always follow the meta. I remember I use to pick Ignite no matter what when I was silver but also I think most people were picking ignite no matter what around like s3-s4.
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Jan 25, 2017 08:04
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I legit didnt realize zyra was considered so strong outside of proplay atm. I usually just dooky all over her as zilean. Zyra is an old favorite of mine (it's fun to duo with a amumu jung) but she's just so immobile, squishy, and honestly kind of short ranged (her ult mainly) that any carryish jungler just jumps on her most fights and kills her. You really need some good peel for her to work right outside of laning phaae.
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Jan 25, 2017 08:57
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ArbitraryC posted:I legit didnt realize zyra was considered so strong outside of proplay atm. I usually just dooky all over her as zilean. Zyra is an old favorite of mine (it's fun to duo with a amumu jung) but she's just so immobile, squishy, and honestly kind of short ranged (her ult mainly) that any carryish jungler just jumps on her most fights and kills her. You really need some good peel for her to work right outside of laning phaae. Or you just play like you're Soraka and stay 500 units behind your ADC and poop on anybody who dives the backline, that works too
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Jan 25, 2017 10:46
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From the patch notes:quote:Guardian of the Sands Skarner no longer causes an insanely loud noise to play if certain actions were taken 
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Jan 25, 2017 12:35
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New Warwick is pretty fun. Not sure if you should be going tanky or bruiser yet, but he's definitely more fun than old point-and-click wolfman.
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Jan 25, 2017 13:25
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JerryLee posted:Was Ghost being too strong actually a problem? I never actually see anyone take it (disclaimer: high Silver). It's the go-to summoner on most midlaners. You usually take it unless you are an assassin and want ignite or if you are in a matchup where you need cleanse. That being said, you see mids running exhaust and heal and cleanse and ghost and ignite, so there's variety, but ghost is probably the most common non-flash summoner on mids right now.
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Jan 25, 2017 14:30
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Tournament logic is that Miss Fortune support beats Zyra. I've been playing it a lot and I can see the logic: you press E whenever Zyra tries to position for her attack, giving your adc time to get away from a compromised position and grinding the squishy mages down, especially in combination with Q. You get to focus completely on landing Q instead of splitting your attention on that and farming, and can push people out of lane with them or at least zone them. That makes it a lot easier to compete with Zyra who otherwise is difficult to punish in lane. Same with Malzahar because E breaks his passive and damages him through it, or can slow his voidlings and keep them from eating your adc. When you hit six just E R them and they have to flash or die, and they suck without flash, especially Malzahar who needs it for sweet initiations. Just in a vacuum she's a pretty good support, like old Trundle support which I also played a ton of. You get to zoom around at Janna speed and kill wards faster with your improved attack speed from W, you can check brush with your E and you can use the slow field to run away from or chase people, which Janna can't do. Slow fields have the advantage of ignoring tenacity and spellshields. Trundle is tankier and Janna has better peel, but MF can sort of peel with damage and can carry the team's Black Cleaver to potentially mitigate the effectiveness of armor stacking against multiple tanks, whereas Trundle has to pick one to ult. In other news, speccing your friends is fun.
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Jan 25, 2017 18:37
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slydingdoor posted:Tournament logic is that Miss Fortune support beats Zyra. I've been playing it a lot and I can see the logic: you press E whenever Zyra tries to position for her attack, giving your adc time to get away from a compromised position and grinding the squishy mages down, especially in combination with Q. You get to focus completely on landing Q instead of splitting your attention on that and farming, and can push people out of lane with them or at least zone them. That makes it a lot easier to compete with Zyra who otherwise is difficult to punish in lane. Same with Malzahar because E breaks his passive and damages him through it, or can slow his voidlings and keep them from eating your adc. When you hit six just E R them and they have to flash or die, and they suck without flash, especially Malzahar who needs it for sweet initiations. There's a few other reasons MF beats Zyra. One, for some reason Love Tap counts as a seperate damage source, so one auto from her takes 2hp off a plant. This means that if MF and the ADC auto a Zyra plant it dies instantly, or if Zyra is in range, auto + double up. Secondly, the top three ADCs in pro play right now are Ashe, Varus, and Jhin, so your ADC is always going to have a snare or stun at level 6, and if Zyra is held in place and MF ults Zyra is 100% dead.
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Jan 25, 2017 18:59
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It's a shame that usually when none-support champs migrate to support riot tends to gut them to the point their solo lane careers are over.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:18
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:It's a shame that usually when none-support champs migrate to support riot tends to gut them to the point their solo lane careers are over. Lulu seems like she might be a good midlaner again, though!
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Jan 25, 2017 19:20
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How's redemption holding up after the nerf, still a teamfight winner?
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Jan 25, 2017 19:22
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Lulu and Sona can also oneshot plants and kill voidlings faster than normal. Since the Lulu buffs I could see running them into the mages so you can have a more traditional support and what can be the more familiar playstyle that comes with that. You can nearly solo oneshot mage supports with E R and have the movespeed to line it up right even when your adc superstar picks Lucian or Vayne or Twitch or Ezreal or some poo poo. It's at the very least a nearly guaranteed shove out of lane. Which reminds me, the other favorite support MF reason is she can help push the lane then kill towers quickly, about the same speed as Trundle but from a much safer distance. With "first brick" being a thing now I've had it matter when top gets poo poo on by a countergank but we push the bottom laners out and have to race them. Redemption still feels brokenly good.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:28
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Sexpansion posted:Lulu seems like she might be a good midlaner again, though! Nothing really has changed, she still can't waveclear after the glitterlance nerfs from last season so nah
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Jan 25, 2017 19:30
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:It's a shame that usually when none-support champs migrate to support riot tends to gut them to the point their solo lane careers are over. The main reason that a lot of the AP supports ended up migrating is because they were straight-up bad or inferior to other solo laners in a similar role. Release Zyra was a frankly awful midlaner who was as slow as a rock without serious pushing power, and Brand relying on so many skillshots meant that he usually got danced around by people like Ahri or outdueled by point-and-click champs like Annie. Zyra is at the point where she's not even played in a solo lane enough to warrant a mention in the majority of stat trawlers, and I think it's fine to thus treat her as exclusively being a support and balancing her accordingly. Malzahar is a trickier issue, but he's got a rock solid winrate in mid right now, and cutting down some of Zyra's power might lead to a meta shift that makes him weaker as a support without any number adjustments anyways.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:31
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Zyra was beyond broken at release
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Jan 25, 2017 19:35
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Firebert posted:Zyra was beyond broken at release Alright: release Zyra after they stripped down her bonkers numbers.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:36
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Firebert posted:Zyra was beyond broken at release Only purely by numbers though. Ever since release she's been underwhelming as a midlaner kit-wise, but on release her numbers were so high it didn't matter because she did twenty billion damage so it offset her flaws.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:37
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Sexpansion posted:It's the go-to summoner on most midlaners. You usually take it unless you are an assassin and want ignite or if you are in a matchup where you need cleanse. Ignite is only good if you are vs healing champs like Mundo/Swain/Vlad or you will all in pre 6. Some matchups might involve heavy trading pre 6 like Leblanc vs Ahri or Fizz vs Zed if the other guy has ignite he can kill you at lvl3 so you need ignite to atleast go even. Or you play safe till 6 where you can kill them with your ult and don't need ignite. Most champs you can get a kill without ignite at 6 if you know how much dmg you do. I haven't been using ignite recently even on assassins like Fizz/Leblanc tp is so strong. Late game splitpushing as LB is way more useful than having ignite. It's impossible to catch LB with 45% cdr and she can burst anyone who isn't a tank or a duelist. Often you don't even have to use TP to flank the enemy will just start overreaching midlane while you split or the wrong person will come defend vs you like the adc who loves their bot farm. Few champions are really good with ignite. I would say on Zed its a must it increases his 1v1 vs adc a lot since they can't lifesteal anymore. Talon you can all in lvl3 and his passive does poo poo tons of dmg. Katarina you basically only want kills and not farm so ignite is a must so you can all in lvl6. If they are smart they will beat the crap out of lvl1 when your Kat and don't have e to proc ur dagger. So you just give up some farm and wait for the kill lvl6 or with gank.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:42
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I thought Warwick would be really good, but from watching some streamers, his early clear is way too slow to make an impact. He'll still be good in low elo, I think, but he's not cracking top tier play anytime soon.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:44
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Ulio posted:Few champions are really good with ignite. I would say on Zed its a must it increases his 1v1 vs adc a lot since they can't lifesteal anymore. Talon you can all in lvl3 and his passive does poo poo tons of dmg. Katarina you basically only want kills and not farm so ignite is a must so you can all in lvl6. If they are smart they will beat the crap out of lvl1 when your Kat and don't have e to proc ur dagger. So you just give up some farm and wait for the kill lvl6 or with gank. Yeah it does seem like Leblanc and Fizz want TP now, but as you say, Kat, Zed, and some other less meta assassins (mid lane J4, for instance) probably still take ignite most of the time.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:46
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Ivern came out the real winner of a harder hitting jungle with less viable leashes and 5 MR for chalice and support item buffs.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:56
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ivern's walk cycle gives me the heebie jeebies
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Jan 25, 2017 20:06
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Riot's jungle changes are always hilarious. "The jungle is being dominated by level 3 gankers who ignore Gromp and Krugs. Early ganks are out of control! Solution : make Gromp and Krugs rear end rape anyone who has a weak early game and would rather farm a few more levels."
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Jan 25, 2017 20:17
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why the gently caress does warwick have a dash on a six-second cooldown with 1.2AD and 0.9AP ratios edit: it's also % max health damage kingcobweb fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 25, 2017 |
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Jan 25, 2017 21:04
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Ahri no longer occasionally extends the attack range of the first basic attack of targets hit by E - Charm after the charm effect wore off. Oops. Camille’s second cast of Q - Precision Protocol now correctly damages wards at level 16 and higher Syndra’s Dark Spheres are no longer displaced by Blast Cones. Something something minions… Fixed a bug where Zyra’s dead body could intercept ARAM’s snowball. Whoops. Enemy spell shields are no longer consumed when a nearby Kha’Zix evolves an ability Fixed a bug where if Quinn E - Vaulted Gangplank at the same time as he triggered a E - Powder Keg explosion on multiple targets, it made for one fast pirate The range indicator for Rengar’s Passive - Unseen Predator is now consistent across all skins. Fixed a spectator bug where after skipping forward or backward, Ethereal DJ Sona would sometimes leave disembodied chunks of her gear on the map When an Azir kills another Azir with a different skin, the dying Azir no longer steals his killer's skin's death animation particles What even is league?
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Jan 25, 2017 21:23
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kingcobweb posted:why the gently caress does warwick have a dash on a six-second cooldown with 1.2AD and 0.9AP ratios Because Warwick has next to no other AD or AP ratios, and someone in Riot thinks making AP/Gunblade/AD Warwick sort of viable is a good idea, instead of fully embracing the standard 1-2 on-hit items > full tank Warwick is clearly balanced around. % max health phys/magic damage is actually a good thing for tanks. It's an incentive to build tanky that doesn't result in mad mid-game burst due to excessively high base damages. In a typical on-hit>tank build against a mid-game squishy with 1000hp, 120% AD + 10% max HP is about 200 damage. Almost every tank has a >200 base damage ability that they max first, so Warwick's Q hurts less in the snowbally mid-game. The problem with % max health is stuff like Poppy Q, which has >200 base damage and % max HP damage. % max HP damage should never be combined with serious base damage.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:25
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Methanar posted:When an Azir kills another Azir with a different skin, the dying Azir no longer steals his killer's skin's death animation particles 
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Jan 25, 2017 21:42
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Sexpansion posted:When an Azir kills another Azir with a different skin, the dying Azir no longer steals his killer's skin's death animation particles I feel like this belongs in the "rumble is weaker on red team" pantheon of incomprehensible Riot bugs.
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Jan 25, 2017 22:55
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new warwick is 4.20 levels of broken.
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Jan 25, 2017 23:13
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