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papa_november posted:also whenever you hear a norwegian talk about this, it's as if they're all living in the 24th century and giving you, a wayward 21st century earth human, a Picard Speech. There were some good Picard speeches sure, but don't also forget they included such gems as "Don't save the child's life, doing so would make a guy I don't like smug" and "Sure we could save all these people but they don't have our technology level so gently caress them all, let's watch them burn!" So to be clear to truly become that, they will need to send some observers to watch the poors who lack
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Apr 21, 2016 18:23
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So for the people that think Breivik should be allowed to spend the rest of his life in a comfy cell, would you let him play your Xbone/PS4/Wii U?
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Apr 21, 2016 18:41
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it is hard to believe that some people aren't willing to give their government a mandate to kill and torture its own citizens, simply because there is not a single good reason to do so as far as crime deterrence goes.
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Apr 21, 2016 18:52
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I don't care if he has these things as a bad person, but I would like to have them as a good person.
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Apr 21, 2016 18:55
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Grandmother of Five posted:it is hard to believe that some people aren't willing to give their government a mandate to kill and torture its own citizens, simply because there is not a single good reason to do so as far as crime deterrence goes. shouldn't be the government, they should let the people decide. Have the criminals fight gladiators in an arena and when they fall they get to live only if the crowd cheers loud enough
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Apr 21, 2016 19:07
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So anyway, I'm Norwegian and back in 2010 I had to serve 4 months. I fought two guys in a drunk brawl and won. My price was a trip to Trøgstad for four months. This was my first offence so they sent me there because it's what is called open sentencing. Basically it's like being in the military only I sawed planks instead of running around and shooting guns. The prison was actually an old converted military base. There really were only three rules: Do what the guards tell you. When the bell rings three times a day meet up at your room or in the courtyard. Do your job. A normal day would consist of meeting in the courtyard, eating breakfast, sawing planks (not by hand obviously), eat lunch, saw more planks, eat dinner, faff about, eat an evening meal, watch Mythbusters and other crap and then go to bed. It's the most boring time I've ever had in life. Mostly I missed Internet, drinking and my friends. Other than that it was comfortable enough. You never had to worry about anything because all was provided. Kinda like being a kid at summer camp... who has to do hard labour. Most of the guys serving there were good people and I've made friends with two of them who I still hang out with. Also, the guards who worked there were all cool people who had specifically wanted a job at an easy going prison like this. On Saturdays we had movie night were one of the guys would show us the latest films he'd pirated. Breivik has way nicer accommodations than we did. The thought of having access to a Playstation 2 didn't even cross my mind. The closest I got to gaming in that time was on the library computer that still ran Windows 95 and had that pinball thing that came with it. My roomie was the librarian and let us gently caress around with it. We didn't have a TV in the room, only one in the communal room. We also had communal bathrooms and showers. Jerking off was a real hassle at times I tell yah. What we did have was mostly free roam of the prison after work and could spend as much time bullshiting and drinking crap coffee. That's something Breivik will never experience because they'll never let him into genpop. As peaceful as Norwegian prisons are, even in the closed ones, he'd get jumped in moments. This is the most hated man in our country. There are plenty of guys who'd willingly take a couple of extra months just to break his nose. The dude won't see the outside until he is a feeble old man and I'm glad of it. In closing, Norwegian prisons are pretty drat lax as long as you don't kill shitloads of kids, blow up bombs or do anything else really horrible.
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Apr 21, 2016 20:23
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Also, AFAIK the last time anyone was raped in a prison here was in 94. Some dude showed up and wanted to prove he was a hard man. He found a small guy who he dragged into a bathroom stall and had his way with him. He probably thought this was a brilliant strategy after watching American cinema. That was not accepted so he ended up in solitary because inmates kept beating the poo poo out of him.
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Apr 21, 2016 20:29
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Just a reminder the government can totally kill any of their citizens whenever they want Sovereignty, bitches
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Apr 21, 2016 22:56
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No I'm pretty sure they can't. There might be a bunch of old rules that let them do that... Can they legally kill Breifis?
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Apr 22, 2016 00:28
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Lodin posted:No I'm pretty sure they can't. We found a way to kill Quisling with current rules, that was a wartime thing tho probably. In like 20 years when Europe has regressed to pure Nazism we'll probably release ABB and give him his own castle with all the Playstation 23's he can eat until he has to fight MechaPutin and the Trump AI.
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Apr 22, 2016 00:44
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The thing about "well in THIS case there's absolutely no question" is sooner or later you're going to get a case where there's 'no question' but it later turns out there absolutely was a question, so it's a pretty bad precedent to set IMO.
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Apr 22, 2016 01:11
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Dave Concepcion posted:give him a fat girlfriend he has to watch 'girls' with You loving monster
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Apr 22, 2016 01:16
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Pick posted:for a while i lived in a place where the oven and the toilet were married, or at least they'd been living together the last 45 years it's hardly surprising that you lived with your parents
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Apr 22, 2016 01:35
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ArbitraryC posted:Yeah for sure, but who knows if that's more of a causation or correlation stat so that's kind of shaky. It's like pointing out how places that ban abortion tend to have higher abortion rates, obviously making it illegal doesn't magically generate mor unwanted pregnancies it's just sort of linked with a society that shits on women and makes abortion more desirable. I thought it had been pretty conclusively established that treating prisoners with human dignity equals substantially lower recidivism. reignonyourparade posted:The thing about "well in THIS case there's absolutely no question" is sooner or later you're going to get a case where there's 'no question' but it later turns out there absolutely was a question, so it's a pretty bad precedent to set IMO. Yeah, the problem is that people tend to form their opinions entirely around whatever happens to make the news. Never mind that in just about every country on the planet, people like this guy account for a minuscule percentage of overall homicide. Just look at the gun control debate in the US - everybody's talking about banning whatever rifle was used in the latest mass shooting, nobody seems to give a crap about the plethora of black market handguns available to anyone looking to launch their criminal career.
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Apr 22, 2016 03:10
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why is it so god drat hard to imagine a system where capital punishment is applied exclusively to those who perpetrate massacres?
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Apr 22, 2016 03:40
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If he somehow ends up killed by a pen stuck in his neck I'd celebrate it. But no, the Norwegian government can't kill him because then we are as bad as him.
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Apr 22, 2016 04:53
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Lodin posted:So anyway, I'm Norwegian and back in 2010 I had to serve 4 months. I fought two guys in a drunk brawl and won. My price was a trip to Trøgstad for four months. This was my first offence so they sent me there because it's what is called open sentencing. Basically it's like being in the military only I sawed planks instead of running around and shooting guns. The prison was actually an old converted military base. norway, where even their ex-cons have better english skills than many american college students
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Apr 22, 2016 05:12
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what kind of weed can he get in there?
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Apr 22, 2016 05:28
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drat, Norway sounds gay as hell!
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Apr 22, 2016 05:35
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Why doesn't everyone in Norway just kill 77 kids instead of working?
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Apr 22, 2016 05:46
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There is criminal and then there's supervillain even superman kills the supervillain 
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Apr 22, 2016 05:53
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Zzulu posted:There is criminal superman is dumb
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Apr 22, 2016 06:12
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Linux Pirate posted:Why doesn't everyone in Norway just kill 77 kids instead of working? Fun story, one of my roomies escaped. He took the mattress from his bed and pulled it all to the other side of the compound. He threw it on the barbed wire fence and then climbed over it. Then he spent most of a day wading through a marsh to get to the nearest town. This was during late summer but it still had to be cold as balls. He found his way home, broke into his own apartment and smoked a joint. Then he called the cops and they shipped him back to us. Meanwhile my parents sent me an Optimus Prime poster that I proudly hung on my wall. Good times.
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Apr 22, 2016 06:13
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Lodin posted:There's no beer and the channel selection sucks. lål
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Apr 22, 2016 06:16
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Du er en lål, din fisemink.
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Apr 22, 2016 06:19
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Melmac posted:I kind of agree with this. LMAO at this guy thinking he's actually "considering murdering someone". Yeah I could deal with the repercussions of murdering another person. This is just like choosing what cereal to buy! Hahahahaha
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Apr 22, 2016 06:22
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Lodin posted:Du er en lål, din fisemink. Haritsoppa. Jaak äär pöök.
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Apr 22, 2016 06:24
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Pick posted:for a while i lived in a place where the oven and the toilet were married, or at least they'd been living together the last 45 years oh did they actually make that legal over there? disgraceful
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Apr 22, 2016 06:32
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papa_november posted:why is it so god drat hard to imagine a system where capital punishment is applied exclusively to those who perpetrate massacres? Because life isn't that simple you loving nitwit.
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Apr 22, 2016 06:32
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papa_november posted:why is it so god drat hard to imagine a system where capital punishment is applied exclusively to those who perpetrate massacres? It's still conceivable to have a fall guy or hell, maybe a white nationalist terrorist will turn out to have white nationalist terrorist buddies who commit their OWN acts and it'll be useful to be able to find out where their white nationalist bunker is, the general point is you can't UNKILL a dude and there are enough conceivable circumstances where you'd want to that even the "masacre-ers only" capital punishment doesn't do anything USEFUL so the admittedly out there circumstances where you'd regret it are enough to make it a bad idea.
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Apr 22, 2016 06:47
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in that scenario, if your only hope of finding said potential other terror cell members is the guy somehow flipping within anything resembling a useful time frame then you're right hosed no matter what
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Apr 22, 2016 07:04
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reignonyourparade posted:It's still conceivable to have a fall guy or hell, maybe a white nationalist terrorist will turn out to have white nationalist terrorist buddies who commit their OWN acts and it'll be useful to be able to find out where their white nationalist bunker is, the general point is you can't UNKILL a dude and there are enough conceivable circumstances where you'd want to that even the "masacre-ers only" capital punishment doesn't do anything USEFUL so the admittedly out there circumstances where you'd regret it are enough to make it a bad idea. Also, Hogge Wild is a flatulent mink of the worst sort.
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Apr 22, 2016 07:13
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papa_november posted:in that scenario, if your only hope of finding said potential other terror cell members is the guy somehow flipping within anything resembling a useful time frame then you're right hosed no matter what Why can't I kill people, come on guys just this one, I won't do it to anyone else I promise.
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Apr 22, 2016 07:15
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I'm gonna go all realpolitik here for a second and say that while I am Against the Death Penalty, in this case, where a man armed himself, stalked a resort island, and killed over 70 children--where literally none of this is in doubt, including his admitting the crime, motivation, and detailed manifesto--it'd be cool to just shoot him in the back of the head execution style and be done with it. I honestly don't see it as vengeance really nor escaping the rule of law. He's been duly convicted of the crime, there is absolutely no doubt about anything, and it's so egregious on its face that there is no redemption possible*, just put a bullet in his head, have a funeral, and be done with it. *I think this is the part people may disagree with, which I can respect. Again, I just don't care because the case is so extraordinary, and don't give me that slippery slope bullshit either, idgaf about your dumbass future hypothetical, i'm talkin about the real, now, thing that has actually happened. I'll leave the future to soothsayers and glenn beck
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Apr 22, 2016 07:15
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Lodin posted:There's also the part where the Norwegian government doesn't want Breifis to turn into a martyr after his murder. this on the other hand I would buy completely
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Apr 22, 2016 07:16
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i'd like to preface this by stating that i'm against the death penalty; i'm for the death penalty
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Apr 22, 2016 07:36
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I agree, we should make it so rules don't apply to people we don't like. This way when the government decides to repeatedly call the democratically elected opposition terrorists and claim terrorists with british citizenship don't have human rights anymore and extrajudially kill them there is nothing we should be worried about. Also, did Brevik get his taint reaped in the end or does that count as cruel and unusual punishment?
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Apr 22, 2016 07:42
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what the hell does any of that have to do with a man hunting down 70 children at a summer camp? democratically elected opposition, the gently caress are you talking about
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Apr 22, 2016 07:48
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rabble rabble posted:what the hell does any of that have to do with a man hunting down 70 children at a summer camp? democratically elected opposition, the gently caress are you talking about the issue is that's it's not a remote hypothetical that this would slide to affecting other potentially innocent people, it's straight up guaranteed. A society and culture that would support such an option would certainly support other stuff you disagree with. The idea that all of society could agree on doing such a thing just this once is as magical thinking as any other argument. You need to have people so lenient that they're even willing to treat a dude this horrible humanely to have a justice system that's significantly more reasonable when it comes to more average crimes. It's not that I disagree with your premise that in certain niche cases there's not really a whole lot of a reason not to just execute them and be done with it, it's just that humans are humans and you need to make that kind of response completely unacceptable and extreme otherwise you're going to shift how the public views the justice system in general. There's basically a range of acceptable ideas and morality and you do not want executing people we don't like to be in it because that means the average of that range is close enough to "killing people we don't like is okay" to make it a permissible thing to do. You can't just look at this one case in a vacuum, that's simply not how society functions.
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Apr 22, 2016 08:27
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reignonyourparade posted:The thing about "well in THIS case there's absolutely no question" is sooner or later you're going to get a case where there's 'no question' but it later turns out there absolutely was a question, so it's a pretty bad precedent to set IMO. ahh yes, the slippery slope.
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Apr 22, 2016 08:35
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