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...or just go to a military surplus store and buy them for like $10.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:47
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What's wrong with you? Boldly go, dude. To prison, maybe, but go boldly wherever.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:49
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I've kind of been lurking this thread from afar, but I feel like I should get back into Star Trek. My mom was a huge fan of TOS (and I think we've got a schematic of the TOS NCC-1701 stashes around somewhere), and apparently when I was young I would absolutely flip my poo poo over watching TNG (before I could talk, even, which surprised me.) I've tried to get back into Trek for the longest time but never really had the time. I did enjoy 2009 Trek for what it was (and refused to see Into Darkness mostly out of Cumberbatch-related spite). I should also probably sprinkle in episodes of TOS alongside my TNG and eventual DS9 binges, does anyone have any recommendation of episodes to absolutely avoid/absolute must-watches for TOS? I'll probably sprinkle in recommended viewing whenever I need to catch a break from TNG or DS9. And since we're talking about B5 and BSG, I'll probably accept recs of other sci-fi series to cut my teeth on. I've kind of gotten into a bit of a Sci-Fi binge lately.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:50
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Just start from the beginning dude and never stop Trekking.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:51
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Apple Jax posted:Diggin this new fresh thread. Still a better Star Trek film than both of JJ's.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:56
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Galaxy Guest was a better Star Trek film then most of the Star Trek films. It was better than all TNG films and one of TOS films. Also Space Lincoln was awesome. 
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Oct 23, 2013 18:59
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1st AD posted:...or just go to a military surplus store and buy them for like $10. GATOS Y VATOS posted:Still a better Star Trek film than both of JJ's. 
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Oct 23, 2013 18:59
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Astroman posted:Basically because 1970. This book was written at an amazing time in Star Trek history, between 1969 and 1979. There was literally only the 3 seasons of TOS to go on, and fans obsessed over them and discussed them and thought about them as robustly as we do the entire canon now. But there was so little to go on that their speculations went to some very different places. Nowadays you can go on Memory Alpha and so many of the gaps are filled in. We know a lot about future history from the 20th century to the 24th, and alien societies. But there was something magical about those days, when there were a lot less rules and knowledge and people were freer to imagine what Earth society was like, what happened between the Eugenics Wars and Kirk's time, the history of the Vulcans and Klingons, etc. Just read a couple chapters while waiting for a phone call appointment and yeah, your description hits the nail on the head. I mean I'm enjoying the book well enough, and it's had some neat things to say about solipsism so far, but in the end I can't help picture stuff like this being written by some superfan back in 1970 and sold in mimeographed form at conventions to other people hawking Kirk/Spock slash and cheap plastic IDIC pins. If nothing else, it's interesting from the perspective of someone who grew out of his more hardcore fandom when I was a teenager. I'm thinking of reading a couple of these old Bantam/early Penguin TOS novels and blogging it. Edit: McCoy just tried to explain why women love Spock, and basically said that loving an alien is "the white female crewmember's way of coming to terms with the racism and prejudices of their Anglo-American heritage." (slightly paraphrased) 
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Oct 23, 2013 19:01
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I loving hate the JJ Abrams Trek. TOS supremacy, Romulan supremacy, books supremacy. Astroman posted:Basically because 1970. This book was written at an amazing time in Star Trek history, between 1969 and 1979. There was literally only the 3 seasons of TOS to go on, and fans obsessed over them and discussed them and thought about them as robustly as we do the entire canon now. But there was so little to go on that their speculations went to some very different places. Nowadays you can go on Memory Alpha and so many of the gaps are filled in. We know a lot about future history from the 20th century to the 24th, and alien societies. But there was something magical about those days, when there were a lot less rules and knowledge and people were freer to imagine what Earth society was like, what happened between the Eugenics Wars and Kirk's time, the history of the Vulcans and Klingons, etc. On that note, did anyone else here like the Diane Duane Rihannsu novels or John Ford's The Final Reflection? Owned owned owned. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 19:10
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egon_beeblebrox posted:I think it's time for Gary Seven to finally get his spin-off show. There's already a book series which features him pretty extensively (at least in the first volume which is all I've read of it)
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Oct 23, 2013 19:12
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Drone posted:Edit: McCoy just tried to explain why women love Spock, and basically said that loving an alien is "the white female crewmember's way of coming to terms with the racism and prejudices of their Anglo-American heritage." (slightly paraphrased) I think this is a pretty good read of how they handled Spock and romance, because every woman who was attracted to him in TOS was white as gently caress. In the Cloud Minders, Droxine is literally white privilege incarnate and instantly falls for him.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:14
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Thwomp posted:Camping and row-row-your-boat supremacy. Overall I find that DS9 is more of TOS's spiritual prodigy than TNG was.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:16
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a travelling HEGEL posted:I loving hate the JJ Abrams Trek. TOS supremacy, Romulan supremacy, books supremacy. a travelling HEGEL posted:On that note, did anyone else here like the Diane Duane Rihannsu novels? Those were pro as hell. 1st AD posted:In the Cloud Minders, Droxine is literally white privilege incarnate and instantly falls for him.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:17
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a travelling HEGEL posted:On that note, did anyone else here like the Diane Duane Rihannsu novels? Those were pro as hell. I always assumed they were awful, but I'll definitely add them to the list to check out if I decide to do this blog thing. For some reason I always lumped them together with the type of awful Vulcan/Romulan hyperpassionate softcore porn poo poo you see on fanfic sites. Lotta people obsessed with pon farr, stuff like that.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:18
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Drone posted:I always assumed they were awful, but I'll definitely add them to the list to check out if I decide to do this blog thing. For some reason I always lumped them together with the type of awful Vulcan/Romulan hyperpassionate softcore porn poo poo you see on fanfic sites. Lotta people obsessed with pon farr, stuff like that.  The first two are the originals, the ones after that are from years later when she was pressured to turn it into a series and they're not as good. Apple Jax posted:I loved them as a middle school kid but barely remember them now. Kinda curious if they still hold up, did you read them recently? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 19:23
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Monathin posted:apparently when I was young I would absolutely flip my poo poo over watching TNG (before I could talk, even, which surprised me.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vgpQrbLtlw
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Oct 23, 2013 19:23
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I would not be surprised if this was actually me, to be honest.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:27
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Drone posted:I always assumed they were awful, but I'll definitely add them to the list to check out if I decide to do this blog thing. For some reason I always lumped them together with the type of awful Vulcan/Romulan hyperpassionate softcore porn poo poo you see on fanfic sites. Lotta people obsessed with pon farr, stuff like that. Also there's a Horta on the Enterprise's crew. It owns.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:31
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Nessus posted:I only read "The Romulan Way" but it was a decent story interlaced with some fake history text stuff. It does make the Romulans sound all heroic and noble and poo poo, but the author of the fake history is a character in the book so you can see where the HISTORICAL BIAS comes from.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:33
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Christmas Present posted:Everything that stems from Roddenberry's vision was delightfully communist- not in the Marxist/Leninist sense, but in the sense that they deal with the usefulness of the Commons, the things we all share that ought not be owned by anyone. And I'd like to see that back in my Star Trek, some solid collectivist writing that's not afraid to be collectivist.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:34
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bobkatt013 posted:Galaxy Guest was a better Star Trek film then most of the Star Trek films. It was better than all TNG films and one of TOS films. Yeah, and I'm glad this movie is kind of obscure, because I get to watch it with people for the first time and see a big smile on their face.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:36
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Nessus posted:Also there's a Horta on the Enterprise's crew. It owns. 
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Oct 23, 2013 19:45
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What's great about the Star Trek EU is it's all non-canon so you can ignore it! The Star WARS EU is very much canon, and very awful. The Sun Crusher? Darksaber? Han Solo fighting a ferret? A guy with lightsabers on his knees? Chewbacca getting squished by a moon? That poo poo all happened. I remember finding an audiotape for Star Trek: the Genesis Wave for like $2, so I bought it, listened to it in the car, and it was like some terrible fanfiction someone had published. (I was like, "Oh, Picard and the gang find the Genesis device, this might be cool.") Geordi got together with Leah Brahms, who he had totally creeped the gently caress out earlier with his gross jerk-off holodeck fantasies of her. I also listened to the Return by Bill Shatner, and while extremely goofy and fanfic-ish, I can't help but love it as it was a bad fanfic written by Shatner himself and it totally makes sense in that regard. Almost all the Star Trek books I have are either the Technical Manuals or behind the scenes stuff. And a few comic books. I wonder if the current IDW comics are any good. I read some of their TOS stuff, and while not amazing are entertaining enough throwaway fiction. They made one that was a sequel to "The Enterprise Incident" and had Arix from TAS in it. Yes, I was just dissing a lot of Star Trek EU, but I'm a hypocrite because I like to imagine TAS as years 4 and 5 of the Enterprise's 5 year voyage. Speaking about 5 year voyages, one thing I didn't realize but is kind of mind blowing is the Enterprise had a SECOND 5 year voyage after TMP and before TWoK. What the gently caress happened then? Star Trek: Phase II, disco boogaloo? GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 19:48
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That would be Phase II, yeah. The Love Boat would satisfy your disco ship needs.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:54
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yes, I was just dissing a lot of Star Trek EU, but I'm a hypocrite because I like to imagine TAS as years 4 and 5 of the Enterprise's 5 year voyage.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:02
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I read the Q Continuum trilogy and was so disgusted I went back to my Tekwar books. Nah it was actually pretty interesting.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:15
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a travelling HEGEL posted:I thought TAS was officially canon? It is. I do not want to live in a world where Kirk did not face all those glorious batshit insane adventures.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:20
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Gammatron 64 posted:What's great about the Star Trek EU is it's all non-canon so you can 
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Oct 23, 2013 20:28
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a travelling HEGEL posted:I thought TAS was officially canon? I'm pretty sure it's not canon except for the episode "Yesteryear", but that could have just be Gene Roddenberry's opinion. Maybe they retroactively re-added it to canon or Gene's opinion never mattered in the first place.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:28
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Gammatron 64 posted:What's great about the Star Trek EU is it's all non-canon so you can ignore it! The Star WARS EU is very much canon, and very awful. The Sun Crusher? Darksaber? Han Solo fighting a ferret? A guy with lightsabers on his knees? Chewbacca getting squished by a moon? That poo poo all happened. Admiral Thrawn owned, and I will not hear any disagreement on this. The only Trek books I've read were one where Picard lets himself get reassimilated in order to blow up a Borg supercube (painfully bad), and the two or three that focus on Garak and Cardassia. Cardassian supremacy.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:35
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Ah yes, Admiral Thrawn, the shithead who analyzes art to gain insight about his enemies. Great writing there 
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Oct 23, 2013 20:37
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Gammatron 64 posted:Thanks! You know, it's funny, I didn't realize that boots are so expensive since I never buy them as I live in a place that never gets snow. I wonder if I can find something below $40 at the Halloween store. Hahah, yeah you're not going to find actual leather boots for the price-point you're looking at unless you strike gold at a yard-sale or something. Real leather boots are expensive, and the bigger the pieces of leather the more expensive they get. For reference the leather boots I'm wearing now I got on sale for $120, retail for $210, and this is the low end of the spectrum. From googling it looks like they used a whole lot of different boots in TOS, and especially early on most of the extras are wearing whatever black boots the Studio had on hand from other productions. While you might find something at a Halloween store (pirate or military themed boots might do the trick), Halloween costume stores generally suck and as far as cheap real shoes go you're probably not going to do much better than what Apple Jax linked.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:39
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Not sure if people are still talking about B5- but I think the arguement that it's too upbeat to be re-done for today's modern audience I pretty off the mark. First, I don't think there's a particular love affair with dark shows these days, so much as really engagning drama. While the execution was spotty, I think B5's overall story holds up as something interesting you could repeat and get people engaged with. Also B5 had some pretty dark moments- the bombing of Narn, The President ordering a military takeover of the Mars colony, the PsiCorps legally taking kids/people from their homes. Anyways if somehow they could do a reboot of B5 I'd hope they get the JJTrek Checkov kid to play the new Bester...
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Oct 23, 2013 20:40
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1st AD posted:Ah yes, Admiral Thrawn, the shithead who analyzes art to gain insight about his enemies. Great writing there And yet, still better written and more realistic than flying to the center of the galaxy to bring a spaceship to God. Or Nemesis.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:41
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No actually it was equally as bad, just for different reasons. Sorry you have bad taste.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:42
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1st AD posted:Ah yes, Admiral Thrawn, the shithead who analyzes art to gain insight about his enemies. Great writing there Yeah, that was goofy as hell. Granted, the Thrawn and X-Wing books are fun, but they're the only parts of the Star Wars EU I even like to acknowledge. I kind of feel like when a sci-fi writer's career is down the toilet and they have no shame, they just publish crappy Star Wars \ Star Trek fan fiction, or turn their D&D campaigns into mediocre high fantasy novels.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:42
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Edit: DeclaredYuppie posted:Not sure if people are still talking about B5- but I think the arguement that it's too upbeat to be re-done for today's modern audience I pretty off the mark. First, I don't think there's a particular love affair with dark shows these days, so much as really engagning drama. While the execution was spotty, I think B5's overall story holds up as something interesting you could repeat and get people engaged with. Also B5 had some pretty dark moments- the bombing of Narn, The President ordering a military takeover of the Mars colony, the PsiCorps legally taking kids/people from their homes. quote:Anyways if somehow they could do a reboot of B5 I'd hope they get the JJTrek Checkov kid to play the new Bester... Anyway, a B5 reboot shot and written like the BSG pilot/first season would ruuuuuuule. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 20:52
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a travelling HEGEL posted:A B5 reboot shot and written like the BSG pilot/first season would ruuuuuuule. The pilot and the first season are two vastly different looks though, the miniseries is shot conventionally on film and uses a lot of the language of classic cinema, whereas the series proper is all done on HD video cameras and is shot cinema verite style (except for anything Cylon-related in the later seasons). Personally I don't think the look of the series ages very well, and in HD there's a few things that don't quite hold up like the excessive amount of grain added to every shot.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:57
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Gammatron 64 posted:I'm pretty sure it's not canon except for the episode "Yesteryear", but that could have just be Gene Roddenberry's opinion. Maybe they retroactively re-added it to canon or Gene's opinion never mattered in the first place. Yeah, Star Trek canon is pretty dumb. Basically Roddenberry or his people controlled it for years and had very tight regulations over it. So none of the books (except his novelization of TMP which ironically was full of poo poo that's NOT canon today) were canon. None of the comics or games were canon. And none of TAS except Yesteryear was canon. And then he started getting out there and wanted to decanonize certain episodes or movies right before he died. This had the effect of making the books a godawful mess where poo poo would literally be contradicted in the next book or on a subsequent episode of TNG. It also meant the most interesting books which talked about future history like Federation or Diane Duane's Rihannisu books, and things that might change a character or give you insight into their past were meaningless. Which is one reason I dropped out of reading the novels for over 10 years. I understand why, as it was a lot to keep track of, but Star Trek fans basically invented continuity and it wouldn't have taken much to get one of us spergs to work for peanuts for Paramount and check scripts and novels for inconsistencies. A lot of it though was TV/Movie supremacy, where an almighty TV guy would be DAMMED if he had to alter a commissioned script over some pfft licensed tie in novel written 3 years ago. Can't have them shackled by continuity by God! Hell, they barely wanted to be shackled by the continuity of their own shows in those days. In fact, they were very skittish about referring to stuff from TOS and the movies in TNG because they weren't sure if they would be in the same continuity, and an almighty movie guy would be DAMMED if he had to alter a script for a tv show. Which is why a lot of tv shows based on movies are unrelated to the movie franchises they are based on. Things are a bit more organized today in Star Trek. I can't say the novels are canon, but the people writing them make a strong effort to have internal consistency and not contradict the shows or movies. And I think that's one reason they wisely put off writing novels set in the JJverse-it's so new and nobody knows where he's going with it that they didn't want to turn out some of the dire novels you get based off the early days of a tv/movie franchise. On the specific question of TAS, I'd say it's about as canon as you can get. You can't go by Memory Alpha, as they are not the official "keepers" of the franchise and will include stuff Paramount may not consider canon. But if you look at the database on https://www.startrek.com a cursory glance reveals entries on Captain/Commodore Robert April and Dr. Stavos Keniclius. So I'd venture to say the whole of TAS is canon, not just Yesteryear. Though note that Saavik is NOT listed as half Romulan there, so they are still keeping to filmed stuff. Just including animated in that.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:01
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1st AD posted:The pilot and the first season are two vastly different looks though, the miniseries is shot conventionally on film and uses a lot of the language of classic cinema, whereas the series proper is all done on HD video cameras and is shot cinema verite style (except for anything Cylon-related in the later seasons).
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