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OwlFancier posted:The UK covered a whole bunch of salaries while people couldn't work for months. Isnt that handled in the US by unemployment, though? Its more generous than the US unemployment scheme but its different than this which is giving money to everyone regardless of employment status.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:46
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You can work somewhere else if you can find it, and you still get the furlough money. You just can't work for the company that has furloughed you. So it's far more generous than UK JSA and also isn't contingent on you not working or looking for work. Certainly it should be just a UBI, but given the main alleged point of the stimulus checks is to help people who are facing massive unemployment I would suggest it constitutes "handing out cash"
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Feb 2, 2021 21:53
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The relief bill, as has been mentioned many times, also includes about $1700 a month ($400/wk) in payments to people who are on unemployment assistance (and yes, this is a somewhat different category from "people who don't have a job because of the pandemic"), to be given on top of state unemployment benefits (which in some states, particularly Florida, is pretty much "lol nothing gently caress off", but is ok in some states). Some people could end up doing about as well or maybe slightly better than 2500 pounds/month, but as is often the case with assistance in the US, it doesn't get to everybody who actually needs it, and can be hosed with by vindictive state governments.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:54
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OwlFancier posted:You can work somewhere else if you can find it, and you still get the furlough money. You just can't work for the company that has furloughed you. Right, but I mean, its handing out cash to people who have been furloughed. I'm not saying it isn't a good program. It obviously is. But its different from what I'm asking, which is what governments are doing UBI or general cash transfers to the population as a response to COVID?
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Feb 2, 2021 21:59
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Mellow Seas posted:The relief bill, as has been mentioned many times, also includes about $1700 a month ($400/wk) in payments to people who are on unemployment assistance (and yes, this is a somewhat different category from "people who don't have a job because of the pandemic"), to be given on top of state unemployment benefits (which in some states, particularly Florida, is pretty much "lol nothing gently caress off", but is ok in some states). Any benefit to Floridians is completely destroyed by our inability to even access the DOE website to beg for the scraps. In the year since the pandemic started and the DOE site garnered national headlines, nothing has changed. Not a god damned thing. Well, no, that's inaccurate - they tried and failed to roll out a second, mobile-optimized site that as best as I can tell doesn't even exist anymore, and they added a lovely little Javascript waiting room to the desktop site so you have a little man walking across a progress bar to stare at for 3 hours while your phone rings off the hook with calls from bill collectors from memorial hospital because the surgeon didn't call and ask permission to do surgery when I came in after a seizure and a massively broken shoulder resulting from the seizure thrashing and is it really going to break the entire economy if I get $2600 *wink wink* instead of $2000 *wink wink*? I'm sure the unemployment assistance will help some, but the rest of us still need our direct loving payout of two thousand loving dollars
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Feb 2, 2021 22:04
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I haven't received any stimulus money and am now expected to file for the tax credit in 2021 in order to have a shot at what everyone else received. Though the onus of the $1800 still in escrow was originally laid upon the Trump administration, it is now up to the Biden administration and his IRS to ensure that I get what I have yet to see. That being said, it was thoroughly stated to be $2000 in and throughout the Georgia elections, and it is particularly rude to pull one over on Atlanta and tell everyone that the reduced amount was what they were voting for. Or any reduced amount as the terms of the relief change.
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Feb 2, 2021 22:20
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Epicurius posted:Just a question, because I'm curious. What countries have given out cash handouts to the population as part of their covid response, and how much have they given out? Canada. Had the cerb 2000 a month. It was for people who's income was interrupted, but it was on basically the honour system. You just filled in a web form and got approved instantly.
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Feb 3, 2021 02:08
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Mellow Seas posted:The relief bill, as has been mentioned many times, also includes about $1700 a month ($400/wk) in payments to people who are on unemployment assistance (and yes, this is a somewhat different category from "people who don't have a job because of the pandemic"), to be given on top of state unemployment benefits (which in some states, particularly Florida, is pretty much "lol nothing gently caress off", but is ok in some states). And none of that would be as effective or simple as just direct payouts "Hey they're doing more! It's still not enough but it's more!" isn't a cognizant argument nor a point in their favor.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:01
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ianmacdo posted:Canada. a lot of people filled it out that didnt technically qualify but probably really needed it and now the govt is trying to claw a bunch of it back and is getting poo poo on for it which was always the loving obvious outcome for that system. mindboggling that people think Liberals or Democrats are anything but insanely bad at politics is there any cogent argument that $2000 or $3000 instead of $1400 would cost the democrats votes in 2 or 4 years? at all? edit: for americans who dont know, cerb required that you had filed a tax return for at least $5,000 of taxable income in 2019 or would do so in 2020 or they would gently caress you for not earning enough and thus not having anything to lose Verviticus fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 03:12
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ianmacdo posted:Canada. Can confirm. Miss X amount of work, check the boxes on the form, 2k deposited the next day. Initially, the eligibility requirements were screwed up so if you had a certain hourly rate and missed a specific number of days you could receive a larger benefit than the pay you actually lost (this happened to me and many others, I hope they don't screw us out of the extra two hundy). It was initially $2000 every two weeks Anyway, if you got in on the ground floor you could have collected like 15 grand by now.  e. I don't remember if you could initially apply twice in a month for 4k. Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 03:27
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So, I did some of my own research, and so far, I've come up with one country that maybe fits. Spain is doing a UBI for the duration of Covid with really severe means testing. The second that comes. Lose is Kenya, which, in 2018, started a pilot program of UBI in two provinces. It wasn't because of COVID, but they're doing better than the rest of the country.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:33
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:And none of that would be as effective or simple as just direct payouts Wait, like, what kind of direct payouts are you talking about here? I have a feeling it’s something other than the topic of this thread, but I that wanna make sure, because it seems like you’re arguing against expanding UI benefits, and that’s probably not what you intended.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:33
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https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1356731365862100999
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Feb 3, 2021 03:37
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VitalSigns posted:But if it's minor and no one really cares, why do I need to "be careful" with this thinking, if I'm wrong and no one really cares then there's no downside to my being concerned, but if I'm right it's a huge problem and the people dismissing the complaints are making a critical mistake...so maybe it is you who should be careful with your line of thinking? The Dems should be observant and mindful of what the normie voters are thinking so that they know how to react. They shouldn't just presume they are either pleased or furious and operate with that presumption alone. - Get the 14+6 - Start demanding more - Pressure Manchin in WV and Sinema in AZ to reform/kill the filibuster if the GOP doesn't agree to more checks - Say "Look at all the $ we're giving you isn't it great please vote for us in '22!" Seems like the obvious play for Dems whether their voters are mad or not, but knowing whether or not they are actually mad would influence they way they institute all these steps.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:42
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Not looking to argue the merits here, just for informational purposes, it looks like there are some distinctions with what’s in that article and the 1200 sent out early last year: quote:Tax filers with adjusted gross income up to $75,000 for individuals and up to $150,000 for married couples filing joint returns will receive the full payment. For filers with income above those amounts, the payment amount is reduced by $5 for each $100 above the $75,000/$150,000 thresholds. Single filers with income exceeding $99,000 and $198,000 for joint filers with no children are not eligible. Social Security recipients and railroad retirees who are otherwise not required to file a tax return are also eligible and will not be required to file a return. The most noticeable difference is in the payout per child, the one from last year being smaller from the current alleged discussion.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:49
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Verviticus posted:a lot of people filled it out that didnt technically qualify but probably really needed it and now the govt is trying to claw a bunch of it back and is getting poo poo on for it which was always the loving obvious outcome for that system. mindboggling that people think Liberals or Democrats are anything but insanely bad at politics It's just loving incredible, they'll rain cash on oil companies and defense contractors, let pallets of money fall of C-130s in Iraq, all without a second thought, but if one lower middle class family gets a dollar that liberal democrats don't think they're poor enough to deserve they come down on them and start squeezing blood from that stone
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Feb 3, 2021 03:55
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Here comes that austerity Democrats are known for! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 3, 2021 04:57
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Glad to know people who live in high-cost states where salaries are naturally higher to cover the cost of living (If I lived in Ohio I'd get pay 20k less easy, but everything would cost 50% less include houses), are going to get screwed over by Dems and Republicans playing "compromise". Dems must really think since they won in '20, '22 is assured or something.
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Feb 3, 2021 14:26
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600 + 1400x0 + bailout of Wall Street/number of people getting no check = 2000
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Feb 3, 2021 17:08
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https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1356984103959203843 A lot of people making $[whatever the final cutoff ends up being] are going to be quite surprised when they don't get a check.
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Feb 3, 2021 17:15
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In the end there will be a televised event where Biden presents a giant $1400 check to a single man from Wisconsin.
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Feb 3, 2021 20:46
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well that's better than nothing, that's more than the Republicans would have done, you ought to be grateful, technically he never said exactly how many checks and the guy got one novelty check plus one real check so that justifies the plural, etc
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Feb 3, 2021 22:22
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Verviticus posted:is there any cogent argument that $2000 or $3000 instead of $1400 would cost the democrats votes in 2 or 4 years? at all? Seems very unlikely. As of two weeks ago, 74% of Americans including 88% of Democrats, 57% of Republicans, and majorities of every demographic crosstab provided in the poll, supported "$2000 COVID-19 relief checks for Americans." 
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Feb 3, 2021 22:28
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Lester Shy posted:https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1356984103959203843 Delivering $1400 checks in order to not break my promise of delivering $2000 checks.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:11
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Setting aside my other arguments, if we're adjusting the income guidelines (or even discussing adjusting the income guidelines) that's a pretty transparent admission, to me, that these are new, separate checks from the previous $600. The $600 could only have been a "deposit" on the $2000 if the $1400 made whole every $600 check disbursed previously. The fact that this is even up for discussion at this point reveals the "$2000 check" lie pretty clearly, no? Like clearly even given every ounce of good faith interpretation possible, we're way beyond amending the December bill and well into what was described in the first half of January which is another round of checks, which were promised to be $2000, and then reduced to $1400 before any negotiation occurred.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:31
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Even if they don't go through with it even considering it is incredibly stupid (and ungodly stupid to admit you're mulling it).
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Feb 3, 2021 23:32
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Shere posted:Setting aside my other arguments, if we're adjusting the income guidelines (or even discussing adjusting the income guidelines) that's a pretty transparent admission, to me, that these are new, separate checks from the previous $600. The 600 (and the 1200 before it) were reduced starting at 75K. So, a lot of folks didn’t receive the full amount in those two instances, if anything at all. Not saying it shouldn’t just be the full 2K this time, just pointing out it’s not like everyone got 600.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:38
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generic one posted:The 600 (and the 1200 before it) were reduced starting at 75K. So, a lot of folks didn’t receive the full amount in those two instances, if anything at all. I'm well aware of this, and my point is if we're admitting that this $1400 check is going to be on a separate scale from the $600 it's supposedly making whole, it kind of throws out all of the "they're meant to be combined together $600 + $1400 = $2000" arguments I've endured the last month. This transparent pedantry is, again, ignoring the absolute asinine concept of means testing a survival check based off of an income that was reported before the event that triggered the need for the checks. And means testing in general. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 00:43
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Ytlaya posted:In the end there will be a televised event where Biden presents a giant $1400 check to a single man from Wisconsin. everyone in the country will get a scrap of a single comically large 1400 dollar check that is not actually redeemable or legal tender
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Feb 4, 2021 00:59
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's also just such a loving own goal. Pushing it to 2k, while not actually enough to help cover what the average American has needed the past year, would at least like....not have you look like liars and/incomepetants and would cost them nothing. It's insane that they would even consider doing what they've done. Theres no reason for it other than to just try and get away with doing as little as possible. *Even if you believe everyone assumed that meant $1400 bonus, are you really willing to bet losing a single solitary vote on it? If so, why?? Sure people may forget all of this by 2022, be just an enthusiastic/not dead without it, and Republicans may not bring it up, but why loving risk any of that with the Congressional margins so close?
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Feb 4, 2021 01:03
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Shere posted:I'm well aware of this, and my point is if we're admitting that this $1400 check is going to be on a separate scale from the $600 it's supposedly making whole, it kind of throws out all of the "they're meant to be combined together $600 + $1400 = $2000" arguments I've endured the last month. Is it on a separate scale? I don’t think we know that yet. If anything, I’m guessing it would be on the same scale, but all of this is kind of speculation at this point. At this point it’s just as likely it’ll be means tested as it won’t. That said, I agree, means testing is pretty loving stupid. I got a check in the mail for less than $200 for the first round of $1200 payments, which I promptly donated to RAICES. If it hadn’t been means tested, I probably would have spent a lot of it on ice cream and beer from some local businesses in addition to charity. Still haven’t seen a dime from the $600 round of payments.
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Feb 4, 2021 01:06
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Zero_Grade posted:
To own the libs
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Feb 4, 2021 01:29
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Can you imagine this much handwringing over $1200 during a pandemic from a country that has a GDP of $21 trillion dollars? I don't think you could write darker comedy than that.
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Feb 4, 2021 01:36
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Aren't these checks meant to stimulate the economy? I mean, from a purely cynical partisan standpoint, wouldn't the Dems want these checks to be as big and easy to get as possible in order to juice the numbers for Biden/2022? Getting too precious about means testing is going to end up biting them in the rear end. Edit: Basically this: https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/1357041855456763905 Lester Shy fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 01:43
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Gadfly posted:Can you imagine this much handwringing over $1200 during a pandemic from a country that has a GDP of $21 trillion dollars? I don't think you could write darker comedy than that. Jeff Bezos’s pile of gold could send a check for $550 to every person in the US, and he’d still have almost two billion left.
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Feb 4, 2021 01:46
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Exactly the sort of chickenshit games you want to be playing with people who desperately need assistance and you promised "$2000 checks" in exchange for handing you control of the senate. https://twitter.com/JHWeissmann/status/1357372594605993984
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Feb 4, 2021 18:02
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Get your taxes filed as soon as possible!* * Unless you're waiting on some documents you won't see until March. Then it seems you're out of luck, sorry! Just send everyone the checks and spend the rest of 2021 figuring out how to reconcile during next year's tax return season. This doesn't seem terribly complicated, but then again I'm not a politician.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:49
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Get your taxes filed as soon as possible!** ** Starting February 12th because the IRS isn't accepting returns until them
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Feb 4, 2021 20:07
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Not sure if it should be surprising that what we're getting from Biden's presidency is that Biden himself is not as bad as expected, but Schumer and Pelosi are even worse
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Feb 4, 2021 21:21
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https://twitter.com/hshaban/status/1357328552358776838 please tell me again how this isn't austerity politics
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Feb 4, 2021 22:16
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