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Oh wow, if this game gets an actual team working on it, giving it new(substantial) content, adding a Foundry, fixing all the busted poo poo, CO could actually be a good game at long last.  I guess I'll have to keep an eye on it again.
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Jun 22, 2013 04:42
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Look about 6-7 posts up to see the latest info. My suspicion may be wrong, but it sounds like something good IS actually happening. 
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Jun 22, 2013 05:31
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Brave New World posted:Look about 6-7 posts up to see the latest info. My suspicion may be wrong, but it sounds like something good IS actually happening. Well they are finally doing a review of Telepathy. Which, I guess, is a good sign of life. I don't have any hopes of what Kelp Plankton mentioned happening anytime soon (content and whatnot DOES take time to implement), but hopefully they'll have something to show for it this time next year as opposed to the whole bunch of not much they've done since last year.
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Jun 22, 2013 20:00
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Has anyone done the Nighthawk event? A friend and I just tried to do it, and the last part, apprehending Frank Stone, seems ridiculous. We had like 6 or 7 people in the group instance, and we were all attacking his big jet, and his health bar wasn't even dinged by the end of the timer. And he was killing us nearly instantly. After a while I started trying to figure out the gimmick that would let us damage him or something but it seems like it's just busted.
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Jun 22, 2013 20:03
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a big fat bunny posted:Well they are finally doing a review of Telepathy. Which, I guess, is a good sign of life. I don't have any hopes of what Kelp Plankton mentioned happening anytime soon (content and whatnot DOES take time to implement), but hopefully they'll have something to show for it this time next year as opposed to the whole bunch of not much they've done since last year. Yeah, anything they're doing is going to take time. But considering how long CO's been in a poo poo state by now, anything they do should help. I imagine their plan will be to give it a major expansion and some sort of overall 'relaunch', like Cryptic did with STO(more than once) to pretty great results. Hell, if they decide to do something on the scale of that Romulan expansion over in STO, we might see playable villains or something. Not that I'd get my hopes up for it. But it would certainly be nice, now that CoH is gone. They need to fix the core game first, though. Make more build types viable. Take a look at a lot of underlying mechanics instead of just tweaking powersets one by one to be more effective- shift some underlying stuff, make Control/Debuff/Support a more viable role so everyone isn't just a DPS-Tank all the time.
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Jun 22, 2013 23:06
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Yeah, honestly if I were suddenly put in charge of ChampO right now I'd have the staff sit down and take a loooong look at the powersets. Each powerset (and importantly, each Archetype) really, really needs to have a good single target attack, a good cone/PBAOE attack with no cooldown, and a decent passive/toggle by the time they hit level ~12-15 just for mere basic competence. It's a lot easier to play with things like buffs/debuffs/control once every set is capable of handling basic gameplay on their own. Most sets are kind of at this point these days, but there's some that aren't, and a bunch that are still kind of awkward and don't really have good synergy between their powers either. Cross-set synergy's another thing that needs to be looked at too, even if that's harder to do right. Granted I'd also drop Archetypes entirely, give everyone freeform slots, but only give a few of powersets free (might, fire, sorcery, one of the martial arts, another one or two) and make F2P people buy the rest... which has the same benefit of archetypes except is a lot more appealing, since every purchase means that many more powers you could mix and match, and opens up more motivation for paid respecs and other fundraising too. Unfortunately that ship's long since sailed.
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Jun 22, 2013 23:17
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quote:Granted I'd also drop Archetypes entirely, give everyone freeform slots, but only give a few of powersets free (might, fire, sorcery, one of the martial arts, another one or two) and make F2P people buy the rest... This is what should've been done when they went free to begin with. And regarding powersets, if it was me I'd make sure every set had: - ranged attacks - melee attacks, except for things like Archery where that probably wouldn't make much sense - some kind of support powers - passives to support both plus a defensive passive, and give the archetypes a choice of all of them. Mostly, I just miss my elemental melee characters from CoH.
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Jun 23, 2013 03:19
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Asimo posted:Granted I'd also drop Archetypes entirely, give everyone freeform slots, but only give a few of powersets free (might, fire, sorcery, one of the martial arts, another one or two) and make F2P people buy the rest... which has the same benefit of archetypes except is a lot more appealing, since every purchase means that many more powers you could mix and match, and opens up more motivation for paid respecs and other fundraising too. Unfortunately that ship's long since sailed. I stand by the idea of giving free players the powersets that the free Archetypes are derived from. That's a nice selection, covers almost everything you'd conceptually and mechanically need. You aren't really hosed out of being useful or conceptually fitting your powers then; you might not have all the powers you'd want, there's almost definitely some juicy stuff behind the paywall that you'd like, but you aren't missing anything vital.
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Jun 23, 2013 03:20
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Cleretic posted:I stand by the idea of giving free players the powersets that the free Archetypes are derived from. That's a nice selection, covers almost everything you'd conceptually and mechanically need. You aren't really hosed out of being useful or conceptually fitting your powers then; you might not have all the powers you'd want, there's almost definitely some juicy stuff behind the paywall that you'd like, but you aren't missing anything vital. But sadly it's probably too late to change it now. Though I have to wonder if the dumb decision was due to Atari breathing down their neck, especially comparing how they handled ChampO's F2P transition versus STO's transition and NWO's launch. *Okay, most of it was the lack of content/development.
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Jun 23, 2013 03:32
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It's still kind of funny to me that Cryptic managed to hit both ends of the 'how not to do subscriptions in a F2P game' spectrum. In STO, the subscription is almost entirely worthless because everything you get from it you could buy with zen instead, and you can get zen via the exchange ingame without paying a cent. Meanwhile, CO isn't really worth playing at all without the subscription because archetypes are just so terrible compared to freeform. What amuses me even more though is that neither situation seems to be a problem at all in the eyes of whoever calls the shots at Cryptic.
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Jun 23, 2013 17:01
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STO could be the worst game (and very nearly is) and still sell subscriptions because that's how you get maximum Star Trek.
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Jun 23, 2013 17:04
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General Maximus posted:It's still kind of funny to me that Cryptic managed to hit both ends of the 'how not to do subscriptions in a F2P game' spectrum. In STO, the subscription is almost entirely worthless because everything you get from it you could buy with zen instead, and you can get zen via the exchange ingame without paying a cent. Meanwhile, CO isn't really worth playing at all without the subscription because archetypes are just so terrible compared to freeform. The way it is, CO is just... odd. FTP archetypes give you so little choice in character development that the game can barely be called an RPG. But, it's so easy that there's no point in getting freeform to optimize your character. (you can't freeform in PvP, right?) Honestly, this is the perfect setup to drive both free and paying users away.
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Jun 23, 2013 19:23
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Yeah, there's definitely something wrong with the challenge in CO. COH had it just right with the difficulty slider and the XP debt function and stuff. In CO, not only is it almost impossible to lose even on higher challenge levels (excepting the very rare encounter that seems impossible to win), there's no reason to be anything but a DPS tank, and there's basically no penalty for dying (which I'm hesitant to call a problem, because even XP debt was a bit much, but CO has stars, which don't matter at all).
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Jun 23, 2013 22:34
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That's mostly why I'm hoping they make Control/Debuff/Buff it's own actually viable combat role, it would let them make combat more globally interesting if stuff like that genuinely mattered and affected combat, rather than everyone just mashing their highest DPS AOE over and over forever. There's a groundwork laid in this game that can be changed to be much more interesting without throwing anything away, as long as the team has the time and resources to put the effort in to do it. I'd like to come play CO again, but I don't want to make a 3rd DPS/Tank character. Two lv40s that play the same are enough(one is ranged and one is melee but i can barely notice a difference). Once some other stuff is viable, I'll be all over this game.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:03
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Kelp Plankton posted:That's mostly why I'm hoping they make Control/Debuff/Buff it's own actually viable combat role, it would let them make combat more globally interesting if stuff like that genuinely mattered and affected combat, rather than everyone just mashing their highest DPS AOE over and over forever. Buff/debuff only matters on a team. CO is super easy, so no one teams except for the instants, so buff/debuff is no-go. They could add more content with forced teaming, but then people would scream "OMG forced teaming!!!!1"
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Jun 24, 2013 03:38
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When I used to play forever ago I only ever got the feeling that they had this really neat idea and came up with a cool character creator but didn't know what the hell to do about the whole 'game' part of the whole MMO deal.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:41
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Gynovore posted:Buff/debuff only matters on a team. CO is super easy, so no one teams except for the instants, so buff/debuff is no-go. There are ways to make that stuff viable for solo players, though. And really, the Control stuff is what I want most. Locking down enemies and finishing them off at your leisure, stunning or holding bosses long enough for your team or pets to kill them without much trouble. That kind of thing. This stuff can work solo, City of Heroes had classes that did it well(Controlers, Masterminds, Defenders, Corruptors, Dominators) and Champion's equivilant power sets to those all kind of suck. CO is just not a game where control is viable- partially because enemies die so easy, but partially because any 'control' power feels like it does jack poo poo to any enemy, minion or boss. I know this isn't CoH, and I'm not asking for them to change it into that, but they need more viable build types than just DPS-Tanks. Anything would be great. I don't want forced teaming, but it'd be nice to have some sort of incentive to bring anyone along at some point.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:51
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Interesting that STO has similar problems-Science is very much ineffective. Then again, all games with control/support fall prey to this-they want it to be balanced(Because otherwise it'd be 'too easy'), especially against people if there's any kind of PvP(because losing control sucks, after all), and in the process it always ends up being supremely ineffective vs monsters OR people. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 04:54
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When I first tried out DCUO, I stopped once I realized that, no. I wasn't screwing up my attacks and powers against enemies using charge up attacks with big obvious skull symbols over their head similar to Champions. I had to dig up the problem unlisted in game from a forums post made by a player. Because when something is specifically labeled to interrupt a charge attack, then of course enemies using charge attacks would be completely immune to it  Maybe that has since changed with the combat tweakes since I last gave it a shot, who knows.In city, while there were plenty of Controller/Dominator setups that could become a rolling force of death even without set bonuses, my Earth/Sonic probably fell into 'how to balance Controllers'. I loved the results of all my control toys, and I loved the easy low maintenance buffs I could put out. But good lord would I have wanted to kill myself trying to solo with my damage output up until my Animate Stone summon, and even then that just made it decent. Completely safe most of the time, able to shut down entire mobs or even entire rooms full of enemies. But slooooooow in actually murdering things yourself.
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Jun 24, 2013 08:12
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Bloodly posted:Interesting that STO has similar problems-Science is very much ineffective. Because powers having one effect in pve and a different effect in pvp is confusing, right guys? That's generally what gets said when someone suggests that incredibly obvious solution to this problem, at least. But really, the major problem with control powers is that all of them break with damage and anything you'd actually want to control is outright immune to it. Supervillains and higher, with the exception of the Nemesis not being immune to knockback. Which would be sort of fine if they lasted upwards of a minute (See also: polymorph in WoW, almost any sleep power in CoH) but they don't, even the best control power lasts all of ten seconds at the absolute most which is pathetic. Personally I think the current system needs to be for pvp and hard pve targets (The aforementioned supervillains and above) while for everything else, the whole break on damage thing needs to be thrown out and durations increased across the board. Which of course necessitates adjusting enemy difficulties to compensate, such that taking one or two guys out of the fight becomes actually useful. Which has the added effect of giving the game some actual challenge otherwise rather than the current setup of blowing away whole spawns in one shot for zero damage in return. Offensive passives might need to be buffed as well, so that the glass cannon blaster builds are still capable of killing things before faceplanting - personally I'd give ranged offensive passives a straight damage buff, while melee I'd give a smaller damage buff and a defensive buff as well. So the melee passives become sort of hybrid passives. On a slightly related note, anyone else notice how most of the time when a mob uses control on you it lasts for loving ever? But if you even with the best build possible to support it use the same control power on them it'll last a few seconds at most. Also: Every other mob in the game spamming knockback with every attack sucks balls in a game where characters being immune to knockback isn't a thing. Probably the biggest problem with melee in this game, absolutely loving everything does pbaoe knockback or knockdown with something so you spend half the fight on your rear end while the ranged players stand there blasting away laughing at you and doing more damage than you would even if you weren't flopping around on the ground so much.
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Jun 24, 2013 15:21
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So after my CoX pangs got too much I decided to take a risk and sub for a month to see if Freeform really is that much better then Archetypes. And holy crap what a difference. I can now ditch obviously-poo poo powers for good ones and no longer feel underpowered. Citizen Biff will once again terrorize criminals everywhere  Of course, it helps that I've stopped trying to play the game in a similar fashion to CoX, where running out of energy was a death sentence, and just happily spamming powerful attacks and then pummelling the energy back.
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Jul 1, 2013 16:22
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MadJackMcJack posted:Of course, it helps that I've stopped trying to play the game in a similar fashion to CoX I've seen so much talk about CoH/V gameplay and how it compares to CO gameplay on Zone chat. The two couldn't be any more different. Really, you shouldn't approach anything in CO as how you would approach anything in CoH/V. Just think of it as a completely different beast that happens to wear spandex as well.
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Jul 2, 2013 04:58
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MadJackMcJack posted:So after my CoX pangs got too much I decided to take a risk and sub for a month to see if Freeform really is that much better then Archetypes. And holy crap what a difference. I can now ditch obviously-poo poo powers for good ones and no longer feel underpowered. Citizen Biff will once again terrorize criminals everywhere And Archetypes were the worst decision ever made with this game, but it was Cryptic's first F2P effort and they were probably being way too conservative. Sadly.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:08
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Asimo posted:Yeah. ChampO is a hugely different game from CoH, where the only time you should be using your basic power is generally when you have no energy left to throw something else... and even then you'll only be out of energy for a seconmd or two. From what I understood, they were really desperate and listened to exactly the wrong people: That is, the hardcore continuing subscribers that would be subscribing anyway, that had a vested interest in enforcing a 'gently caress You Got Mine' F2P structure. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 05:21
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It's a shame that it turned out the way it did, because games like The Secret World are showing how they can do pretty well with a 'subscribe to get monthly points' system. Then again, it also costs a little money to get the game itself and TSW can get people to invest in the new mission packs because their writing is top-notch if nothing else.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:24
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TSW is strange, because its almost a waste to subscribe instead.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:26
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Yeah, it's odd but I guess it works for them.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:28
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Was playing some Marvel Heroes the other day and got to longing for City of Heroes. Since it's dead, the next best thing is Champions Online I guess, so I rolled a character (I'm F2P, so I did a Radiant named The Eurozone, a blue-and-gold Eurotrash twink monstrosity). Anyway, I was queueing for the Red Winter events and checking out pubbie profiles in Ren City:
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Jul 7, 2013 16:31
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I wonder who her nemesis is? The dastardly "Blue Balls"?  To be serious though, is that the only sort of player left playing this game nowadays? Last I checked, most people were waiting for them to start developing more content before playing again. Shame too, since like you said, this game is really the only decent replacement for the CoH crowd. DCUO is a bit too far off in gameplay and customization to work as a replacement game. Edit: A quick check of their website says that they've adopted GW2's "Living Story" idea of temporary content updates. Albeit replaying some of them in the future. What a stupid move. Archonex fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 7, 2013 |
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Jul 7, 2013 21:00
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Yeah that's a major problem GW2 has with their content updates. They want to give off the illusion of "a living world" but they don't realize that something like that also means that content... stays. The world isn't always just coming and going, sometimes people stick around for a while. The other major problem GW2 has with their content updates is that they're terrible.
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Jul 7, 2013 23:05
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I suspect it's more that things like the events are really easy to code, and since the ChampO team is small and overworked, cycling things in like that gives a vague impression that the game is going somewhere when it's actually just spinning its wheels since they're wasting time on throw-away additions instead of making actual new content. There's certainly diminishing returns to additions to them, since you reach a point where choice paralysis takes over or older options are effectively obsoleted, but I can guarantee ChampO hasn't reached that point yet. And yeah, GW2's "only temporary content!" bullshit is part of why I'm never going back to it. I gave up on it around January for various reasons (including real life distractions), and the realization that there's literally nothing extra now beyond whatever the current gimmick is - and that I've effectively forever missed out on whatever ran in the interim - is basically... eh. Why bother?
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Jul 7, 2013 23:12
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My issues with GW2 mostly stem from it going way towards a traditional MMO formula than I would have wanted. I don't care what anyone says, it's still a grind to get to level 80. I enjoyed the 20 level system in 1. Mostly my tastes in MMOs revolve around not having to sacrifice part of your soul to get anywhere, and back when CO was more lively it did well for me. Kinda why The Secret World is what I tend to boot up now and then these days.
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Jul 8, 2013 01:09
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Hopefully, that mythical new development team we've heard whispers about will make more permanent content. I don't even count 'temporary content updates' as content, because to me 'content' implies something tangible and permanent. You'd think that of all MMOs to learn from City of Heroes' method of 'plot progression' (which was basically 'let things progress in a roughly chronological manner but have it all there to be done whenever'), it'd be CO. I guess people took it for granted when CoH had it, because we didn't expect there to even be an alternative, especially not something that stupid.
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Jul 8, 2013 01:58
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Decided to give this game a try and wanted to make a  themed character. I already figured I'd have the dark magic or whatever powerset but I basically just need to know if there's any costume packs/unlockables that will let me have the desired tentacle face.
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Jul 29, 2013 02:31
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You should be able to have all costume parts show up in the tailor, then selecting them will tell you what pack they're in. The parts exist, I'm just not sure where.
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Jul 29, 2013 02:34
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Awesome. I'll spend some time taking a look then. Thanks!
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Jul 29, 2013 02:35
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There's actually two different tentacle-mouth pieces, one's from the plant costume set, the other I think might just be part of the game's default free options?
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Jul 29, 2013 02:39
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Note that the game has decided to for some reason lock out a lot of the costume options until you have cleared the tutorial at least once, I think. It was that way last time I played anyway.
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Jul 29, 2013 03:14
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Light Gun Man posted:Note that the game has decided to for some reason lock out a lot of the costume options until you have cleared the tutorial at least once, I think. It was that way last time I played anyway. Still is! It's dumb, but there you go.
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Jul 29, 2013 19:09
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Welp I dug up my old account and resubbed  Goon me up, where do I go and stuff.
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Aug 12, 2013 23:03
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