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SEKCobra posted:I mean admittedly I only used the all-terrain tires on my car for the duration that I owned it, but why the gently caress would you drive in snow without M&S tires??? Because they can be overwhelmed if you get deep snow. They don't work in less-than-smooth terrain. If you don't get snowfall enough of the year to make it worth a full set of additional wheels and tires.
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Sep 21, 2016 15:50
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bull3964 posted:I only really needed snow tires for about 3 days last winter in Pittsburgh. The rest of the winter, I would have been safer on all seasons. It only went below 40 three days last year? Snow tires aren't just for snow, they have better traction in cold weather.
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Sep 21, 2016 16:36
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Rubber is very sensitive to heat yo
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Sep 21, 2016 18:02
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BRB, patenting heated wheels.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:12
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Platystemon posted:BRB, patenting heated wheels. BRB, patenting heated roads. No need to plow. They run on coal.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:29
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Elephanthead posted:BRB, patenting heated roads. No need to plow. They run on coal. nah bro just get those solar roadways that have heating elements built in, melting ice doesn't take that much energy, right?
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Sep 21, 2016 18:45
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The proper solution is to just stay home and play video games on the three days a year there is snow on the road. If you live somewhere that has more snow than that, then you probably have good winter tires and it doesn't matter.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:48
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It's not worth wasting money thinking about, because our hovercars should be here any day now.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:48
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Elephanthead posted:BRB, patenting heated roads. No need to plow. They run on coal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia%2C_Pennsylvania
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Sep 21, 2016 18:55
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Godholio posted:Because they can be overwhelmed if you get deep snow. They don't work in less-than-smooth terrain. If you don't get snowfall enough of the year to make it worth a full set of additional wheels and tires. What are you talking about, snow tires work better in deep snow and work great offroad.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:13
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SEKCobra posted:What are you talking about, snow tires work better in deep snow and work great offroad. You two are arguing passed each other, snow tires and winter tires are two different types of tire that are both called snow or winter tires, depending on where you live, because you generally only need one type Snow tires are better in the deeper snow and on unplowed roads, winter tires are better with minimal snow and are significantly safer on dry roads at highway speeds This crap is why I hate common names
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Sep 21, 2016 19:32
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Elephanthead posted:BRB, patenting heated roads. No need to plow. They run on coal. They were busy installing those when I lived in Germany. Just run the heated water from your local waste to power plant under the streets, it saves building a cooling tower and it means all the houses get free hot water.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:48
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Over here in East Europe, there are summer tires, there are "M+S" tires (lovely tires that work bad in summer and bad in winter) and winter tires. The latter work both in much snow and not much snow. You can stick studs in some of them to make them noisier, too, though that doesn't really affect the handling much. This thread is the first I ever hear of "winter tires" and "snow tires" being a different thing. I would be happy to receive education on the subject.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:50
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Winter tires are summer tires but with a rubber compound that grips dry pavement well in the cold, snow tires actually have different tread to help punch through snow to the pavement underneath, and more siping to improve traction even on the snow itself, basically all-terrains with a winter compound.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:58
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Enourmo posted:Winter tires are summer tires but with a rubber compound that grips dry pavement well in the cold, snow tires actually have different tread to help punch through snow to the pavement underneath, and more siping to improve traction even on the snow itself, basically all-terrains with a winter compound. No, snow tires are designed to hold onto snow, because there's more traction snow to snow than there is rubber to snow.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:02
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There's no way any tire is going to "punch through" snow to get to anything underneath it. In any locale that gets persistent snow the driving surface turns into a solid sheet of ice. The pavement may as well not exist until the snow melts. Even studs don't really dig through it, they just create some additional friction against the ice. Though I've heard people don't really bother with studs anymore. I haven't driven an Alaska winter in like 20 years but the friends I got up there say stuff like Blizzak tires are just as effective.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:08
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that's what i get for assuming, I'm a floridian so ignore my wrong knowledge on anything cold 
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Sep 21, 2016 20:17
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xzzy posted:I haven't driven an Alaska winter in like 20 years but the friends I got up there say stuff like Blizzak tires are just as effective. Blizzaks (and similar compounds) are worth their weight here, because winter is so loving long (you can seriously have actual snow and ice on the ground from October through March/April). And no, snow tires don't "punch through" the snow, they minimize the effect of the melt-water layer created when you set anything on top of snow, and the winter compound rubber stays pliable into colder temps.
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Sep 21, 2016 21:54
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I love it when people who may have never seen snow tell us how snow tires work Also, have an impressively exploded New Venture Gear transfer case chain. I've got no clue how this blew apart that badly without holing the housing. 
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Sep 21, 2016 23:32
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Man, my point was that snow tires have structural differences in the tread, not just different rubber like winters. That much is at least accurate, right? Right? 
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Sep 21, 2016 23:43
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Yeah. They typically have a tread pattern designed to shed water (assloads of siping) and grip snow instead of self-cleaning (assloads of siping for grip and specially shaped tread blocks to avoid tread clearing) because the thing that sticks best to snow is other snow, not rubber. So you WANT the treads to load up with snow and stay that way for as long as possible.
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Sep 21, 2016 23:46
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I love my winter tires. I bought a close out set of Dunlop something or others for the Prius and they have been on year round for 50,000 miles now. They might even make it through the winter. The difference is astounding. While my neighbors Equinox gets stuck in the driveway or slides down sideways the Prius just goes right on through. Before I put them on I had to tow the car up the driveway with the tractor. The only time it's gotten stuck now was in 10" of unplowed snow. Thinking about getting a set of michelin ice-x for this year if the dunlops don't have enough tread.
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Sep 22, 2016 00:25
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kastein posted:I love it when people who may have never seen snow tell us how snow tires work This is really cute - it's as if it neatly disassembled itself into a pile for you.
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Sep 22, 2016 00:40
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Thats an impressive failure mode
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Sep 22, 2016 01:15
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Enourmo posted:Man, my point was that snow tires have structural differences in the tread, not just different rubber like winters. That much is at least accurate, right? Show me a snow tire that is not a winter tire and vice versa.
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Sep 22, 2016 03:05
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:This is really cute - it's as if it neatly disassembled itself into a pile for you. Someone from the fb group I saw it in said it best, it looks like robot diarrhea. After some headscratching I think either the sprockets slid over somehow or something else in the case moved over far enough to interfere with one side of the chain, wearing the heads of the rivets holding the chain links down until there was nothing left, at which point vibration and rotation would begin to fling link segments off until they were all gone in one spot, when the remainder would fall to the bottom of the case in a heap.
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Sep 22, 2016 04:11
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Modus Man posted:It only went below 40 three days last year? Snow tires aren't just for snow, they have better traction in cold weather. Modern all seasons in dry (and also wet, non-snow) cold temps actually perform better than pure snow tires. This has been proven out in tests quite a few times. The tread compounds are very similar so the temp doesn't have much of an effect, but the stiffer sidewalls and more stable tread give the lead to the all-seasons. All-season's lead in braking performance in cold and dry conditions is usually larger than the margin that snow tires have over all-seasons when braking on snow. Setting yourself up for the worst conditions you may encounter puts you at a greater level of risk than setting yourself up for your most frequent conditions. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 04:27
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Apparently you don't live in mass, I end up commuting in 3 to 6 inches of partially packed snow and/or untouched snow or on hardpack the plows haven't chiseled up yet very regularly in the winter.
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Sep 22, 2016 04:39
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kastein posted:Apparently you don't live in mass, I end up commuting in 3 to 6 inches of partially packed snow and/or untouched snow or on hardpack the plows haven't chiseled up yet very regularly in the winter. No, I don't. I never said 'don't buy snow tires'. I said run what you need for the conditions but don't go overboard on what you see as the worst. We get a handful of times a year where snow persists on the main roads longer than a couple of hours. The rest of the time, it's either a wet salt bath or a dry salt encrusted slab. I do have snow tires and I do eventually put them on in the winter, but it's rare that they give me much more of an advantage than the DWS I have mounted on different rims. I am no stranger to fun of feeling invincible bombing through powder with AWD and snow tires while everyone else is stuck, but 90% of my winter driving is dry salt covered highway at 25 degrees. You don't need snows for that and it will acutally compromise your safety in those conditions compared to a good pair of all-seasons like the DWS. My current setup on my WRX is Pilot Sport AS3's for 9 months and Continental Extremewintercontact for 3 months. The AS3s are great because they embarrass some dedicated summer tires when it's 90 degrees out, but the compound is adaptable enough to notice no real loss of performance down to the mid 20s and the tread can handle a dusting or so. That allows me to put off swapping tires by close to two months. I think last year the winters didn't go on until after Christmas and were off again before April hit. Meanwhile, the BRZ swaps from summer tires to all-seasons in the winter. That way, when we have warmer days in the winter and it's not a complete salty mess, I can leave the car with snow tires at home and take the car with tires suited for the conditions. If I only had one vehicle and didn't really have a place to store tires, I would just get a set of DWS and not look back. One year I was too lazy to swap on the snows and just ran the DWS through the winter and there was no real issue other than a slight amount of parking lot fun reduction. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 04:48
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bull3964 posted:Modern all seasons in dry (and also wet, non-snow) cold temps actually perform better than pure snow tires. This has been proven out in tests quite a few times. The tread compounds are very similar so the temp doesn't have much of an effect, but the stiffer sidewalls and more stable tread give the lead to the all-seasons.
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Sep 22, 2016 05:03
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Here is a comparison test. http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/tire-test-all-season-vs-snow-vs-summer.html Winter tire had more grip than all season in wet+ warm, i expect they will continue to do better the colder it gets. Only place the all season was better was warm and dry. And yes, i imagine there are some all-seasons that do better than some winter tires in wet/cold but not in general. And speaking of tires I've been thinking we could have a tire thread.
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Sep 22, 2016 05:17
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Galler posted:Do you have links to any of these tests? Bridgestone, Goodyear, and General Tire all seem to think winter tires are better than all seasons in all cold weather conditions. Here was one. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2009-winter-tire-test-comparison-tests What's funny is it's using pretty much the same tires as the test jamal posted and was done the same year, but got different results. For example, dry braking at 23 degrees F Pilot Sport A/S 128ft Pilot Alpin PA3 141ft X-Ice Xi2 158ft In wet but cold (also 23 degrees F) Pilot Sport A/S 139ft Pilot Alpin PA3 145ft X-Ice Xi2 174ft
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Sep 22, 2016 05:39
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When I lived in Minneapolis, I wasn't going to drive in the winter (Halloween-4/20) without my (non-studded) Nokians. Yes, some high percentage of the time, the road is dry and salty (aka too cold to snow), but when you least expect it you'll get a little melt that will freeze in just the wrong spot (likely a curve in a freeway on-ramp) and you'll be happy you had something with really decent ice performance. I will take a slightly reduced performance in expected conditions I can compensate for than reduced performance in unexpected, but reasonably likely situations. Additionally, useful for impromptu frozen lake hooning. Also, I'd be curious to see a test at colder temps because 23F isn't really that cold. [smug minnesotan.jpg] As an added note, one year we had a cold snap early and turning on RE-01Rs when it is 20F outside is something I don't recommend to anyone. Drifting while turning left through an intersection at otherwise reasonable speeds was interesting. nm fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 06:55
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Living in Scotland (our annual average daily high is about 10C (50F) with only a handful of days above 20C (68F)) if I can only have one set of tyres it'll be decent M&S types with the mountain and snowflake symbol, although I always make sure they test well in wet conditions as it's pisses down year round. I find it's the best option for keeping good to acceptable year round performance, and I much prefer running winter tyres in the summer to all seasons in the depths of winter. I've not noticed any wear / noise / fuel consumption issues - I'm sure all of them suffer but not to an extent that bothers me. The only time I notice a significant difference in summer is the drop off in performance on warm, torrential days with standing water but even then their performance seems on par with a so-so set of all seasons (like the kind of brand name eco-tyres that come on most new cars). Obviously, if you are driving spiritedly on a warm day they won't be on par with all season or summer tyres, but considering the best driving days in Scotland are often on dry days in winter or early spring (the roads are much quieter than summer, when the tourists descend) I'm happy with that compromise. Two sets of tyres are ideal of course, but given the restrains of cash, effort and logistics I'm happy to run winters all year round. stump fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 09:45
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I'm really confused by the semantics you guys throw around, here a snow tire is the same as a winter tire and any tire that is rated for driving on snow/ice has to have M&S on it. Which, HOLY poo poo, stands for Mud & Snow. So I don't know what kind of tire would be a "winter tire" that is for winter without snow o.O
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Sep 22, 2016 09:57
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Think of it as a snow tire with a less aggressive tread pattern. A winter tire has a cold-weather compound, but not necessarily has a knobby, snow-gripping tread. You'd use it for nearly exclusively city/highway driving in an area that gets balls-cold, but is otherwise fairly dry. It's for the innercity Michigan commuter that has plowed roads, and doesn't want to murder their gas mileage. You won't find them in all markets. The "M&S" symbol doesn't mean anything anymore. The set of 185/65/14 "Classic II" radials I got for my beetle have that on them, and they're nearly slicks with how shallow the tread is.
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Sep 22, 2016 10:03
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I believe while the m&s designation is somewhat meaningless, the "snowflake in a mountain" symbol denotes requires meeting some minimum performance in both Europe and the US. To further confuse things, the Goodyear Vector 4 season is an all season tyre with a snowflake in a mountain symbol. They designed to be used all year - I think I might buy a set next time I need tyres as they would be better than running winters year round. stump fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 10:26
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 Saw this on Reddit, sorry for the weird letterbox effect it has
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Sep 22, 2016 14:13
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nm posted:When I lived in Minneapolis, I wasn't going to drive in the winter (Halloween-4/20) Hah, my rule in Milwaukee for winter car storage is Thanksgiving-April Fool's. Checks out.
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Sep 22, 2016 14:26
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If you ever want to lose an afternoon and accomplish nothing, try reading reviews on tirerack. I think the service they provide is pretty neat, but loving hell using them to actually select a tire? Just shoot yourself in the head. Without fail the reviews alternate between "best tire ever!!!" and "never buying this brand again!!!" and they're all justified with complete bullshit. (I'm just sour because I recently had to purchase new rubber)
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Sep 22, 2016 16:17
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