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It's because everyone that bought the lovely first printing had to buy two PHBs.
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Aug 14, 2016 03:44
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well, that and 3.5 might have cannibalized 3.0 sales
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Aug 14, 2016 03:55
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mastershakeman posted:well, that and 3.5 might have cannibalized 3.0 sales This is a good point actually. And counting only the first 4e PHB when it had 5 total plus Insider.
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Aug 14, 2016 04:05
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gradenko_2000 posted:I don't think Mearls is lying. It's entirely possible that 5th Edition has sold more copies than 4th, 3.5e or 3.0e individually.
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Aug 14, 2016 04:34
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cheetah7071 posted:Maybe previous editions showed only the core books sold enough to really justify making them? It seems weird but it's a possible explanation It's been confirmed by most every long-time veteran of RPG publishing who's worked on game lines with extensive supplement tails that the core book(s) are always your best seller and every supplement afterwards sells progressively fewer and fewer copies until you hit a point of diminishing returns where the returns aren't worth continuing to publish further supplements for, which is a good breakpoint for a new edition of some sort. Nonetheless, there's a difference between "after your corebooks it's a steady slide downward" and "only the corebooks sold well enough to justify making them." I'm not convinced that WotC was somehow taking a loss on every 3.X and 4E supplement considering the sheer scope of both editions' catalogs. Ryuujin posted:Sounds like outright lies to me. There is no way that is true, or they wouldn't basically be mothballing 5e already. But hey maybe they are actually doing well and have some other reason why they have so few people working and basically not putting products out at all. The reason quite simply could be that even if 5E is doing well, it's doing well by elfgame standards which are being compared to Magic: the Gathering's standards of well. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever actually factually confirmed that Hasbro sends soulless corporate suits around to tell WotC that they have to operate on a strict profit-centric basis but WotC is a business and if a product line isn't pulling its weight then it gets cut back. The D&D department has been the subject of frequent and regular cutbacks going on for years. At a certain point, like when projects have to be put on indefinite hold because a guy got jury duty, being critically understaffed starts to resemble being mothballed even if that's not actually the intent. So even if 5E is somehow doing better than any other WotC edition prior to it, someone may simply have decided that's still not good enough to merit expanding the D&D department again.
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Aug 14, 2016 05:31
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Anecdotal but the whole reason that I am DMing a game is because people saw Stranger Things, Harmonquest, Critical Roll, etc. and wanted to play a tabletop rpg for the first time.
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Aug 14, 2016 05:34
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I feel like if it was doing better than any WotC edition before it that they would have more people on staff and be able to put out at least a few books a year so as to actually you know make money. Even if it doesn't do as well as Magic well it never did.
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Aug 14, 2016 05:34
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Ryuujin posted:I feel like if it was doing better than any WotC edition before it that they would have more people on staff and be able to put out at least a few books a year so as to actually you know make money. Even if it doesn't do as well as Magic well it never did. If 3.X made, for the sake of argument, $25 million off corebook sales and 5E has made $26 million then Mearls' statement remains factually accurate but why would WotC start hiring more people and spending more money making books they know aren't going to sell as much when they can keep a skeleton crew going and not have to pay out any more than they already have based on that? Of course D&D has never really done as well as Magic, but remember that Magic didn't always used to do as well as Magic either. One of WotC's properties has grown into a nine-figure enterprise, the other has not. The impetus to try and build up a robust D&D design team likely doesn't exist, even within the D&D department itself because why would it?
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Aug 14, 2016 05:38
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Kestral posted:D&D 5e goons, how does one make character creation for a whole group of inexperienced players go as quickly as possible, while minimizing downtime for each individual player? Hero Lab. I hadn't played since 2e. The night before Gencon my buddy pulled it up on his ipad, asked me all the questions and I had my dorf fighter done in about 10 minutes. He copied it all down to a printed out character sheet. It can be as interactive as you want it to be. He never showed me the ipad the entire time, he read everything to me, and I chose. Later the next night I looked at it, and it's quite extensive, and lists all the text you need, so you could have them sit alongside you. We ended up playing all five preview intro adventures for Storm Kings Thunder over next three days at GenCon. So cool. There were lines about 50 people deep at times of people trying to get into games they didn't preregister for. Most people at the table were like us. One person who is into D&D who brought a newbie friend. It was a hell of a lot of fun and told my friend sign me up for any and all Adventure League he wants to play because they got this poo poo figured out. Got all my books ordered, got my mini from Scibor ordered, got a pile of paints. I'm knee deep in this. Philthy fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 05:40
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gradenko_2000 posted:I don't think Mearls is lying. It's entirely possible that 5th Edition has sold more copies than 4th, 3.5e or 3.0e individually. There are a lot more people, period, today (about 1.3 billion) than there were when 3e released in 2000. The US population alone (which I assume is the primary market for D&D) has risen by about 36 million since 2000 and about 15 million since 4e released in 2008. Those demographics skew young. Both of those releases were either during or immediately before major recessions in the American economy, as well—the 2008 Great Recession being the worst since the Great Depression, recall—and RPG sourcebooks are way the gently caress over on the "luxury goods" side of things, which may have served to depress sales relative to 5e. And, for the people talking profit, don't forget to factor in the effects of inflation, which Mearls may well not have done.
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Aug 14, 2016 09:06
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:There are a lot more people, period, today (about 1.3 billion) than there were when 3e released in 2000. The US population alone (which I assume is the primary market for D&D) has risen by about 36 million since 2000 and about 15 million since 4e released in 2008. Those demographics skew young. Both of those releases were either during or immediately before major recessions in the American economy, as well—the 2008 Great Recession being the worst since the Great Depression, recall—and RPG sourcebooks are way the gently caress over on the "luxury goods" side of things, which may have served to depress sales relative to 5e. And, for the people talking profit, don't forget to factor in the effects of inflation, which Mearls may well not have done. https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/764263075377590272 According to Mearls its units sold, maybe they are counting in starter sets sold as well? The mind just boggles for me though.
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Aug 14, 2016 09:16
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gradenko_2000 posted:This is a good point actually. And counting only the first 4e PHB when it had 5 total plus Insider. Wasn't most of 4e's money from Insider? I remember it being the common retort when Pathfinder fans would trot out book numbers.
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Aug 14, 2016 09:17
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I remember the GenCon 5E launched being able to pick one up for 20 bucks. Maybe vendors selling it for dirt cheap out of the gate has helped on top of the various channels and podcasts talking about it?
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Aug 14, 2016 12:57
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Razorwired posted:Wasn't most of 4e's money from Insider? I remember it being the common retort when Pathfinder fans would trot out book numbers. I think the basis for this as a retort is that people knew at the time how many people were subscribed to Insider, and that at 15 bucks per month per user, Pathfinder would have needed a ludicrous amount of sales to be able to match the kind of cash Insider was bringing in. We didn't actually have straight numbers on Pathfinder to confirm, insofar as the book industry and the publishers never really release those, but the comparison was that it was unrealistic to expect that Paizo could have matched it, even if we weren't sure of the exact amount. Dr. Doji Suave posted:I remember the GenCon 5E launched being able to pick one up for 20 bucks. Maybe vendors selling it for dirt cheap out of the gate has helped on top of the various channels and podcasts talking about it? As much as I don't personally approve of the whole 3-book-model, I do agree that "you need 150 bucks to play D&D 5e!" is a bit of a misleading talking point, as there are usually any number of sales going on where the books can be had for cheaper.
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Aug 14, 2016 13:02
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quote:I think the basis for this as a retort is that people knew at the time how many people were subscribed to Insider, and that at 15 bucks per month per user, Pathfinder would have needed a ludicrous amount of sales to be able to match the kind of cash Insider was bringing in. Yeah, Insider was pulling in a pretty huge amount of money for them. I don't know how big the outlays were in terms of running it/maintenance, but those subscriptions added up fast and they didn't have to push physical products so the overhead should have been on the lower side.
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Aug 14, 2016 13:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:As much as I don't personally approve of the whole 3-book-model, I do agree that "you need 150 bucks to play D&D 5e!" is a bit of a misleading talking point, as there are usually any number of sales going on where the books can be had for cheaper.
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Aug 14, 2016 13:46
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FRINGE posted:Without traveling to a con, where can you get hardcopies that cheap? Amazon has it around 28ish right now. It usually sits between 30 - 25. Still way better than 50 a book.
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Aug 14, 2016 14:04
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I'm pretty sure i saw somewhere (i think it was merls actually) that each edition of D&D always sells better than the one before it.
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Aug 14, 2016 14:42
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Any hobby that's relatively healthy should. You have an ever expanding amount of brand ambassadors with each generation, the market is probably healthier than it's ever been. If they'd released as PDF they might have sold even more.
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Aug 14, 2016 15:02
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think the basis for this as a retort is that people knew at the time how many people were subscribed to Insider, and that at 15 bucks per month per user, Pathfinder would have needed a ludicrous amount of sales to be able to match the kind of cash Insider was bringing in. I also dug through the I2 FLGS quarterly reports which showed D&D outselling Paizo* until they stopped making 4E stuff to actually buy. I had more free time those days. e: *I think I remember Paizo selling a bit more than D&D the quarter before the essentials release, which makes sense Splicer fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 15:45
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I don't like the art they used for the front cover of 5e PHB. It's just some angry giant and a hero that you can't even tell what her class is. She's got a 10 ft spear but is casting a spell. Eldritch knight fighter? Anyway, it's cool art, but not front cover art. You want your PHB front cover to be your thesis statement. That is my criticism of 5e.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:09
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FAT BATMAN posted:You want your PHB front cover to be your thesis statement. So you're saying that the PHB cover for 5e should have been a picture of the 3.5 PHB?
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Aug 14, 2016 18:13
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 If you mean this, actually yeah, this is great. Not to diss too much on the other front covers, because I always love a depiction of cool poo poo happening or a character I could potentially play as looking rad as hell, but yeah I love this.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:30
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Are there ways to increase your spell's DC in 5th? I've looked through the book (wizard class, feats, magic section) and I don't see it.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:31
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What annoys me about 5e is that its explicitly product. "We need a new version of D&D, take some cash, print the core three books, then slash development to nothing in house, freelance 1-2 adventures a year and we'll turn a tidy profit off those nerds. Make the new edition deliberately bland, keep people from making any real choices in character creation, feck balancing just have your GM decide and we'll license out for the rest." There seems to be zero passion about it, there is no mission statement, no desire to try the new, for all of 4e sins there was no lack of ambition there, 5es ambition seems to be to take up shelf space. What pushes me from annoyed to pissed is taking that cynical negligent attitude and then trying to spin it as a great and wise design decision that has resulted in a huge uptick in D&Ds prominence because at the same time people have started to stream RPGs. I no more think Mearls designed for that, than the sun rises because a cockerel crows, but both the cocks are taking credit for it.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:36
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Jack B Nimble posted:Are there ways to increase your spell's DC in 5th? I've looked through the book (wizard class, feats, magic section) and I don't see it. Other than maximizing the appropriate ability score, no. There are no feats that increase spell save DC - there aren't very many feats at all, in fact. This is probably a Good Thing.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:52
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Jack B Nimble posted:Are there ways to increase your spell's DC in 5th? I've looked through the book (wizard class, feats, magic section) and I don't see it. Proficiency bonus (from levels) and whatever your casting stat is (also levels). Feats are either worthless, give a huge bonus to one thing, or are strictly better than just taking +2 to a stat depending on what you're current array is.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:54
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Jack B Nimble posted:Are there ways to increase your spell's DC in 5th? I've looked through the book (wizard class, feats, magic section) and I don't see it. Other than what's been mentioned, certain magic items grant bonuses to DC (e.g. wand of the war mage, robe of the archmagi).
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Aug 14, 2016 19:01
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Here's a noob question. In one of our adventures, we had a guy at zero hit points, and no one did anything to help him. He kept taking rolls for being unconscious and death counters. In the players handbook it says you can stabilize characters who are doing this and they no longer need to keep seeing if they're going to outright die every turn. It says you just have to make a DC10 Wisdom (Medicine) check and the dude goes unconscious can then can be healed as normal. No one in the group bothered doing this, and the dude had two death counters and happened to roll a natural 20 and get back up with 1hp. Could any of us really have stabilized him? Were we all dicks? Also, to make the DC10 Wisdom (Medicine) check - My fighter has -2 Wisdom modifier. Would I be required to roll a 12 or higher to make the check or just a straight up 10? Just kinda confused over something that is probably simple.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:51
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Yes, you can use your action to stand next to a dying character and try to stabilize them with a DC 10 medicine check. Many, many times I've been left on the ground with two death marks and panicking because the rest of my party was still in the middle of a fight. It's a bit of a douche move to leave someone hanging unless you're really really occupied with fighting. That being said, yikes, -2 wis, yeah, you'd have to roll 12 or better. My question is, on death saving throws, can you use inspiration to give yourself advantage? "Ask your DM!" Our DM lets us.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:03
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Stabilizing a character means they no longer have to roll Death Saving Throws. They aren't healed but will naturally heal some token amount in a few hours. You can also just use a healing spell and they will go from 0 to whatever the heal is. For a DC10 Wisdom check, you took a D and add your Wisdom modifier. If you're trained in Medicine, you add whatever that number is instead. If you have a total number of -2, you do essentially have to roll a 12.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:05
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Jack B Nimble posted:Are there ways to increase your spell's DC in 5th? I've looked through the book (wizard class, feats, magic section) and I don't see it. i think [e]  Bane effective +1-4 on your Spell DC. Bestow Curse: can do Disadvantage on all ability and saving checks Bend Luck and Heighten Spell from the sorcs none of them in close reach of wizards Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 20:17
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Hex. Hex only applies to ability checks, not saving throws.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:26
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Thanks. I am surprised no one made any effort to stabilize the guy. We had quite a few experienced players and not everyone was engaged. So... Yeah. Next time I'm disengaging and move because holy poo poo dude was a roll away from losing his character. Or - I guess just move if I'm good health, take the beating, then stabilize the same turn. Philthy fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 20:29
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Philthy posted:Thanks. I am surprised no one made any effort to stabilize the guy. We had quite a few experienced players and not everyone was engaged. So... Yeah. I think you can also just administer a healing potion to get them back up. It shouldn't require a roll at all.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:57
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Jack B Nimble posted:Are there ways to increase your spell's DC in 5th? I've looked through the book (wizard class, feats, magic section) and I don't see it. Increase your casting stat (by leveling up), increase your proficiency bonus (by leveling up), or by getting one of a handful of magic items that increases your stat, your proficiency bonus, or your save DC. That's about it.
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Aug 14, 2016 21:49
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A Healer's Kit also allows you to stabilize a person with no checks as an action, they're charge based so you're going to be out a tiny bit of money every once in a while, but it's 5th edition and there's nothing to spend money on anyway so why not? Fake edit: 5gp for 10 uses.
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Aug 14, 2016 21:49
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The only two magical items I saw in the DMG that increase spell save DC directly are the +X Rod of the Pact Keeper (warlock exclusive) and the Robe of the Archmagi (sorcerer/warlock/wizard only, and the one you find has to match your alignment). The former starts showing up on loot tables at the same time as +X weapons. The latter is legendary and doesn't even show up on loot tables until you're either fighting CR > 10 stuff or have a very generous DM. A couple other magical items increase spell attack bonus but not save DC which makes them substantially less useful due to the rarity of spells higher than 2nd level that call for a spell attack rather than saving throw. Here's a list of PHB class features that increase a caster's odds of their target failing a save: Corona of Light (Light Cleric, level 17) - Enemies within 60' have disadvantage against any spell dealing fire or radiant damage, costs an action to activate Eldritch Strike (Eldritch Knight, level 10) - when you hit an enemy with an attack, they have disadvantage on a save against the next spell the fighter casts until the end of the fighter's next turn. Elder Champion (Oath of the Ancients Paladin, level 20) - 1/long rest capstone, enemies within 10' of the paladin has disadvantage against the paladin's spells Magical Ambush (Arcane Trickster Rogue, level 9) - if the caster is hidden, the target has disadvantage on its save Bend Luck (Wild Magic Sorcerer, level 6) - costs reaction and 2 sorcery points to reduce a saving throw by 1d4 Heighten Spell (Sorcerer metamagic) - costs 3 sorcery points to give one of a spell's targets disadvantage on their save Portent (Divination Wizard, level 2) - 2/long rest (3 at level 14), need to have a low enough roll on-hand Of these, only Corona of Light, Bend Luck, and Portent can help out other spellcasters in the party. Slippery42 fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 22:22
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HidaO-Win posted:I no more think Mearls designed for that, than the sun rises because a cockerel crows, but both the cocks are taking credit for it. I just want to say I appreciate this.
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Aug 14, 2016 22:29
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Thanks for all the replies, though it's mostly confirming that there aren't a lot of options. I'm playing a level 6 Wizard in a Dark Sun game; since I have a 16 int my spell DC is only 14, I'd kill for it to be higher but it's seeming like this is a choice I made in taking feats over stat increases. Bestow Curse is actually on the wizard spell list as well, but I don't want to spend a spell (and a combat round) for the chance of giving my enemy disadvantage on a single save type (and send ends the curse too, and it requires con). I'm so torn because I love Feats, I can't see myself not picking them, but but a DC of 14...eh, it's not too bad if I just try to use something the enemy is weak against, so maybe this isn't an issue.
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Aug 14, 2016 22:31
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