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Lastgirl posted:why? it's just a disillusioned voter because the jump from republican to sanders supporter on the rationale that "i was tired of lovely republicans" is bizarre. it's not like they hid what they stood for. it's like swearing off eating hamburgers because you don't like beef. it was always made of beef, why did you eat it in the first place!!
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Dec 24, 2016 17:37
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It actually feels kinda good saying "thanks, Obama" unironically.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:37
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Horseshoe theory posted:Nah, it's because under first-past-the-post the plurality takes all so you ultimately whittle down the option to two viable options and a bunch of guys that'll never aggregate a plurality and therefore siphon votes from the big two. Yes, and what do we do if one of those two options always loses?
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Dec 24, 2016 17:39
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yes, and what do we do if one of those two options always loses? well one doesn't always lose, which is evident by the fact that we have an incumbent democratic president
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Dec 24, 2016 17:40
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Hillary smashed into the loving wall because she wouldn't turn left, but when an Appalachian turns left, they tend to turn so drastically that they spin out into the infield and ultimately bury themselves both axles deep in the turf.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:41
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Concerned Citizen posted:because the jump from republican to sanders supporter on the rationale that "i was tired of lovely republicans" is bizarre. it's not like they hid what they stood for. it's like swearing off eating hamburgers because you don't like beef. it was always made of beef, why did you eat it in the first place!! Not everyone retains a static ideological viewpoint for their whole lives. Sometimes people have political journeys in reaction to the lived experience. Like how gamers go from being completely apolitical to avowed nofap white nationalists, because they got yelled at for saying the N word.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:41
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google murray bookchin
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Dec 24, 2016 17:43
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Concerned Citizen posted:well one doesn't always lose, which is evident by the fact that we have an incumbent democratic president Who was elected based on a unique charisma, and bad faith promises of progressive change - after what was at the time the worst presidential administration in history. Meanwhile Democrats can't get elected anywhere outside of highly concentrated urban metropoles, and entire regions of the country are effectively abandoned by the party. Oh yeah. I forgot to say I always loved you.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:46
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yes, and what do we do if one of those two options always loses? 
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Dec 24, 2016 17:47
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isn't that the definition of 'if this guy who probably won't win wins I quit forever'?
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Dec 24, 2016 17:48
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Tatum Girlparts posted:isn't that the definition of 'if this guy who probably won't win wins I quit forever'? Quitting the Democratic party isn't quitting politics.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:51
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Tatum Girlparts posted:isn't that the definition of 'if this guy who probably won't win wins I quit forever'? The DnD posters from the Trump thread have already fully and genuinely invested themselves into the idea of Trump ruling for 16 years minimum, launching all the nukes against random targets, and sponsoring right wing militias. Obviously there's no option for the Dems to win at all in this apocalyptic future our top pundits have dreamed up in a drunken stupor.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:52
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Concerned Citizen posted:because the jump from republican to sanders supporter on the rationale that "i was tired of lovely republicans" is bizarre. or it means he had cross appeal, primarymichigangeneralmichiganmapcomparision.jpg  forget it chuck, it's the economy~ you see, people have different ideas and stuff so when they identify with a party, they're coming with their viewpoint its not hardcoded, which is why blindly and strictly adhering to a guideline that makes you democrat is gonna hurt ya~ and as of now, democrats are in a tailspin, they have a massive identity issue so what does "im a democrat" really mean~ Lastgirl has issued a correction as of 17:55 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 17:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Quitting the Democratic party isn't quitting politics. Under the FPTP system, it is, actually (unless you join the GOP, of course).
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Dec 24, 2016 17:54
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zen death robot posted:Trump will nuke Poland  but with nukes
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Dec 24, 2016 17:55
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zen death robot posted:Trump will nuke Poland Given that PiS are a bunch of shitheads, this would actually be good...?
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Dec 24, 2016 17:56
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lamo the facists in poland and trump will get along famously i starting to think trump might actually nuke ISIS and implement GMI
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Dec 24, 2016 17:59
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Baloogan posted:lamo the facists in poland and trump will get along famously yes on the former, poo poo no on the latter
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Dec 24, 2016 18:00
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turn everything into glass at least it will be an exquisite sight... after all.. these violent delights.. have violent ends 
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Dec 24, 2016 18:01
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only nixon could go to china
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Dec 24, 2016 18:02
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(It also means there was an eight year gap between me leaving the Republicans and me declaring for Democrats. Republican party membership was more of a family tradition than anything, but poo poo with republicans got disgusting with how people were treating Obama)
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Dec 24, 2016 18:06
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Baloogan posted:lamo the facists in poland and trump will get along famously Trump said he loves the Kurds, why wouldn't he let them help us crush ISIS the normal way?
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Dec 24, 2016 18:07
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Horseshoe theory posted:Under the FPTP system, it is, actually (unless you join the GOP, of course). You can only play this card so many times before you begin turning off people en masse. The viability of the Democratic Party is not a natural law.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:08
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Fiction posted:Trump said he loves the Kurds, why wouldn't he let them help us crush ISIS the normal way? lamo if you think trump actually knows who or what the kurds are
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Dec 24, 2016 18:09
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Baloogan posted:lamo if you think trump actually knows who or what the kurds are baloogan we all know that doesn't matter wrt his policies
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Dec 24, 2016 18:10
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steinrokkan posted:You can only play this card so many times before you begin turning off people en masse. The viability of the Democratic Party is not a natural law. Actually, the existence of the GOP and Democratic Parties as 'big tent' parties is because in smaller form it would make it much difficult for a given party to win electorally under FPTP and ultimately if you want to push through your legislation, appoint your own judges and justices, etc. you're going to accept a 'big tent' rather than de facto surrender by having a bunch of smaller parties that fail to get seated or get a few token seats. It's really the same principle as a coalition in a Westminster parliamentary system.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:13
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Horseshoe theory posted:Actually, the existence of the GOP and Democratic Parties as 'big tent' parties is because in smaller form it would make it much difficult for a given party to win electorally under FPTP and ultimately if you want to push through your legislation, appoint your own judges and justices, etc. you're going to accept a 'big tent' rather than de facto surrender by having a bunch of smaller parties that fail to get seated or get a few token seats. It's really the same principle as a coalition in a Westminster parliamentary system. Different big-tent coalitions can form, though. Right now the Ds are a big tent of social progressives, economic liberals, and technocrats, but that could easily change or be replaced with something else.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:15
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Fiction posted:Trump said he loves the Kurds, why wouldn't he let them help us crush ISIS the normal way? the only thing trump loves more than actual allies are crazed dictators, so he's far more likely to support Erdogan's war on the kurds
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Dec 24, 2016 18:23
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Telegram the Whig party -- message is "are you loving kidding STOP we were part of a FPTP system too STOP we kept losing STOP please stop STOP" That'll be thirty-five cents collect. 
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Dec 24, 2016 18:31
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A regional party permanently breaking the FPTP duopoly could enable government and electoral reform. Build up from local to state to federal. Honest to god pro-[Average Person] politicians would be lovely. In the bag for Big Public.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:39
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Accretionist posted:A regional party permanently breaking the FPTP duopoly could enable government and electoral reform. maybe we could tone down the extreme messaging, w-we have to [fumbles for inhaler and puffs on it] we have to be sensible o-okay~ Hijack conveys like, a terrorist feeling or violence  Why don't we just... Occupy~
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Dec 24, 2016 18:40
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Fiction posted:Different big-tent coalitions can form, though. Right now the Ds are a big tent of social progressives, economic liberals, and technocrats, but that could easily change or be replaced with something else. Not sure 'easily' is the word I'd use here, but yeah, the Democratic Party could be supplanted by something else.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:42
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some leftists will leave and form regional parties, others will stay and try to reform the democrats the conservatives remain united and keep on winning lol
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Dec 24, 2016 18:42
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too bad all the third parties we have are dumb as hell and even worse at getting poo poo done then the Dems Why try to start small and local by getting canadates into city councils and state legislatures and work up way up to congress and the senate when we can make useless runs at the presidency<---the average third party
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Dec 24, 2016 18:43
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Serf posted:some leftists will leave and form regional parties, others will stay and try to reform the democrats In fairness, some conservatives wander off and become libertarians or whatever the gently caress Evan McMullin is, too.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:43
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docbeard posted:In fairness, some conservatives wander off and become libertarians or whatever the gently caress Evan McMullin is, too. yea both parties have lots of multiple factions and the Republicans aren't as united as you think, just wait until the victory high wears off~
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Dec 24, 2016 18:44
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perez is actually a fantastic and very progressive labor sec - i was hoping hillary would keep him on in her administration. he might not be ellison but he's not an establishment devil just because he's the establishment pick
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Dec 24, 2016 18:54
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Serf posted:some leftists will leave and form regional parties, others will stay and try to reform the democrats I honestly think forming leftist/socialist Regional Parties in big cities and metro areas is the only way this change can be done.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:55
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Lastgirl posted:yea both parties have lots of multiple factions We see all the inter-party drama among Democrats, liberals, leftists, progressives, and the other assorted idiots and weirdos who make up our broad coalition because we're in the middle of it. What Republicans are better at, I think, is presenting a united front to the public (and even that wasn't exactly in evidence so much this year). That, and they have a core narrative as the Bastions of Morality and Fiscal Responsibility and No One Should Ever Have To Pay Taxes Ever Again that they live and die by. (That they don't actually behave this way doesn't matter; the story is everything, because politics is, and always has been, a big dumb show.) And our story is all too often just WE ARE NOT THE REPUBLICANS and no one likes a story about a bunch of whiners.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:55
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Maybe instead of whining about how the Dems are big meanies who should be replaced, you should get involved with your local party and start pushing the Dems leftwards. The whole reason we're in this mess is because local Dems are disorganized and no one seems to give a poo poo. The Dems have massive internal realignments in the past and they will in the future. Also not sure why y'all think Perez is a shoo-in for DNC chair beyond the usual cspam fatalism. Ellison has a lot of major establishment voices behind him too and if this thing turns into a publicized race he'll benefit due to being way more charismatic and media savvy than Perez
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Dec 24, 2016 18:57
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