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Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
that was true when he started making the game but ten years later never patches and early access darlings is steam lore

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Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Gamerofthegame posted:

that was true when he started making the game but ten years later never patches and early access darlings is steam lore

I am reminded of people saying Valheim was a scam because it has only received twelve* patches and two* new zones in the past three years.

I know Valheim has a very small team, but Alex I think is like 1.5 people (probably with day jobs), so he would have a real hard time keeping pace with expectations.

* (I made up these numbers, I don't care they're wrong)

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Teledahn posted:

I am reminded of people saying Valheim was a scam because it has only received twelve* patches and two* new zones in the past three years.

I know Valheim has a very small team, but Alex I think is like 1.5 people (probably with day jobs), so he would have a real hard time keeping pace with expectations.

* (I made up these numbers, I don't care they're wrong)

There's straight up a goon in that game's thread who's all huffing and puffing about how bad the Valheim team are at dev because updates don't come faster and they can tell because they're a professional developer and :jerkbag:

toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Apr 13, 2024

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Hell, sometimes even complete, finished, fully released games get ragged on because they don't get more than some basic patches to fix bugs and problems.

Look at the reaction to Banished from years back. A fully realized game day 1 of release and people were soon calling it "Abandoned" because it was of fixed and intentional scope and not promising more more more.

Althalin
Nov 19, 2019

Putting the ham in Chamon
Pork Pro

toasterwarrior posted:

There's straight up a goon in that game's thread who's all huffing and puffing about how bad the Valheim team are at dev because updates don't come faster and they can tell because they're a professional developer and :jerkbag:

Honestly I have to give kudos to the Valheim team for actually sticking with the game and not just taking the money and running. They probably have contractual obligations to Coffee Stain, but 2 million copies in 13 days with a 5-person (at the time) dev team is a lotta dosh per person if they'd been so inclined.

Sandweed
Sep 7, 2006

All your friends are me.

toasterwarrior posted:

There's straight up a goon in that game's thread who's all huffing and puffing about how bad the Valheim team are at dev because updates don't come faster and they can tell because they're a professional developer and :jerkbag:

Fortnite with their infinite money have broken people brains. Nobody else is able to keep that up for long.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

Gamerofthegame posted:

that was true when he started making the game but ten years later never patches and early access darlings is steam lore

It's steam lore because the userbase gets incredibly unpleasant about it

It's absolutely way harder to sell a game on your own site and sustainably putter along issuing releases when they're ready to the people who will tend to go there because they have a level of trust and enthusiasm for what you're doing. if you've already accomplished that, though, from every account I've ever heard the main thing steam has to offer is a vast supply of racists who think you're Ubisoft trying to scam them out of their $15.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 14, 2024

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

It's steam lore because the userbase gets incredibly unpleasant about it

It's absolutely way harder to sell a game on your own site and sustainably putter along issuing releases when they're ready to the people who will tend to go there because they have a level of trust and enthusiasm for what you're doing. if you've already accomplished that, though, from every account I've ever heard the main thing steam has to offer is a vast supply of racists who think you're Ubisoft trying to scam them out of their $15.

Did you just step out of a time machine from 2004 or something? I have bad news for you about Half Life 2.

alex314
Nov 22, 2007

Insurrectionist posted:

Huh, didn't know that about temp CC numbers. Unfortunately I'm an unpatriotic EU resident and have never owned a credit card in my life so sadly that doesn't work for me. My usual experience when purchasing even from smaller businesses like indie games is I just have to provide my card# and I get automatically rerouted to my bank's own 2FA processor system. But I presume that's because they all tend to use vendors like itch.io or whatever that are able to involve larger payment processors.

Revolut is super easy to get. Also as a fellow EU enjoyer every bank I have account offers virtual debit cards you can unfreeze just for that one transaction.

Rhymenoserous
May 23, 2008

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

doesn't steam take like 30%, i wouldn't sell though em either if literally anyone would buy my poo poo off my personal webpage

Economies of scale are a thing. Would you rather sell 30,000 copies at full price or two million at 70%?

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

A new dev blog has come out.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
I like it a lot.

Dr. Carwash
Sep 16, 2006

Senpai...

toasterwarrior posted:

There's straight up a goon in that game's thread who's all huffing and puffing about how bad the Valheim team are at dev because updates don't come faster and they can tell because they're a professional developer and :jerkbag:

Valheim devs probably shouldn't have released a 1 year roadmap that had more content the last 3ish years combined. And up until recently, they haven't had a single real update since December 2022. I honestly thought they just abandoned the game tbh.

GloomMouse
Mar 6, 2007

Working on UI stuff seems like the most tedious thing but as a player I'm really glad when a dev cares enough to do it properly

OGS-Remix
Sep 4, 2007

Totally surviving on my own. On LAND!
So I'm starting up another Starsector playthrough and I understand the default Java version has been upgraded. I don't need to do anything now to get the benefits of a more updated Java right?

Llamadeus
Dec 20, 2005

OGS-Remix posted:

So I'm starting up another Starsector playthrough and I understand the default Java version has been upgraded. I don't need to do anything now to get the benefits of a more updated Java right?
I think that's only planned for the next patch, not the current version.

Nalesh
Jun 9, 2010

What did the grandma say to the frog?

Something racist, probably.
There's also an even more updated java version than the one alex is working on using in the mod subforum, java 23.

Nalesh fucked around with this message at 23:51 on May 12, 2024

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Dr. Carwash posted:

Valheim devs probably shouldn't have released a 1 year roadmap that had more content the last 3ish years combined. And up until recently, they haven't had a single real update since December 2022. I honestly thought they just abandoned the game tbh.

yeah weird how you might've been totally completely wrong with your pessimistic rear end assumptions

OGS-Remix
Sep 4, 2007

Totally surviving on my own. On LAND!
Thanks for the info; I guess I'll keep an eye out for that in the future. I'm eager to see the next release so there's enough memory to cram all the mods in lol.

Complications
Jun 19, 2014

OGS-Remix posted:

Thanks for the info; I guess I'll keep an eye out for that in the future. I'm eager to see the next release so there's enough memory to cram all the mods in lol.

Changing the amount of memory to allocate means changing vmparams, not updating your Java. Even after the update you'll probably have to change vmparams yourself. Heck, there's a Java 8 update guide on the forums that's still current and will ensure FPS doesn't degrade after battles. Regardless, you can have as much memory as you want allocated, though I don't think there's any reason to go above 8GB there's nothing stopping you from going to something loony like 64GB literally right now via Notepad.

Sandweed
Sep 7, 2006

All your friends are me.

OGS-Remix posted:

Thanks for the info; I guess I'll keep an eye out for that in the future. I'm eager to see the next release so there's enough memory to cram all the mods in lol.

Just use the Java 23 mod it's amazing.

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

I can't avoid filling a game with awful memes, even if I want to. It's in my bones...!
It really is everything it's cracked up to be. Things run so much better, especially if you mod heavily. And the memory cleanup in particular is leagues and leagues better.

But yes, Starsector .98 will use Java 17. The end user won't need to change anything to make use of the upgrade, it'll run seamlessly right out of the box.

Complications posted:

Changing the amount of memory to allocate means changing vmparams, not updating your Java. Even after the update you'll probably have to change vmparams yourself. Heck, there's a Java 8 update guide on the forums that's still current and will ensure FPS doesn't degrade after battles. Regardless, you can have as much memory as you want allocated, though I don't think there's any reason to go above 8GB there's nothing stopping you from going to something loony like 64GB literally right now via Notepad.

So actually, this isn't true; above 8GB of system RAM allocated, Java 8 starts getting rather confused, and it's usually recommended you don't even go that high, with 6GB being the usual sweet spot. (VRAM is handled differently, and the game will use as much VRAM as you can give it.)

That said, you have to go truly out of your mind with mods and increasing sector size to run into trouble even at 6GB, never mind 8 or higher, so it's not really that much of a concern.

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
https://packaged-media.redd.it/e5o6...0181648fc36#t=0

armaa remains the hypest poo poo

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

I can't avoid filling a game with awful memes, even if I want to. It's in my bones...!
This is apparently going to be a lot more than just "a battle map with a different background". I cannot wait to see what Shoi is cooking.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Complications posted:

Changing the amount of memory to allocate means changing vmparams, not updating your Java. Even after the update you'll probably have to change vmparams yourself. Heck, there's a Java 8 update guide on the forums that's still current and will ensure FPS doesn't degrade after battles. Regardless, you can have as much memory as you want allocated, though I don't think there's any reason to go above 8GB there's nothing stopping you from going to something loony like 64GB literally right now via Notepad.

Regardless of the Java version you typically do not want to allocate more than ~28 GB* of ram to a JVM because of two reasons:
- infrequent long latency spikes from full-heap garbage collections
- you no longer benefit from compressed ordinary object pointers

Even if you’ve the memory to spare going over 32 gigs of heap wastes memory, reduces CPU performance, and makes the GC struggle with large heaps.

Also it doesn’t matter for starsector because lmao you do not need remotely that much memory allocated to the JVM.

* depends on the underlying OS, it’s between 28 and 30 on most OSes

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 07:13 on May 13, 2024

SugarAddict
Oct 11, 2012

Are those enemy reinforcements coming from the enemy planet? That's some arcade shooter style right there. I remember someone on the discord showing their work on making more arcade shoot-em-up style fights with restricting the map size and battlesize and ship size to basically knife fight, but also having multiple battles in the same battle, and multiple battles in a row.

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?

SugarAddict posted:

Are those enemy reinforcements coming from the enemy planet? That's some arcade shooter style right there. I remember someone on the discord showing their work on making more arcade shoot-em-up style fights with restricting the map size and battlesize and ship size to basically knife fight, but also having multiple battles in the same battle, and multiple battles in a row.

the dev was coy about stuff in the reddit post but it certainly LOOKS like reinforcements arriving from the planet which owns. fold it into nex's planetary invasion poo poo to give me a thing like ecm where i push a button and get to play a striker 1945 level or some poo poo in my atmospheric capable uaf cruiser :getin:

Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


Holy poo poo that looks dope :catdrugs:

Corsec
Apr 17, 2007
I'm returning to this game after a few years. There's a mod I used that I can't remember anymore, maybe someone else does? It gave the player pre-designed optimised autofit variants for your ships and also allowed non-player ships to also use them. I thought it might be Better Variants but it doesn't seem to have that feature. I liked the feature because I was terrible at designing my own ships, so I'd really like to have it again.

EDIT: Nevermind, found it was Better Ships for 0.95a and hasn't been updated for the latest version.

Has anyone tried the combo of Ruthless Sector and Perilous Expanse?

Corsec fucked around with this message at 09:10 on May 17, 2024

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week
Well thread, it's been a long ten years since I last posted here... about not enjoying the initial campaign prototype.

One of my friends was like "you should check out this game" and I was like "I already own that game" and then they told me about all the poo poo they were doing including what happened when they put an AI in charge of a colony and I was like "ok I should check out this game".

Uh, I like the campaign now. A lot. Large blocks of time have just vanished from my last week.


Three questions:

1) For an initial colony, it it better to take a super-habitable world with a few minerals, or a medium-hazard world with both ore & rare ore? I'm assuming that starting on a 250% hell-world is a bad idea no matter how rich the resources are.

2) Are there some general principles for fitting out ships for the AI to use? A whole lot of fitting discussion I see revolves around "this build solos the endgame fleet" type stuff. I can't fly those and am not gonna practice control enough to do that, the fleet combat is what interests me.

3) Semi-related, I've gotten to the point where I'm seeing opponents with multiple cruisers, and my fleet has taken a big dive in effectiveness. Against 3-star destroyer-heavy fleets I was owning without much sweat. But 3-star fleets with cruisers and garbage frigates were much much harder. So I've made builds that I guess are tuned towards sub-cruisers, without really knowing what I'm doing.

My ships: Apogee, Falcon XIV, Mora, Enforcer XIV, Hammerhead, Scarab, Centurion, 2x Wolf
(I found the scarab as a derelict and paid 75k to remove all the d-mods. So worth. Thing is an absolute assassin.)

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

The colony balance has changed a lot in the last couple updates, they're a fair bit of work to maintain now, and if you're still having trouble with cruisers you should take a while trawling the far reaches building up your fleet and looking for the Best Planet. Parking on an ultrarich mining planet with the shiny new mantle bore you found seems like a great way to make some passive income until Tri-Tachyon throws a raiding party of a couple hundred ships at it and permanently knocks your stability into the red; ideally you want either a gas station that's just barely self-sustaining and of no interest to anybody or an industrialized world fully capable of defending itself from anything short of the crisis gigafleets

The AI is pretty flexible but it defaults to hanging out at the edge of weapons range plinking away with a half-dozen of its buddies, works best if you keep most of the weapons in the same range ballpark and aim for ability to stay in combat without overfluxing, vs. the usual player-ideal build of something that will overload in three seconds but can kill a station in two

Those ships are all fairly suited for taking on larger enemies, you probably just need practice and maybe to throw in a handful of extra crap frigates and destroyers to act as chaff. Ideally you want to isolate and swarm whatever cruiser wanders to the edges of the formation while the crap ships keep their escorts too distracted to help them. Paying for a completely pristine ship early on in the game where you don't have basically infinite money is a sucker's game, it'll get D-mods again the first time it pops and you could have fixed up like 5+ junkers you found or killed for that money. Very few things in Starsector will win a one-on-five fight against anything much nastier than Hounds, and when you're fighting them you'll know it.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 18:08 on May 26, 2024

FooF
Mar 26, 2010
1) Hazard rating is going to determine colony growth more than anything early on so yes, a 100-125% world that you can farm initially is a good starter. Note that rare ore (transplutonics) prohibits the use of the farming colony item. That said, a nice 150% No Atmosphere barren world with a little of both ores on it can be very lucrative with the Mantle Bore item and then you can put Heavy Industry and Fuel Production on there later with no negative consequences (Nanoforge doesn't pollute anything and Synchrotron Core needs No Atmosphere).

2) In general, the AI really really hates being at high flux so any build that is roughly flux neutral with decent shield efficiency will make the AI handle ships better. In fact, the AI is far more aggressive when its flux levels are low (which is a good thing) and can be pants-on-head idiotic at high flux levels. Also, pay attention to range bands. If you do something like a Heavy Mauler (1000 range) paired with an Heavy Machine Gun (450 range), your Aggressive and Reckless officers go to 450 range. The whole point of Maulers and Hypervelocity Drivers is to snipe but the AI will want to use all the weapons it can at higher aggression settings. Also, you can modify the overall aggression of your non-officered fleet under the Doctrine tab.

3) The durability of certain Cruisers (namely Eradicators and Ventures) are considerably higher than every Destroyer not named the Enforcer. Cracking armor is is where you want high, single-hit damage. A three-round burst of100-damage shots are drastically worse than a single 300-damage hit against armor. The 100-damage shots will each individually get reduced by 60-70% while the single 300-damage hit might only get reduced by 30%, depending on armor level. HE damage does double against armor so its always good but missiles and torpedoes can take big chunks off.

With fleet you mentioned, the Apogee has the potential to hit really hard with a Plasma Cannon (but good luck finding one). The Falcon XIV is a Light Cruiser and really doesn't punch up well. The Mora is probably the strongest ship right now, depending on how you fit it and what Fighters you use. The Hammerhead is great early but gets outgunned pretty quickly and the Wolves have a hard time punching up, too. To me, that's a mid-game fleet but if you're having a hard time against other Cruisers with that line-up, you might have some bad builds. The other piece of it is that you might be getting outnumbered, and like the AI being at high flux, it really doesn't like getting surrounded. You might want to add more quantity to your fleet to spread out the enemy more and get more surrounds yourself.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

FooF posted:

3) The durability of certain Cruisers (namely Eradicators and Ventures) are considerably higher than every Destroyer not named the Enforcer. Cracking armor is is where you want high, single-hit damage. A three-round burst of100-damage shots are drastically worse than a single 300-damage hit against armor. The 100-damage shots will each individually get reduced by 60-70% while the single 300-damage hit might only get reduced by 30%, depending on armor level. HE damage does double against armor so its always good but missiles and torpedoes can take big chunks off.

Yeah it was Eradicators that were the problem. So, here's what happened: I had a pirate bounty followed by a planet scan. The pirate fleet is 2 eradicators, 2 combat destroyers, misc frigates. Fight that and win clean, no losses.

Head over to the planet scan. Bumble directly into the Luddic Path fleet that's waiting. It has 2 eradicators, 2 colossus mk 2, lot of junk frigates. Having beaten the pirates, I think I can take these guys on. This turns out to be overconfidence, and I get absolutely demolished. So I reload, and of course I didn't save so I have to re-fight the pirates again. But that's not too bad, right? And I'll just avoid the LP fleet next time.

Round 2 against the pirate fleet goes badly. Reload the fight a couple more times before getting an acceptable win. Seems I got lucky the first time.

Go to do the planet scan again. Now that I know the LP fleet is there, I play footsie with my superior speed to try to nab the planet scan out from under them. It almost works. I try a regular disengage -- I've got a save now, so I can always reload and use a story point disengage if that doesn't work.

This time I win the fight. Having all my ships on the field makes their frigates very distracted. A Wolf and a Shepard get blown up, that's it. Everything else has a lot of hull damage. But no major losses.



So, I dunno, very 50/50 results. It's mostly the extreme swings between clean wins and nasty loss that made me bring it up. The Eradicators take so long to kill I figured I must be doing something bad. I think I have too many rapid-fire small-damage guns. The wins came when they split up -- any of the fights where they stuck together was a bad time.


FooF posted:

With fleet you mentioned, the Apogee has the potential to hit really hard with a Plasma Cannon (but good luck finding one). The Falcon XIV is a Light Cruiser and really doesn't punch up well. The Mora is probably the strongest ship right now, depending on how you fit it and what Fighters you use. The Hammerhead is great early but gets outgunned pretty quickly and the Wolves have a hard time punching up, too. To me, that's a mid-game fleet but if you're having a hard time against other Cruisers with that line-up, you might have some bad builds. The other piece of it is that you might be getting outnumbered, and like the AI being at high flux, it really doesn't like getting surrounded. You might want to add more quantity to your fleet to spread out the enemy more and get more surrounds yourself.

I definitely have some non-optimal builds, in that I'm still trying to do exploration and mission-running more than pure fighting. A number of ships are wasting points on efficiency or drive upgrades to keep the fleet at max speed. My strat has been to line up a bunch of missions in a general area or path, and then race to do them all in a row. Kinda relies on high speed low drag, so I've been reluctant to add heavier ships. I'm actually sitting on a ton of money now because this is very lucrative. So buying more small stuff is no problem.

My apogee is fit with beams, high scatter, and shield tank mods. HI-Laser, Graviton beam, IR lance, Locust SRMs are the big guns. I have a tachyon lance at home if that would be an upgrade?

I guess one problem is the Mora is being flown by a cautious officer. That was good for a Condor to stay out of trouble. I should swap her out. What's a good Mora fit?

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
A few more notes on AI fits:

You want your main guns to have similar range, include PD or it'll be very shy, include missiles because the AI can use them well, max out flux stuff or it'll be very shy.

AI ships work very well in small groups, manouevring to relieve each other, so including a few ships that can do that is a good idea.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


Falcons are basically indestructable super destroyers. you can fit them well so that the AI can play extremely tediously with them BUT can mop up everything smaller than itself given time. Something like 1 x ion beam, 1 x graviton beam, 1 x hypervelocity driver, 1 x heavy mauler and then tac lasers in the smallers. with ITU it can hold range extremely well so it can't really get pushed by anything and with that setup it'll force things to tank hypervelocity shots till they overload, or to armour tank an ion beam while getting hit with lasers and maulers. It also pairs will with hardened shields so it can hold gaps in lines but against anything bigger it suffers because it doesn't have a lot of tankiness or dps and relies entirely on mobility and range to punch down.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Eradicators are strong cruisers.

Apogee, Falcon XIV, Mora, Enforcer isn’t a great overmatch versus a pair them and some frigates, except that pirate Eradicators have trash builds. IIRC the LP uses the normal Eradicator with the accelerated ammo feeder, but it’s been a long time since I fought the Path.

You can take these fights with good builds and good piloting, but enemy fleets like that also justify bringing an additional cruiser.

FooF
Mar 26, 2010

Klyith posted:

Yeah it was Eradicators that were the problem. So, here's what happened: I had a pirate bounty followed by a planet scan. The pirate fleet is 2 eradicators, 2 combat destroyers, misc frigates. Fight that and win clean, no losses.

Head over to the planet scan. Bumble directly into the Luddic Path fleet that's waiting. It has 2 eradicators, 2 colossus mk 2, lot of junk frigates. Having beaten the pirates, I think I can take these guys on. This turns out to be overconfidence, and I get absolutely demolished. So I reload, and of course I didn't save so I have to re-fight the pirates again. But that's not too bad, right? And I'll just avoid the LP fleet next time.

Round 2 against the pirate fleet goes badly. Reload the fight a couple more times before getting an acceptable win. Seems I got lucky the first time.

Go to do the planet scan again. Now that I know the LP fleet is there, I play footsie with my superior speed to try to nab the planet scan out from under them. It almost works. I try a regular disengage -- I've got a save now, so I can always reload and use a story point disengage if that doesn't work.

This time I win the fight. Having all my ships on the field makes their frigates very distracted. A Wolf and a Shepard get blown up, that's it. Everything else has a lot of hull damage. But no major losses.

So, I dunno, very 50/50 results. It's mostly the extreme swings between clean wins and nasty loss that made me bring it up. The Eradicators take so long to kill I figured I must be doing something bad. I think I have too many rapid-fire small-damage guns. The wins came when they split up -- any of the fights where they stuck together was a bad time.

There's a semi-frequent complaint that everything feels pretty good until Eradicators start showing up and then there's a spike in difficulty, so don't feel too bad. Eradicators are the perfect combination of strong armor and decent guns paired with above average speed. The Pirate versions with Burn Drive are actually considerably less dangerous than the Pather versions that have Accelerated Ammo Feeder since AAF with all its guns can just delete Destroyers. I wouldn't call them a "gear check" in the game but they're close. You need to have the right combination of anti-armor, anti-shields and maneuverability to burst them down. Against a Venture, yeah, it's a brick but it can't go anywhere fast and it doesn't hit that hard. Eradicators are just very good ships.

Klyith posted:

I definitely have some non-optimal builds, in that I'm still trying to do exploration and mission-running more than pure fighting. A number of ships are wasting points on efficiency or drive upgrades to keep the fleet at max speed. My strat has been to line up a bunch of missions in a general area or path, and then race to do them all in a row. Kinda relies on high speed low drag, so I've been reluctant to add heavier ships. I'm actually sitting on a ton of money now because this is very lucrative. So buying more small stuff is no problem.

My apogee is fit with beams, high scatter, and shield tank mods. HI-Laser, Graviton beam, IR lance, Locust SRMs are the big guns. I have a tachyon lance at home if that would be an upgrade?

I guess one problem is the Mora is being flown by a cautious officer. That was good for a Condor to stay out of trouble. I should swap her out. What's a good Mora fit?

Nothing wrong with exploration builds packing on the logistical and campaign-layer hullmods but they do hurt your in-battle performance. If you're flush with cash, absolutely buy some more Destroyers and Frigates. Also, the Mora is a battle carrier: it needs a Steady to Aggressive officer. Moras can go toe-to-toe with other Cruisers because it's tanky as hell and can let its fighters do the damage while its soaking damage via Damper Field. Putting High Scatter Amplifier (thereby cutting your beam range) on the slow as molasses Apogee is not great. The Apogee can absolutely mix it up in combat (it has one of the best shields in the game) but it needs range to make up for its poor speed. Tachyon Lance would be far superior to HIL in most scenarios. It can sit back and snipe. Locusts aren't great either. They're again, not bad, but if you're struggling with Cruisers, you'd be better served with a Hurricane or Squall. I agree with Drone_Fragger than Falcons are excellent harassers. They won't score kills themselves a lot but as support fire platforms, they're excellent. They can run from anything bigger and outrange/hunt anything smaller. Just don't expect them to take on heavy Cruisers.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

FooF posted:

Also, the Mora is a battle carrier: it needs a Steady to Aggressive officer. Moras can go toe-to-toe with other Cruisers because it's tanky as hell and can let its fighters do the damage while its soaking damage via Damper Field.

Gotcha. Is a cautious officer basically "spend a story point on personality or fire" material? She's still only halfway to level 2 so not a big loss to get rid of.

FooF posted:

Putting High Scatter Amplifier (thereby cutting your beam range) on the slow as molasses Apogee is not great. The Apogee can absolutely mix it up in combat (it has one of the best shields in the game) but it needs range to make up for its poor speed. Tachyon Lance would be far superior to HIL in most scenarios. It can sit back and snipe. Locusts aren't great either. They're again, not bad, but if you're struggling with Cruisers, you'd be better served with a Hurricane or Squall.

Gotcha. I put the High Scatter on fairly recently as an experiment because I was often trying to be the main tank, and it seemed like if I was in the frontline I might as cut range for hard flux. But I've noticed the AI reacts intelligently and tries to kite me now. (It did work real good for my phase-lance Wolves.)

How about the missiles that shoot beams, are they worth using?


Platystemon posted:

IIRC the LP uses the normal Eradicator with the accelerated ammo feeder, but it’s been a long time since I fought the Path.

Yeah, and both LP and Pirates have shield shunts, so they're just pure armor bricks. I'm pretty sure I just had bad setups for anti-armor, until now most things have been shields > armor.


Atopian posted:

You want your main guns to have similar range, include PD or it'll be very shy

As in the PD should have similar range to main guns, or a ship with no PD will be cowardly?

OGS-Remix
Sep 4, 2007

Totally surviving on my own. On LAND!

Klyith posted:

Gotcha. Is a cautious officer basically "spend a story point on personality or fire" material? She's still only halfway to level 2 so not a big loss to get rid of.

How about the missiles that shoot beams, are they worth using?

There are certain uses for Cautious Officers, mostly for pure carrier builds. Otherwise just use an officers academy to fix them from Nexerelin.

The missiles that shoot beams are very strong, especially en masse. The raw damage energy ones work like normal missiles except they're not stopped by PD. The kinetic pressure ones need some sort of follow up or overwhelming numbers to be really effective. They are worth using although I strongly suggest having both the officer Missile Spec and Expanded Mags so you don't run out during longer engagements.

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FooF
Mar 26, 2010

Klyith posted:

As in the PD should have similar range to main guns, or a ship with no PD will be cowardly?

I believe they were saying "don't skip PD", which is 100% accurate. Ships will turn at the most inopportune times if they don't have PD to shoot down a stupid Salamander aiming for your engines. PD will never have a lot of range but some people skip PD in order to fit more guns, vents, hullmods, etc. which causes...unintended consequences...with the AI.

DEM missiles (the beam ones) have the advantage of rarely getting shot down because they outrange PD. However, on a per missile basis, they're typically weaker than their direct fire counterparts. Take a Sabot vs. Gazer DEM: both do about 1000 Kinetic damage but the Gazer only inflicts soft flux, though it doesn't get shot down nearly as often. Meanwhile, the Sabot delivers all its damage at once and does so with hard flux, along with EMP if they try to armor tank it. The Dragonfires are the ones I have the hardest time justifying. They do 4000 Energy damage but have a huge wind-up and extremely low ammo count.

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