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What's kind of weird is that shaders were a great incentive for engagement or microtransactions in D1. Now that they're consumable, they're mainly just a source of frustration not tied to any particular events or purchases. As far as sensible DLC, the old system worked fine.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:19
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Digirat posted:Man I already play warframe, if I'm going to get into a different low quality grindy waste of time then the space barbie action at least needs to be on par.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:20
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LawfulWaffle posted:So does Overwatch, which is perfectly enjoyable without ever having to spend a cent on loot boxes. Just giving people the option to throw away their money doesn't make a game inherently bad. No. Destiny is bad. Overwatch is also bad. These games are bad. Stop buying bad games. Radioactive Toy posted:I recently found out that the library down the street from me stocks a BUNCH of video games. Played through Titanfall 2 last week and picked up Nier: Automata yesterday Here is an example of a good goon.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:39
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PS4 games in a library collection seems rad. I hope they shelved Nier with the Sartre books
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Sep 8, 2017 18:50
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Shaders were somewhat rare - at least the good ones. And it seems in this game they drop like loving candy. I will not be surprised if all bosses in the raid drop shaders like crazy not to mention the chests that will be littered around the place
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Sep 8, 2017 18:52
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Here is an example of a good goon. Titanfall 2 makes everyone a better person. So does Bloodborne. This discussion about shaders in our second Bloodborne thread was weird. 
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Sep 8, 2017 19:01
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Vintersorg posted:Shaders were somewhat rare - at least the good ones. And it seems in this game they drop like loving candy. I will not be surprised if all bosses in the raid drop shaders like crazy not to mention the chests that will be littered around the place Yeah, someone asked the director about it and his response was that ideally people will figure out where their favorite shaders come from and grind there to get as many as they want. Still a shame that it makes changing up your look so much less smooth and spontaneous, though. Especially in these early days where no piece of gear stays useful beyond a session or two.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:09
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Destiny 1 had shaders that could only be purchased with real money. Destiny 2 does not. Destiny 1 had emotes that could only be purchased with real money. Destiny 2 does not. Destiny 1 had vehicles that could only be purchased with real money. Destiny 2 does not. Destiny 1 had emblems that could only be purchased with real money. Destiny 2 does not.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:11
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veni veni veni posted:We did strikes but it was just the same thing over and over which was boring as crap. Vault of glass wasn't out when I sold it ,and I don't even remember what a nightfall is. A Nightfall is a strike but the enemies have different numbers for their health and damage.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:15
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The only defence of the consumable shaders the people can muster is "well so many drop from activities that they're basically unlimited". "They're totally fine if you pretend they don't have the property that distinguishes them from the thing we're comparing them to," is one heck of an argument.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:18
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Nightfalls have modifiers that rotate weekly. Stuff like elements doing more damage (void, fire, arc), enemies melee harder, enemies don't get stunned, etc. I think initially it had it that if your squad died you went to orbit and started over. doingitwrong posted:The only defence of the consumable shaders the people can muster is "well so many drop from activities that they're basically unlimited". Yeah, im just gonna call you a straight up loving idiot. It's a loving COSMETIC COLOURING TOOL.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:19
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WE FEASTIN' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZpa6CF8iyA&t=11s
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Sep 8, 2017 19:33
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Vintersorg posted:Yeah, im just gonna call you a straight up loving idiot. It's a loving COSMETIC COLOURING TOOL. if the barbieing aint good your game aint good
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Sep 8, 2017 19:40
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Vintersorg posted:Yeah, im just gonna call you a straight up loving idiot. It's a loving COSMETIC COLOURING TOOL. I like playing dress-up with my digital dolls. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If the shaders are consumable and available for purchase it is because Bungie thinks that people will spend money on them. Defending against people who say "hey that's a kind of shady way of getting more money out of people" with "well no one will probably actually spend money" is naive and defending against that with "you're an idiot, this is all just cosmetics no one needs it" is pretty silly. I don't need cosmetics for my characters, sure. Nor do I need to own Destiny or a PS4 for that matter. I'm mean, I'm over here playing all-you-can-eat Fashion Souls in Bloodborne and having a lovely time. But this is a discussion forum about video games and I like talking about the design decisions that go into video games and this particular design decision is interesting and kinda consumer unfriendly.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:41
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The things drop in game though. They aren't behind a paywall at all. Sure, you can pay to get more chances at the slot machine but it's not unfair at all.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:43
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So a bazillion one-time dies drop and there is no separate menu for them? Somebody made a boo boo. Do they at least not take up an inventory slot? Not to mention that one-time use stuff make for lovely inventory management in general. If you don't know when you get the next one you will keep them all. Nestling you know 324 colours in your inventory. The right way to do it is to make dies an equitable non-consumable or a craftable resource.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:55
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Vintersorg posted:Yeah, im just gonna call you a straight up loving idiot. It's a loving COSMETIC COLOURING TOOL. You're the one defending bad games that arbitrarily limit your dress up options in order to encourage purchases and exploit people's compulsive traits and other psychological exploits But ya sure the other guy is the idiot These practices are only common because of y'all, go play bloodborne or something if you want a reminder of what gaming can be when it doesn't get all garbagey
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Sep 8, 2017 19:57
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Hopper posted:The right way to do it is to make dies an equitable non-consumable or a craftable resource. The right way to do it is to simply let you change any color at will, why does there need to be an item attached? Does allowing players to switch colors hurt anything other than the profitability of microtransactions? The game sells at a full sixty bucks oh no god forbid they let you have fun with it and customize to your heart's desire Have some standards for yourselves!!! So many good games out there rn
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Sep 8, 2017 20:01
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Keep raging against poo poo that doesn't affect you. The shaders drop everywhere. Some are rarer, some are only in bright engrams, some are only in raids. But if you play the game --- *GASP* --- you'll have your chance. The system is fine. If people wanna spend extra money why do you gotta get in their way? "OH ITS A SLIPPERY SLOPE! SOON THEY'LL CHARGE TO HAVE THE BEST poo poo!!" KingSlime posted:The right way to do it is to simply let you change any color at will, why does there need to be an item attached? Does allowing players to switch colors hurt anything other than the profitability of microtransactions? They do though - when I go home tonight and play a little bit - I'll get more shaders from doing activities in the game. I can customize to my hearts content if I desire.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:02
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Lol it absolutely is a slippery slope have you not been paying attention? They have you morons paying for digital grab bags now hahaha, they don't even filter out repeats like some lovely predatory capsule machine Except it's not real, it's all fake
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Sep 8, 2017 20:03
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KingSlime posted:The right way to do it is to simply let you change any color at will, why does there need to be an item attached? Does allowing players to switch colors hurt anything other than the profitability of microtransactions? I totally agree, colour customization in mmos should be standard lest everybody be a bald clone commando, see Star Citizen. But if you must make it a resource, non-consumable is the way to go.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:03
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Most modern games should realistically cost like $100 or more by now because of all the poo poo that goes into it anyways.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:12
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I'm catching up on the last couple pages of discussion about lootboxes and shaders and raids and I have just one question: what's Destiny
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Sep 8, 2017 20:13
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KingSlime posted:Lol it absolutely is a slippery slope have you not been paying attention? Why do you care what people spend their money on?
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Sep 8, 2017 20:15
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IcePhoenix posted:Most modern games should realistically cost like $100 or more by now because of all the poo poo that goes into it anyways. Maybe but the industry has also seen very very healthy growth so in theory wouldn't the added volume of consumers help offset this quite significantly? It's stupid how big video games are. There is no shortage of profits to be made if you make quality content At least that's my general interpretation of the state of the industry as an average consumer who sometimes reads random poo poo online
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Sep 8, 2017 20:15
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Vintersorg posted:Why do you care what people spend their money on? It's not a hard of a concept to get, really. The more publishers see how effective these practices are, the more you see these features in your AAA games that you are already paying full price for Which makes it slightly harder for me to avoid this type of garbage. I don't know how long you have been following gaming for but uhh this stuff has really exploded and it only gets worse every year I certainly don't care about anybody else's dumb spending habits in the least bit this is strictly out of self interest
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Sep 8, 2017 20:18
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Detective No. 27 posted:It's fine. It reads diagonals that you arent pushing.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:25
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Real hurthling! posted:It reads diagonals that you arent pushing. For you.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:28
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Detective No. 27 posted:For you. Me too
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Sep 8, 2017 20:29
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acksplode posted:I'm catching up on the last couple pages of discussion about lootboxes and shaders and raids and I have just one question: what's Destiny
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Sep 8, 2017 20:32
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D1 is cool and all but yeah if you want a single player campaign a la Borderlands and don't want to do coordinated multiplayer poo poo then I honestly have no idea why you'd even consider it Destiny was never about the campaign. I'm almost finished with it and have no idea what's going on. Any long cutscene is white noise. The fun is doing coordinated group poo poo and giggling in the mic when someone reaches light 69
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Sep 8, 2017 20:34
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Microtransactions really are getting out of hand because people tolerate it. It was the same with season passes. Suddenly people realised that the latest season passes were horseshit and started complaining, but for years they accepted semi-finished games that were missing content only to be sold that content for a premium afterwards. To express it with a bit of hyperbole: Pointing out lovely business practices is absolutely necessary. Because guess what happens if you think something isn't so bad and won't lead to worse things and therefore stay silent. Trump.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:36
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Ya but if a game is fun and or your friends play said game then you're gonna eat it up at some point anyways. Like, I'm not gonna wait a year to play a game to save $20
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Sep 8, 2017 20:38
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Comparing the character customization options between a Souls game and Destiny is incredibly disingenuous. Souls have more options when it comes to the face and body type. Destiny has more options for the color of the gear. You say you play dress up with Dark Souls but you can play just as much dress up in Destiny. There is no gear that is behind a paywall. The gear in Dark Souls is always the same color, the gear in Destiny comes with a pre-equipped shader based on where you received it so two people wearing the same outfit can look distinctly different without using any consumables. Destiny 1 had a bunch of Sparrows (the hover bike/landspeeder) that had the same model with different colors, many available only through purchase with real money. Most Sparrows in Destiny 2 have varied body types but come in white so you can color them as you wish. Same with the space ships. Some higher rarity vehicles have patterns that the shader affects differently. In this way, D2 is more consumer friendly than D1. Hopper posted:So a bazillion one-time dies drop and there is no separate menu for them? Somebody made a boo boo. Do they at least not take up an inventory slot? To whit, it's okay if you think any in-game purchasables are a gaming sin; I agree that when I buy a game I want the whole game. But the way Destiny 2 has handled it is the most inoffensive, passive method of allowing people to be separated from their money to gain nothing they wouldn't with an hour of their time. I have bought Destiny 2 and I have access to everything it has to offer; I will never buy a Bright Engram because I earn them with every level, several times during the course of a play session. When I want to change the color of something I will have the resources to do so because I'm not using them all immediately and on things I will throw away in 20 minutes.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:42
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haveblue posted:Yeah, someone asked the director about it and his response was that ideally people will figure out where their favorite shaders come from and grind there to get as many as they want. That sounds loving terrible lol
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Sep 8, 2017 20:54
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Hopper posted:Pointing out lovely business practices is absolutely necessary. Because guess what happens if you think something isn't so bad and won't lead to worse things and therefore stay silent. Pretty much. Consumer expectations absolutely inform product features, something that is conveniently forgotten when people accuse others of WHY U CARE THO I feel like US History (which I thought was a forced class in every curriculum stateside) does a fantastic job of illustrating why you should care about stuff that "doesn't affect you"
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Sep 8, 2017 20:56
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One of the craziest parts in US history was when the president declared martial law in 1993 and was assassinated in the throne room of the white house by a robot suicide bomber
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Sep 8, 2017 21:22
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IcePhoenix posted:Most modern games should realistically cost like $100 or more by now because of all the poo poo that goes into it anyways. People have been saying this for years and it's absolute bullshit. It's a 90billion dollar industry, they don't need help staying alive, they don't need more consumer concessions. Development tools are so much more powerful than they were in the 90s when they charged $50 for a game made by 7 people, back when the purchasing power of the dollar wasn't absolute garbo. Devs need to wise the gently caress up and realize that people don't owe them a goddamn thing. Good content will sell, maybe in the short term or maybe in the long term, and not every game needs to be a 'platform'.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:51
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It does cost more to make a 3d hd flowerpot than a 2d pixel one but yeah your point is still good
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Sep 8, 2017 21:54
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Games are expensive here in  right now. $90 which is about $76 US and that is before taxes.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:58
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