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Bedshaped posted:It is but I think they might have been slightly out of their depth with a guest like that. Luckily he is just such an interesting person I could listen to him ramble on about growing up jewish in brooklyn endlessly. I think virgil texas is an excellent interviewer though and a big loss to Chapo, I'd love to hear him talk to Finkelstein. also a month or so ago i recall trueanon talking about how they had a guest lined up who ragequit when they didn't get the zoom link because gmail was blocking poo poo and how it was one of those older grouchy types, and had to just come up with some ep on the spot. i wonder if that was Finkelstein lol
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Jan 25, 2021 21:37
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it was grover furr
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Jan 25, 2021 21:55
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Joementum posted:the argument is over whether putting pressure on members of congress three weeks ago will result in a vote on passing medicare for all Isn't it more about forcing democrats to vote yes or no for Medicare, exposing the no votes, and primarying them?
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Jan 25, 2021 22:03
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ATP_Power posted:I haven't listened to it, but frequent RWN guest Carl Zha has a China-centric podcast called Silk and Steel, might be worth checking out. Latest episode and the only one I listened to was dunking on Matt pottinger and the New Yorker puff piece about him. Like, I wouldn’t dismissing it out of hand but at least when it’s about US politics it’s kinda dull. It’s easy enough to to hear about US China watchers being in the US. There are more historically and china focused episodes I wanna get into before I make a final judgement though.
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Jan 25, 2021 22:03
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Pirate Jet posted:i just don’t understand how anybody can get so spittle-spewingly angry at what, at the end of the day, is a strategy argument the frision is ultimately over something they aren't actually talking about : can the current political system be reformed? if you are brie, you're gradually coming to the dawning horror that the answer is no so now you're breaking with the people who used to be your allies when you were stumping for a social democrat
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Jan 25, 2021 22:21
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doesnt the whole force FTV strategy hinge on people voting to primary dems that didnt vote for m4a? because if so, lmao what a profound misunderstanding of american electoral politics
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Jan 25, 2021 22:28
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babypolis posted:doesnt the whole force FTV strategy hinge on people voting to primary dems that didnt vote for m4a? because if so, lmao what a profound misunderstanding of american electoral politics What makes you say that, it's not like Dem primary voters had just picked the most vocally anti-M4A candidate available or anything.
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Jan 25, 2021 22:29
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Gripweed posted:What makes you say that, it's not like Dem primary voters had just picked the most vocally anti-M4A candidate available or anything. Hey lets be fair, a fair chunk were so brainwashed they thought he was in favor
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Jan 25, 2021 22:32
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babypolis posted:doesnt the whole force FTV strategy hinge on people voting to primary dems that didnt vote for m4a? because if so, lmao what a profound misunderstanding of american electoral politics that's also 100% the anti-FTV strategy too.
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Jan 25, 2021 22:32
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babypolis posted:doesnt the whole force FTV strategy hinge on people voting to primary dems that didnt vote for m4a? because if so, lmao what a profound misunderstanding of american electoral politics Yes, 100%. It also hinges on the idea that 70% of voters want M4A, which is an incredibly over-optimistic interpretation of polling data. Its laughable, and why I got this sexy new redtext and avatar of the HILLDAWG!~
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Jan 25, 2021 22:34
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Trabisnikof posted:that's also 100% the anti-FTV strategy too. yeah lol. like what else would even be the strategy? if youre not down for primarying anti m4a reps then you're basically banking on getting a pro M4A president, good luck with that
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Jan 25, 2021 22:35
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a Loving Dog posted:yeah lol. like what else would even be the strategy? if youre not down for primarying anti m4a reps then you're basically banking on getting a pro M4A president, good luck with that id love to primary anti m4a dems, as would everyone else here i assume. i just dont think the regular voting public gives a gently caress the whole FTV debate is just a sympton of a complete rudderless left. no one has absolutely any idea how to move foward, so we tear each other up
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Jan 25, 2021 22:39
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a Loving Dog posted:yeah lol. like what else would even be the strategy? if youre not down for primarying anti m4a reps then you're basically banking on getting a pro M4A president, good luck with that Even people who are literally as we speak primarying reps who are against M4A like the Justice Dems have been attacked by the FTV folks as frauds and sell outs. mcmagic has issued a correction as of 22:41 on Jan 25, 2021 |
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Jan 25, 2021 22:39
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The left doesn't hold any real power so it needs to try every tactic it can think up in the hopes that maybe one will work. FTV didn't work, but it might have so it was worth giving a shot. But that's not really what the whole squabble is about. Sam and Jimmy have hated each other for years. Jimmy is kind of dumb and probably wasn't the best figurehead for this effort, but at least he was trying. Sam refuses to let a grudge go, and so here we are having a meta fight about some YouTube shows.
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Jan 25, 2021 22:46
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mcmagic posted:Even people who are literally as we speak primarying reps who are against M4A like the Justice Dems have been attacked by the FTV folks as frauds and sell outs. okay? who are the ftv folks? where are these accusations? i dont have a twitter so only follow this dumb poo poo through osmosis, and from my view not forcing a m4a vote and instead wasting time on poo poo like impeachment is dumb as hell
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Jan 25, 2021 22:47
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lol at the same libs who got laughed out of the succzone thread for arguing Nancy Pelosi and Blur Cross Blue Shield have the best interests of the left at heart rehashing the argument in the podcasts thread. like, this is a step below acting out an argument in the shower.
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Jan 25, 2021 22:47
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babypolis posted:id love to primary anti m4a dems, as would everyone else here i assume. i just dont think the regular voting public gives a gently caress I thought Joshua4Congress was the canary for what's coming, but this isn't a bad show of the listlessness either
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Jan 25, 2021 22:49
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tfuck is m4a
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Jan 25, 2021 22:51
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lollontee posted:tfuck is m4a men for all, its a craigslist term you wouldn't get it
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Jan 25, 2021 22:52
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lollontee posted:tfuck is m4a something you will never get in this demon haunted nation
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Jan 25, 2021 22:54
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ah, never had the craiglist itch. but i do support gloryholes 4 all
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Jan 25, 2021 22:54
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Yeah this is completely about whether or not the left should rabble rouse and use electoralism to broadcast socialist messages, which is a long standing and historically successful tactic. The people opposed to it refuse to engage with this point and retreat into procedural concern trolling (Seder does this and keeps getting basic facts about the speaker vote wrong), attacks on the personalities involved (Brie got called a white supremacist) or making up some magical alternate goal in their heads to argue why doing nothing is better, actually.
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Jan 25, 2021 22:55
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ohhh!!! healthcare! thats right, americans dont have that. as a resident of the socialist states of finland, i just forgot that you dont have doctors or medicine
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Jan 25, 2021 22:56
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lollontee posted:ohhh!!! healthcare! thats right, americans dont have that. as a resident of the socialist states of finland, i just forgot that you dont have doctors or medicine I know finland isn't real, you're not fooling me
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Jan 25, 2021 22:59
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cenotaph posted:Yeah this is completely about whether or not the left should rabble rouse and use electoralism to broadcast socialist messages, which is a long standing and historically successful tactic. The people opposed to it refuse to engage with this point and retreat into procedural concern trolling (Seder does this and keeps getting basic facts about the speaker vote wrong), attacks on the personalities involved (Brie got called a white supremacist) or making up some magical alternate goal in their heads to argue why doing nothing is better, actually. don't let ferrinus find this thread or you're in for 10,000 words about why actually doing nothing is good for m4a
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Jan 25, 2021 23:00
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jimmy nomore
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Jan 25, 2021 23:03
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i guess i shouldnt begrudge anyone for trying something, even if it seems like the equivalent of your plan to paying your rent being buying a bunch of scratch lotto tickers. just man, it all feels so hopeless, specially when the only end result if a bunch of infighting that makes me feel even more hopeless
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Jan 25, 2021 23:03
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what are the better strategies for getting m4a, because the most often suggested alternative seems to be gradually primarying dems until we have a majority socialist party, assuming the dems don’t catch on and pull an Alex Morse on them all and also our glaciers don’t melt and flood the farmlands by thenbabypolis posted:i guess i shouldnt begrudge anyone for trying something, even if it seems like the equivalent of your plan to paying your rent being buying a bunch of scratch lotto tickers. just man, it all feels so hopeless, specially when the only end result if a bunch of infighting that makes me feel even more hopeless I get it. it sucks. but as I said earlier, the infighting is only happening because people seem to insist there must be infighting. if you disagree with ftv that’s fine but what I don’t get is the people who find it so offensive that they insist BJG is a nazi or something this is a strategy argument. in an ideal democracy strategy arguments would be pretty common. if anything seeing this kind of debate happen suggests to me that maybe the left is ready to move on from pinning our hopes on x person getting into office and starting to do things with the power we have while we have it Pirate Jet has issued a correction as of 23:07 on Jan 25, 2021 |
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Jan 25, 2021 23:04
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a Loving Dog posted:don't let ferrinus find this thread or you're in for 10,000 words about why actually doing nothing is good for m4a I was floored to see that he's doing that in the dsa thread considering his posts in the communism thread.
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Jan 25, 2021 23:05
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like if the intended conclusion from all this is that the squad are all traitors, where do you even go from there?
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Jan 25, 2021 23:06
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Pirate Jet posted:what are the better strategies for getting m4a, because the most often suggested alternative seems to be gradually primarying dems until we have a majority socialist party, assuming the dems don’t catch on and pull an Alex Morse on them all and also our glaciers don’t melt and flood the farmlands by then The other one I've heard is that Gavin Newsom will give us m4a as president
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Jan 25, 2021 23:06
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StashAugustine posted:Hey lets be fair, a fair chunk were so brainwashed they thought he was in favor I'm starting to think the FTV scheme is flawed in multiple ways
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Jan 25, 2021 23:06
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Pirate Jet posted:what are the better strategies for getting m4a, because the most often suggested alternative seems to be gradually primarying dems until we have a majority socialist party, assuming the dems don’t catch on and pull an Alex Morse on them all and also our glaciers don’t melt and flood the farmlands by then That dsa guy on bad faith wants Gavin Newsom to ride it to the presidency lmao
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Jan 25, 2021 23:07
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complaining about the "leftist infighting" that happened over FTV seems a bit much. no organizations were dissolved or real ground lost. for a lot of people, it seemed like they were upset that their podcast friends were fighting.
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Jan 25, 2021 23:07
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Atrocious Joe posted:complaining about the "leftist infighting" that happened over FTV seems a bit much. no organizations were dissolved or real ground lost. I would bitch about most people's political practice just being listening to podcasts but that's also true of me because I am incredibly lazy
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Jan 25, 2021 23:09
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Pirate Jet posted:what are the better strategies for getting m4a, because the most often suggested alternative seems to be gradually primarying dems until we have a majority socialist party, assuming the dems don’t catch on and pull an Alex Morse on them all and also our glaciers don’t melt and flood the farmlands by then I kinda feel like this whole FTV discourse is just trying to avoid accepting the fact that the Democrat party is not a viable vessel to get us to the significant socialist change we need. The party apparatus is willing to burn itself down rather than accept significant leftward movement, as shown by their willingness to destroy one of their beloved institutions, the Iowa Caucus. And in general Democratic primary voters don't see the bulk of the party as the bad guy, and generally believe that most Democrat politicians want the same thing they do, even when they say to their face that they don't. As shown by the 2020 primary. So what the gently caress are you supposed to do with that?
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Jan 25, 2021 23:12
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babypolis posted:i guess i shouldnt begrudge anyone for trying something, even if it seems like the equivalent of your plan to paying your rent being buying a bunch of scratch lotto tickers. just man, it all feels so hopeless, specially when the only end result if a bunch of infighting that makes me feel even more hopeless that infighting is what ought to make you feel hope, the conflict being what tears apart those who thought themselves part of the same commune. drawing the borders between those who oppress and those who are exploited, is what allows for new identities and communes opposed to your rulers to be conceived. those lines that you draw between yourself and the enemy are what the definitions of your existance
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Jan 25, 2021 23:12
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again, from someone watching basically just on these forums and whatever tweets are linked here, it seemed like the entire fight was one side wanting to do anything at all on m4a and the other side screaming about how Jimmy Dore is bad
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Jan 25, 2021 23:13
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lollontee posted:ohhh!!! healthcare! thats right, americans dont have that. as a resident of the socialist states of finland, i just forgot that you dont have doctors or medicine Gwyneth Paltrow's made a fortune in health woo, wouldn't see surprised if homeopathy is next on the list of things to sell the desperate
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Jan 25, 2021 23:16
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babypolis posted:like if the intended conclusion from all this is that the squad are all traitors, where do you even go from there? "the squad" has been around two years. the fight against capitalism for a fairer system went on before them, and it'll go on after. and it shouldn't be shocking if they do betray working people. they work in the literal heart of the empire and don't have a mass movement to hold them accountable. put most people in that position and they'll start shilling for Goldman Sachs in a week.
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Jan 25, 2021 23:16
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