|
Pick posted:Also it amazes me the dude who played Dukat was so fuckin rail thin that he makes nana visitor look normal ! Surprised this wasn't one of your drawings
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 10:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 02:27 |
|
|
Kind of the point of the Federation is that humanity in particular is all too aware of its long, brutal history and takes pains to try to avoid repeating it, the Prime Directive's point mainly being to prevent the horrors of colonialism and avoiding any more militarism than absolutely necessary. (and we see demonstrated how Starfleet can still pose a threat to Federation democracy with a corrupt officer in the right place and a bunch of jingoistic cadets) Likely Starfleet officers are taught to never whitewash their history. (someone oughta tell the Vulcans that)
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 12:01
|
|
|
Kitchner posted:It was a much better time when you could drink your lunch, smack the secretary on the rear end, and use derogatory slurs in the office without fear of reprimand. Sisko was the first actual African-American main character in Star Trek. He was shown to have a deep passion for the history of his people throughout the entire series, from his roots in New Orleans to African statuary to probably a half-dozen things I can't remember off-hand (baseball would be part of it, given its quintessentially Americas (including Canada, Cuba, the South Americas, and Japan by post-war osmosis) cultural history). He CARES about history, and specifically the history of African-Americans. I really don't get why so many people don't get why he would care about this more than your average human. It's completely plausible that he'd find it irritating (which is as far as he went with it, it's not like he tried to stop anyone else from going, or even said anything about it until Cassidy directly poked him during the heist episode).
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 12:43
|
|
|
It's not like half of DS9's alien characters aren't obsessed to some extent with their history and culture in a comparable way. Bashir and Garak even engage in some cross-cultural exchange, with amusing results. I do like that Garak is shocked that 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf' is a children's story.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 13:25
|
|
|
Don't forget Sisko literally lived through racist 1950s America where he was blacklisted due to trying to write a short story with a black protagonist, saw his son killed by racist cops(it wasn't his son in that reality but he remembers the face still), and was committed for getting emotional about his systemic oppression. That was his Picard flute experience. So he lived through all of that before Vic's was up and running.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 14:15
|
|
|
Kitchner posted:Surprised this wasn't one of your drawings I friggin may, but I was already working on a picture of Dukat and had a Dukat episode running for reference (the one where they laugh for like ten minutes about him hurting his butt) and was looking over like yeesh man eat a space burger already 
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 14:33
|
|
|
Please don’t thin shame.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 14:34
|
|
|
TNG Genesis is basically just VOY Threshold, except replace "virus" with "transwarp" and "de-evolve into lizards" with "super-evolve into lizards"
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 20:17
|
|
|
simplefish posted:TNG Genesis is basically just VOY Threshold, except replace "virus" with "transwarp" and "de-evolve into lizards" with "super-evolve into lizards" 
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 20:22
|
|
|
simplefish posted:TNG Genesis is basically just VOY Threshold, except replace "virus" with "transwarp" and "de-evolve into lizards" with "super-evolve into lizards" don't you dare man does the prop for the visor look like shiiiiiiiiit in close-ups.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 20:27
|
|
|
simplefish posted:TNG Genesis is basically just VOY Threshold, except replace "virus" with "transwarp" and "de-evolve into lizards" with "super-evolve into lizards"
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 21:19
|
|
|
Ghostlight posted:I mean, they were written by the same guy. Haha wow. It wasn't Menosky was it? I hope not. His stories can get pretty whack but iirc he's never written anything truly awful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 21:33
|
|
|
Beerman
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 21:57
|
|
|
At the episode with alexander killing himself like he did irl earlier this month 
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 22:00
|
|
|
simplefish posted:TNG Genesis is basically just VOY Threshold, except replace "virus" with "transwarp" and "de-evolve into lizards" with "super-evolve into lizards" Also the episode where Worf beats a helmsman to death and nobody even cares
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2018 23:51
|
|
|
Just watching the DS9 episode Shadowplay, and it does more for the idea of holograms being people in half an hour than three seasons of hamfisted Voyager plots focusing on the idea like it's a big moral quandary. Goddamn, Voyager was terrible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2018 14:09
|
|
|
Neddy Seagoon posted:Goddamn, Voyager was terrible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2018 15:10
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 04:41
|
|
|
Pick posted:I friggin may, but I was already working on a picture of Dukat and had a Dukat episode running for reference (the one where they laugh for like ten minutes about him hurting his butt) and was looking over like yeesh man eat a space burger already This episode rules, i really enjoyed the interaction between dukat and kira when he was in that nebulous antihero phase
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 05:49
|
|
|
thrilla in vanilla posted:This episode rules, i really enjoyed the interaction between dukat and kira when he was in that nebulous antihero phase drat the writing on DS9 was something else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 05:54
|
|
|
thrilla in vanilla posted:This episode rules, i really enjoyed the interaction between dukat and kira when he was in that nebulous antihero phase It's the best period of Dukat, since they let his perception of himself seem relatable (even though "I did a loooot of war crimes" is hopefully not that relatable to the average viewer). He's a fun character at that stage because regardless of his attempted aloofness, he is way more emotionally-driven than he gives himself credit for, both in positive and negative respects. He has ambition and actually seems to care about what he is doing and why he's doing it. Obviously he is a bad dude, you know, based on the things he does, but compared to the staid Federation members he's just so damned magnetic. He's got so much humanity and presence.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 05:58
|
|
|
Even when Dukat gets like 12 seconds to mourn some random long-dead Bajoran lady we never met, he communicates so much pathos it's amazing. What's strange is his writing is sort of all over, but Marc Alaimo nails it every time, as an actor he runs circles around basically everyone else ever employed on a Star Trek series.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 06:01
|
|
|
There's definitely a theme running that Kira has a lot more in common with Dukat than she'd like, and she's aware of it. The difference is that Kira's capable of accepting her mistakes and adapting to new situations, while Dukat just doubles and triples down on his cultural and personal jingoism until they lead him to complete madness. While Dukat's usually played as the counterpart to Sisko, I feel there's actually a lot of role commonalities with Kira; both of them act as the primary liaison between their homeworld and a greater power that seems to incorporate it (the Dominion vs the Federation), both of them work tirelessly for said homeworld while frequently being at odds with its actual leadership and government, and a bunch of other stuff. And they're both very good at fighting dirty. (though Dukat doesn't learn the lessons from it; ironic given most Cardassians are shown to be very bad at guerilla warfare)
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 06:25
|
|
|
I think that's very true. That said, I think the show does a disservice often watering it down as a "quirk" with Kira. For example, her going over Sisko's head or generally being a rogue agent on the ship is always shrugged off, much like Quark doing things that almost get the station destroyed. For some reason the show is very uneven about who experiences any accountability.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 06:36
|
|
|
I think the thing is, Kira's theme is that she grew up with the system as her enemy, where accountability was a joke, and she's rightly skeptical of the entire idea. Especially since one of DS9's themes is showing how the Federation and its affiliated worlds certainly aren't free of corruption, systemic issues and irrational prejudice. It's something that if anything resonates especially strongly nowadays, where the idea of following the rules and working within the system as a tool of positive change has rightly become questioned.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 07:15
|
|
|
Yesss. Are there any more?
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 08:35
|
|
|
I'm on ENT now and... uhh... S1E6 - Vulcans can't lie, that's a Rule. They can twist the truth, that's a complexion in several episodes, but they shouldn't outright lie. Like c'mon... Also in this episode T'pol has a line about Vulcans NEVER attacking first. As if there was more evidence was needed of how bad STD is, how thr gently caress can she say that presumably knowing about the Vulcan Hello? Plus sucks for whoever is Hoshi - flawless communication with the Andorians straight off? As first contact? And given what previous episodes made such a big deal about communication over? E: wait wait WAIT Haley, age 7, apparently knows 1) USA used to be a thing before the nuclear holocaust and One World Government, and 2) thinks the ENT crew in S1E7 are from that extinct nation state? Wtf? simplefish fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
Pick posted:It's the best period of Dukat, since they let his perception of himself seem relatable (even though "I did a loooot of war crimes" is hopefully not that relatable to the average viewer). He's a fun character at that stage because regardless of his attempted aloofness, he is way more emotionally-driven than he gives himself credit for, both in positive and negative respects. He has ambition and actually seems to care about what he is doing and why he's doing it. Obviously he is a bad dude, you know, based on the things he does, but compared to the staid Federation members he's just so damned magnetic. He's got so much humanity and presence. Remember how they turned the character into a boring villain since he get such a positive fan response? Makes me think of the book on Saddam in prison in how ever time he managed to win over the hostile guards such that they would come to Saddam for relationship or would just bring him the types of food he enjoyed eating.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 19:55
|
|
|
I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed but it was less because of a "positive fan response" and more of a "Maybe Dukat was right" response. Like that little poo poo of a king on Game of Thrones, that was a positive fan response too but no one was going "Maybe he isn't such a bad guy after all" and I'm pretty sure at least a few nerds threw a party after he got dead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 20:34
|
|
|
There was an idea that Kira and Dukat would have a romance but Nana Visitor-Bashir was like no way Jose
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 21:10
|
|
|
Kira and Dukat as a couple would have been a terrible loving soap opera idea and I'd have eaten it up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 21:20
|
|
|
Kibayasu posted:I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed but it was less because of a "positive fan response" and more of a "Maybe Dukat was right" response. Like that little poo poo of a king on Game of Thrones, that was a positive fan response too but no one was going "Maybe he isn't such a bad guy after all" and I'm pretty sure at least a few nerds threw a party after he got dead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 21:52
|
|
|
Strudel Man posted:If they didn't want people to think Dukat was right, they shouldn't have demonstrated again and again how incapable of self-governance the Bajorans were. After gaining Independence the USA was completely incapable of governance for like 13 years. Bajorans have been free for like two. And they didn't even win independence, their conquerors pulled out for political reason and took most of their poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 21:59
|
|
|
Two separate problems? Was the continual portrayal of Bajorans as inept buffoons meant to put checkmarks in the "maybe Dukat wasn't so bad" column?
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 22:03
|
|
|
Strudel Man posted:If they didn't want people to think Dukat was right, they shouldn't have demonstrated again and again how incapable of self-governance the Bajorans were. Ha ha remember when the old religious leader straight up murdered that dude for trying to do a job better than his untouchable caste would allow, after like 3 days of that caste system experiencing a soft re-rollout. Ha ha and remember when that other random Bajoran guy straight-up murdered that Cardassian guy he didn't even know was pretending to be the old supervisor of a mining camp? And they want to have their acceptance into the Federation be expedited because their society has been busy terrorisming so much lately that they can't be held to the same standards as other planets?
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 22:18
|
|
|
Strudel Man posted:If they didn't want people to think Dukat was right, they shouldn't have demonstrated again and again how incapable of self-governance the Bajorans were. It's probably because at they best they were smug and at the worst they were backstabbing like Kai Winn aka Space Hillary.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
The Bajorans 100% do not deserve to be part of the Federation yet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 23:00
|
|
|
Pick posted:Ha ha remember when the old religious leader straight up murdered that dude for trying to do a job better than his untouchable caste would allow, after like 3 days of that caste system experiencing a soft re-rollout. Ha ha and remember when that other random Bajoran guy straight-up murdered that Cardassian guy he didn't even know was pretending to be the old supervisor of a mining camp? And they want to have their acceptance into the Federation be expedited because their society has been busy terrorisming so much lately that they can't be held to the same standards as other planets? And don't forget that village full of idiots that had to have to fight off that supernatural storm on regular intervals because otherwise they'd start fighting eachother.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 23:08
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/realGulDukat/status/1008773438373289984
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 23:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 02:27 |
|
|
i love that twitter
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2018 23:11
|
|