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Groke posted:Haven't played TNO but I suppose that means it's depicted as an apocalyptically dysfunctional mess? Because poo poo was hosed up, yo. TNO depicts the german, italian, and japanese states as dysfunctional yes. I was hesitant to play the "nazis win" mod but it pulls no punches with showing fascism to be lovely. There's also some fun minor fascists playable. You can be a Reichskommissariat in Africa, or an SS cosplay state in Russia, or a viking cosplay state in Russia, or literally Andrey Vlassov, Russia is full of shitheads really. But they all get primarily negative traits. You can also be Zhukov or ANC South Africa or a rampaging band of anarchists and kill them all. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 18:52
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PittTheElder posted:Well Fredrik did something but we don't know what as far as I know DN interviewed him, but he didn't give more details: (google translated) quote:What do you mean by " inappropriate behavior " ? I hadn't heard of this before, so I assume it affected someone on the Publishing side.
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Sep 14, 2021 18:54
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Groke posted:Haven't played TNO but I suppose that means it's depicted as an apocalyptically dysfunctional mess? Because poo poo was hosed up, yo. Not a single fascist or reichkomissariat regime has a working economy, fully depending on slave labor and a police state to beat their population into obedience. When Hitler dies, Germany turns into a five or six sided civil war, where even the most moderate figure holds a terrible secret. Meanwhile, half of France is controlled by Himmler, whose campaign is based on trying to bring global nuclear Armageddon. The only barely decent fascist regime is Italy, which can back down and hopefully create a modest social democracy. The Iberian Union can also develop into a really solid spot, but they're not fascist per se.
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Sep 14, 2021 19:02
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:TNO depicts the german, italian, and japanese states as dysfunctional yes. I was hesitant to play the "nazis win" mod but it pulls no punches with showing fascism to be lovely. There's also some fun minor fascists playable. You can be a Reichskommissariat in Africa, or an SS cosplay state in Russia, or a viking cosplay state in Russia, or literally Andrey Vlassov, Russia is full of shitheads really. But they all get primarily negative traits. You can also play as John Glen and decide that Mars is a better place than Earth.
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Sep 14, 2021 19:17
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The main issue with TNO is the mods don't like the wargame aspect of HoI4, which makes it a somewhat difficult medium to work in. The bulk of gameplay is completing focuses and interacting with custom built decision and event systems to manage your state, but these are big drains on performance so the game itself is a slog.
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Sep 14, 2021 19:30
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Mans posted:Not a single fascist or reichkomissariat regime has a working economy, fully depending on slave labor and a police state to beat their population into obedience. Burgundy under Himmler is a bit of an outlier because it makes no sense even in the context of the mod and it's bizarrely competent. But I think they are planning to tone it down a bit eventually, though not sure how they can manage it while keeping it as the big bad of the mod.
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Sep 14, 2021 19:34
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Mans posted:...what? Perhaps I was wrong with saying genocide was unavoidable, but I stand by the fact that Soviet/Communist ideology has baked into it the idea that certain peoples, whether they be a class, a religion, or other group, are enemies of the state and that the state has a duty to take them out, which Communist states did over and over. The targets and definitions of who was an "enemy" may have changed, but the tactics rarely did. This is in addition to the mass deaths caused by ineptitude and regular human cruelty. The Nazi ideology was founded on genocide, the Communist ideology was founded on class/group conflict and just kept blundering into body counts in the millions, with repression as the order of the day. It's popped up more than once in this thread that "If just not for Stalin the USSR would've been this Utopia so let's play it that way in HoI", and that's just delusional. quote:I'm not going to reply much to the rest of your post, I'll only say that, with the endless anti-anything remotely close to center-left (much less actual left) propaganda in the United States, if the kids you know nowadays aren't being constantly convinced by how evil Mao was, it's only because landlords are doing their best to turn a whole generation into his biggest fans Most kids don't even know who Mao is man, let alone his Great Leap Forward/Cultural Revolution body count in 9 digits. VostokProgram posted:Where the hell do you live??? A very blue state. Not sure if the disparity should be chopped up to the curriculum giving more attention to one topic than the other or just general American education malaise. Raskolnikov38 posted:thx for personally demonstrating this with your post 'Aight.
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Sep 14, 2021 19:39
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Lmao the great leap forward/great proletarian cultural revolution did not kill over 100m people
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Sep 14, 2021 19:42
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Lmao the great leap forward/great proletarian cultural revolution did not kill over 100m people But his point has less weight without the hyperbole!
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Sep 14, 2021 19:49
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PittTheElder posted:Well Fredrik did something but we don't know what as far as I know It gives the events of NWW an especially unpleasant air.
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Sep 14, 2021 19:54
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What is NWW?
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Sep 14, 2021 19:57
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Uhh, was the reason Paradox Tinto opened because Fredrik went to Spain after the allegations?
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Sep 14, 2021 20:03
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:
We're all very proud of you for choosing to be born in a Good State
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Sep 14, 2021 20:05
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:
I'd be shocked if there wasn't schools in California or Upstate NY that taught MLK Jr had it coming, and that we should have sided with the Axis against the Soviet Union in WWII because the "the Communists were worse". American education is hyperlocal, and some schools teach some bonkers poo poo. My Ohio school taught that the Civil War wasn't about slavery at all, and that was before we voted for Obama twice (and before we became an insane death cultist state).
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Sep 14, 2021 20:11
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RabidWeasel posted:The real spoiler is that WW2 is actually a crap setting for a Paradox-style GSG for a lot of reasons, RIP ever getting that cold war game I dunno I have fun playing it
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Sep 14, 2021 20:12
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Lady Radia posted:Uhh, was the reason Paradox Tinto opened because Fredrik went to Spain after the allegations? No? Tinto is johan. A fact that has been mentioned in this thread dozens of times
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Sep 14, 2021 20:20
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PittTheElder posted:What is NWW? I assume New White Wolf, which published a Vampire rulebook that was so bad it started a literal international incident that forced Paradox to take over running the company directly. https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/16/18098929/white-wolf-controversy-paradox-interactive-new-ceo
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Sep 14, 2021 20:23
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Davincie posted:No? Tinto is johan. A fact that has been mentioned in this thread dozens of times
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Sep 14, 2021 20:33
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going to spain when you are a "retired" person who behaves like an rear end in a top hat is just a natural part of the northern european lifecycle
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Sep 14, 2021 20:47
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Please explain. What evidence do you ahve that germany was for sure not full of nationalists who wer eincredibly interested in "fixing" the loss from WW1 that they felt was not a genuine loss? How many times in the past had jews not been forcibly ousted/targeted by the state government? You understand that had hitler/nazi's failed early that there were many other nationalist groups looking to do mostly similar things? Your post was denying the extremely well-documented historical fact that the core of the Nazi project (and thus the core of the war they started to achieve that project) was a campaign of genocidal extermination and colonialism against all the untermenschen squatting on the rightful Aryan lebensraum out east. One of the many racial enemies were Jews, for lots of complex reasons including a millennia-long tradition of anti-Semitism, but the reason the Nazis went to war at all was so they could murder or enslave everyone east of the Vistula and replace them with German settler colonists. Any serious historian will tell you all about this, and while humiliating France and getting revenge for Versaille was undoubtedly a part of the German political milieu of the time, the Nazi ideology and the war specifically were focused heavily on the east, and their grand plans to become the America of Europe by exterminating all the inferior natives and taking the rich natural resources for the benefit of the superior Aryan rulers. That's a metaphor that Hitler himself used, he wanted to re-do America except "properly" this time with even harsher racism and genocide because the original Americans "wasted" their shot by letting a bunch of mongrelized racial enemies into the club. This gets conveniently left out of most American history classes for obvious reasons.
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Sep 14, 2021 20:48
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Mans posted:Not a single fascist or reichkomissariat regime has a working economy, fully depending on slave labor and a police state to beat their population into obedience. I still have to do a Dengist Speer run, isn't that one of the exceptions?
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Sep 14, 2021 21:11
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look its a sad fact that to beat the Nazis the US had to ally with a genocidal empire bent on world conquest and also the Soviets
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Sep 14, 2021 21:42
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Vichan posted:I still have to do a Dengist Speer run, isn't that one of the exceptions? I'd go so far to say that spoilered route is the ONLY exception, really. The closest runner I can think of is Takagi's Japan. And even then, while he might be a reformer by the standards of TNO Japan, he's still running the Imperial Japanese machine at the head of the Co-Prosperity Sphere and it's telling that it takes the horrors of the North Borneo scandal breaking for him to even start grasping the historic and future consequences of 'Japanization' for the rest of the Sphere, even his attempts to make a more 'liberal' form of it. (Sorry for heavy spoiler tags, but as someone who rather likes playing TNO, a lot of the punch comes from the unexpected story turns.) Morrow posted:The main issue with TNO is the mods don't like the wargame aspect of HoI4, which makes it a somewhat difficult medium to work in. The bulk of gameplay is completing focuses and interacting with custom built decision and event systems to manage your state, but these are big drains on performance so the game itself is a slog. It's a fair point - TNO is more of a CYOA-type game that uses HOI4 as a framework; that creates a few flaws (chiefly an utterly broken autosave function, don't rely on it) and the performance issues you mention. That said, I'd still recommend it to anyone who wants to jump down an alt-universe time sink, because by and large the writing is very good (and they've committed to rewriting some of the really early outlandish nations, like Burgundy).
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Sep 14, 2021 21:48
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StashAugustine posted:look its a sad fact that to beat the Nazis the US had to ally with a genocidal empire bent on world conquest and also the Soviets But enough about France
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Sep 14, 2021 22:00
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StashAugustine posted:look its a sad fact that to beat the Nazis the US had to ally with a genocidal empire bent on world conquest and also the Soviets But enough about the Brits. (Edit: well, beaten)
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Sep 14, 2021 22:02
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Crazycryodude posted:Your post was denying the extremely well-documented historical fact that the core of the Nazi project (and thus the core of the war they started to achieve that project) was a campaign of genocidal extermination and colonialism against all the untermenschen squatting on the rightful Aryan lebensraum out east. One of the many racial enemies were Jews, for lots of complex reasons including a millennia-long tradition of anti-Semitism, but the reason the Nazis went to war at all was so they could murder or enslave everyone east of the Vistula and replace them with German settler colonists. Indeed, and if they'd managed to keep going longer, the murdered Jews would have been a smaller percentage of the total for the simple reason that they'd run out of Jews to murder long before they ran out of Slavs etc. I've often thought a bit about how there were very many somewhat different right-wing revanchist groups running around Germany in the 1920s and while the replacemen of the Weimar republic with a fascistoid regime based on one of these seems like a fairly high-probability outcome, there doesn't seem to be anything inevitable about which particular brand would come to dominate. It is easy to imagine an awful German regime trying to get revenge for WW1 and starting up some poo poo again, but with a different bunch of assholes in charge and quite possibly ones who didn't have the same kind of completely loving batshit worldview. While anti-semitism for example is an ancient European tradition, fascism itself can exist without it (and indeed Mussolini's OG Roman cosplay ideology wasn't exactly centered around racism; well, they were nationalists and chauvinists, but Mussolini himself for example said various contradictory things about the subject of "race" over the years and it doesn't seem to have been a real priority for him). The mid-20th century could have looked pretty different.
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Sep 14, 2021 22:23
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Lmao the great leap forward/great proletarian cultural revolution did not kill over 100m people My bad, you're right, it was only 30 to 45 million, plus 1 to 2 million from the GCR. Still utterly horrific and evil, and shouldn't be downplayed as some seem to be doing. Edgar Allan Ho posted:We're all very proud of you for choosing to be born in a Good State Moved. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 22:25
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Farecoal posted:I dunno I have fun playing it war criminal
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Sep 14, 2021 22:28
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Farecoal posted:I dunno I have fun playing it something a holocaust denier and hitler apologist would say
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Sep 14, 2021 22:30
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Crazycryodude posted:Your post was denying the extremely well-documented historical fact that the core of the Nazi project (and thus the core of the war they started to achieve that project) was a campaign of genocidal extermination and colonialism against all the untermenschen squatting on the rightful Aryan lebensraum out east. One of the many racial enemies were Jews, for lots of complex reasons including a millennia-long tradition of anti-Semitism, but the reason the Nazis went to war at all was so they could murder or enslave everyone east of the Vistula and replace them with German settler colonists. Any serious historian will tell you all about this, and while humiliating France and getting revenge for Versaille was undoubtedly a part of the German political milieu of the time, the Nazi ideology and the war specifically were focused heavily on the east, and their grand plans to become the America of Europe by exterminating all the inferior natives and taking the rich natural resources for the benefit of the superior Aryan rulers. That's a metaphor that Hitler himself used, he wanted to re-do America except "properly" this time with even harsher racism and genocide because the original Americans "wasted" their shot by letting a bunch of mongrelized racial enemies into the club. This gets conveniently left out of most American history classes for obvious reasons. I actually don’t disagree with anything you just said. I reread my original comment and I think I just slept through what I though I was arguing about. Lol Theoretically, the circumstances of how ww1 ended was always going to lead into ww2. Hitlers rationalizations or inspirations aside. SnoochtotheNooch fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 23:03
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This thread https://youtu.be/wAMgT8LuZaw
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Sep 15, 2021 06:38
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Also this thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIO0DesXpdo&t=60s
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Sep 15, 2021 19:32
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Yes it's very funny and dumb to not like the Third Reich
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Sep 15, 2021 23:18
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To not reich them
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Sep 16, 2021 00:14
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It's a video game. Nobody's stupid enough to think that just because the Holocaust isn't represented in hoi4, that it didn't happen. Nobody looks at hoi4's depiction of Stalin's purges as historical truth. It doesn't matter. The game is not a reflection of latent national socialist tendencies within paradox development studios. Nor is everyone, or even most people, who play a country in hoi4 in agreement with that country's policies. Germany has a high player count because it's mechanically interesting and there is an obvious sequence of goals with increasing difficulty. It's fine if you don't want to play any country but to act like the people who do are fascists/communists/<bad people> is stupid.
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Sep 16, 2021 00:14
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Yes it's very funny and dumb to not like the Third Reich It's very old and boring to accuse everyone else of liking them.
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Sep 16, 2021 01:23
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This is why the pony mod is better.
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Sep 16, 2021 01:24
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:This is why the FTFY
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Sep 16, 2021 01:36
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Servetus posted:FTFY That’s also factually true, but the Fallout mod being better than base game is both more widely known and far less of a dunk.
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Sep 16, 2021 01:39
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Both good mods, indeed, but they have a distressing lack of giant robots.
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Sep 16, 2021 01:44
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