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And then, every once in a very long, long while, your idiot nonsense somehow culminates in you 15-runing a ziggurat conqueror on a tidal wave of explosions, wailing guitar solos, and uniques beaten to death with decks of cards Just Because You Can.
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Jan 24, 2016 14:33
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Superterranean posted:As AD says, the key to having fun at crawl is playing to do awesome things, and winning when it's convenient, rather than treating games where you die even though you did awesome things as "losses". It's a toy box, not a sperglord competitive racing moba job where someone will fire you if you don't get a top 10 score. I can confirm this, my first win after countless failures was with Qazlal and Gong, fighting the whole Dungeon ag once. It still sucks when you die though. And although that cool poo poo you pulled off still is cool, it also sucks even more that the guy didn't make it out. Edit: I can also confirm all of my 15 rune games have been won through idiot nonsense as well. No, wait... pretty much all my games have been idiot nonsense.
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Jan 24, 2016 14:58
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Hey PleasingFungus, I just found what seems like a bug. I autoexplored into a visible alarm trap that was 1 tile away from me. I can't be sure, but I think that an invisible enemy was standing in the tile that autoexplore wanted to move me to. It attacked me on the same turn. I suppose that could also be an intended feature.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:04
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Internet Kraken posted:I'm of the opinion that flawed systems that a lot of players enjoy should be improved rather than removed. Heithinn Grasida posted:I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think "remove it" is always the best solution to bad things, especially things that are controversially, rather than incontrovertibly, bad. Keep in mind that Divinations went through the exact same process I'm describing, complete with people complaining that their playstyle was being destroyed, and that hybrids would be pointless without Divinations. But in fact, something pretty awesome happened: the salvage from the DIvinations wreck got rebuilt into Ashenzari. We lost a terrible magic school and gained possibly the coolest god in the pantheon. The divinations "playstyle" (notable fun things: casting Detect Monsters every 20 steps) got replaced by a far cooler and more fun one. (I dunno if the Charms school would work as a god but I'm all in favor of it.)
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Jan 24, 2016 17:58
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I would be ok with an elemental god who gives you different defensive buffs ala Ozo's and stoneskin as you are attacked(stronger buffs with weaker armor), but I feel like that would be stepping on Qazlal's toes. Although maybe Qazlal could be moved towards that on top of clouds.
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Jan 24, 2016 18:24
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IronicDongz posted:I would be ok with an elemental god who gives you different defensive buffs ala Ozo's and stoneskin as you are attacked(stronger buffs with weaker armor), but I feel like that would be stepping on Qazlal's toes. Although maybe Qazlal could be moved towards that on top of clouds. Considering all the "good" players on Tavern agree that Qazlal sucks (he doesn't in my opinion but whatever), it could be cool to move the boring buff charms over to Qaz's reactive resistances.
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Jan 24, 2016 18:47
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Ferrinus posted:So, for instance, the Regeneration spell could work like the demonspawn Powered By Death mutation where it draws on, and rapidly decays, nearby corpses. Phase Shift can only be cast if you've just applied your Evasion against an attack (but maybe has a shorter than normal cast time). Haste is coupled with Slow - you can only Haste yourself by stealing another creature's speed, and if that creature resists then you get a lesser effect or are completely out of luck. Ozo's Armor and Stoneskin could be mutually-exclusive always-ons, but maybe also compete for your "aura" slot with R/DMsl. Statue Form and Necromutation could have indefinite durations, but your failure chance to turn them on is also your failure chance to turn them off. I like most of these ideas, honestly. This would make Charms a lot cooler. It also gives Regeneration a much more solid Necromancy feel (though ironically probably makes it less useful for people who rely on Necromancy, though they have a lot of tools as it is).
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Jan 24, 2016 18:51
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Regeneration is probably the worst of all the Charms spells in terms of rewarding tedious spammery, and just making it only work in combat wouldn't do a huge amount to fix that. I like the idea of making it a more situational, but more powerful, emergency buff - rather than making it feed off corpses or death or whatever, perhaps it could be a brief but absolutely loving massive spike in regen rate on exchange for a certain amount of rN-ignoring drain. The idea is that you rip out a tiny portion of your own soul and use it to supercharge your natural healing as a desperate panic measure. e: ideally it would be a truly ridiculous amount of regen, but you'd slowly-and-steadily accumulate more drain the longer it remained active, and it would shut off at full health. So using it to top up is not a great idea, but using it to Not Die in a giant ambush clusterfuck is - better drained all to hell than dead. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 19:03
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So I have a treasure trove here that wants a wand of heal wounds with 9 charges. That's pretty much my only source of heal wounds; is it still worth trying it?
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Jan 24, 2016 19:30
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No, not in the slightest.
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Jan 24, 2016 19:32
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I take every death with a heavy heart, as though my own child were slain.
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Jan 24, 2016 20:17
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Mystery Prize posted:So I have a treasure trove here that wants a wand of heal wounds with 9 charges. That's pretty much my only source of heal wounds; is it still worth trying it? Always prepare for extreme disappointment (followed in your case by death from lack of healing).
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Jan 24, 2016 20:34
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Mystery Prize posted:So I have a treasure trove here that wants a wand of heal wounds with 9 charges. That's pretty much my only source of heal wounds; is it still worth trying it? If you would ever as actually miss the item in question, don't do it. I've gotten some pretty rotten troves, I tell you. Piles of stones. Troll hides. 4 animal skins.
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Jan 24, 2016 20:39
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Mystery Prize posted:So I have a treasure trove here that wants a wand of heal wounds with 9 charges. That's pretty much my only source of heal wounds; is it still worth trying it? Dee Ehm posted:If you would ever as actually miss the item in question, don't do it. I've gotten some pretty rotten troves, I tell you. I'm willing to trove missable items (wand of hw or haste, blink scrolls, etc) but having it be your only healing makes that too much. One option is to wait until you have a stockpile of hw potions (use on.y the wand, and recharge it repeatedly, etc.)
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Jan 24, 2016 21:27
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rchandra posted:I'm willing to trove missable items (wand of hw or haste, blink scrolls, etc) but having it be your only healing makes that too much. One option is to wait until you have a stockpile of hw potions (use on.y the wand, and recharge it repeatedly, etc.) I mean 'missable' in the same meaning that you do. If I have enough that having less won't kill me, I'll give it up. And hey, sometimes you get lucky and its a rune trove, or asking for ID scrolls on an Ashenzari worshipper. Then you don't feel as ripped off when you get nothing. Except for those glorious rare times you get a manual trove.
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Jan 24, 2016 21:46
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Old Dun Cow posted:Hey PleasingFungus, I just found what seems like a bug. I autoexplored into a visible alarm trap that was 1 tile away from me. I can't be sure, but I think that an invisible enemy was standing in the tile that autoexplore wanted to move me to. It attacked me on the same turn. I suppose that could also be an intended feature. If there was an invisible enemy in the tile, then how could you explore into it? Surely that'd just end up attacking it instead? I don't think I understand, sorry.
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Jan 25, 2016 03:16
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This was a hell of a ride.code:I really, really underestimated how good the Mana Shield demonspawn mutation is lategame. Coupled with Powered by Death, I was basically an unstoppable regenerating juggernaut if enough chaff monsters were around for me to kill. Highlights of the run: 1.) Xom gifting me a randart triple sword on d:9 with the holy brand  2.) Xom turning me into a spider while I was fighting Ereshkigal 3.) Xom animating Cerebov's sword and killing him with it 4.) Xom teleporting me in Tomb:3 into a half a dozen greater mummies + Khufu. I'm pretty sure I lived through this one on sub 10 hp several times.
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Jan 25, 2016 04:47
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Mystery Prize posted:This was a hell of a ride. I've had that combo of PbD and Mana Shield myself before, its hard to die when you have HP coming out of your ears. I had augmentation instead of robust though, for a slightly less tanky build that made up for it by shredding everything around to death. Mystery Prize posted:3.) Xom animating Cerebov's sword and killing him with it The dream.
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Jan 25, 2016 08:31
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PleasingFungus posted:If there was an invisible enemy in the tile, then how could you explore into it? Surely that'd just end up attacking it instead? In the turn before the image below, I was standing in the tile to the left of the stairs with a visible alarm trap to the northwest. I hit 'O' and stepped directly on to the trap and then was attacked by an unseen horror. My guess was that the unseen horror was in the tile that autoexplore wanted to move me to, so it picked the next available tile even though it had the alarm trap. It could be entirely unrelated to the invisible enemy though. 
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Jan 25, 2016 13:43
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Stoneskin could be removed and I wouldn't shed a single tear, but all the other charms feel fine to me. I guess phase shift is on the edge but at level 5 it's a little more of an issue to cast compared to stone skin. Otherwise charms basically all encourage varied xp investment and interesting alternatives to plain fighters. But I don't really get hit by the crippling problems plaguing the charms school. I usually only start bothering with buff spells once I have decent power and they'll last the entire fight, because I know from experience that trying to use regeneration at level 3 is usually a waste of mana. I also don't constantly refresh most buff spells outside of combat except when going into a vault boss fight or a new pan/zig floor because I don't hate myself. I guess Regeneration is the big offender since I do have some rcfile edits to make sure I can refresh it whenever I need to while autoexploring, but the annoyance cost of having to hit z-v-o every so often is miniscule and far far outweighed by the benefit of reducing time spent doing nothing while waiting for healing and enabling the fun & risky play style of mid combat sublimating. It doesn't really need a "fix".
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Jan 25, 2016 14:24
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Today I learned that an ice demonspawn with Freezing Cloud + Ozocobu's Refrigeration and ridiculously fast MP regeneration can utterly trivialize Elf and Shoals, assuming you have rMisl and/or non-horrendous defences. You don't even need sInv for anything. Just shrug and keep holding the refrigerator door open. I knew Elf was pretty vulnerable to cloud spam, but I didn't realize that nearly all of Shoals' nastiest enemies either had crummy rC or were outright slowed by frost clouds. Krakens! Krakens go into slow motion if you cloud them!  Is Metabolic Englaciation any good? I have this moustache-twirlingly appealing idea about using it, clouds, and Ozzy Osbourne's Portable Murder Fridge to chump the hell out of the Vaults: 5 ambush while hasted and laughing maniacally. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 17:32
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Metabolic Englaciation operates on the formula: IF target has no rC, slow for 3d(pow)/6 - random2(HD) turns. Cold-blooded monsters are slowed for twice as long. Spitballing hypothetically, 100 power against a vault guard (HD of 13) would average out to ~10 turns.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:48
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Old Dun Cow posted:In the turn before the image below, I was standing in the tile to the left of the stairs with a visible alarm trap to the northwest. I hit 'O' and stepped directly on to the trap and then was attacked by an unseen horror. My guess was that the unseen horror was in the tile that autoexplore wanted to move me to, so it picked the next available tile even though it had the alarm trap. It could be entirely unrelated to the invisible enemy though. Note that it says "you hear a blaring wail to the south" It wasn't that YOU stepped on it, it was the Unseen Horror that stepped on it and set it off.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:38
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FireSight posted:Note that it says "you hear a blaring wail to the south" That does seem like the simplest explanation, if you assume that ODC also misremembered which tile the alarm trap was in.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:46
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PleasingFungus posted:That does seem like the simplest explanation, if you assume that ODC also misremembered which tile the alarm trap was in. I also don't see the Mark symbol over his head, so the Noise Trap obviously didn't trigger on him.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:48
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PleasingFungus posted:That does seem like the simplest explanation, if you assume that ODC also misremembered which tile the alarm trap was in. I thought so too (because I'm the world's sloppiest Crawl player), but when I went back into the message history I definitely located the trap on the previous turn and then was marked following the autoexplore. The mark notification was just pushed out of the text box by successive messages. Maybe one of the monsters awakened by my alarm trap immediately walked into another one? I don't think I have seen a mark symbol before. In webtiles it's always shown up in the status box as red text for me. I walked back to the stairs and let it wear off on the floor above.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:10
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I feel a little silly asking for advice on a MiBe but this guy has killed six player ghosts, fell through a shaft from D:10 to D:13, and escaped from the brink of death like three times (and not even while fighting the ghosts or while out of depth), so I don't want to splat him too carelessly:code:I'm thinking Depths? I don't want to do Spider without rPois, or Swamp at all on this character, and I've never even been in Slime, so I don't know if that ring mail would be any use. What would you guys do?
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Jan 25, 2016 22:01
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I'd venture into Swamp:1-3 because poison isn't as ubiquitous and if you gank a Swamp Dragon you could potentially make its skin into armour that provides rPois for your journey into Spider. That glaive you have will slow down a number of potential threats in Swamp, like Hydra, and the reach will help stay on dry ground against things like mounted spriggan.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:06
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Oh yeah, that makes sense. I also have a backup flaming halberd that used to make short work of hydras in Lair, so I'm gonna go try that now. Just gonna have to be super careful about positioning (the countdown until "e: nevermind, dead" starts now)
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Jan 25, 2016 22:10
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Ponderous is really bad too, I'm not sure if it is a full slow (attack speed) but it will at least completely prevent you from running away from just about anything. Use the glaive to kill everything but hydras and swap to your halberd to cut hydra down to size.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:17
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Trip report: Metabolic Englaciation is ridiculously good. It works on everything from slime creatures to Jorgrun, all at once, at LOS range, and it lasts long enough for you to kill whatever poor fool has angered you or calmly walk away from whatever scary thing you have angered. It's absurd in conjunction with Ozo's Refrigeration. Slow everything that isn't cold-resistant -> mash DESTROY EVERYTHING button -> rake in Vehumet MP while your enemies shuffle feebly around and die. Anything with rC is still a credible threat, but Throw Icicle is decent against most enemies, and there's always weapons and wands for the rest.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:23
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Given how Swamp is, ponderous isn't that bad - not much you can run from there even if you have a source of flight given the speed boost a lot of amphibious monsters get. I'd actually rather have the extra AC. The ponderousness should only affect movement speed. Anywhere other than Swamp and it would kill you if Trog wasn't so ridiculously awesome.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:26
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Ponderous is just movement speed, I'm pretty sure, but it really is really bad. Fighting orb spiders loving sucks with that armor. That said, I just cleared Swamp and Spider and I actually got some rWhatever loot and ate a purple that made me smart, so I think the little MiBe that could is finally getting his legs under him.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:29
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Smirr posted:Ponderous is just movement speed, I'm pretty sure, but it really is really bad. Fighting orb spiders loving sucks with that armor. That said, I just cleared Swamp and Spider and I actually got some rWhatever loot and ate a purple that made me smart, so I think the little MiBe that could is finally getting his legs under him. Pro tip for orb spiders: a blowgun and regular poison needles. They're actually vulnerable to it; two hits kills an orb spider 95% of the time, and 3 hits always does.
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Jan 26, 2016 00:06
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Should I drop the 1200 gold on the +12 prune glaive? I'm using a +6 randart long sword with fire, rElec and Fly and a shield, since I haven't found anything better than +3 ring mail with rFire and I'm almost at Orc 4. Would the bonus damage outweigh all the extra hits I'd be taking? PS Polearms is at like 10-ish. e: Found plate mail but it's completely unenchanted. Still better than what I had before! EightFlyingCars fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 02:13
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If you've already got 10 polearms I could argue either way, but this time I'm going to lean towards keeping the sword and shield. with that ringmail, unless you have some pretty high evasion, you'll have a pretty big change to deal with. Centaur Warriors, Yaktaur Captains, Orb Spiders, anything with Iron Shot - I'm guessing you don't have a tool to deal with those, and I'm guessing your character would turn out fairly squishy. Edit: Since you have plate mail, I'll give you an alternate perspective. Ditching the shield not only lets you put out more melee damage, it also lets you make good use of any longbow or triple crossbow that you might stumble across.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:26
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If you're almost at orc:4, you're about to find a bunch of shops that might have even better stuff. Hold off for right now.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:28
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Inquisitive Banana posted:Ponderous is really bad too, I'm not sure if it is a full slow (attack speed) but it will at least completely prevent you from running away from just about anything. Ponderous increases the time taken to move [walk] by 10% of base. (From 10 'aut' to 11; a chei player will go from 20 to 21.) It's very dangerous, but it's possible to overestimate that.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:36
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PleasingFungus posted:Ponderous increases the time taken to move [walk] by 10% of base. (From 10 'aut' to 11; a chei player will go from 20 to 21.) It's very dangerous, but it's possible to overestimate that. Yeah, basically it means that in regards to movement normal speed enemies become ugly things in regards to fleeing from them. Ponderous is least notable on a chei character (because the amount slower you move is basically ignorable) and most notable on a fast moving race like a Centaur or Spriggan (although the fact you're still faster than normal with ponderous on means you don't really care about the drawback as much at all) Caveat: Wear the Black Knight's Horse Barding if you find it as a Centaur and not worshipping a god that prohibits doing so. A +10 enchantment on a barding is absurd, and well worth outspeeding normal enemies slightly less.
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Jan 26, 2016 03:02
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Worship chei, cast statue form, put on the hat of pondering.
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Jan 26, 2016 03:12
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