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Mailer posted:First K2 trip report: Spawned so close to a biter spawn (even with cranking up the starting area one notch) that eight coal drills set them off before I'd even finished the first, bizarrely long, research project. My gun as well as the supplied miniturret seemed to weirdly do nothing to them at random intervals like the "bullets can be blocked" logic was randomly turning on even at point blank range. Crafted a machinegun, had the same weird bullet behavior, abandoned game. I'll need to check if there's a console command to turn off wackyguns. Are you clicking at point blank range? Iirc the bullets won't travel past the spot you're clicking. Biters in k2 are just super strong in general, don't feel bad about disabling them completely if you're not a fan.
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Oct 5, 2022 17:22
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little munchkin posted:Are you clicking at point blank range? Iirc the bullets won't travel past the spot you're clicking. Yup. Stood right next to it clicking. Tried wiggling around the biter clicking it. I eventually killed it when it finished destroying something and went after me. Kiting it a little bit made the bullets register again. On my second game I could gun them down just fine, though I'll probably just re-enable autoaim since the precise shooting doesn't add much. I have no idea where the hell long inserters are in the tech tree. I see what look to be immersite-infused long inserters, but nothing else. It's been... difficult automating anything so I've spent forever manually running around feeding boxes instead of automating stuff. Like 80 minutes in and with a little more work I'll finally have copper miners up and running. My steam power is still fed via a box.  Edit: Looks long inserters might have unlocked with fast inserters... though it didn't show as enabled on that screen. Edit 2: Defenses up and starting actual automation. I don't mind the increased logistical challenge exactly, but the bulk of it feels like it massively slows down the beginning and "100 new technologies" doesn't mean a lot when all of them so far have just been a way to generate a new resource that was tacked on. Not having radars until way later is the worst because I've got two colonies pissed at me and no idea where they are. Mailer fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Oct 6, 2022 |
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Oct 5, 2022 22:00
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I want to try this mod: Biters for resources with a team of goons for a stream for goons in LP. The thread announcing it and arranging the date will go up Tuesday or Wednesday in LP, but I thought it couldn't hurt to post here first and see if there was interest. And also, I've never hosted a large game before. I have pretty good internet, but is there anything I should be aware of? I've seen some streamers have pretty big servers running before.
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Oct 8, 2022 22:42
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I’m learning quickly that rail signals are not coming to me naturally. Anyone have a video they can recommend which explains the basics? The others I’ve seen have been 40m+ and I just need simple.
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Oct 9, 2022 00:58
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Just before every entrance to an intersection, place a chain signal. Just after every exit from an intersection, place a regular signal. If that exit is very close to another entrance, place a chain signal instead. Place regular signals along non-intersection lines to allow multiple trains to use them at once. That's all you really need to get started.
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Oct 9, 2022 01:08
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A longer one that is more inclusive of everything trains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TKBs6TD7WU A shorter one that is more about signals themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDmzFKhPI0
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Oct 9, 2022 01:08
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While in general it is a much more complex game, one simplistic thing I do appreciate about Factorio is the train signals. Satisfactory was a hell of a thing to learn first. I like both of them but "place this before intersections, place these frequently to separate the track and ensure trains don't collide, always place on right" is simple enough to grok immediately without any need to worry about bugs and spacing. Unrelated: I gave up on K2, largely because the tech tree had tons of stuff but it was just more intermediates. It'd probably be more manageable without biters or very light on biters, but I'm nowhere near fast enough to manage default settings on vanilla let alone do it while also building three times the buildings to get to the same upgrades. I had some fun, but it was just too many hurdles-for-the-sake-of-hurdles and not enough candy. My first few games I played with settings where biters might as well have been turned off. Aside from a slightly larger starting area so I wasn't zerg rushed at five minutes, I'm mostly rolling default. It's been... weird. For reference, I just started spreading the robot love at like 20 hours:  I decided the west can, quite literally now, die in a fire. It's not self-sufficient yet due to no robots, but that'll happen. Is this, more or less, the normal route? Just decide what sections of the map you don't care about and set your perimeter to be expanded when/if you're resource-rich enough to make the push? It's strangely compelling in a way the No Combat game isn't, even if I curse the gods for lack of stone that doesn't require me manually breaking rocks.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:42
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Biter attacks are one thing I hope they rework in the expansion. Biter attacks are based on pollution absorbed. If there aren't any biter nests in your cloud, nothing happens. If there are biter nests in your cloud, prepare your anus. They try to discourage clearing your cloud by making evolution scale with nests destroyed, but early/mid the biter attacks are simply overwhelming from a resource perspective if you don't. Only flamethrower turrets are efficient enough that you can indefinitely hold off biter attacks without having all your resources consumed by them. I really hope they make it so managing biters in your cloud and dealing with attacks is a more viable strategy, rather than the current clear your cloud and/or rush tech to deal with them. Also, dirty secret : biters are attracted to military structures. Early game you don't need to wall everything off. You can just plop down a pair of turrets with walls around them and biters will run over from pretty far away. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 02:53
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K8.0 posted:Biter attacks are one thing I hope they rework in the expansion. Biter attacks are based on pollution absorbed. If there aren't any biter nests in your cloud, nothing happens. If there are biter nests in your cloud, prepare your anus. Biters expand and will create new nests. Potentially under your cloud.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:05
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Shadow0 posted:I want to try this mod: Biters for resources with a team of goons ... How does one automate this?
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Oct 9, 2022 03:22
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K8.0 posted:I really hope they make it so managing biters in your cloud and dealing with attacks is a more viable strategy, rather than the current clear your cloud and/or rush tech to deal with them. Originally I thought you were supposed to clear out the nests to avoid attacks but this quickly scales to not working via evolution. With bog standard pollution settings you're basically never safe, so attacks might as well just exist within X meters of your stuff and pollution ignored. I guess there's the whole thing with trees eating your pollution and strategic positioning but you're probably going to blow up all those trees anyway. I'm not Mr 5000 Hours or anything but it feels more like the game emphasizes holding them off over whacking the nests. This (like a lot of things) feels really lovely until you've got bots to cover it for you. The game is more difficult, but it's more difficult because it's slower and it's slower because I've had to manually resupply turrets. quote:Also, dirty secret : biters are attracted to military structures. Early game you don't need to wall everything off. You can just plop down a pair of turrets with walls around them and biters will run over from pretty far away. I saw this in a video and have exploited it constantly. All the weird little white circles on that map are a six turret pillbox (with two ammo boxes) design that I've just copypasted everywhere that an attack might come from. It needs power, but other than that it can survive a huge amount of time on like 800 rounds. Shove a radar in the corner of the design and you'll get good coverage of your fringe areas... which is everywhere because this map is railworld as hell unintentionally.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:52
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It makes sense for the game to emphasize holding them off, because that's an ongoing production, automation, and logistics challenge in this game about production, automation, and logistics challenges. Dedicate part of your factory to producing ammunition, and set up belts or trains to take that ammo to your turrets. Personally, the part I hate about biters is the "clearing them out" part. It mostly has to be done manually, so it's annoying and repetitive, and you need to do a bunch of it when you're expanding your base.
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Oct 9, 2022 04:04
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And may god have mercy on you if you’re doing a space exploration run with biters on
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Oct 9, 2022 04:09
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I'm doing a K2+SE run and I'm glad I chose peaceful for biters. The worldgen settings only work for Nauvis but you can find other biter-free planets as well.
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Oct 9, 2022 06:42
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Mailer posted:
With just turrets (red ammo and coal on a belt) and flamethrowers I haven't had any issues with biters in K2 after the early stages (with no pollution they aren't doing anything anymore). Just at the early uranium stage - kovarex is locked behind a heap of purple research so no point trying to make nuclear power just yet
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Oct 9, 2022 09:57
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Kinetica posted:And may god have mercy on you if you’re doing a space exploration run with biters on If anything it's the opposite, biters in Space Exploration largely become a joke. The SE defaults makes biters evolve a lot slower and you get all the vanilla tools minus spidertrons at about the same speed as normal to deal with them plus jetpacks, stronger walls and freebie super powerful SE guns. Once you start traveling to other planets you can almost exclusively pick planets with little or no biters on them and completely ignore defense everywhere except Nauvis. If you can handle vanilla default biters you can easily handle SE default biters.
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Oct 9, 2022 11:05
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Teledahn posted:How does one automate this? Belts and laser turrets and a swarm of "volunteers"
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Oct 9, 2022 11:40
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K8.0 posted:Also, dirty secret : biters are attracted to military structures. Early game you don't need to wall everything off. You can just plop down a pair of turrets with walls around them and biters will run over from pretty far away. They usually don't attack belts anyway, but with the turrets nearby, they are even less likely to. So just slide belts up around their spawners. It's definitely a unique mode of resource management and something I wanted to try out.
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Oct 9, 2022 12:18
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Darox posted:If anything it's the opposite, biters in Space Exploration largely become a joke. The SE defaults makes biters evolve a lot slower and you get all the vanilla tools minus spidertrons at about the same speed as normal to deal with them plus jetpacks, stronger walls and freebie super powerful SE guns. Once you start traveling to other planets you can almost exclusively pick planets with little or no biters on them and completely ignore defense everywhere except Nauvis. If you can handle vanilla default biters you can easily handle SE default biters. Some resources are more likely to spawn on planets with biter populations. However once you're in space you also get orbital artillery and basically can drop Rods from God on the biters.
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Oct 9, 2022 12:31
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Teledahn posted:How does one automate this? https://mods.factorio.com/mod/SchallPickupTower
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Oct 9, 2022 13:48
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Darox posted:If anything it's the opposite, biters in Space Exploration largely become a joke. The SE defaults makes biters evolve a lot slower and you get all the vanilla tools minus spidertrons at about the same speed as normal to deal with them plus jetpacks, stronger walls and freebie super powerful SE guns. Once you start traveling to other planets you can almost exclusively pick planets with little or no biters on them and completely ignore defense everywhere except Nauvis. If you can handle vanilla default biters you can easily handle SE default biters. maybe they forgot to switch to SE defaults when selecting a game preset and went with Factorio defauts
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Oct 9, 2022 15:38
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PancakeTransmission posted:I'm curious as to what that point is (where biters are overwhelming). Someone in the thread pointed out the K2 Air Recyclers and at the point that you can automate that chain (bots to take away dirty filters and replace with clean ones - the water part is a closed loop), pollution is reversed to zero. In my original attempt leaving settings untouched I was getting rushed in the first five minutes of the game. I didn't even have automation unlocked, let alone any kind of supply chain. I'm sure if I was faster on the hotkeys I could have worked it but as it was so early and I was trying to learn a tech tree with a dozen more intermediates than normal it didn't work out. Slightly cranking up the starting area helped. I don't think it was anything to do with the mod itself aside from the guns being kind of glitchy and making it harder. K2 felt like a very well-made mod but in the end I just wanted more ridiculous toys to unlock and not a complete redesign to progression. In terms of overwhelming in general there's absolutely a factor of that built into the game. I enjoy the challenge more with the bugs and the need to expand but at this point I know future science is going to require pushing for that far-off stone field and I have nfi how I'm going to push that with 0.68 evolution and only red/green/black/blue. Just three big worms in a spawn was enough to nearly kill off my tank before they died and that's pretty much my best weapon. I might be completely screwed and lose here, but at least it's been interesting.
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Oct 9, 2022 15:42
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Poison capsule drivebys are the easy way to deal with worm clusters. Or I think the rocket launcher still outranges them?
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Oct 9, 2022 15:52
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Mailer posted:In my original attempt leaving settings untouched I was getting rushed in the first five minutes of the game. I didn't even have automation unlocked, let alone any kind of supply chain. I'm sure if I was faster on the hotkeys I could have worked it but as it was so early and I was trying to learn a tech tree with a dozen more intermediates than normal it didn't work out. Slightly cranking up the starting area helped. I don't think it was anything to do with the mod itself aside from the guns being kind of glitchy and making it harder. K2 felt like a very well-made mod but in the end I just wanted more ridiculous toys to unlock and not a complete redesign to progression. Doesn't K2 have an Anti-Materiel rifle that is a super long range sniper rifle? The times I've played with biters I found that was excellent for picking off worms or spawners from behind a couple towers. It would probably take ages to pick off the big worms but it's an option!
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Oct 9, 2022 16:07
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There's a youtuber with a current run going on right now that is beyond deathworld. Basically all sliders dragged to the right. It's pretty entertaining. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDgN0w4z4q0zpG6PxInzojeyp-oP0Bg8I
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Oct 9, 2022 16:09
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:There's a youtuber with a current run going on right now that is beyond deathworld. Basically all sliders dragged to the right. It's pretty entertaining. ...you can PISTOL WHIP the biters? edit: he's focusing on finding rocks and says they're pollution free, but wouldn't self mining also be pollution free? ymgve fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 16:20
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:There's a youtuber with a current run going on right now that is beyond deathworld. Basically all sliders dragged to the right. It's pretty entertaining. His videos are always fascinating and entertaining to me. I would have absolutely never been able to survive to where he is in this current video series.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:07
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ymgve posted:...you can PISTOL WHIP the biters? It's not pistol whipping per se, it's hitting them with your pickaxe. He grabs the pistol to get it out of the weapons slot as that's the only way to use melee. Time as an evolution factor is significant on deathworld. He would probably have been hosed by expansion and stronger worms/biters if he tried to just hand-mine stone and coal from the start. But yes, in general, Michael Hendriks is great and everyone should watch all his videos. You'll learn a lot about Factorio.
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Oct 9, 2022 20:52
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Darox posted:If anything it's the opposite, biters in Space Exploration largely become a joke. The SE defaults makes biters evolve a lot slower and you get all the vanilla tools minus spidertrons at about the same speed as normal to deal with them plus jetpacks, stronger walls and freebie super powerful SE guns. Once you start traveling to other planets you can almost exclusively pick planets with little or no biters on them and completely ignore defense everywhere except Nauvis. If you can handle vanilla default biters you can easily handle SE default biters. I honestly don’t mind dealing with them on the other planets, but with the scale you build up to on nauvis I can’t imagine staying sane with the constant push to expand with biters screaming at your door. Also offing them and killing pollution helps the UPS and I’ll take whatever fractions I can get
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Oct 10, 2022 04:39
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It’s no coincidence that by default, the gift of no biter expansion is given only to the highest class of Factorio players: those that love trains.
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Oct 10, 2022 05:26
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SynthesisAlpha posted:Doesn't K2 have an Anti-Materiel rifle that is a super long range sniper rifle? The times I've played with biters I found that was excellent for picking off worms or spawners from behind a couple towers. It would probably take ages to pick off the big worms but it's an option! I switched back to vanilla, but the answer is mk1 power armor with exoskeletons and rocket launcher with explosive. It's just enough to get you out alive and the rockets clear worms and spawners fast enough to not be suicide. Once I clear out around six more nests I'll be able to finally get stone into the mix again and that'll let me push for artillery and the rest of the science.
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Oct 10, 2022 17:07
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May I suggest the Helicopter mod. Strafing runs with explosive rockets are highly effective when you blast by in a Havoc at 150km/h.
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Oct 10, 2022 17:14
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nrook posted:It’s no coincidence that by default, the gift of no biter expansion is given only to the highest class of Factorio players: those that love trains. I love trains but I also love building satellite outposts solely dedicated to a single resource with trains delivering them to my main factory. It's not as big a deal as you'd think. Usually I get a bunch of trains dedicated solely to dumping absurd amounts of iron ore into my factory. Sometimes I'll place a bonus refinery dedicated to a single resource (usually green chips) away from the main factory since I need so many of them. What this means is I surround my outposts with a few laser turrets and the bugs don't seem to try and overwhelm them, since most pollution comes from my main base. Miners with efficiency modules produce very little pollution, enough that some trees will cover them up completely.
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Oct 10, 2022 17:21
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It's the worst when a biter wave paths through a power pole to one of those far-flung outposts and eats it, though.
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Oct 10, 2022 17:23
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That is annoying, sometimes I just plonk down 50 solar cells if it's far enough though.
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Oct 10, 2022 18:01
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:There's a youtuber with a current run going on right now that is beyond deathworld. Basically all sliders dragged to the right. It's pretty entertaining. Turns out even watching death world Factorio still gives me the anxiety that keeps me from doing it myself That's fun to find out
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Oct 10, 2022 18:48
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Devor posted:Turns out even watching death world Factorio still gives me the anxiety that keeps me from doing it myself Yeah I watched the whole thing so far because it's a compelling game type, an excellent narrator/editor, and a way better factorio player than I am. That early base phase is extremely clever and anxiety inducing and reminds me of warptorio which I may have to play again.
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Oct 10, 2022 19:46
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Unfortunately Biters are effectively an iron tax for most of the game, and usually you'll have to dedicate somewhere around 10-30% of your iron ores into military thangs. Later on you can just power turrets, but those come at a similar tax for, I think, red chips. I find that gun turrets with AP ammo are sufficient even into the later parts of the game, where you can just get in your car and throw grenades out the window will you light motherfuckers up to clear nests. Traditionally I like to play the game "clean" and lean away from using boilers and lean on efficiency modules to run the factory with minimal pollution. If there are trees nearby I usually get pollution contained for the entire game and never get attacked by biters.
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Oct 10, 2022 19:52
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Turrets are terrible and you really want to use them as little as possible. Flamethrower turrets are expensive to make but basically free to run, burn the world.
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Oct 10, 2022 19:57
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I'm always hurting for oil though.
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Oct 10, 2022 20:00
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