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TooMuchAbstraction posted:As I understand it, burning is because you're going too slowly. Going too fast, in contrast, causes chipping and potentially kickback. Burning is exacerbated by having a high RPM, and some woods like maple are just more prone to burning. You may have hit on a couple points. I was using scrap maple today, so that may be part of the issue. I switched to poplar and still got some burning, but it seems like if I try to feed faster, it really loads up the router. There is a guide bearing, I've got the fence set so that there's just a touch of the workpiece to the bearing.
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Aug 17, 2020 15:10
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EVERYWHERE 
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I am not a router expert, let me preface that. Your fence setup sounds fine; I use a similar approach. Is your router table flat? Is the piece flat? Are you holding the piece down to the table while you feed it through? Feed speed, RPM, and burning are all related, but I don't have a method for choosing how fast to run the router. It is of course also possible that your router is underpowered. Making shallower passes should help with that. I'd think that the 1/8" passes you said you were taking ought to be doable with most routers though.
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Aug 17, 2020 15:52
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You want to go evenly through the wood with your router not too fast, a little sanding can clean it up after. Obviously taking off as little as possible will be the easiest Rutibex posted:
Maple cant handle getting worked past 180-220ish before it starts burnishing Harry Potter on Ice fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Aug 17, 2020 |
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Aug 17, 2020 15:53
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So that's why all my chess pieces keep getting burn.
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meatpimp posted:So I think I may have set my woodworking skills back 20 years. You sure the lovely ones aren't HSS? I swear ityool 2020 there are still some out there. Typically cheapo chinesium carbide sets will still be near freud quality. I used to buy Grizzly (taiwan) bits and shaper cutters all the time with nary an issue. Still got the router bits, they're fine.
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Aug 17, 2020 16:44
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I'm about to be in the market for a router, table, and a bunch of bits. Good thing there is something cheaper than Freud that isn't a waste of money. If anyone still wants to talk shop layout, wheels and pallets. If its not on wheels I made a custom pallet for it so I can use the pallet jack or tractor to move things out of the way, there is no such thing as enough room around a table saw when you're handling 4x8 sheets of stuff. The pallet for the table saw made it the table a little on the tall side but so am I and I like it. Anyone still want to talk wood storage? My garage got flooded out recently and I had to go through it, I finally got all the lumber out and found some of it has little insect holes that appear to be powderpost beetles. I'm a little afraid to put it in the greenhouse where I store the rest of my lumber but read that heat can kill them. Do I chance putting it in there and hoping that the summer heat kills them off? it regularly gets past 130F in there if I don't leave the doors open and if I kill the exhaust fan it would probably get higher. I did find a bunch of 2 and 3" thick fir slabs and tons of 1" wide and long fir that hadn't been attacked yet, any good ideas for any of that?
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Aug 17, 2020 17:45
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SpeedFreek posted:I'm about to be in the market for a router, table, and a bunch of bits. Good thing there is something cheaper than Freud that isn't a waste of money. I'm sorry but if you can fit a tractor in your shop to move a tool you already have enough space.
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Aug 17, 2020 18:24
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Router bit chat-good bits absolutely do make a difference, but even chinese bits today are usually half decent carbide. The WoodTek brand from Woodworker's Supply are pretty good, but may not be any cheaper than Freud.SpeedFreek posted:I'm about to be in the market for a router, table, and a bunch of bits. Good thing there is something cheaper than Freud that isn't a waste of money. I wouldn't gently caress around with powder post beetles. Unless it's really exceptional wood, burn it ASAP. You can kill them with heat, but that means the center of the board needs to reach 140F for an hour, and wood is a pretty good insulator. That happens in wood drying kilns, but I doubt it would happen in your greenhouse as it is likely only reaching 130 briefly, and the center of the board isn't getting near that hot. You can put smaller chunks in a low oven for a few hours, but they usually check like crazy and obviously that isn't practical for larger stuff. You can also treat the infested wood(and everything else near it, tbh) with boracare or timbor, but I can't remember which. That won't kill the larvae inside the board, but it should kill them as they try and leave the board/infest a new board. You need to be very very thorough if you decide to do that.
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Aug 17, 2020 18:58
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I've watched some youtube videos (the phrase most said before disaster?) on how to apply veneer edge banding to plywood. My current plan is to figure out some way to hold the 48x30 sheet edge(s) up as I rotate the piece to have the work edge up, rough cut the banding to length plus a few inches, start at one end with my cheap iron and move along the piece activating the glue and pressing down first with the iron and then with a roller to get a good full adhesion stick. Wait an amount of time for the glue to dry before trimming the overhangs with an exacto blade or possibly a chisel? Repeat x 3 more sides. All the cheap irons these days seem to have a water thing to fill it up, should I iron dry or wet for edge banding? I'm thinking dry. Oh and then finish up by sanding the join between the veneer and the plywood sheet.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:11
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tangy yet delightful posted:I've watched some youtube videos (the phrase most said before disaster?) on how to apply veneer edge banding to plywood. Iron dry, and cautiously as it's so easy to burn. Or you could take a narrow paint roller and roll on aliphatic or some other glue, clamp, etc. The steam setting is for raising scratches and dings in raw or finished wood. Seriously.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:22
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I already threw a bunch of it on the burn pile, I still have it quarantined in the middle of my driveway and it was only the wood that was stored in the garage that got them. I'll go through it again and be a little less selective on what I chuck. When I said 130 it gets at least that because thats as high as the thermostat on the exhaust fan goes after the plants are all gone in the summer but I can see what you say where 12hrs a day wouldn't get the center of the wood hot enough. it does a drat good job drying lumber from late june to october though. I do most of my work outside on the slab in front of my garage or in the room (unfinished remodeling) where its going, more room to work and I have more tools than space. The tools, cars, kayaks, and motorcycles all need to share the garage for now.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:40
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tangy yet delightful posted:I've watched some youtube videos (the phrase most said before disaster?) on how to apply veneer edge banding to plywood. Are you putting the veneer on before you finish the building/putting together? It doesn't have to have the work edge up as you apply. How thick of a veneer are you applying? I use a random cheap iron with no water. I always use a wider stip than I need (1" for 3/4" for example) and start at one end. Keep the iron moving so its never just resting on one spot and get the first "iron and a half" length stuck, then just keep working down about the same length at a time. Then I just trim with a razor blade keeping it flush with the face followed by a sanding block to break the edge and clean up any hairs/bumps.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:07
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Granite Octopus posted:His projects are great. Some are pretty ambitious though so might be off-putting to a newcomer. Just a bit inland from the sunshine coast in QLD
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Aug 17, 2020 21:25
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Mr. Mambold posted:The steam setting is for raising scratches and dings in raw or finished wood. Seriously.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:27
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:This has saved my bacon many times. You can put a wet rag between iron and wood for extra steam. Sometimes it takes a few times of doing it, but it’s pretty amazing how big of dings it will raise. Do not use on antiques you didn’t realize were veneered! Or just spit. 
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Aug 17, 2020 22:25
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Mr. Mambold posted:Iron dry, and cautiously as it's so easy to burn. Or you could take a narrow paint roller and roll on aliphatic or some other glue, clamp, etc. The steam setting is for raising scratches and dings in raw or finished wood. Seriously. JEEVES420 posted:Are you putting the veneer on before you finish the building/putting together? It doesn't have to have the work edge up as you apply. How thick of a veneer are you applying? I've got some 7/8" wide spanish cedar banding from veneersupplies.com to use on my 3/4" thick Cedar veneer plywood from HD. I do have a razor blade holder thing so I'll try using that it's probably less likely I gently caress up versus using a chisel.
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Aug 18, 2020 00:29
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Spanish cedar (a flowering tree/angiosperm native to the neo-tropics) and close cousin to mahogany and Aromatic cedar (eastern red-cedar, a coniferous gymnosperm native to temperate/subtropical N. America) are about as botanically unrelated as two trees can be and yet they both get called cedar and have nothing in common as woods except they both smell and are somewhat rot resistant. Trade/common names for wood are dumb. Spanish cedar probably isn't going to be a perfect color (or even smell) match for aromatic cedar, but I doubt redcedar edgebanding exists. Eastern redcedar is such a funky color it's kind of a hard wood to match. You could make your own edgebanding by ripping 1/16" slices off a redcedar board on the tablesaw and putting 2 coats of yellow glue on one side and then ironing on? A flush trim bit in a small router works well for trimming edgebanding too. Razor blade can be a bit tricky but is definitely the best low tech solution. You don't want to cut the plywood veneer or cut too deeply into the egdebanding so it requires a little finesse. I usually get pretty close and then sand until everything is just flush.
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Aug 18, 2020 01:51
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Ah yeah I did notice when I opened the box that the grain and coloring looked different and was like "hmm this may be interesting at best". Given that this is for a hobby/painting table that will mostly be covered by a mat I will probably just slap this on and see how it looks (I'll post pics), because I also don't have any cedar boards or a table saw also I don't have a router 
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Aug 18, 2020 02:16
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Rutibex posted:
But hey, that sweet sweet burned maple syrup smell!
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Aug 18, 2020 02:23
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Beardcrumb posted:Just a bit inland from the sunshine coast in QLD Maleny region or further south?
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Aug 18, 2020 02:50
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The last time i used my router table the router shifted in the mounting relative to the fence and ruined the workpiece and I haven't really used it since (except as a jigsaw table)
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Aug 18, 2020 09:58
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McSpergin posted:Maleny region or further south? Yandina mate
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Aug 18, 2020 14:35
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Mr. Mambold posted:You sure the lovely ones aren't HSS? I swear ityool 2020 there are still some out there. Typically cheapo chinesium carbide sets will still be near freud quality. I used to buy Grizzly (taiwan) bits and shaper cutters all the time with nary an issue. Still got the router bits, they're fine. The lovely ones were labeled tungsten carbide, but I'm pretty sure they're Chinesium now. I just got https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KZM0CVU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and I did 10' of poplar, one cut, full pass with no issues. 
meatpimp fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 16:59
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Beardcrumb posted:Yandina mate Nice, I got a mate out that way who's a cabinetmaker. Cooloolabin to be precise. He's currently flattening some chopping boards for me while I can't get access to a makerspace I usually use down here in Sydney
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Aug 19, 2020 05:15
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Babby's first rule joint, cut on the router table (I need a real router table):  I've fixed a bunch of these because it's kind of a bad joint and they break all the time, but I'd never made one. The layout was a little funny, but after 3 test joints it came out pretty well. It sort of almost 'clicks' into place in a satisfying way when the leaves are up, but I think that may be because it's too tight and it's stressing the thin little bit of wood on the edge of the leaf that always breaks?  I hate how you see the hinge mortises when the leaves are down but I couldn't find a way around that. The other option is to see a gap between the leaf and top when the leaves are down and you see a bit of the hinge anyway. Hopefully it won't jump out as much when it's stained darker.
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Aug 20, 2020 03:24
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Are you using actual rule joint hinges? It's a super weird shape that's hard to troubleshoot, but I think your leaf is slightly low, or the step in the top/point of the roundover in the leaf aren't deep enough. Usually with the leaf folded down, the pointy tip of the leaf roundover should be sitting a little ways up into the convex table roundover. That said, yours still looks great and I wouldn't personally worry about it. If the slightly visible mortise bugs you, I think a tiny chamfer on the table between the mortises would continue that shadow line and completely hide it.
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Aug 20, 2020 03:51
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Any recommendations for a router lift? Any reason I'd regret just getting Kreg's aside from the fact it costs $300? I don't really want to spend even $300 on a lift but I see a lot of complaints about the cheaper options and I already got bit myself on a cheap pre-made table that included "above the table" adjustments that turned out to be so unreliable I have to adjust the router manually anyways. Lot of router chat recently and I coincidentally just bought some lumber to build myself a custom router cabinet/table but hadn't yet decided on a lift.
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Aug 20, 2020 07:57
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Elem7 posted:Any recommendations for a router lift? Any reason I'd regret just getting Kreg's aside from the fact it costs $300? I don't really want to spend even $300 on a lift but I see a lot of complaints about the cheaper options and I already got bit myself on a cheap pre-made table that included "above the table" adjustments that turned out to be so unreliable I have to adjust the router manually anyways. I got the JessEm 02310 Rout-R-Lift II, but its pretty much in the same price range ($250 on Amazon). Being able to adjust from on top of the table is great but I still use a digital Wixey depth gauge to confirm. Are you going to be building the fence or buying one? I have been wondering how well a wood fence would hold up over time.
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Aug 20, 2020 14:27
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Hypnolobster posted:Are you using actual rule joint hinges? It's a super weird shape that's hard to troubleshoot, but I think your leaf is slightly low, or the step in the top/point of the roundover in the leaf aren't deep enough. Usually with the leaf folded down, the pointy tip of the leaf roundover should be sitting a little ways up into the convex table roundover. They are real rule joint hinges with the barrel mortised in even deeper than the leaves. I think I just need to sand/plane the top of the the ovolo where it meets the vertical edge of the top. I had to do that on my samples. I tried to correct for it it when I ran the piece but I don't think I got it all-not sure my router bits are exact matches. The pointy tip of the leaf does sit a little up on the concave roundover, you just can't really tell with the photo angle. Great idea about the little bevel and shadow line-I will definitely do that. JEEVES420 posted:Are you going to be building the fence or buying one? I have been wondering how well a wood fence would hold up over time. E: Speaking of router tables, anyone have any experience with grizzly router tables/lifts? https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Router-Table-with-Lift/T28780 vs https://www.woodcraft.com/products/...76f6f4cfa001ea0 Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 14:36
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JEEVES420 posted:I got the JessEm 02310 Rout-R-Lift II, but its pretty much in the same price range ($250 on Amazon). Being able to adjust from on top of the table is great but I still use a digital Wixey depth gauge to confirm. I was thinking a combination of aluminum channel and MDF for a fence, still looking at options and how big I want the thing to be.
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Aug 20, 2020 17:42
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Does anyone here harvest hard maple? I'm having trouble finding air dried billets or boards for my composite bowmaking. Kiln dried guitar neck blanks work more or less badly, and my local maple is less dense. That's no so ideal for some heavier # projects. I'm looking for some north american or canadian source.
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Aug 21, 2020 10:09
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Huge thanks to whoever posted that Alan Lacer skew video a while ago. Between that and an old Allan Batty (Are all good turners names Alan?) one my skew game has improved drastically. The realization that except when planing/peeling you pretty much always cut with the tip/point/corner (either tip) and keep the rest of the tool out of the way has really changed how I approach the tool. Batty makes the point about rolling beads that a smaller chisel has less leverage than a wider one and and less tool to accidentally catch and I’ve definitely found that to be true. Way fewer catches with my 1/2” one than my big 1 3/8”, but sort of the opposite when planing. I still can’t cut a square pommel for some reason-the tool always bounces around. I can see the appeal of a beading/parting tool now too-is it much better than using a skew or just another tool to sharpen/reach for?
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Aug 21, 2020 16:32
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Power Khan posted:Does anyone here harvest hard maple? I'm having trouble finding air dried billets or boards for my composite bowmaking. Kiln dried guitar neck blanks work more or less badly, and my local maple is less dense. That's no so ideal for some heavier # projects. There was a story that in the 70's or 80's, the Japanese were intrigued with bowling and took to building hundreds of bowling alleys. Which uses, of course, traditionally laminated hard northern maple (as opposed to soft southern, yes it's 2 different things) at something like 10/4 thickness, and bought up a huge percentage of the American harvest. Which caused the price to go way up. I know that doesn't help you, I was just reminded of that anecdote by your appeal. Does hickory not suit? I thought it was somewhat flexible, and it's hard as heck. What did Robin Hood use? Boxwood?
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Aug 21, 2020 16:43
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:My homemade MDF fence is basically fine except the sacrificial MDF fences warped a bit. A few shims straightened it back out, but something more stable like phenolic would definitely be nice. I think Cast Iron would be better than phenolic, even plastics can warp over time and weight. The Grizzly also has the router dust box where the Jessem doesnt. However the edge mount fence and lift are better than the grooved fence and lift. The Jessem also has a digital readout making adjustment that much easier. Buy them both and use the Grizzly table and Jessem hardware, sell the left overs  Elem7 posted:I was thinking a combination of aluminum channel and MDF for a fence, still looking at options and how big I want the thing to be. That was kinda the direction I was going until I started to price it all out and it doesn't seem to save all that much money. Although, I can see the benefit if you're building a custom sized table.
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Aug 21, 2020 16:44
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Yew is what was historically used for making bows in Europe.
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Aug 21, 2020 18:25
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Mr. Mambold posted:There was a story that in the 70's or 80's, the Japanese were intrigued with bowling and took to building hundreds of bowling alleys. Which uses, of course, traditionally laminated hard northern maple (as opposed to soft southern, yes it's 2 different things) at something like 10/4 thickness, and bought up a huge percentage of the American harvest. Which caused the price to go way up. European Yew (Taxus baccata) was the traditional wood for bows in the British isles, and I assume elsewhere in Europe. I've never seen it available in the US. There is a (related) north american species called Pacific Yew (Taxus brevifolia) that grows on the west coast, but it is also apparently rare and difficult to obtain, growing in isolation rather than dense stands and not frequently harvested. Also modern composite bowmaking is different from traditional english or welsh longbows, which I believe were made from a single contiguous piece of wood rather than a laminate. I assume any bowmaker would give their eyeteeth for a yard of good yew, but it might not be the right stiffness or whatever for Power Khan's project.
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Aug 21, 2020 20:24
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Osage Orange is also supposed to be great for making bows but hard to find commercially. One of its many common names (bodark) is a corruption of the French ‘bois d’arc’ whuch basically means ‘bow wood’ and it was used for that purpose by native Americans extensively. Power Khan posted:Does anyone here harvest hard maple? I'm having trouble finding air dried billets or boards for my composite bowmaking. Kiln dried guitar neck blanks work more or less badly, and my local maple is less dense. That's no so ideal for some heavier # projects. A friend of mine uses these guys outside of Asheville, but idk if they’d have much interest in shipping a board if you’re not local. https://www.beetreehardwoods.com/
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Aug 21, 2020 21:23
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Osage Orange is also supposed to be great for making bows but hard to find commercially. One of its many common names (bodark) is a corruption of the French ‘bois d’arc’ whuch basically means ‘bow wood’ and it was used for that purpose by native Americans extensively. I'm on the other continent with the castles and all. It's not so hard to find staves of that, but osage is notoriously twisty and full of all sorts of defects (pin, knots, ingrown thorns) that make it not really first choice for what I'm doing. It's great wood for selfbows, but +0.75 specific gravity is way too much as a core wood. It also needs to be degreased before glueing. Maples are generally prefered, because they're easy to glue and it's not so hard to find flawless pieces. What I need is basically a blank for a guitar neck. I bought some of those in the last years, but the stuff always ends up making terribly twisted bows. Ideally a couple of split billets would be great, but I'm also happy with some flatsawn boards with nice parallel grain visible on the side, or a 5cm thick quatersawn board. e: I'll check out the website Power Khan fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 21, 2020 |
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Aug 21, 2020 22:00
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Wait so you want a north american or canadian source, that will ship to Europe?
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Aug 21, 2020 22:10
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Yes
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Aug 21, 2020 22:36
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Leperflesh posted:Wait so you want a north american or canadian source, that will ship to Europe? Good luck! I doubt you will find that, but I hope you do. Something that comes to mind is that air dried wood isn't heat treated (normally part of kiln drying) which kills all the bugs etc. Not being heat treated might cause problems for import since it might still have bugs in it? If you are in northern Europe, I would imagine sugar maple (which is hard maple) gets used as a park/street tree some. Finding one that is getting taken down and splitting billets out might be your best bet. I looked up the numbers and of the European maples, Field Maple (Acer campestre) seems like the closest to hard sugar maple. Field maple is not as hard, but the elastic modulus/modulus of rupture which are probably most important for bow making are the closest. Norway maple is a bit weaker, but a much better option than sycamore maple. https://www.wood-database.com/hard-maple/ https://www.wood-database.com/field-maple/ https://www.wood-database.com/norway-maple/ I put hard maple's numbers into the wood database wood finder thing and it looks like beech is actually mechanically very similar? I know there's tons of it in europe and it steam bends well, but maybe there is some other property (beech being sort of open pored? not as stable as hard maple?) that makes it not a good substitute. https://www.wood-database.com/wood-...tio=1.70%2C2.00
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Aug 21, 2020 23:38
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