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Eternal Doom Part 6/8Arivia posted:yeah it's the bob evans MAP20/MAP30 that are the real "what the absolute hell gently caress" confusers. jim flynn is downright comprehensible at points. MagusofStars posted:-"Bob Evans" is a Midwestern restaurant chain, mostly specializing in breakfast/comfort food. The potatoes you got were probably from there; they do a bunch of frozen stuff too. As a restaurant if you're having the food fresh it's decent not special. Unfortunately there is nothing comforting about these maps! Silures has one of the worst mandatory secrets I've seen in Doom!
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Aug 5, 2022 17:32
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I tried to play these maps getting 100% secrets without cheating, and Silures (MAP 20) is the one which finally got me to crack open the editor. Even after checking the editor, it was still baffling, and I had to scour the map inside the editor very carefully tracing back tags and linedefs to figure out what the gently caress to do. I think I also could not escape this map without looking it up in the editor. It's insanely obscure. It's got TWO exits for no reason, both obscure and difficult to find. I found the blue-key exit first. The other one requires the other two keys (good luck), and if you proceed down that path, it blocks you from using the first exit to leave. The second exit requires you to do an arch-vile jump to reach a key. The only hint at that is an arrow pointing at the platform with the key. If you kill the first Arch-Vile, there's a second one you can release, if you shoot your gun in an empty room nearby... for no reason at all. I think that this map should have been swapped for Map 15, so one of the exits could have been to the secret level. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM6XyYH4q1Q - The switch on the floor is done with an effect which raises the floor and changes the floor texture - commonly used for raising bridges out of slime. - The passage at 18:44 (I missed the texture misalignment playing normally) leads to a yellow key door eventually, which hides the red key needed for the second exit. - There are so many more baffling places in this map that your video didn't find. - LOL "If this was Bob Evans, you'd have to figure out [that you need to do an Arch-Vile jump] on your own." You do! In MAP 20!
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Aug 5, 2022 19:32
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For maps this old it's often worth looking at the onemandoom reviews, the Doomworld Megawad Club playthrough if there was one, and the Doomwiki page for some insights into their development. For example on the OMD page for Eternal Doom (https://onemandoom.blogspot.com/2011/11/eternal-doom-eternalwad.html) Dia Westerteicher comments that "Silures" was something Bob Evans was working on previous to Eternal Doom II and fleshed out when he decided to contribute it to the project. So it's entirely possible that it would have been the MAP16 in Evans' own Odessa project. A LOT of community megawads have maps that often stick out like sore thumbs, and it's frequently that if you read the development history the megawad was some number of maps short and was about to be abandoned but someone stepped up and went "hey, you can have these to fill the gaps." (This person is usually Adam Windsor.) Silures is technically the end of an internal episode, so it makes sense it's larger/harder than what came before it. (Don't get me wrong, I had to consult a walkthrough too and I hated it a fair amount, it just makes sense to have it there in context.) There are some maps that use two exits for reasons other than secret levels - a good example is Sunlust MAP28, where the easy exit is a death exit and you lose all your weapons, but if you do the hard extra parts you get to carry your stuff into the absolute facegrinder that is MAP29, literally named "Go gently caress Yourself." Honestly in reflection I think I like MAP30 more than Silures. MAP30's puzzle progression is harder in a fair number of ways but the map design is far more coherent and the puzzles are evil but make sense in the setting. poo poo like "press the dead tree" can just gently caress 100% off.
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Aug 5, 2022 19:49
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Arivia posted:There are some maps that use two exits for reasons other than secret levels - a good example is Sunlust MAP28, where the easy exit is a death exit and you lose all your weapons, but if you do the hard extra parts you get to carry your stuff into the absolute facegrinder that is MAP29, literally named "Go gently caress Yourself." That's something I did on my MAP 08, a "Tricks and Traps" replacement, where if you kill all the keens you unlock the exit which leaves you alive, and if you don't, it's the death exit for you... but I've recently come around to the idea of changing that to MAP 31, because the tricks and traps thing is gimmicky and thematically more suited for a secret level, so the "death exit" would be replaced with the exit back to MAP 16, and the secret one would go to map 32. So while that map might have been intended for a different level and was slotted into that one by the project managers, I still think that the gimmick of the relatively-easy-exit and the harder exit would work better as a normal and secret exit. Spoiler Alert: I get distracted way too easily, so I'm never going to actually finish making the megawad.
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Aug 5, 2022 19:59
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At first I thought it was the long levels that would drive me up the wall, but jeez, those goddamn midis are infuriating!
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Aug 6, 2022 11:23
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Eternal Doom Part 7/8 We've got some more delightful Jim Flynn maps in this one! Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I tried to play these maps getting 100% secrets without cheating, and Silures (MAP 20) is the one which finally got me to crack open the editor. Even after checking the editor, it was still baffling, and I had to scour the map inside the editor very carefully tracing back tags and linedefs to figure out what the gently caress to do. I think I also could not escape this map without looking it up in the editor. I have to ask, were you able to actually find all the secrets? It sounds like quite the ordeal. Also, I think I want to figure out the alternate exit for "Stuff I Missed Part 3" but I am absolutely dreading it! Arivia posted:For maps this old it's often worth looking at the onemandoom reviews, the Doomworld Megawad Club playthrough if there was one, and the Doomwiki page for some insights into their development. For example on the OMD page for Eternal Doom (https://onemandoom.blogspot.com/2011/11/eternal-doom-eternalwad.html) Dia Westerteicher comments that "Silures" was something Bob Evans was working on previous to Eternal Doom II and fleshed out when he decided to contribute it to the project. So it's entirely possible that it would have been the MAP16 in Evans' own Odessa project. A LOT of community megawads have maps that often stick out like sore thumbs, and it's frequently that if you read the development history the megawad was some number of maps short and was about to be abandoned but someone stepped up and went "hey, you can have these to fill the gaps." (This person is usually Adam Windsor.) This explains so much! I have to wonder what the heck the rest of Team TNT thought about including these maps though. I agree 100% with that assessment of Map 30. We will see it in the next video, but it does take me a while. I'm glad it's not like a huge tangled mess like Silures though.
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Aug 10, 2022 18:36
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Fun science fact: 10 million BC is about the time early Hominids are thought to have diverged from chimpanzees.
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Aug 10, 2022 20:56
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Temin_Dump posted:Eternal Doom Part 7/8 Maybe I found all the secrets? I definitely didn't find all of them without cheating, though. I was using a modern source port so it had the number in the map screen (it had the downside of occasionally having some monsters stuck in floors, inaccessible). You were partly to the way of finding the alternate exit, but you first need to do another timed switch puzzle thing to get to the yellow key. There's another obscure puzzle to get the BFG on Map 20 as well. Time Gate II - "Secret is now accessible" means that a lift has lowered at the player start location. That's needed for the super-secret on the level. - The Megasphere near the end is part of a super secret, which requires unlocking a two-part secret (returning to the alternate time zones) and visiting "Caco Heaven". Beginner's End - This is a really fun map. Lots of neat concepts there. - The stairs at the start which raise up back and forth all level long are a very simple set of self-raising stairs, with a different tagged start sector at either end. The linedefs of the stairs are split in the middle, with each half facing a different way, in order to get the stairs to raise up in both directions. - The code works because there are different "gun-activated" actions. Some raise a floor to a ceiling, and through dummy sector trickery, that can also be used to lower a floor. If you shoot the wrong code, it raises a floor section in front of the target switch to block it. Shoot the right code and it lowers a raised section. I'm working on a map now which does something similar to get a BFG - you need to step on three specific labelled tiles out of 16. Get any tile wrong and you're blocked from getting the BFG. - The number safe is just a bunch of switches which raise sectors by 24 units, combined with a wall texture which has numbers at various heights. I made one of those myself to create a "timer" in one of my maps. In this map, you need to hit the right switch the right number of times to create stairs which you can use. No Parking - Because I'm ridiculously stingy with eating powerups I don't need, I never ran across the three platforms outside the "visible control sector" building to get into an area because what if I needed those powerups later???!. I looked it up on the map editor. - The switches behind the glass arrange some platforms so you can access the final area of the map.
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Aug 10, 2022 22:31
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Temin_Dump posted:This explains so much! I have to wonder what the heck the rest of Team TNT thought about including these maps though. I agree 100% with that assessment of Map 30. We will see it in the next video, but it does take me a while. I'm glad it's not like a huge tangled mess like Silures though. They probably thought Evans' work fit okay - Eternal Doom was already shaping up to be a big, extensive, puzzle and exploration map and he'd shown off how he was good at those previously. Silures and MAP30 just kind of supercharged his ambition, is my understanding - they're his magnum opuses even set against everything else he did. I played the 1998 Odessa map that's on the top 10 for that year recently and it is notably smaller and mostly less confusing. Thankfully, 1998 has far fewer megawads than 1997 did. e: MAP30, to be clear, is apparently custom-made from scratch for Eternal Doom, which makes sense since it fits the Eternal Doom art assets much better than Silures did. Arivia fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 10, 2022 23:38
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The levels may take you forever to play, but drat are the Jim Flynn levels all super interesting to watch. And your mention of castles at the end in another release game makes me think that we're finally getting an officially released 1997 game that I played a ton as a kid but never managed to get past the first episode - not because of the combat but because of all the goddamned "quests" (term used loosely).
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Aug 11, 2022 02:49
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The long-awaited finale is here! Eternal Doom Part 8/8 
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Aug 12, 2022 18:53
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When whatshisface made map 30 more and more difficult, wouldn't someone else on the team have tried it out, and noticed how impossibly dumb the switches were? Cause that was an ordeal just watching the abridged version of, well done.
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Aug 12, 2022 20:23
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Paldorian - Actually the yellow key is supposed to be reached by dropping onto the corners of the pit, as there are shoot-switches at specific heights around the center column which you can hit to raise some stairs to hit the yellow key. Although I only learned that later. The first time I also did a running leap. [uTime Slip[/u] - The breakable glass in front of switches is at least helpful for letting you know you have not hit that switch yet. Excalibur - This level fried my brain, and I'm also watching this video with a brain fried for unrelated reasons. - I will say that some of the convoluted and secret switches are to get some of the 7 or so Megaspheres on this level. They're not all for progress. - After 90 minutes or so, I gave up and started using the level editor freely to figure this poo poo out. It was a nightmare.
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Aug 13, 2022 02:17
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These last three maps looked pretty brutal. Most of the earlier maps in the wad were at least interesting to watch, but for whatever reason, these last three maps just felt like they were a confusing slog to even watch, can't imagine really playing them. Minesweeper was pretty cool though. Credits map was pretty slick also, a nice touch. I think near the end you mentioned the next one would be a new WolfenDoom, which should hopefully be a nice change of pace after this one.
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Aug 14, 2022 23:46
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Yeah I brute forced the safe in Beginner's End because I missed the combination on the desk. There's a fair number of WADs that use the "raise platforms to make stairs" gimmick, so i was able to figure it out. I somehow missed the extra ledge around the edge of the fence in Excalibur, so I had to look that up, but otherwise I was okay. Felt much more manageable than Silures, I actually replayed it a little while ago and it wasn't terrible the second go-around. Honestly, I think I liked Eternal Doom more than I disliked it overall. There's some great level design and fun set pieces that more than make up for the confusing switch hunts and on a second playthrough now that I know the pain points I think it would be a lot of fun.
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Aug 15, 2022 00:05
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At last! Our final wad of 1997! WolfenDoom: Operation Eisenmann  By Laz Rojas Part 1/1
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Aug 17, 2022 18:07
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There's something eerily familiar about that whole Dr. Schabbs/Übersoldat arena level. Has it been featured in some other video?
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Aug 17, 2022 20:02
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That is just a whole lot of bad choices and bad design mistakes which even the original Wolfenstein didn't make. - All enemies are "realistically" in identical shades of grey uniforms. This makes it almost impossible to tell the difference between a Guard, an SS and an Officer. - All 90-degrees, all the time. - The layouts are a lot of identical grey corridors with nothing to distinguish them. - Combining indistinguishable corridors with switch-hunting. - Excessive darkness. - Hitscanner Hell and limited health and armor provided. - Bullet Sponge enemies. The person behind this put in a lot of time and effort, yet doesn't seem to understand good design, good gameplay, or fun.
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Aug 17, 2022 20:22
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To be fair a lot of those things are just down to the inspiration being Wolfenstein 3D.
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Aug 17, 2022 20:29
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anilEhilated posted:To be fair a lot of those things are just down to the inspiration being Wolfenstein 3D. Wolf 3D had colors other than grey, and it broke up areas with different-sized areas and different colored walls to make navigation easier than this. This is sheer visual monotony to a fault. And the enemies were nowhere near THIS bullet-spongy, even using the pistol. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 20:49
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I saw the medi-kit message before Aces mentioned it, but I assumed it was just a change in this mod. Never realized it was a thing that existed even in vanilla. I also did not know there was such a thing as Chex Quest 2; I've only ever seen the original. And just as a general thing, I'm kind of glad we're getting back to officially released games because it feels like it's been forever.
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Aug 18, 2022 02:57
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The company name is literally "Poison Maker Chemical Manufacturing". Probably wasn't doing much good for the world before it became a mutant manufactory.
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Aug 18, 2022 04:40
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When you're named Otto Giftmacher destiny kinda forces your hand, doesn't it?
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Aug 18, 2022 08:19
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MagusofStars posted:I saw the medi-kit message before Aces mentioned it, but I assumed it was just a change in this mod. Never realized it was a thing that existed even in vanilla. 1997's best of is just an absurd amount of megawads. 1998 has none, then 1999 is back to a good few. I genuinely wonder if they're just gonna do the winners or if they're also going to do the notable mentions/runners-up when they get to the actual Cacowards, stuff could get pretty crazy at that point. Doom PWADs are gonna be the majority of the videos overall by far, basically (if they keep going for much longer). And that's not even counting the list that I think they're doing that uh. well, I'm sorry to be mean Temin, but if you're doing the list I think you're doing there are multiple wads on that list that have like less than five people completing them without mid-level saves, ever. the 25 missed cacowards list is loving horrifying difficulty wise e: also, Temin, the discord link in the OP is outdated. can you post a new one or PM me one if you're still running the discord for this LP? Arivia fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 08:32
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Arivia posted:1997's best of is just an absurd amount of megawads. 1998 has none, then 1999 is back to a good few. I genuinely wonder if they're just gonna do the winners or if they're also going to do the notable mentions/runners-up when they get to the actual Cacowards, stuff could get pretty crazy at that point. Doom PWADs are gonna be the majority of the videos overall by far, basically (if they keep going for much longer). I don't know what I'm doing wrong with this link! I've created a permanent link like 3 times and it just doesn't stick! https://discord.gg/RtAhKJC As far as quick saves and lists, I have recorded wads from that list, and have been using quick saves in them because I don't have the time I used to. I'm excited to finally be done with the 1997 wads. 1998 will be a breeze by comparison!
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Aug 18, 2022 08:59
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:The person behind this put in a lot of time and effort, yet doesn't seem to understand good design, good gameplay, or fun. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:- All enemies are "realistically" in identical shades of grey uniforms. This makes it almost impossible to tell the difference between a Guard, an SS and an Officer.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:36
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It's cereal time once again! Chex Quest 2 Part 1/1
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Aug 24, 2022 17:35
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I tried some kind of Chex nibbles when I was in the USA. It was okay, a bit bland. Is the cereal any better?
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Aug 24, 2022 19:02
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Time for another console port! Doom for the Sega Saturn Part 1/1
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Aug 26, 2022 17:45
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That Pain Elemental in E1M1 almost gave me a heart attack. 
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Aug 26, 2022 18:45
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Listen: John Doom has come unstuck in time. He has failed to walk through a door in Tricks and Traps and failed to come out another one in The Pit. John is spastic in time, has only rough control over where he is going next, and the levels aren't necessarily fun. The framerate is just that bad in Saturn Doom. Meaty Ore fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Aug 26, 2022 |
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Aug 26, 2022 21:28
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Temin_Dump posted:It's cereal time once again! There are a ton of Doom mods that are just more Doom, and there are plenty that are "what can we make Doom do?", but I feel like it's actually kind of rare to see one that's just "Doom but not as good."
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Aug 26, 2022 21:37
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Since you mentioned the Saturn release clusterfuck, just a bit more detail: Sony had originally planned on partnering with Nintendo to make the Playstation, but Nintendo backed out, so Sony decided to go it alone. Sega on the other hand, had a highly successful Genesis console, but the follow-up 32X expansion was a total flop, so they really wanted to push hard on the Saturn to regain momentum. But they'd heard about Sony's new console and Nintendo's upcoming N64, so Sega wanted to rush it to be first to market with the next generation and had to cut a lot of corners technically. Before the E3 Expo, everybody was expecting that it would be easily $400 or more for the Playstation. Sega has a keynote speech with the entire spotlight and wants to ride a wave of good press with a big announcement. So Sega's leader talks all about the Saturn, its' capabilities, how great it'll be, it'll only cost $399, etc etc. Then at the end of it, he says "and the Sega Saturn will be available for purchase on store shelves ...(dramatic pause)... right now!". But they hadn't told any of their distributors or gaming stores about it, wanting to make a splash. So the President of EB Games (one of the biggest chains of game stores in the US) was loving *pissed* and immediately grabs Sega's rep in the hallway and went off "what the hell? we don't have any Saturns! are you cutting us out of distribution? we don't even want to sell the Saturn if you're going to treat us like crap!". Sony's presentation is the next one. One Sony leader gives the usual spiel about how great the company is, then calls up the lead developer to explain the details of the Playstation. The developer walks up with a bunch of printed pages and clears his throat like he's about to make some long speech. He says one phrase: "$299", then turns and walks off stage without another word, to loud applause.
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Aug 26, 2022 23:42
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I can't express how much it bothers me that monster sprites constantly clip through the geometry in the Saturn port!  
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Aug 27, 2022 11:56
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Time for something a bit different... Shrak for Quake  By Quantum Axcess Part 1/2
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Aug 31, 2022 17:17
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Gotta say, I love John Shrak's CONSTANTLY YELLING ~50 HP face. E: EYEBROW SPIDER THE BAR fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 18:09
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And now for the thrilling conclusion to this gross and weird game! Shrak Part 2/2 Also, we are planning to do a stream tomorrow at some point. We're gonna figure out Wolfenstein 3D co-op through Wolfendoom, co-op for the Hexen expansion and potentially see what the heck the Bug War mode is all about! I'll post a link when we're going live!
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Sep 2, 2022 17:19
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Hey! We're going live with Wolf 3D Co-op!
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Sep 3, 2022 19:22
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Could you inflate everything in Shrak? That's amazing, and looks so much better than the expander in Duke 3D.
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Sep 4, 2022 00:30
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Welcome back to Quake World! Quake Mission Pack 1: Scourge of Armagon Part 1/3 THE BAR posted:Could you inflate everything in Shrak? That's amazing, and looks so much better than the expander in Duke 3D. You know, I haven't tried it on everything. My gut feeling is yes, probably though. Perhaps we will look in a Stuff I Missed video.
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Sep 7, 2022 20:24
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