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Mods do make the third world province-resource misallocation issue a bit better, both by adding more provinces/diverse resources generally and by adding in (or rather generally increasing scope and efficacy of) a type of decision that does RGO swaps based on tech gates.Phlegmish posted:Thanks for all the economical advice, what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense, even though I'm not quite sure yet how to effectively implement it in an actual playthrough. I find the trade screen and such to be very opaque, it's difficult to figure out which goods I should definitely be producing. if you get the latest DLC and post a save then I'll check it out. Just from a casual glance I'd say you have far too little pop generally and specifically in your industry/craftsmen to be competitive in 1930. Keep in mind by now your 1 size 5k workers factory is competing with some gigafactory in manchester that employs 200k workers and produces a third of that entire goods resource, and has the scale to (what often happens in late vicky) outproduce and flood the market causing the good to hit the price floor and cause massive amounts to be deleted from the game as wastage. You should try to cycle on/off subsidies to help guide your workers towards profitable factories while keeping your overall industrial workforce employed (key goods should stay subsidized), and generally work towards an eye to scaling and gaining competitive market shares in specific goods/chains/industries ThatBasqueGuy fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 18:27
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The Cheshire Cat posted:One thing I am noticing is all your factories are level 1. You really should be upgrading them - the ones that are making a profit likely can't actually produce enough goods to keep up with demand so you're leaving money and jobs on the table. If a factory is fully staffed and making a profit, you should upgrade it until one of those things isn't true anymore (on laissez faire and interventionism, capitalists can upgrade factories, but state capitalism and planned economy you have to do it yourself) I was eyeing over the screenshot, and rapidly realizing how bad I am at Vic2 despite the hours I have in it. Each factory can hold 10k people, right? So there's plenty of craftsmen available. Also, it seems like there ought to be more craftsmen at this stage in the game, but I might be way off. Something like 10-20% of the population feels right. I don't think there's any downside to upgrading factories a little too much, other than the cost of the upgrade. A level 2 factory with 10k craftsmen and a level 100 factory with 10k craftsmen are going to be exactly the same, except one has a lot more room for more workers. There's no recurring maintenance cost or anything.
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Aug 2, 2022 18:39
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Factories in Vicky are not the typical "build things as much as possible for more profits" building you usually see in strategy games. They take specific inputs (goods, pops) and generate outputs. Depending on your trade settings, some of those outputs go into your stockpile (where they can be used for various production) and the rest get sold on the markets at a price that depends on global economic conditions. Because of that, it's important to take your available resources and economic conditions into account when deciding how to do factories. It's not like the typical mapgame system where you can just slap down a building and assume it'll automatically provide a benefit over the long-term, nor is it something where you have full control over the inputs and it's just a matter of tweaking things and optimizing. If you mouse over the various elements in the factory interface, you can see info about why the factory is unprofitable. How much it's paying for the input goods, how much it's selling the output goods for, how many employees the factory has, and so on. I popped open your save, ran the factories for a bit, and picked one off as an example.  Why is this factory unprofitable? In this case, it's simple - it's unable to obtain any Coal. You have a bunch of factories that use coal as an input good, and even after buying up all the Coal available to you on the global market, you still don't have nearly enough Coal to supply all your factories. As a result, this factory isn't able to produce anything, and you don't make any money at all. But as long as the factory is still open, you still have to pay upkeep for it in the form of Cement and Machine Parts. And since you don't produce enough Cement and Machine Parts domestically to supply all your factories, you have to spend money to buy those goods off the global market. Now, what's the solution? There isn't one, really. World demand for coal exceeds world supply for coal right now in your save, you can't really do anything about that. You pretty much just have to leave the unprofitable coal-using factories closed. If global coal supplies catch up with demand, they might reopen and maybe even start making a profit (though that also depends on Oil demand). The same goes for a lot of your other factories, too. Just focus on upgrading and improving the factories that are consistently profitable, rather than trying to get all your factories profitable. Use the profit numbers as a guide to which factories are worth investing more into. You can't control supply and demand, but you can let it guide you.
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Aug 2, 2022 18:50
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Rynoto posted:A big problem with V2, and pdox games in general, is that european nations and to a lesser extent the US have significantly more granular states which allows them to easily supply many of their own goods while countries that should be resource rich in the rest of the world are instead limited to a handful of states that leave them unrealistically poor on even basics like food so they can't industrialize effectively even if they resist the europeans. There will probably be a lot of countries that don't produce the necessities for industrialization that could definitely develop those necessities.
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Aug 2, 2022 18:55
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Vizuyos posted:
and here's where the imperialism comes in
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Aug 2, 2022 18:55
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The Cheshire Cat posted:So long as your own income is positive, it's not actually that big a deal to have a ton of factories closed. What you want to subsidize are the goods needed for military and construction, and anything that might be needed as an intermediate good in producing them. Anything else you can feel free to leave to the whims of the free market. If the factories are closing it means that there probably just isn't enough demand for them, so it's unlikely your people are actually lacking in access to those goods. Huh. You're right, all my factories are level 1, and I'm not actually sure how that happened. My capitalists had been upgrading them since I started industrializing. What could have happened for them all to revert to level 1? I had a ruling party with Laissez-Faire for a while, I don't know if that has anything to do with it. e: as proof, here's a screenshot from ten years earlier:  Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 19:07
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Phlegmish posted:Huh. You're right, all my factories are level 1, and I'm not actually sure how that happened. My capitalists had been upgrading them since I started industrializing. What could have happened for them all to revert to level 1? I had a ruling party with Laissez-Faire for a while, I don't know if that has anything to do with it. When they close, they go back to level 1. It's really annoying
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Aug 2, 2022 19:17
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Hey guys, played to 2008 and could use some economy advice. Everything just seemed to fall apart even though I've got the latest finance techs - even unlocked all the inventions like collateralized debt obligations and credit default swaps. I've turned on subsidies for a bunch of firms that haven't gone under yet, but even though I'm spending trillions my poor strata POPs still have trouble affording their needs somehow?? Seems like the economic simulation just shits itself for no reason every few years. At least my synthetic opioid factories are still super profitable even though I also invaded Afghanistan to secure their opium RGOs for my market, so that's neat.
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Aug 2, 2022 19:24
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Phlegmish posted:I had a ruling party with Laissez-Faire for a while I think I have figured out why your economy is hosed...
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Aug 2, 2022 19:24
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Barnaby Barnacle posted:Hey guys, played to 2008 and could use some economy advice. Everything just seemed to fall apart even though I've got the latest finance techs - even unlocked all the inventions like collateralized debt obligations and credit default swaps. I've turned on subsidies for a bunch of firms that haven't gone under yet, but even though I'm spending trillions my poor strata POPs still have trouble affording their needs somehow?? Seems like the economic simulation just shits itself for no reason every few years. Lower taxes for wealthy pops too and wealth will trickle down to the poorer stratas, letting them afford their needs.
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Aug 2, 2022 19:34
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Thank you for this explanation, that makes things significantly clearer. I guess it's generally good advice to close factories that have trouble getting at least one of their inputs? Honestly, I think only liquor factories have been consistently profitable for me so far. Maybe I should just build a bunch of those. VostokProgram posted:When they close, they go back to level 1. It's really annoying Oof. Is there a more specific trigger, like does it only happen if the factories are closed by the AI after becoming insolvent? I'm pretty sure I had a bunch of upgraded factories just sitting there without any problems after I manually closed them. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 19:34
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also consider lowering your taxes if you have them maxed out. Here's how taxes work: you have a stat called tax efficiency that shows how much money you can actually tax. So if your have taxes set to 100 but your tax efficiency is at 30%, you'll only get 30%. Early game when your TE is low maxing taxes out is fine as you literally don't have the state organs to collect on them but late game you can run into issues where your pops can't afford to buy more than the minimum. So if your taxes are high, lower them until your just over breaking even and see if your dudes start buying more stuff
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Aug 2, 2022 19:43
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Barnaby Barnacle posted:Hey guys, played to 2008 and could use some economy advice. Everything just seemed to fall apart even though I've got the latest finance techs - even unlocked all the inventions like collateralized debt obligations and credit default swaps. I've turned on subsidies for a bunch of firms that haven't gone under yet, but even though I'm spending trillions my poor strata POPs still have trouble affording their needs somehow?? Seems like the economic simulation just shits itself for no reason every few years. You might get more specific advice if you asked the dedicated Dawn of Chaos thread!
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Aug 2, 2022 20:16
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Well, I finally stumbled upon a handful of consistently profitable factories, playing as Brazil in the 1930's: Synthetic Oil, Electric Gear, Automobiles, and Airplanes. I immediately set out to build more of these, and expand the ones I already had: Unfortunately the game ended a few years after that, so I didn't get to enjoy it much. All in all, I didn't accomplish much as Brazil, but I did manage to create a sizeable army, research nearly every technology, and conquer territory from Bolivia, Paraguay, and Uruguay. My first game could have gone worse. 
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Aug 2, 2022 20:40
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Agean90 posted:also consider lowering your taxes if you have them maxed out. And tariffs should be at zero if you're trying to build your industry, right? I had a weird thing where a sizeable portion of my middle class weren't getting any of their needs met (red in the pie chart), unlike working-class people, despite the latter actually being subjected to a higher tax rate. I never found out what was up with that. e: I went to check out the individual pops, and if I'm interpreting things correctly some of the goods they want aren't available on the market, for whatever reason:  I have no idea why. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 20:47
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Phlegmish posted:And tariffs should be at zero if you're trying to build your industry, right? Partially those charts lie and aren't to be relied upon as more than broad strokes, you can click on the small pop icon in the population tab for a detailed breakdown on that pops needs, education rate, political affiliations, etc...
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Aug 2, 2022 20:53
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I know Brazil is the consensus new player start in V2, but I think Russia might be even better. It's bigger but simpler, and you don't have to deal with elections or capitalists until you want to. You can easily expand in a bunch of directions and you get built-in safe colonization options that you don't need to race to specific techs to get. Prussia or Austria could theoretically start poo poo over Poland, but for the most part their attentions will be focused west and you can get into European politics at your own pace. You have crap starting literacy, but your pops should have an easier time importing than Brazil since higher ranked nations get first shot at world market goods.
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Aug 2, 2022 21:07
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I'm really happy that in V3 provinces can have multiple resource operations, so even a minor nation with only 3 provinces can produce more than 3 resources.
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Aug 2, 2022 21:11
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Phlegmish posted:Thank you for this explanation, that makes things significantly clearer. I guess it's generally good advice to close factories that have trouble getting at least one of their inputs? For the most part, yeah. Watch it for a little while to see if it's an intermittent supply issue (in which case subsidizing through the bad times might be appropriate), but a factory that consistently can't get enough raw materials to make anything is useless. The market simulation in Vicky 2 means that sometimes you'll just get screwed out of a good for a while and have to deal with it. Sometimes countries just aren't producing enough excess material to meet demand. And higher-ranking countries get first dibs on the global market, so a mere secondary power might be left with nothing because the Great Powers bought up the whole supply of whatever wasn't enough to go around. And supply and demand works on prices, too, so even if you manage to get some it'll be more expensive than normal.
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Aug 2, 2022 21:42
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The USA is a good new player country. The biggest problem is youhave only interventionist and laissez faire parties for most of the game so you don't get to direct industrialization as much. But plenty of resources and a population boom from immigration mean you can get a strong economy in the mid-late game.
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Aug 2, 2022 21:47
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Baronjutter posted:I'm really happy that in V3 provinces can have multiple resource operations, so even a minor nation with only 3 provinces can produce more than 3 resources. Yeah this is definitely the weakest part of Vicky 2 and what makes a lot of nations very frustrating to play. Not great being an entire nation that makes fish, and only fish.
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Aug 2, 2022 22:44
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Baronjutter posted:I'm really happy that in V3 provinces can have multiple resource operations, so even a minor nation with only 3 provinces can produce more than 3 resources. yeah it owns a lot
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Aug 2, 2022 23:34
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VostokProgram posted:I do not remember what specifically HoD changes but this is back in the days when expansion packs also included bug fixes, so it's pretty important. And the 3.04 beta adds additional bug fixes on top of that. Plus quality of life stuff like making certain spammy events less frequent. The beta will only work if you have HoD I think since HoD is version 3.03. Well, I bit the bullet and got Heart of Darkness. Which of these am I supposed to select now for the beta? The second one? 
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Aug 3, 2022 01:36
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Phlegmish posted:Well, I bit the bullet and got Heart of Darkness. Which of these am I supposed to select now for the beta? The second one? Iirc, the beta was rolled into the base version years ago now, so you don’t need any of them.
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Aug 3, 2022 01:42
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AnoHito posted:Iirc, the beta was rolled into the base version years ago now, so you don’t need any of them. Yep it's this. Don't pick any beta
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Aug 3, 2022 02:08
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Then I'm good to go. I might try my hand at colonization for my next game. I'm thinking Portugal, although it will go probably with my level of experience. Do they even get enough Colonial Power (which is apparently a mechanic in Vicky 2). I guess I'll have to upgrade my naval bases and build ships.
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Aug 3, 2022 02:23
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Phlegmish posted:Then I'm good to go. I might try my hand at colonization for my next game. I'm thinking Portugal, although it will go probably with my level of experience. Do they even get enough Colonial Power (which is apparently a mechanic in Vicky 2). I guess I'll have to upgrade my naval bases and build ships. I think Portugal is in range to do some neat stuff, you might be able to wall off most of Africa in a way that blocks every other power
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Aug 3, 2022 02:37
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Aug 3, 2022 03:16
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I forget if ships themselves give colonial power but naval bases definitely do. Also the scramble for Africa starts in 1870 and is gated by 3 inventions which lower the life rating requirement. Here's a guide: https://vic2.paradoxwikis.com/Guide_to_Scramble_for_Africa And this article is helpful too: https://vic2.paradoxwikis.com/Colonization
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Aug 3, 2022 04:05
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The way the inventions work, it's also a thing where you can't get too much of a head start even if you beeline directly for the techs because the odds of other nations discovering them jump up tremendously as soon as one of the great powers has them, so a good colonization strategy is to try to cut off as many routes into the continent as you can (since you can only colonize coastlines or territory adjacent to territory you already control) and then fill in the interior afterwards. Since a few GPs start with colonies already there (like the UK with South Africa) you can't 100% cut out the competition but you can end up grabbing a good chunk of the continent for yourself. Ships do give colonial power, with higher tier ships giving more, but not at a rate that retains efficiency per supply as you keep upgrading (since the supply cost jumps significantly for top tier ships). Ironclads give you the best colonial power per naval supply ratio, so you pretty much just want to make your entire navy out of ironclads if you want to maximize your colonial power (although you should probably save a bit for transports just so you can actually move troops around your intercontinental empire). The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Aug 3, 2022 |
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Aug 3, 2022 06:56
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You also want ironclads just for warfare purposes, since a fleet of them makes all the AI wooden fleets entirely obsolete.
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Aug 3, 2022 09:37
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Useful for those times you get into naval wars with the AI in mid-late game. Wait.
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Aug 3, 2022 09:41
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The crisis system almost guarantees that I fight GB and/or France at some point, and it's neat to just kill all their ships.
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Aug 3, 2022 15:22
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GrossMurpel posted:The crisis system almost guarantees that I fight GB and/or France at some point, and it's neat to just kill all their ships. I hope wars are more devastating in V3. World Wars 1-4 in V2 is not unheard of. Plus the whole royal navy getting slaughtered seems like revolution-tier trauma for Britain.
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Aug 3, 2022 16:04
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Phlegmish posted:Well, I finally stumbled upon a handful of consistently profitable factories, playing as Brazil in the 1930's: Synthetic Oil, Electric Gear, Automobiles, and Airplanes. I immediately set out to build more of these, and expand the ones I already had: Well, you did better than historical Brazil.
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Aug 3, 2022 16:27
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I hope wars are more devastating in V3. World Wars 1-4 in V2 is not unheard of. Plus the whole royal navy getting slaughtered seems like revolution-tier trauma for Britain. I'm definitely 100% in favor of explosive ends to any empire that gets its rear end kicked to that point.
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Aug 3, 2022 16:45
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A friend taught me how to play V2 recently. My second game was me as France and him as Spain. NGF attacked me for their cores in Alsace-Lorraine. It did not go well for them. They lost like a million men trying to end-around me in Switzerland - I got into the mountains first and we fought a battle there with me as the defender; it (the battle) lasted like five years and they lost most of their army there. By the end of the war I was murderizing conscripts that were popping up and immediately dying. They had zero brigades left at the end of the war. They kept attacking people after that and, I think, lost every future war. Seeing the German state just collapse on itself because it got its army killed by using its army to try to level a mountain in Switzerland would have been glorious.
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Aug 3, 2022 18:06
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The "forever battles" are one of the funnier consequences of the combat system in V2 and the way that army size grows but battle frontage shrinks over the game, making it very easy to just keep piling more and more brigades into a single unending combat. It's not particularly realistic for a world war to consist of basically one massive battle in a single territory with millions of participants but I suppose it is sort of in the spirit of WW1 that both sides are encouraged to just keep committing more resources to what could have been a relatively minor conflict, solely to avoid losing.
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Aug 3, 2022 19:27
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I just finished a USCA playthrough, and I'm happy to report that it went fairly well, albeit after a rough start where I struggled with having only one National Focus, very few soldiers, and nationalist rebels everywhere. The 'optimal strategy' of focusing on clergy/education/research early on did indeed pay dividends in the long run, and after a certain point I was making money hand over fist, mostly from taxing the poor. I had a Laissez-Faire party in charge for most of the game, but it actually worked out fairly well - I didn't have to look at the factory screen much, and they always built new railroads almost immediately after the research for them completed, so I assume they had enough money despite the high tax rate. I was able to carve out my own little empire in South America, with big brother USA helping me out. Honestly though, I probably could have done it by myself, I was so far ahead of the other Latin American countries in terms of military tech. In fact, the only thing stopping me from completely conquering Venezuela and Ecuador is that they both got sphered by the US, so the Americans' involvement was both a blessing and a curse.  I also made it to Secondary Power status right before the game ended:  Now, my Portugal playthrough from yesterday...I don't want to talk about it
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Aug 5, 2022 06:21
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I don't think I ever played a V2 game all the way to 1936 so good for you
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Aug 5, 2022 16:47
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