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In the new Barbarian Societies mode, I've noticed that there are far fewer camps spawning. It makes them hardly a threat at all. I'm also finding it hard to enjoy games with the AI because they can never defeat me in the late game. Once I catch up with their enormous head start, it's all over.
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Apr 10, 2021 20:12
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i don't care if the AI can't defeat me but it doesn't matter because it doesn't feel bad, or anything. but i feel bad about rushing human players because that isn't fun to get removed from the game before turn 30. but, against real people who know what they're doing, getting such a head start is also the only way to win. for me civ is a game best enjoyed by yourself, where you war in the very beginning and treat the rest of the game as a sim city clone of superficial infrastructure planning and management Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 10, 2021 |
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Apr 10, 2021 20:14
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AceOfFlames posted:HOW? Even in normal I now have Barb Scouts that come out of nowhere and pillage my districts! And every time I chase them, regardless of unit, they are always one step ahead unless they hit a dead end. And if I get to the camp with the warrior or slinger, the Spearmen just kill me 30% of the time. Does the RNG just hate me? Aside from some unlucky starts, they shouldn't be coming out of nowhere. Have your warrior explore the area in a widening spiral; you should have the first circuit well underway when your first produced unit comes online. Once the terrain is revealed, you will be able to see when a new barbarian camp spawns (ALWAYS!), and can go kill it before it spawns its first scout. The camp shows even through the fog of discovery (i.e., as long as you were there once, you'll find out about new camps, even without dudes right there), though it is easier to see with the strategic view of the map.
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Apr 10, 2021 20:28
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Spearmen got a boost a few updates back so you can't just throw your starting warrior at barb spearmen and expect to win now. You'll need back-up or patience. Really, the biggest factor in how painful the barbarians will be is how many city states are nearby. If you have a lot, they will most likely encounter and destroy the barbarians; if you're mostly on your lonesome, they're your problem to deal with.
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Apr 10, 2021 20:40
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Marmaduke! posted:Spearmen got a boost a few updates back so you can't just throw your starting warrior at barb spearmen and expect to win now. You'll need back-up or patience. Really, the biggest factor in how painful the barbarians will be is how many city states are nearby. If you have a lot, they will most likely encounter and destroy the barbarians; if you're mostly on your lonesome, they're your problem to deal with. Hit Hit heal Hit is enough to take out a spearman with the barb card. use your scout to scare their scouts away. also you can play barb mode, buy their warrior then farm them for money
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Apr 10, 2021 23:18
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Fur20 posted:if the spearman is killing you, you need more ranged units to engage the endless flow of spawns without taking damage. keep in mind that attacking in melee with your warrior will always inflict damage on you, so if you've been fighting barbarians on the way to their encampment, of course the spearman is going to wipe your injured units out. but ranged damage is always free! Not even the slingers are strong enough to kill a spearman. Having a ranged unit is useless if the "range" is right next to it.
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Apr 11, 2021 13:26
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If you're losing slingers to spearmen you are doing something very, very wrong. I don't know how to write out advice for this without sounding very very condescending, but basically slingers deal damage without taking it in return, so they can safely gang up on people, and shouldn't really be taking losses since you can always stand exactly out of range when you have to be defensive. They also don't stay as slingers forever, and you can get a pile of veteran archers for cheap very quickly.
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Apr 11, 2021 13:33
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Put a full health slinger in rough terrain 2 hexes away from the camp. The spearman will leave the camp to move towards the slinger, giving you a free shot at it. It will still be able to do >50% damage to your slinger, but shooting it a second time will lower its health enough that it will retreat and fortify (also by this point you should have enough xp to promote.) If you just walk up on level terrain and the spearman gets the first hit, yeah you're hosed. If the scout already spotted your city and the camp is cranking out more troops, you're going to need reinforcements (which you can always do anyhow if you want some extra insurance.)
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Apr 11, 2021 13:35
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AceOfFlames posted:HOW? Even in normal I now have Barb Scouts that come out of nowhere and pillage my districts! And every time I chase them, regardless of unit, they are always one step ahead unless they hit a dead end. And if I get to the camp with the warrior or slinger, the Spearmen just kill me 30% of the time. Does the RNG just hate me? What difficulty you are playing on? I pay on emperor and a slinger is usually more than enough to protect me from early barbs
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Apr 11, 2021 15:14
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AceOfFlames posted:I don't play Civ to make military units. It's Civilization, not Fighting. "Si vis pacem, para bellum?" gently caress that. I like playing build-y style too, but speaking philosophically (historiographically?), the very concept of human civilization is founded upon violence, whether it be states coercing their own people into certain behaviors (farm! build pyramids!) or seizing the wealth of neighboring societies. Even if you want to go for science, culture, or even diplomatic victories, you necessarily need a military in the game. Civ can have a pretty high learning curve, there's a lot of poo poo going on. Barbarians in particular can be pretty troublesome at the beginning. It (surprisingly) doesn't look like anyone has suggested watching Potato McWhiskey on YouTube yet, he's a fantastic player who does a really good job of walking through things turn by turn. I've been playing the Civ series since #2 and watching him has improved my Civ 6 game dramatically.
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Apr 11, 2021 16:24
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Elias_Maluco posted:What difficulty you are playing on? I pay on emperor and a slinger is usually more than enough to protect me from early barbs Prince. Does the fact that the barbs are on the camp count? TipTow posted:I like playing build-y style too, but speaking philosophically (historiographically?), the very concept of human civilization is founded upon violence, whether it be states coercing their own people into certain behaviors (farm! build pyramids!) or seizing the wealth of neighboring societies. Even if you want to go for science, culture, or even diplomatic victories, you necessarily need a military in the game. I do watch Potato McWhiskey and he seems to have a lot of luck with barbs that I don't have an he plays on freaking deity.
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Apr 11, 2021 18:41
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You do seems to have extraordinary bad luck Ive played on prince, king and now Ive been on emperor for a while, and only in my first few prince games I remember having that kind of trouble with barbarians Im like you, Im a pacifist civ player (until late game when i get bored) so I try to make it with as few military units as possible. I usually will build a slinger or two right at the start (and will upgrade them to arches when i researched it), and will only build any more if I see a AI is coming for me, or much later in game. I dont even bulild walls, usually (unless I get attacked) And thats usually enough, along with the initial warrior, to fend of the barbs and clear the near camps, and I never get rushed like that
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Apr 11, 2021 19:07
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AceOfFlames posted:I do watch Potato McWhiskey and he seems to have a lot of luck with barbs that I don't have an he plays on freaking deity. There was one game from a few months back where I think he was doing domination and he just ended up letting his capital get completely overrun by barbs while he was out doing other stuff. I'm much worse about being able to deal with that then he is. That's also a reason I typically don't play single continent maps, or if I do I'll reroll until I start near a coast. It's so hard to be able to manage barbs when they can wander in from any direction. I also like to get a builder far too early. I almost never build a settler until I have Magnus with a promotion setup in a city, so that's typically after having gotten some combination of slinger-slinger-monument-builder-granary. I know it's slow but I prefer to wander the map a bit before settling a second city. Though that will change depending on Civ and or starting location. Sometimes you get that beautiful opening river setup for industrial zones so I do try to rush that.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:32
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Maybe my problem is that I explore way too far? Whenever I see a scout, I chase it to the ends of the earth for their camp and then my forces get spread out way too thin. I now understand what people are saying about “tight circle” (it didn’t help that I tried playing Portugal a bunch and thus sent scouts to find other civis early).
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Apr 11, 2021 20:29
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I think Potato may cut out barb stuff from most of his videos bc it's boring if you already know what to do. Can't remember if he goes into more depth in his "overexplaining" videos. My first few builds are usually Scout-Scout-Slinger-Slinger/warrior-Settler, with the second military unit depending on whether I need brute force or free damage. Usually one melee unit is enough to whack a barb camp that isn't spawning if you have the policy card for +damage to barbarians. Having ranged units in advantageous tiles just makes it easier to lure them out. And of course it's not always possible to keep ranged units as completely "free damage," especially if you're new to the game and only building slingers or using them like melee units. I play on a range from Prince to Emperor depending on how annoyed I want to get with early game. Generally at the start I try to keep my warrior close to home, between my city and a frontier if there's a coast or mountain range or something on the other side serving as a natural Barb barrier, until I have some backup. I try to use him and my scouts to chase barb scouts away early game. Plus having some scouts wandering around that early will hopefully give you a couple of tribal villages and maybe even a free unit or two. I think the early investment is worth it. If they come upon your military and not a city they are less likely to go back and rat on your location to the camp, which causes the annoying spawn increase. If I see a scout I try to chase it with my own scout until I kill it or find a camp, where I immediately send my warrior and slinger. The main thing is chasing down those barb scouts. Far more annoying to me are the camps that spawn boats, since even if I'm on a coast I rarely build a navy bigger than a few galleys until I'm bored midgame. AceOfFlames posted:Maybe my problem is that I explore way too far? Whenever I see a scout, I chase it to the ends of the earth for their camp and then my forces get spread out way too thin. I now understand what people are saying about “tight circle” (it didn’t help that I tried playing Portugal a bunch and thus sent scouts to find other civis early). Yeah, I try not to worry about it if they're too far away, they might end up being someone else's problem then. I would try to radiate out in kind of a spiral. At scout alone is not gonna be enough to take out anything but another scout. QuickbreathFinisher fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 20:37
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E: Quote is not edit gah! I even thought "quote is not edit" before I scrolled down and quoted instead of edited. 
QuickbreathFinisher fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 20:41
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One thing you'll notice with a lot of PMW's games is he doesn't explore far beyond his territory until quite far into the game. That starting warrior sticks around to defend his territory, it doesn't get lost halfway around the world. What also makes him an excellent player is the focus on the longterm goals that lead to big rewards. He's terrible with policy cards and assigning governers - but his attention to the big picture and what he really needs to achieve mean his errors hardly matter.
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Apr 11, 2021 20:41
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twistedmentat posted:I think 5 had barbarians actually found cities and form civs after a while? Endless Legend did this marvelously. Every zone had from 1 to 3 NPC monster villages that would occasionally pop out hostile armies but you could either conquer them (and then rebuild the village) or do a quest for them or bribe them to pacify them. Then they'd act like a free pop in your city and if you assimilated them you could use their unique unit.
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Apr 11, 2021 20:59
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The attack patterns above and just setting up and letting the barbs come to you from a tile away will get you most of the way to dealing with them easy, except the odd times they make a horse rush at you. But it's also worth noting that barb scouts won't actually do anything except scout until their camp is cleared. They won't take civilian units, won't pillage stuff and won't initiate combat (except in a few odd situations where they have a big combat advantage). You can walk your settlers and builders right beside them so long as their camp hasn't been destroyed. So if you can intercept the scout that's great, but if he gets back to his camp killing him is pretty low priority until you're ready to clear the camp. Rogue scouts from camps that have been cleared by others can still be a pain in the rear end, though. The above might not be true above king difficulty, but I've occasionally played higher and didn't notice a change in their behavior.
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Apr 11, 2021 21:57
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AceOfFlames posted:Not even the slingers are strong enough to kill a spearman. Having a ranged unit is useless if the "range" is right next to it. with the +5 vs barbarians military policy, slingers at full health can still tank two attacks from spearmen even in terrain with no defensive modifiers (please dont put them in a swamp). the "defender" unit of a camp won't normally attack if it would die, so once its hp is low enough--red is a good indicator but not a guarantee or anything if you're walking around with heavily injured units--it'll stop attacking entirely and just fortify the encampment, and you're free to either plink it to death or run in with your warrior to clear it out. are you playing on a really high difficulty where you take a penalty vs barbarians? ... are you passing turns on your units so they can heal when necessary 
Fur20 fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 22:11
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Can you record the first part of a game or something? I've only done deity the past idk 50 games and I don't often have barb issues, maybe we could give more specific advice
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Apr 11, 2021 22:26
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Yeah it sounds like you might not be taking full advantage of the terrain. With Portugal having +1 vision range, you can just pick a couple of hills to camp your slinger/archers on and then you should always get the first shot since they need a full turn to attack that terrain. If they get the first shot on you, then you'll need to get away and heal. Or travel in packs while still making sure to lure them out as much as you can. For second and third cities, I usually just focus on what's within about 6-9 tiles from my capitol, pick out what's best in that range and try and get them settled as quick as I can. It's great if you're the first to meet a religious city state early on, that bonus plus the +1 faith and gold in the capitol as my first policy will often get me the pantheon that gives a free settler.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:17
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greazeball posted:Yeah it sounds like you might not be taking full advantage of the terrain. With Portugal having +1 vision range, you can just pick a couple of hills to camp your slinger/archers on and then you should always get the first shot since they need a full turn to attack that terrain. If they get the first shot on you, then you'll need to get away and heal. Or travel in packs while still making sure to lure them out as much as you can. This is great advice. Barbarian camps don't spawn where you have active line of sight; strategically placing units (always on hills if possible for maximum visibility) so you have a wide field of vision keeps them away for a fair bit, and when they eventually come out of the fog of war you have those units to pursue the scouts.
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Apr 12, 2021 01:54
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AceOfFlames posted:Prince. That makes the barbs stronger. However, barbarians do not heal, and you should have the +5 combat strength card plugged in. Taking down a barb camp with one unit usually requires you to let the unit rest a few turns to recover health.
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Apr 12, 2021 02:08
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You have to look at your map too. If you're on a peninsula or have 2 directions guarded by mountain ranges barbs are likely going to be easy to handle. If you're inland with lots of flat ground you might need to prioritise 3 slingers and maybe an extra warrior since you'll probably have to deal with multiple camps and a higher likelihood of horse barbs.
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Apr 12, 2021 04:23
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Now that I think about it, I think this last time I didn't have the +5 card when my slinger died. Another thing I do is set scouts and even warriors to Autoexplore. There's probably a reason why PNW never does it.
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Apr 12, 2021 06:32
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AceOfFlames posted:Now that I think about it, I think this last time I didn't have the +5 card when my slinger died. One thing that's kinda fun is just to eventually build a later game cavalry like a knight by the time you have embarcation and just set them to auto explore, gently caress it go hog wild little dude, go see what you can see I guess you could also build a skirmisher but who actually builds recon units
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Apr 12, 2021 06:51
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AceOfFlames posted:Now that I think about it, I think this last time I didn't have the +5 card when my slinger died. Hiss. Autoexplore is you explicitely stating that you are happy trading this unit's life for some form of map revelation, and you really don't give a gently caress about what's being revealed. I first use it on *caravels* (and scouts/cav) after I've manually found all other players on the opposing continent. Put it another way: Know how precious your first few bits of production are? Happy trading 30 cogs for a dozen revealed tiles in the wrong direction? No? Then baby those units.
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Apr 12, 2021 07:13
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Wasn't there supposed to be a livestream today where they will talk about the upcoming 'biggest update ever'? I can't find anything about it, have I dreamt it? edit: oh, here is the info: https://mynintendonews.com/2021/04/10/civilization-vi-developer-update-for-the-next-free-update-12th-april/
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Apr 12, 2021 15:21
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https://youtu.be/5ByomFYmEf4 Update video. New units. And some bad civs made less bad.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:47
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Hilarious they zeroed in on changes to Spain, China, Khmer, Mapuche, and Canada...oh yeah we know Georgia sucks but we're not gonna talk about them you'll just have to read 
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Apr 12, 2021 17:27
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Interesting that Kevin again emphasized “of the season” when the tweet last week sure made it sound like the last one for the game period. I’d gladly buy another, though I think we’re maybe at a point of diminishing returns with new Civs, and I’m not sure how they’d make non-Civ paid content.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:46
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As someone who recently switched to a console to play Civ 6, I'm excited to be able to play on a huge Earth TSL map again.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:36
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I want the patch notes because I hope that these buffs are for pretty much everyone not top tier dlc. Especially Egypt. I just want Egypt to be better drat it.
Eimi fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 18:42
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TipTow posted:Hilarious they zeroed in on changes to Spain, China, Khmer, Mapuche, and Canada...oh yeah we know Georgia sucks but we're not gonna talk about them you'll just have to read The Georgia changes seem really piddly in comparison. Like, OK, now Georgia is basically functional at about the same level as the launch civs while everyone else gets buffed to late cycle DLC civ levels.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:45
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Where the gently caress is the patch.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:26
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Not for another 10 days.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:58
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drat, Khmer getting buffs? were they even bad before? poo poo sounds nuts
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Apr 12, 2021 23:03
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Stefan Prodan posted:drat, Khmer getting buffs? were they even bad before? This sounds cooler, at least. The martyr thing is really finicky. This is all about building big cities and building HSs along rivers for big adjacencies.
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Apr 12, 2021 23:12
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Anno posted:This sounds cooler, at least. The martyr thing is really finicky. This is all about building big cities and building HSs along rivers for big adjacencies. yeah I just thought the bonuses they already had were pretty good, even when not even loving with the martyrs, like if you get river goddess all their poo poo is pretty strong already, at least I thought it was I mean granted I wouldn't say they were top 10 or anything but if you asked me to list weak garbage civs they wouldn't be on my list of civs that needed buffs
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Apr 13, 2021 00:24
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