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Zorak of Michigan posted:Anyone talking about tertiary characters needs to wait until the series is over and then talk to me about Neroon. I still can't believe it took so long for me to discover that the one MiniPax rep from EarthGov was the same actor that played Neroon.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:35
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The roles are distinct, the makeup is totally different, but the diction remains the same.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:58
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ThingOne posted:I'll admit I was wrong about Zack, even if it did take him way too long to figure out that maybe the black armband wearing informant network might not be on the up-and-up. To a degree, a lot of people really really hope for dopes like Zack, who have just been misled but still have good hearts and will know what point is crossing the line and will defect. And not just people who will sunk-cost fallacy their way all the way down to the bottom and steadily learn to internalize the propaganda they're fed.
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Dec 20, 2018 17:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:To a degree, a lot of people really really hope for dopes like Zack, who have just been misled but still have good hearts and will know what point is crossing the line and will defect. Lots of people don’t actually mind, which is a great detail I’m glad the show got right. Like the political officer lady, who seems kind of dumb but is totally fine doing whatever and assumes everyone else is just like her. Her being a ho for commanders hasn’t aged especially well, though.
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Dec 20, 2018 17:54
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Lots of people don’t actually mind, which is a great detail I’m glad the show got right. Like the political officer lady, who seems kind of dumb but is totally fine doing whatever and assumes everyone else is just like her. In a rapidly-turning fascist society? I'd be entirely unsurprised if that was part of her assignment. Stuff like that happens these days, too. Edit: Seduce and control an actor that might otherwise slip through Earthgov's fingers. It's what you do.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:17
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Plotac 75 posted:In a rapidly-turning fascist society? I'd be entirely unsurprised if that was part of her assignment. Stuff like that happens these days, too. Julie Masante is all but outright stated to be a honey trap. Fun fact: the character is named for a fan who did a fundraiser for Michael O'Hare after he got stiffed for a convention fee. I wonder what she thought about her name being given to the leader of Hoes for Hitler.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:03
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Jedit posted:Julie Masante is all but outright stated to be a honey trap. An underrated Ivanova zinger/unsubtle Star Trek burn from that episode that that is probably not aging well is “good luck going where everyone has gone before.” I feel like it was within a few episodes of the “deep-space franchise” burn, too.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:19
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Lots of people don’t actually mind, which is a great detail I’m glad the show got right. Like the political officer lady, who seems kind of dumb but is totally fine doing whatever and assumes everyone else is just like her. Let's just say that there have been multiple examples since then of people using precisely that kind of language in precisely those kinds of contexts, and almost certainly with the same cynicism behind it all. As for the sleeping with the commander thing, some of the framing may have aged poorly, but I otherwise don't agree. First, there's Plotac 75's point about seducing Sheridan as a point of control: she was sent to ensure Clark's control of the station, after all, and Sheridan is still in his "safe on paper" stage but with the station as a whole both far from Clark's direct control and dangerously rife with aliens and alien thinking. More to the point, though, the underlying story of the woman who sleeps her way into a position is actually deep cover for sexually-exploitative men. Take the old canard of the talentless actor who "slept her way" into a movie role. The role wasn't given her by some magical sex osmosis, but by a powerful man (let's say a male executive) in a position of authority whose job is presumably not to ensure that women who sleep with him get cast, but rather that the best actor for the job is cast. So it's the man who didn't do his drat job. Worse, as we're now seeing increasingly come to light, the equation isn't "innocent male executive gets bushwacked by hot woman into casting her" so much as "abusive male executive demands women he finds hot sleep with him before he will cast them, and ruins them if they turn him down." Musante doesn't stand to gain money or power from sleeping with Sheridan. She's either doing what the men who put her in her current position expect of her, in the sense that she was sent to seduce and control Sheridan, or what they expected of her as a quid pro quo for granting her a position of authority. If she's prostituting herself here, her pimp is taking all of the money for himself. I have to say, her frustration the following morning hints that she didn't consider this particular part of her job to be especially distasteful and is annoyed that she wasn't able to "seal the deal."
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Dec 20, 2018 20:31
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There's nothing historically inconsistent about someone like Musante using sex that way. In 2018 it looks both bad and foolish, because the importance of not having inappropriate sexual relations seems so clear. The people who aren't worried about that are worried about women lying about harassment to make men look bad, which would also be a potential negative outcome of Musante's ploy. I think if I re-wrote that episode today, I'd either leave it out, or have Sheridan step to the other side of the room, turn on the computer and ask it to record, and tell her that while regs might ambiguously permit it, he thinks a romantic or sexual involvement between a CO and his political advisor would be contrary to the spirit of the rules and prejudicial to discipline.
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Dec 20, 2018 21:20
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Lots of people don’t actually mind, which is a great detail I’m glad the show got right. Like the political officer lady, who seems kind of dumb but is totally fine doing whatever and assumes everyone else is just like her. She never seemed particularly dumb, just kind of confused/exasperated that Sheridan wasn't on board. "When did all of this happen?" "When we re-wrote the dictionary."
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Dec 20, 2018 23:21
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Vavrek posted:She never seemed particularly dumb, just kind of confused/exasperated that Sheridan wasn't on board. When she's delivering the party line, she's doing the dumb act, but it's clearly an act and she reveals it to be so to both Sheridan and Zack. One of the really interesting things to notice in that episode is that her benevolent "one big happy planet" rhetoric doesn't make its way into the Nightwatch meeting. So there's the big lie she tells to people who aren't "on side" and then the more revealing (if not truthful) line of rhetoric for those already trusted.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:08
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I always took that line to be knowing and sarcastic. Fascists rarely view themselves as fascists. I mean, until a few years ago...
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Dec 21, 2018 02:00
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Mulva posted:Neroon and Ta'Lon were two characters with...maybe a dozen appearances each that fought way above their weight class for character development and importance versus time allowed. Morden has a dozen appearances. Neroon and Ta'lon have a massive five!
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Dec 24, 2018 02:15
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Morden has a dozen appearances. Neroon and Ta'lon have a massive five! That's Meeeester Morrdehhhn to you  .
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Dec 24, 2018 02:24
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Neddy Seagoon posted:That's Meeeester Morrdehhhn to you That's AAAAHHHH, Meeeeester Mordeehhhhhn to you 
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Dec 24, 2018 02:27
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Absurd Alhazred posted:That's AAAAHHHH, Meeeeester Mordeehhhhhn to you I stand corrected  .
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Dec 24, 2018 02:30
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Morden was my avatar for eve when I was a space diplomat and I will never regret that.
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Dec 24, 2018 03:04
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Becoming the Shadows would have been Goonswarm's highest achievement. What could be finer than finding a bunch of up-and-coming alliances, convincing each of them that we thought they were our new favorite, and then letting them all fight it out for our entertainment?
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Dec 24, 2018 03:15
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Zorak of Michigan posted:Becoming the Shadows would have been Goonswarm's highest achievement. What could be finer than finding a bunch of up-and-coming alliances, convincing each of them that we thought they were our new favorite, and then letting them all fight it out for our entertainment? I mean...
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Dec 24, 2018 03:21
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Absurd Alhazred posted:That's AAAAHHHH, Meeeeester Mordeehhhhhn to you 
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Dec 24, 2018 03:34
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Zorak of Michigan posted:Becoming the Shadows would have been Goonswarm's highest achievement. What could be finer than finding a bunch of up-and-coming alliances, convincing each of them that we thought they were our new favorite, and then letting them all fight it out for our entertainment? Only if you do it by going up to each faction and only asking "What do you want?"
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Dec 24, 2018 03:37
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Only if you do it by going up to each faction and only asking "What do you want?" Refer to the rest of Goonswarm as "my associates."
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Dec 24, 2018 03:49
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Do not go to Za'ha'goon
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Dec 24, 2018 03:52
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I always heard what Londo said as "Molden"
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Dec 24, 2018 03:56
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Galvanik posted:Do not go to Za'ha'goon If you go to Za'Ha'Gün, you will be brutally owned.
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Dec 24, 2018 03:59
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I mean, to be fair, there was a galaxy-wide war which destroyed nearly everything and at the end of it the allies that hadn't died off in battle were cleaved of their fat and absorbed into the Swarm... Neddy Seagoon posted:If you go to Za'Ha'Gün, you will be brutally owned. Not to keep this stupid analogy going, but the old homeworld is haunted...
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Dec 24, 2018 04:14
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Galvanik posted:Do not go to S-U Fixed for old school Goonfleet.
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Dec 24, 2018 04:21
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In this analogy kosh is played by xttz
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Dec 27, 2018 11:15
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Been meaning to share this old find in the thread for a while; Need to catch up on Babylon 5 in just a few minutes? How about one week? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybbsLj2gfpY
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Dec 28, 2018 13:15
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Well, it looks like I’m not going to reach my goal of finishing the series by the end of the year. I’m close (halfway through season 5) but motivation has really been flagging. The plots are just not gripping me this season like they did in the past. G’kar and Bester are about the only folks I care about any more.
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Dec 31, 2018 16:56
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wizzardstaff posted:Well, it looks like I’m not going to reach my goal of finishing the series by the end of the year. I’m close (halfway through season 5) but motivation has really been flagging. The plots are just not gripping me this season like they did in the past. G’kar and Bester are about the only folks I care about any more. Oh god. What episode did you just watch? it gets better seriously.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:04
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Yep. Early S5 is a slump after the incredible run of the previous couple seasons but the show returns to form, keep going.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:30
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wizzardstaff posted:Well, it looks like I’m not going to reach my goal of finishing the series by the end of the year. I’m close (halfway through season 5) but motivation has really been flagging. The plots are just not gripping me this season like they did in the past. G’kar and Bester are about the only folks I care about any more. Just hold out until the Telepath arc crawls to its conclusion. The show gets right back on track afterwards, and you shouldn't be far from that moment. You will know exactly when the arc is finished too.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:35
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Doctor Zero posted:Oh god. What episode did you just watch? it gets better seriously. Looks like I stopped halfway through #16, "And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder", where Sheridan and Delenn make an important announcement to the Alliance council. And truth be told I was actually enjoying that one, I just had to stop because I was cooking and haven't found the time to go back. That's been part of my problem actually--not to get too much into my personal life on a TV thread, but I've got a looming life-changing deadline soon and there are other things I need to get done, which means that TV mostly gets watched with divided attention as I am working on other projects. It's not like I hate the show now or anything, I just can't help but notice that I don't feel like watching multiple episodes as I go to bed like I was in seasons 1-2. Earlier in season 5 the telepath arc was good (creepy telepath children notwithstanding) and I liked Byron. "A View From The Gallery" was fun; I always like episodes that give an alternate perspective. (And this was the episode with the goatse porthole, though as someone pointed out several pages ago the timelines might not line up to make that an intentional reference.) And I wouldn't call it my favorite scene of the season, but there was a reunion between G'kar and Lyta that was really interesting to watch in light of everything those characters have been through since the pilot. Presumably the plot is about to heat up with the mind-control parasites which does interest me. I assume that they are related to the Drakhs but it's been over a full season since that particular race was on screen. e: looks like posters above say the telepath arc is where season 5 lags, and that it picks back up afterward. That's been the opposite experience for me, honestly. The telepath stuff may have been a little heavy-handed, but it felt direct and personal. Plus it brought us Bester who is always great to have around. Meanwhile I have not really been enjoying the long, slow "mysterious raiders are everywhere" setup, probably because the audience knows what's going on (more or less) and the characters are taking their sweet time catching up. e2: got off my butt and finished the episode plus the one beyond. Things are definitely heating up. Guess I picked a supremely inopportune time to complain about the show being boring. wizzardstaff fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jan 1, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2018 17:41
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wizzardstaff posted:e2: got off my butt and finished the episode plus the one beyond. Things are definitely heating up. Guess I picked a supremely inopportune time to complain about the show being boring. Oh yes. Yes indeed  .
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Jan 1, 2019 13:24
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It’s done. Finished season 5. Time to go back through the thread and look at spoilers. Maybe I’ll go find the movies. Overall the fifth season did not live up to the previous ones for me, even once the Centauri plot heated up. I think I would have liked to see a lot more of the Drahk/keepers but I guess their whole thing was about staying hidden. And definitely more on David. Is there anywhere I can read about directions the show might have taken if cancellations/cast changes/etc hadn’t interfered? I guess I could look more through the lurker’s guide. I feel like the show got three finales with different themes. Deconstruction of Falling Stars was a wrap on the show’s storyline, making room for new stories in the universe. Objects at Rest was a farewell to the characters on an individual level, letting them each move on. I really appreciated the shot of all the new characters through the window of the control room, like the early credits used to have. And Sleeping in Light was a farewell to the show as a concept, like someone turning out the lights in an empty building (literally) and then looking to the camera to say, “what, you’re still here?” The comparison shots of the actors at the start and end of the run was very moving, as was the big photo finish with the crew. Even if the fifth season didn’t grab me like the rest did, I’m still left with a sense of gratitude for having watched it all. Clearly a labor of love from start to finish, and really ahead of its time in terms of prestige television.
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Jan 6, 2019 05:06
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wizzardstaff posted:It’s done. Finished season 5. Time to go back through the thread and look at spoilers. Maybe I’ll go find the movies. The original B5 outline is around online these days and, honestly, the series we got is better than the original outline. However, when you know that outline, you can definitely see it in the show. Season 1 was very much on track with it, but things changed when O'Hare left and JMS basically rewrote the whole series. Another significant change was how Season 4 was compressed and sped up as they didn't know they would be getting Season 5. The Shadow War would've taken a bit longer instead of being wrapped up in about six episodes and Season 4 would've ended on the episode where Sheridan is being interrogated, leaving Season 5 to have the end of the Civil War plot and, presumably, some Season 5 stuff as a denouement. Interesting, the point you say about turning the lights out -- JMS is the guy who turned the lights off the station in Sleeping in Light. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Jan 6, 2019 |
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Jan 6, 2019 05:18
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Sleeping in Light holds up for me as the best series finale ever made. Peter David wrote an authorized trilogy about the the Drakh on Centauri Prime that closes out those events. I don't love those books, but Garibaldi gets to say, "What's up, Drakh?" and that is all the justification they require.
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Jan 6, 2019 05:20
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Definitely watch In the Beginning. The other movies are unnecessary but you'll end up watching them eventually. In the Beginning is legit good and shouldn't be skipped.
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Jan 6, 2019 06:47
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Grand Fromage posted:Definitely watch In the Beginning. The other movies are unnecessary but you'll end up watching them eventually. In the Beginning is legit good and shouldn't be skipped. I always enjoyed Thirdspace. It's a huge goofy SF adventure, and it provides just the right amount of glimpse beyond the veil to be properly Lovecraftian. There's a number of ancillary novels worth reading. The Psi-Corps trilogy, The Shadow Within and To Dream In The City of Sorrows should be considered essential, the Centauri and Technomage trilogies less so but still worth the time. Most of the other "numbered" novels are crap, though, except possibly Clark's Law.
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Jan 6, 2019 12:14
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