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Roth posted:The original Marv Wolfman comics that Teen Titans are based off are good, but they're horribly aged and aren't that fun. pretty much, old TT wasn't fantastic when you stop looking at it with nostalgia and all, but considering its source material was one of the worst Claremont ripoffs of its era that had any major following it gets a lot of love. Like when the bar is 'huh no one rapes Starfire in this show and Raven's struggle with her demon side isn't weirdly sexualized? Cool, already better than the comic runs half the time then'' even if the result was just 'Starfire is Mork from Ork and Raven is so much of a generic 'gothic mage' character even the show had to make fun of it'.
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Sep 6, 2017 23:02
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So Lindsay's new video is up, and it's good, but is it just me or has the white balance on the parts where she's talking to the camera been super overexposed? Maybe it's a style thing connected to the movies and I just don't get it, but it stands out.
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Sep 6, 2017 23:12
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sexpig by night posted:pretty much, old TT wasn't fantastic when you stop looking at it with nostalgia and all, but considering its source material was one of the worst Claremont ripoffs of its era that had any major following it gets a lot of love. Like when the bar is 'huh no one rapes Starfire in this show and Raven's struggle with her demon side isn't weirdly sexualized? Cool, already better than the comic runs half the time then'' even if the result was just 'Starfire is Mork from Ork and Raven is so much of a generic 'gothic mage' character even the show had to make fun of it'. It also focuses on the characters that actually have potential to be interesting instead of Jericho, Kole, Danny Chase, Pantha, Baby Wildebeest, and so on. I still stand by that the old Teen Titans is a genuinely great show. I don't think there's a single episode that's just a straight up stinker in the bunch, and I'm still just really fond of the characters in the show. I don't think it's so surprising that it got such a following, because those characters just interact and play off of one another so well. Season 1 of Justice League on the other hand is really flat, with characters frequently being straight up useless. I'd say that while Justice League definitely has better writing overall, I still like the characters and moment to moment beats of Teen Titans more.
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Sep 6, 2017 23:26
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Yea to be clear by 'wasn't fantastic' I still agree it was a solid show, I just think a lot of fans hyped it up a bit, especially now that it's in style to be all "OH THE OLD SHOW AS A MASTER CLASS OF COMIC CARTOONS AND NOW TTGO MAKES JOKES????". They had really solid writers who easily made one of the best team focused comic book adaptations at the time. (JL was amazing but let's be honest the team element really boiled down to a rotating set of small sub-groups which was a good way to handle such a big roster but TT was able to use all the Titans well at once.)
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Sep 6, 2017 23:51
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sexpig by night posted:(JL was amazing but let's be honest the team element really boiled down to a rotating set of small sub-groups which was a good way to handle such a big roster but TT was able to use all the Titans well at once.) Justice League really only had trouble fitting in Batman because when the rest of your team can go toe to toe with literal gods, you don't really need the regular human to help.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:01
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sexpig by night posted:Yea to be clear by 'wasn't fantastic' I still agree it was a solid show, I just think a lot of fans hyped it up a bit, especially now that it's in style to be all "OH THE OLD SHOW AS A MASTER CLASS OF COMIC CARTOONS AND NOW TTGO MAKES JOKES????". They had really solid writers who easily made one of the best team focused comic book adaptations at the time. That's fair. I don't really have much of an opinion on TTG outside of a lack of interest. People complaining that it's too silly probably don't remember that the original was frequently really silly too. I have noticed a bit of a clapback to those people from TTG fans talking up how the original was the worst show ever as well. Fans suck in general.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:04
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Roth posted:That's fair. I don't really have much of an opinion on TTG outside of a lack of interest. People complaining that it's too silly probably don't remember that the original was frequently really silly too. I think the reason why people don't really like TTG is because the 2003 cartoon left some plot threads unresolved, and having the follow-up just be a straight-up comedy rather than a mix of humor and drama didn't sit well with them.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:07
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Max Wilco posted:I think the reason why people don't really like TTG is because the 2003 cartoon left some plot threads unresolved, and having the follow-up just be a straight-up comedy rather than a mix of humor and drama didn't sit well with them. This is me I am this
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Sep 7, 2017 00:12
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Fans speak in extremes and hyperbole, news at 11 Teen Titans was good, like not quite Avatar good but at least Gargoyles good, and yeah a lot of that boiled down to the team actually being fun Still doesn't explain how Teen Titans Go had over 300 episodes aired in a week, though
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Sep 7, 2017 00:13
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Max Wilco posted:I think the reason why people don't really like TTG is because the 2003 cartoon left some plot threads unresolved, and having the follow-up just be a straight-up comedy rather than a mix of humor and drama didn't sit well with them. it also doesn't help (but was incredibly funny) that one of the earlier episodes did a full on gag about the Young Justice heroes coming to call them too jokey and needing to get serious and them responding by going hard into over the top grim dark versions of their characters complete with a more 'realistic' art style and all. Like, the people who would feel attacked by a cartoon going 'haha a lot of super hero shows are way too serious these days yea?' are absolutely insane but it just so happens that 99% of the people who care enough to vocally complain that TTGo somehow was an insult to the Teen Titans 'legacy' are fuckin absolutely insane so that spurred on the Mr Enter types to keep yelling.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNkTeHpHj_I I don't really are about Transformers but this topic interested me so I watched it. Reminds me of when I watched Gundam a few years back. A lot of Gundam fans say Tomino, the father of Gundam, really dislikes women. Yet I always got the impression he didn't like men much, either. That's my contribution and analysis. It is pretty interesting to comment on how media infantilize men as much as they do women.
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Sep 7, 2017 01:20
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A lot of Manga writers have issues with women, look at Naruto, Death Note and DB for examples of that.
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Sep 7, 2017 01:56
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New Butt Order posted:Justice League really only had trouble fitting in Batman because when the rest of your team can go toe to toe with literal gods, you don't really need the regular human to help. I like the TT cartoon, first because of Ron Perlman as Slade and second because of Malcolm McDowell as Mad Mod  Man the DCAU voice casts are just insane with the talent they got, Andrea Romano is the real unsung hero of the DCAU along with Dwayne McDuffie (especially considering how Bruce Timm DC cartoons have fared since his death)
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Sep 7, 2017 02:00
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CharlestheHammer posted:A lot of Manga writers have issues with women, look at Naruto, Death Note and DB for examples of that. Those are notably all shounen series ie. manga written for young, horny boys. Then again, some would say the female equivalent (shojo) is potentially even worse. I tend to disagree but I understand the viewpoint.
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Sep 7, 2017 02:04
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I'd say the reason anime fans tend to be sexist, racist, and poo poo is because anime itself is pretty sexist and racist.achillesforever6 posted:They also had problems with not being able to use Batman villains and Aquaman characters because of dumb self imposed embargos. Though I can see the former being actually good since it let them explore more obscure villains and characters in the DC universe. Kind of like how Marvel not having the rights to Spider-man and the X-men was actually a benefit in the long run. Yeah, she's pretty great. The DCAU, Teen Titans, the Spielberg-produced cartoons, Avatar. She's done so many good shows, and I really love her parts in interviews and behind the scenes footage because she so clearly understands her job.
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Sep 7, 2017 02:08
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Roth posted:I'd say the reason anime fans tend to be sexist, racist, and poo poo is because anime itself is pretty sexist and racist. See also: Literally all nerd media
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Sep 7, 2017 02:15
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It's a cross-national problem
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Sep 7, 2017 02:18
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Roth posted:Yeah, she's pretty great. The DCAU, Teen Titans, the Spielberg-produced cartoons, Avatar. She's done so many good shows, and I really love her parts in interviews and behind the scenes footage because she so clearly understands her job.
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Sep 7, 2017 02:22
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NikkolasKing posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNkTeHpHj_I I liked the part where she framed dissatisfaction with a brutally inept job economy rife with unemployment, underemployment, and a lack of careers and gainful opportunities as equal to being entitled to a girlfriend and being a furry. Also, that movies trained people to be entitled to a job, something they need in order to earn money, the vast majority of which is controlled by an elite few while also being the resource you need to survive daily life in America.
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Sep 7, 2017 03:09
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NikkolasKing posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNkTeHpHj_I Tomino had issues with women, but he never exactly hated them. He put them on pedestals and had weird ideas about women issues, but he was also working in the 70s and 80s at the time. He got a lot better with his modern output. I'm sure a feminist analysis of his show would be super interesting, though. Tomino definitely hates toxic masculinity and war mongering.
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Sep 7, 2017 03:13
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Taintrunner posted:I liked the part where she framed dissatisfaction with a brutally inept job economy rife with unemployment, underemployment, and a lack of careers and gainful opportunities as equal to being entitled to a girlfriend and being a furry. Also, that movies trained people to be entitled to a job, something they need in order to earn money, the vast majority of which is controlled by an elite few while also being the resource you need to survive daily life in America. I had to go back and pause this when I first watched the video, and really just took a while to try to figure out what she was trying to get at with that point. I'm still not sure, and it seems oddly out of line with what I know of her political views from her videos and twitter.
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Sep 7, 2017 03:19
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He also absolutely despises Imperial Japan.
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Sep 7, 2017 03:19
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Taintrunner posted:I liked the part where she framed dissatisfaction with a brutally inept job economy rife with unemployment, underemployment, and a lack of careers and gainful opportunities as equal to being entitled to a girlfriend and being a furry. Also, that movies trained people to be entitled to a job, something they need in order to earn money, the vast majority of which is controlled by an elite few while also being the resource you need to survive daily life in America. At the risk of putting aside this loving comic im trying to write about how WOW made me trans, I'll bite. Everyone here on SA is pretty much a leftist at this point, so we all know how bullshit a capitalist society is, in the ways you just described. But here's the thing about guys like Richard Spencer and the Alt-Right. They also know that Capitalism is bullshit as well, but in very different ways. The problem isn't that capitalism doesn't work, it's that capitalism doesn't work for them. One of my favorite movies of all time, and a great look at what Toxic Masculinity looks like, is Fight Club. And this scene captures what I think Lindsey is trying to say about how media can influence the thoughts of people, especially men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi9ivZL7vmA It's not that they feel entitled to a job, a house, clothing, and a wife and family. They feel entitled to their dream job, a beautiful multi-million dollar home, a super model wife. Pretty much everything they could ever want. "I should In Las Vegas blowing a million dollars as if it was pocket change with my smoking hot girl at my side, while on the phone telling some mid level lackey at the company I own to get this poo poo done or their fired. Instead i am that Mid-Level Lackey who has to work so much just to make rent that I don't have a life. And no one respects me even though i'm the "Nicest" guy in the world. This is all because of (Women/the gays/the mexcians/The asians/(((Globalists)))) who get a easy ride and I get nothing just because of bullshit diversity quotas" Media like Transformers, and characters like Sam Whitwickey enforces that. On Twitter, Lindsey said her video was basically a remake of one of Folding Ideas. Maybe he explains it a little better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNspkOjZ0ac BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 03:37
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Conal Cochran posted:I had to go back and pause this when I first watched the video, and really just took a while to try to figure out what she was trying to get at with that point. I'm still not sure, and it seems oddly out of line with what I know of her political views from her videos and twitter. I don't really recognize any of this and I was sure I'd just watched it a few days ago (before it came out, so maybe there was a bit of editing after the Patreon version had been out). Could you tell me what min:sec in the video this is?
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Sep 7, 2017 04:24
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'm still amazed the old teen titans show ever had a big following. It's nowhere near as good as stuff like the Justice League cartoon or even The Batman. (The one with the Jamaican looking Joker) You're really surprised that people like thing that does not meet your definition of good; in this, the alt-right rational laughthread?
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Sep 7, 2017 04:40
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It makes a lot more sense when you remember the description of Sam Witwicky a little earlier in the video: he's a complete loser who never really does anything, but the heroism and the hot girl and everything fall into his lap. I'm assuming since y'all are on SA, you're familiar with the dweebs who feel that they should be given a girlfriend, despite not bothering with any level of self-improvement. Similarly, there are many people who expect to go into a job with minimum credentials and no hustle and just get it on the basis of "I'm Special." We can argue about whether it is a fair situation that one is required to compete to fill a job that's required to survive*, but at the end of the day, "ought" must give way to "is," and a realistic person understands that "well, I tried the minimum and didn't get the job, I probably need to try harder." The problem is that, if you've allowed movies to inform your reality without stepping back and examining what they're saying, you tend not to think that. You think, "Well, I did the right steps, where's my happily ever after?" ** And then, if your version of reality has also been built on the ideas that Rich People = Smart and Good, and that the Free Market will Save us From Our Sins and Elect Only the Meritorious, you skip over the thought that maybe the problem is the rich assholes in charge of the economy, and you look for a more "likely" target. Like the one that you're already disinclined toward for getting the thing you want, despite the fact that you know you did all the right stuff and thus by rights should've gotten it. (Coincidentally, you've also grown up in a culture that has told you that people Not Like You are lesser than you in most ways, though you know you're not supposed to talk about that for unclear reasons.) So the problem becomes not one of a mishandling of the economy, but that there's some mechanism in place by bad actors who are gaming the system to get ahead of good people and take what is rightfully yours. If people didn't have that attitude, we wouldn't have most of the alt-right style movements. The suffering is genuine, but it's based on really bad assumptions about how the world works. *It's not, IMO **Because human brains are incredibly bad at distinguishing fiction from reality. Like, notoriously so. We are a million times dumber than we think. ETA: Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't really recognize any of this and I was sure I'd just watched it a few days ago (before it came out, so maybe there was a bit of editing after the Patreon version had been out). Could you tell me what min:sec in the video this is? It's the sequence that starts at 12:17; the offending thing is the jokey jokes onscreen at 12:28. Puppy Time fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 04:42
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Puppy Time posted:It's the sequence that starts at 12:17; the offending thing is the jokey jokes onscreen at 12:28. Wait, this?  The whole point of this sequence is that media shapes expectations, I don't think she meant these expectations were all equivalent and also abhorrent and reflect poorly on those holding them.
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Sep 7, 2017 04:53
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people in this thread are kinda stupid
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Sep 7, 2017 04:56
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Tired Moritz posted:people To be completely accurate
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Sep 7, 2017 05:09
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RareAcumen posted:You're really surprised that people like thing that does not meet your definition of good; in this, the alt-right rational laughthread? I'm more impressed that people can get so worked up over how cartoon network supposedly betrayed an older show with a comedy spinoff ten years later. I never really got into the show to begin with because I found it mediocre when it first aired, so looking at the nerd rage from the outside I find it all the more strange.
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Sep 7, 2017 05:09
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Tired Moritz posted:people in this thread are kinda stupid What part of "The Internet Makes You Stupid" do you not understand?
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Sep 7, 2017 05:11
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Wait, this? Right, but media doesn't shape that expectation. Everyone in society telling you that as a kid set that expectation.
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Sep 7, 2017 05:18
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Taintrunner posted:Right, but media doesn't shape that expectation. Everyone in society telling you that as a kid set that expectation. And how does society tell this to you? In many cases through media.  Edit: I mean, the entitlement to a "hot chick" is not only spread through media, either. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 05:19
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'm more impressed that people can get so worked up over how cartoon network supposedly betrayed an older show with a comedy spinoff ten years later. I never really got into the show to begin with because I found it mediocre when it first aired, so looking at the nerd rage from the outside I find it all the more strange. Ha! I can agree with you there buddy! Personally, I'm totally dead inside so all I can muster up is 'boy I hope this doesn't get more elaborate than posting angry comments on the internet like maybe articles, or youtube or twitter and tumblr' because despite that it's still disappointing to watch people go as far as send cookies with razor blades or death threats at people for the entertainment media they create. On the other hand, as one of the lesser beings that Jontron was raving about causing all the crimes all I I had was 'Oh his brain's broke too. I thought he just said dumb stuff on Twitter and that was it. Never would've thought full Nazi' and I just unsubscribed. I mean, the people who make these shows aren't even Neo Nazis like the Hatred guys or the developer of Grimoire : Heralds of the Winged Exemplar. Also I'm a dumb person too.
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Sep 7, 2017 05:25
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RareAcumen posted:I mean, the people who make these shows aren't even Neo Nazis like the Hatred guys or the developer of Grimoire : Heralds of the Winged Exemplar. Having been in the general online vicinity of them for a long while, Cleve is just a genuinely crazy person. Not like that makes his bizarre poo poo any better but there's some deep level of actual broke brain there.
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Sep 7, 2017 06:06
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Yardbomb posted:Having been in the general online vicinity of them for a long while, Cleve is just a genuinely crazy person. Not like that makes his bizarre poo poo any better but there's some deep level of actual broke brain there. Isn't that what happened with Tila Tequila?
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Sep 7, 2017 06:10
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MonsieurChoc posted:Tomino had issues with women, but he never exactly hated them. He put them on pedestals and had weird ideas about women issues, but he was also working in the 70s and 80s at the time. He got a lot better with his modern output. I'm sure a feminist analysis of his show would be super interesting, though. Tomino explicitly laid out his philosophy on gender at the darkest point of his life in Victory Gundam, when he was right in the middle of an emotional breakdown. Basically, women are uniquely sacred because of their ability to create and bear life. This means that it is especially horrifying for a woman to die, and even more horrifying for them to either reject or deny their role as life-givers and take up a life of murder instead. This crosses over with his other belief that the status quo is inherently broken and destructive, and that only the children of today, with their capacity for entirely new perspectives and ways of thinking, can create something.better, which is why it is horrifying to see them recruited into old hatreds and ideologies by callous, cynical old men. Taken together, this meant that one of Tomino's favourite tactics during the earlier, more grim phase of his career was to kill a shitload of women and children to illustrate the true horror of war, with the most extreme example being the decapitation by rocket launcher of Ashura Novak, a five-year-old girl, during the finale of Space Runaway Ideon. It's also why the greatest symbol of the horrors of war in his parts of the Gundam franchise is the Cyber-Newtype, a young teenager (usually a girl) who has been artificially imbued with the psychic powers that humanity is beginning to develop through a horrific regime of drugs, cybernetic augmentation, and genetic modification. Cyber-Newtypes are living weapons, using their telepathy not to achieve new kinds of understanding with the rest of mankind, but to interface with psychically-controlled superweapons and slaughter indiscriminately. They're all completely insane, have massively shortened lifespans, and die violently before the end of the show. It's worth noting that his later works have become much less grim, with much lower bodycounts, and it's hard to say how devoted he still is to the bizarre theories on gender he expressed two decades ago (as an example, his most recent show, Gundam Reconguista in G, has a number of female characters choose to base their lives around violence and meet sticky ends, but also has one of them, Mick Jack, do well for herself, be treated fairly nonjudgmentally, and make it out the other side in one piece). An additional complication is that Tomino has a downright strange ear for dialogue, and tends to make peculiar leaps in logic while failing to grasp that others might not be able to follow him (it's been suggested that he's on the autistic spectrum, and while it's unwise to draw too many conclusions about an artist you've never met, who comes from a very different culture, and who works in a very different language, hoo boy does he throw up a lot of red flags), so it can be more difficult than with other directors to grasp exactly what he's trying to say with any given piece of work. One other thing worth noting is that he clearly makes an effort to be more progressive on race than most anime directors - most of his shows will feature a diverse array of races and cultures presented entirely nonjudgementally (even in Victory Gundam, the two female leads - who both survive the show, mind you - are a black woman and a half-Indian girl), and Turn A Gundam, set in the far future, is explicitly post-racial, with combinations of hair colours and skin tones found nowhere in the world today and a main character who looks like this: 
Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 08:38
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NikkolasKing posted:Those are notably all shounen series ie. manga written for young, horny boys. Death Note isn't shonen, though Shonen is just superhero comics for Japan and Western comics don't have the same issue those comics have. They have their own issues but still. Edit: wait you say it like sexually objectifying women is the issue. Surprisingly it's not, shonen is usually rather chaste. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 08:44
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Absurd Alhazred posted:
Taintrunner posted:Right, but media doesn't shape that expectation. Everyone in society telling you that as a kid set that expectation. In school, I was told that doing well and going to college would help me get a better job. Before I went to college, I got certifications for Microsoft Office , and I thought would help me get a job. I went to college a month after graduating high school for Web Graphic Design. The mistake I made was going to DeVry University. I left after I got my Associate's degree, but was never taught any of the skills that employers asked for. At that point, I was burned out and didn't want to go back to school. I thought I could get a job as some sort of office worker with my Microsoft Office certification, but I couldn't get hired for that either. It was a few years before I finally found a job as a customer service associate. It's frustrating because you're told that if you make the effort and investment in a college education you're that you have a better chance at a better job. It frustrates me personally because I feel like I hosed up and took a career path that I realized I didn't like. It's frustrating because of the Catch-22 where they tell you that you need experience to get a job, but you can't get experience without a job. I'm not resentful towards other people of other genders or ethnicities, but when that connotation is made, it make me feel like I should sit in the bathtub and open my wrists as some sort of penance. It's like I screwed up and failed at life, and being resentful of that is a trait appropriate of a bigot. It's like, "gently caress, I can't win no matter what I do. I just give up." I'm sorry to go off on a rant like that and bring up my personal history. The point I was trying to make before I went off the rails was that even in school, you're advised to go college, and that doing so is said to help you get a better career, so my question is whether that's the fault of media, or some other factor.
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Sep 7, 2017 08:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:Death Note isn't shonen, though Shonen is just superhero comics for Japan and Western comics don't have the same issue those comics have. Death Note was published in Weekly Shonen Jump magazine, right alongside titles like Naruto and Bleach. Shonen isn't a genre or type, it's a target audience/demographic - young males.
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